Is it possible there's a whole solution to the "situation" from yesterday? I think there is. See, it's mostly known amongst people who've spent a bit of time here that Jeff has a review style of his own, like everyone here has their own writing and reviewing style. Sometimes, it conflicts with what you're looking for, as a writer and that can cause friction like this.

Jeff takes a very hard stance in his reviews: if something's bad, he's going to let you know about it. Now, I'm putting words in his mouth, but this is based off of criticism I've received from him in the past, but it basically boils down to him not offering solutions to more detailed problems if the more basic flaws haven't been ironed out. If they have, you'll probably get some more detailed information about how to fix the more advanced stuff.

In a way, my reviewing style is very similar to that. 99 times out of 100, I don't even comment on story fixes. Instead, mine is a by-the-numbers, "Here's a bulleted list of all the spelling and grammatical errors I've found" and typically, I'll make a few comments on potential dialogue fixes because those are the things I hone my craft on: being error-free (if possible) and dialogue. If there aren't many spelling or grammatical things, I'll go more in-depth because you've moved past the "having a clean-looking script" phase.

We all play to our strengths and weaknesses and our review styles show that. Now, Jeff's not a bad guy when it comes to how he reviews, but there is a problem in that he reviews all script pretty much the same. Now, even though the OWC is anonymous, you can (almost) always tell the difference between a veteran of SS and a newcomer and I think reviews should reflect that distinction, but that's just me.

Point is, I think a way to alleviate this is simple: if you get a review from somebody that you don't find helpful, search out other reviews they've given and see if they're done in a similar style. If they are, you've got a pattern and you can decide for yourself, "Why waste my time or their time by having them read and critique something that I'm not going to get any value from, anyway?" If you find somebody like that, why not send a polite PM to them saying, "Thank you for your reviews and the effort you've given. I've entered [enter script name] in the OWC and I'd appreciate if you'd skip over it and save us both some hassle."

Obviously, this isn't a cure-all, but I think, much in the same way, the addition of "Writer not looking for feedback" was a good addition, something like this could be done in the same vein, to the same effect.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Just been reading through all the scripts comments and one thing I've noticed, there are a lot of comments about titles not being centered, including mine.

I'm confused about this. I use Final Draft, it formats everything for me. On my PC the FDX file and the PDF have it perfectly centered but when I click the link in Simply Scripts - the title is slightly off-center. Is this a hosting issue? Browser? The Apocalypse?

Quoted from Mr. Blonde ... Point is, I think a way to alleviate this is simple: if you get a review from somebody that you don't find helpful, ... If you find somebody like that, why not send a polite PM to them saying, "Thank you for your reviews and the effort you've given. I've entered [enter script name] in the OWC and I'd appreciate if you'd skip over it and save us both some hassle." Obviously, this isn't a cure-all, but I think, much in the same way, the addition of "Writer not looking for feedback" was a good addition, something like this could be done in the same vein, to the same effect...

Sounds good in theory and I get where you're coming from Sean. Problem is if you're a regular you will have just revealed you are the writer of a particular script in an anon challenge.

And if you're a complete newb entering your first OWC you don't know anyone, and you don't know their reviewing style.

P.S. Mark, I noticed those comments re format too. No idea. Bit weird.

Quoted from MarkRenshaw I'm confused about this. I use Final Draft, it formats everything for me. On my PC the FDX file and the PDF have it perfectly centered but when I click the link in Simply Scripts - the title is slightly off-center. Is this a hosting issue? Browser? The Apocalypse?

I think mine's off too, thought it was Celtx that I'm using, due to it's apparent amateur formatting issues, maybe not.

Quoted Text Jeff takes a very hard stance in his reviews: if something's bad, he's going to let you know about it.

Hey Mr. Blonde (or Sean, if that is your real name).

Without firing it all back up again, it wasn't so much the harsh reviewing, no worries there whatsoever, it was more the expletives and almost deliberate asides. Dustin, for example, was just as harsh and honest, but he avoided adding the niggles and jabs that went with it.

Regardless, as I said last night I read some of Jeff's reviews after yesterday's exchange, and fair play to the lad he'd gone and reigned it in a bit. Hopefully no harm done, a better outcome for all, and on we go.

Cam

Damn, is this stuff still going on?

Here's my advice...

You get feedback that you don't appreciate, don't like, or don't agree with?  Ignore it and move on.  Wait till after the challenge and clarify what peeps missed in your script, and/or ask direct questions to the writers of reviews you had  trouble with.

We're all in the same boat here, really.  I get tons and tons of negative feedback and sometimes, it's totally off base, IMO, but it is what it is.  People miss things. People skim and therefor miss important things and details.  Others see things no one else sees - like typos, mistakes, awkward writing, etc.  There are peeps on SS whose opinions and feedback I really value...but there's also peeps on here that I get a laugh out of their commentary.

We all need to decide who we want to to listen to and who we don't feel brings value to the table.  It's up to each and every individual and remember, this shit is all free, so embrace what you get and don't let negative feedback get you down.

Been away and am leaving again tomorrow (Tahoe so did not enter this OWC. Over coffee this morning I thought I would check out the thread to see what's going on.

Hmm.

My two cents:

Reviewers should strive to provide constructive criticism. It is not hard to do and if you are being mean you ought to question your motives.

Writers should not demand constructive criticism. The reviews are free and independent. Take what you agree with and ignore - or debate - what you disagree with.

Ideally, whether constructive or not, comments should be limited to the writing. IMO - one can write. there are five typos, this is a real problem. But no one should write - there are five typos - obviously the writer did not put in any effort at all. Because it could be very well be that the writer busted their ass and there are still typos and now the reviewer is moving from the writing itself to commenting on something that is unknowable about the writer.  

I do think the suggestion about PM ing specific members not to post comments would be unwieldy.  Perhaps if a writer is sensitive to comments then they can click a box akin to something like "Please no comments to be posted." The script can still be rated by other contestants - just not commented on. If one desires comments - they should be willing to accept the good, the bad and the ugly.  

SS and I are still 'newlyweds' and it's obvious that I'm a newbie to all this. My first entry was for the 'Trapped in a Taxi' OWC where I was dragged across coals and broken glass. I've not missed a OWC since and have had numerous ultra critical reviews by numerous SS members (Jeff being outstanding in the field). Do you know what happened? I'm a better writer because of it. Jeff gave me a positive review this challenge!

It's been a tough go and I'll admit that I could've throttled him a couple times but I'm all the better for it.

Yeah, I miss Dustin too. As much as I miss Janet. Both of them were great SS'ers.

I liked this challenge a lot because of the scripts' variety. It doesn't get boring to read the scripts. still reading them, good I was able to read 15 over the weekend as I left shortly after that. But I still manage two or more a day

I guess I'm more or less a reg now, but when I first joined I was amazed to find a community so open to new writers and supportive and helpful of them... and all for free.

Whilst we've lost a few members over the time I have been here (not just Dustin and Janet), we've got new writers and that attitude still prevails... and I am still learning from other members with every script I post and OWC I enter.

Jeff is Jeff, he sure know's his formatting and grammar and he knows that he rubs many (but not all) people up the wrong way... but leopards and spots!

But as Jeff himself has already commented, if you don't like the style of his, or anyone else's feedback then skip past it... that's what I do.  

I'd just encourage everyone to keep helping the each other, provide good feedback and help Don and the mods out wherever possible... and if you see a newbie get roasted by Jeff... or anyone else... then chime in with a good natured 'it's just (insert name here), you'll get used to them' and offer some supportive words.

Just my view of course...

I was gonna say something about my title not being centered too.  I use Celts, so I am puzzled too.

Look, as for criticism, get used to it.  If you post, people will give their honest opinion.  I don't think anyone, Jeff included, opens up a story thinking "I am gonna be the biggest dick that I can be and make them feel like they had a hot poker shoved up the ass (sorry, American Horror flashback), but sometimes a story just hits you wrong.

I found 2 stories to be really boring.  That's my opinion.  It doesn't make it correct.  It just means that some, if they are wired like me, might find it boring and put it down and never pick it back up.

For me, I tend to overlook formatting errors because I am still terrible at that myself and don't feel comfortable calling out someone else, unless it is so noticeable that I can't ignore it.

When I read a story I look for plot and characters.  I look to see if the world you've created makes sense.  I look to see how badly the suspension of disbelief gets rocked.  And, most of all, I look to see if the ending and the twist don't contradict the world you've created.  Most horror stories fail in that regard, IMO.

We all have something special we bring to the table.  When Jeff or anyone leaves a negative response, he's giving his opinion.  As the writer, it is up to you to see if his reasons are just or new.  If he's" out on page 2" and the reason he gives you is spot on, then it is up to us to swallow our pride and accept it.  Sure it sucks whenever anyone abrasive is correct, especially when it is at our expense, but, isn't it better that you get that Info, even if it's in the form of a bee sting?

Jeff hated my story, but you can bet that I am gonna pick his brain when this is done.  I will pick a lot of my friends- brains when the event ends.  I think I had a pretty unique story and want to know if it is something I should pursue when this is over.

End rant 2.0
Dan

Eh, I wrote up a great post that would have solved everyone's issues here and it somehow got deleted before posting. I'm too lazy to re-write it. Think I'll go watch TV instead.

Gary

I never repost if something gets deleted - it's bad luck to fight the universe if it rejects your post!

Someone please tell me why Rick (Fyvie) is now listed as a guest user?

Rick hasn't thrown the towel in, surely not?

....

Btw, love that comment, Kham.  

Quoted from LC Someone please tell me why Rick (Fyvie) is now listed as a guest user? Rick hasn't thrown the towel in, surely not?

He deleted his account. Not sure why it says his name still.

OK, well that's not good. Rick's such a valuable contributor to SS and a one of a kind writer and astute reviewer. If anyone knows his email, and I'm sure some do, PM me please.