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So things like "gender norms" and stuff like that are just what lefty kids and celebs say on Facebook articles that I swiftly ignore.
I can only speak for myself, but for me fiction is not reality. Men are not like James Bond and women aren't like their representations in stories. It's fantasy. Fun... Not to be taken too seriously.
Obviously there are a lot of films that are more political and try to portray realistic representations of people. This place tends more towards genre fiction.
Even in this OWC there were a lot of interesting female roles, don't you think?
I, like some others here, have been getting completely ripped apart! When I first read the comments I feel like throwing my computer out the window. But then I don't. Probably a good thing After a few minutes, I calm down and think rationally. So, my computer has remained intact thus far. And that's why I never act on impulse!
I can see where my story is lacking though, so the comments have been useful. I still have a lot of fun with these challenges and am looking forward to the next one already.
It's only grueling because I'm super impatient. I actually haven't read any of my feedback on purpose. (Ok, I glanced )
But that actually isn't the issue here. I am more and more curious about what it is we as writers put out into the world. I assumed we were all one community of artists that had a desire to give the world something from our own mind. Something beautiful and strange. A commentary on the world we live in.
So now I'm wondering...
What bearings do the character's we create have on people's view of gender norms? Does it really matter?
Like when I commented on another writer's work about his female character being presented a little off...his response was ' I don't think Simplyscripts is the place to start an argument or point out someone's ignorance on specific gender related things.'
But, if not here...then where? I'm sure a lot of you guys meant no offense in a lot of things presented in OWC...but it was still a little startling to see that 'that' is how you want female character's presented to the world. Pisser's or not. It just shocked me.
Well, you can't judge everyone's "attitude" by a few scripts. Some writers really don't get it and others struggle with this or that.
I agree that the vast majority of lesbian themed scripts were poorly done, and when I originally joked about lesbian scripts, I was TOTALLY JOKING!
The nice thing, to me, about these OWC's is that peeps feel more free to share their true feelings in terms of a review, where otherwise, you'll see alot of BS fluff about something from someone they know.
You know you can't please everyone, nor would you really want to. If someone says up front, "I hate horror", is that really someone you want praising your script?
You have to take reviews with a whole shaker full of salt. Many peeps have no clue what they're saying. Many don't know what's good, bad, or whatever.
You should read your feedback, though. No reason not to.
So things like "gender norms" and stuff like that are just what lefty kids and celebs say on Facebook articles that I swiftly ignore.
I can only speak for myself, but for me fiction is not reality. Men are not like James Bond and women aren't like their representations in stories. It's fantasy. Fun... Not to be taken too seriously.
Obviously there are a lot of films that are more political and try to portray realistic representations of people. This place tends more towards genre fiction.
Even in this OWC there were a lot of interesting female roles, don't you think?
By interesting, I assume you mean one-dimensional? Almost, every story involved vengeful, catty, sexualized, fashion-obsessed psychos. And when that wasn't happening it was MOTHERHOOD at the core.
And 'not to be taken seriously' is exactly my point. This isn't about PC characters it's about at least attempting to write multi-dimensional ones. I'm all about the 'fantasy' who isn't? But when the fantasy is so 'one-note' like it is here...it kinda makes you wonder. Why? Why no effort whatsoever?
You guys make these ridiculous female characters and then turn on women when we get annoyed by it (not angry) annoyed and for good reason.
'Women aren't funny'
'This isn't the place for 'realistic'...'
And then want us to coo and coddle you all through your masterful projects with interesting male-centric characters?
Look, my script is far from perfect, but I believe I at least made an effort to write a character that anyone would want to act and see.
Maybe, the other ladies feel it more appropriate to 'bore' all these things in silence or whatever, but not me.
Well, you can't judge everyone's "attitude" by a few scripts. Some writers really don't get it and others struggle with this or that.
I agree that the vast majority of lesbian themed scripts were poorly done, and when I originally joked about lesbian scripts, I was TOTALLY JOKING!
The nice thing, to me, about these OWC's is that peeps feel more free to share their true feelings in terms of a review, where otherwise, you'll see alot of BS fluff about something from someone they know.
You know you can't please everyone, nor would you really want to. If someone says up front, "I hate horror", is that really someone you want praising your script?
You have to take reviews with a whole shaker full of salt. Many peeps have no clue what they're saying. Many don't know what's good, bad, or whatever.
You should read your feedback, though. No reason not to.
I appreciate all feedback! Man/Woman/Straight/LGBT/black/white/so on and so forth. What makes me scratch my head is the complete indifference to wanting to remedy any of these stereotypes whatsoever. That I don't get.
Well, again, "these stereotypes" is assuming that we all believe they're stereotypes, which is not really the case.
I think the 1 big problem with this challenge was to exclude all opposite sex characters. IMO, it should have been your main character had to be the opposite sex.
I really don't understand why there were so many lesbo driven stories. I mean seriously, no reason whatsoever that I can see why peeps think there has to be love interests and sex in their shorts. It made for unrealistic situations and even cringe worthy, uncomfortable situations.
As Rick said, correctly, look at most movies - the characters, whether make or female, are rarely realistic portrayals of real men and women, which to me, is always a problem.
Well, again, "these stereotypes" is assuming that we all believe they're stereotypes, which is not really the case.
I think the 1 big problem with this challenge was to exclude all opposite sex characters. IMO, it should have been your main character had to be the opposite sex.
I really don't understand why there were so many lesbo driven stories. I mean seriously, no reason whatsoever that I can see why peeps think there has to be love interests and sex in their shorts. It made for unrealistic situations and even cringe worthy, uncomfortable situations.
As Rick said, correctly, look at most movies - the characters, whether male or female, are rarely realistic portrayals of real men and women, which to me, is always a problem.
Right, but as I was pursuing the female written script comments and I noticed the word 'Stereotype' thrown around a lot.
And by 'stereotype' you mean what, exactly?
And, there's fictional character and then they're caricatures.
The lesbian thing I just gave up on bc I already knew that 'lesbian' meant porn 'lesbian' and not real lesbian.
I don't get this gender discussion at all. Have you people never written the opposite sex before? Have you been told your opposite gender characters are cliche and unrealistic? We're all human beings. Write about humans...
I don't get this gender discussion at all. Have you people never written the opposite sex before? Have you been told your opposite gender characters are cliche and unrealistic? We're all human beings. Write about humans...
My take.
Agreed...completely.
I think I can write very god females, but there are times when I purposely make them...uh...a little more like me, I guess. You get me? LOL!
By interesting, I assume you mean one-dimensional? Almost, every story involved vengeful, catty, sexualized, fashion-obsessed psychos. And when that wasn't happening it was MOTHERHOOD at the core.
And 'not to be taken seriously' is exactly my point. This isn't about PC characters it's about at least attempting to write multi-dimensional ones. I'm all about the 'fantasy' who isn't? But when the fantasy is so 'one-note' like it is here...it kinda makes you wonder. Why? Why no effort whatsoever?
You guys make these ridiculous female characters and then turn on women when we get annoyed by it (not angry) annoyed and for good reason.
'Women aren't funny'
'This isn't the place for 'realistic'...'
And then want us to coo and coddle you all through your masterful projects with interesting male-centric characters?
Look, my script is far from perfect, but I believe I at least made an effort to write a character that anyone would want to act and see.
Maybe, the other ladies feel it more appropriate to 'bore' all these things in silence or whatever, but not me.
I gave this a lot of consideration. Sorry, I don't understand the angst.
I assume that males have more of a struggle writing females (and vice versa) because it is more difficult to write what you are not or what you don't know. For example, I am 60. I have difficulty writing 20 year olds. I am atheist. I have difficulty writing people of faith, etc.
There are no nefarious agendas here. It's the old adage - it's easier to write what you know. If a writer failed to write a complex character when one was needed it probably has more to do with their ability to write complex characters then it does with their view females - and vice versa.
I gave this a lot of consideration. Sorry, I don't understand the angst.
I assume that males have more of a struggle writing females (and vice versa) because it is more difficult to write what you are not or what you don't know. For example, I am 60. I have difficulty writing 20 year olds. I am atheist. I have difficulty writing people of faith, etc.
There are no nefarious agendas here. It's the old adage - it's easier to write what you know. If a writer failed to write a complex character when one was needed it probably has more to do with their ability to write complex characters then it does with their view females - and vice versa.
There's no angst.
I'm not a 60-year-old white man, but I know how to write them because I do my research. I talk to all kinds of people on the regular, which is part of your job as a writer, IMO. So just saying 'oh, I don't get women or young people because I'm not those things' is no excuse.
Do we really want our daughter's and wives and girlfriends reading or seeing these characters for real?
I'm just saying think about what you put out there in the world.
We all come in contact with the opposite sex and hopefully have convos with them and hear how they talk and GASP ask their opinions abut the world. So what's the issue here?
I gave this a lot of consideration. Sorry, I don't understand the angst.
I assume that males have more of a struggle writing females (and vice versa) because it is more difficult to write what you are not or what you don't know. For example, I am 60. I have difficulty writing 20 year olds. I am atheist. I have difficulty writing people of faith, etc.
There are no nefarious agendas here. It's the old adage - it's easier to write what you know. If a writer failed to write a complex character when one was needed it probably has more to do with their ability to write complex characters then it does with their view females - and vice versa.
I agree. I used to be in the horse industry. Every time I see a movie where someone who's obvious to me that they are far from an expert rider wins competitions, I cringe. My husband knows a lot a bout car racing, flying and history, everytime he sees a movie where those subjects are a main part of the movie, he cringes. IMHO, one reason Contact was such a great movie and felt like it could maybe happen was because Carl Sagan helped write it. It felt real. I guess instead of talking about gender differences, I guess it boils down to, write what you know. If you want to write about lesbians, but only know the ones in porn made for males, you're probably going to fail. That is not a gender issue, but rather a lack of knowledge of such characters.