"The truth is, you’re so married to your script that it’s IMPOSSIBLE to see the flaws."

He's got a good point there, actually.

Quoted from TonyDionisio "The truth is, you’re so married to your script that it’s IMPOSSIBLE to see the flaws." He's got a good point there, actually.

That's like with real marriage / relationships. If you look at the script again a few weeks later you'll find all sorts of flaws in it...

Still haven't got my email...

Tony, Equinox -

True dat.  Admittedly, any and all writers need a few different sets of eyes on one's scripts.  The term is "snow-blind".  And it happens to all of us.

Thing is, that's one of the reasons SS is such a great community.  It's a way to get that feedback (good, bad, high quality or not) for FREE.  And - having done more than one route - I can assure you that "paid coverage" isn't inherently better.  It just.. all depends on making connections with people who know the craft and can provide thoughtful, organic notes that are in line with what you're looking to accomplish.  Sometimes, that requires $$.  Very often, it doesn't.  You just have to cultivate who you ask.

And one of the worst things about being in the writing biz are the number of people looking to shove a hand down a broke writer's pocket, using their dreams as leverage.    Sorry, but in this economy, that doesn't get anyone that far.  And writers who just throw $$ at various experts end up broke, used, and.. no further along than they started.  Just unable to pay the bills as well.

I don't know. This guy may be good.  But I'm certainly not going to pay to find out.  I already have top-notch people that I work with... and we help each other.  For free.  (And we don't approach total strangers and ask for money, either.)  Bad tactic.  Real bad tactic.

Quoted from Reef Dreamer Still haven't got my email...

Aw, Bill - you're missing out!  

Quoted from Reef Dreamer Still haven't got my email...

Remember - he's only sending them to writers who need help. I got two

I feel left out too.  Hey, I'm back, at least for the second.

I didn't get the spam, probably a good thing...

I plan on making a comeback.  I hurt my neck doing the last feature and have needed all this time for the pain to subside...

Yeah, it sucks...  Who knew writing could be so painful???

Dan

Quoted from wonkavite Tony, Equinox - True dat.  Admittedly, any and all writers need a few different sets of eyes on one's scripts.  The term is "snow-blind".  And it happens to all of us. Thing is, that's one of the reasons SS is such a great community.  It's a way to get that feedback (good, bad, high quality or not) for FREE.  And - having done more than one route - I can assure you that "paid coverage" isn't inherently better.  It just.. all depends on making connections with people who know the craft and can provide thoughtful, organic notes that are in line with what you're looking to accomplish.  Sometimes, that requires $$.  Very often, it doesn't.  You just have to cultivate who you ask. And one of the worst things about being in the writing biz are the number of people looking to shove a hand down a broke writer's pocket, using their dreams as leverage.    Sorry, but in this economy, that doesn't get anyone that far.  And writers who just throw $$ at various experts end up broke, used, and.. no further along than they started.  Just unable to pay the bills as well. I don't know. This guy may be good.  But I'm certainly not going to pay to find out.  I already have top-notch people that I work with... and we help each other.  For free.  (And we don't approach total strangers and ask for money, either.)  Bad tactic.  Real bad tactic.

Hey wonkavite,

I'm glad you have people you can ask, I guess that's really an asset and makes life as a writer much easier. I don't have anybody I could ask, so my choice is competitions with notes included in the submission fee. I love SS for what it is, but I rarely get detailed notes here on anything I post. Most feedback is like 'Typo on page 1, I'm out', or 'I liked it, good job' which isn't all that helpful if you're struggling with a script. You can't demand more for free, so this isn't meant as a complaint, but I doubt SS can replace someone who analyses your script and points out strengths/weaknesses.

Quoted from Equinox Hey wonkavite, I'm glad you have people you can ask, I guess that's really an asset and makes life as a writer much easier. I don't have anybody I could ask, so my choice is competitions with notes included in the submission fee. I love SS for what it is, but I rarely get detailed notes here on anything I post. Most feedback is like 'Typo on page 1, I'm out', or 'I liked it, good job' which isn't all that helpful if you're struggling with a script. You can't demand more for free, so this isn't meant as a complaint, but I doubt SS can replace someone who analyses your script and points out strengths/weaknesses.

Thorsten: - an interesting take.

I kind of have done it all. I have got comments from competitions, paid for reviews, posted scripts here - etc. etc.

I generally was not happy with reviews I paid for with one recent exception where I thought the notes were relatively insightful.

Same is true for contests - I found them pretty much cut and paste.

I thought the Blacklist reviews were an absolute train wreck.

Which leaves us with SS. I am in general agreement with you with a couple of caveats.

Shorts get relatively solid and comprehensive comments - features do not. That is the nature of the beast I suppose because the site is filled with active writers and a review of a feature takes up valuable time.

SS is absolutely the best when it comes to short - technical issues. e.g., what do you think about this log line. How do I format this action sequence, etc. It has been an invaluable resource. So - I look at SS more as an excellent writing site rather than a review site.

Anyway - my two cents

Fully agree, eldave. And I like SS a lot. Learned quite much here already, so it's been an invaluable resource for me as well.

My reply was aimed at pointing out not everybody has writing buddies who are willing to read and write notes on your scripts, so competitions / paid reviews have a right to exist as it's the only source of feedback for the majority of writers.

Yup

Quoted from Equinox My reply was aimed at pointing out not everybody has writing buddies who are willing to read and write notes on your scripts, so competitions / paid reviews have a right to exist as it's the only source of feedback for the majority of writers.

Competitions and paid reviews are not the same thing. Comps don't give you proper reviews, they can't afford to.

Mostly they just want your cash and aren't looking to make a script. Who gives a flying eff what some dickhead who's never going to make your script thinks? OK, I think I need to rephrase that. Who cares what some $5 per hour punk thinks about our script? That's basically what the schmucks are paid lower down the competition reading scale. Some spotty little knobhead who wouldn't know a great story if it bit his arse, telling you what's wrong with your story? Some spotty little knobhead that can barely spell?

At least when you pay for a report you generally get what you pay for. Comps, some $5 per hour knobhead. Proper script reports can come in at a few hundred and event hey should only be undertaken once the script is optioned and you're talking rewrites.

Beforehand and there's no point. There's no point because the reviewer is not going to make your script and is not affiliated with any producer in any way that wants to make it. So, you end up with a worthless opinion, no better than your original one.

Quoted from Equinox Hey wonkavite, I'm glad you have people you can ask, I guess that's really an asset and makes life as a writer much easier. I don't have anybody I could ask, so my choice is competitions with notes included in the submission fee. I love SS for what it is, but I rarely get detailed notes here on anything I post. Most feedback is like 'Typo on page 1, I'm out', or 'I liked it, good job' which isn't all that helpful if you're struggling with a script. You can't demand more for free, so this isn't meant as a complaint, but I doubt SS can replace someone who analyses your script and points out strengths/weaknesses.

Hey Thorsten -

FWIW... the creation of my 'inner circle' was an organic experience, directly the result of meeting up with like minds on SS, realizing who I could trust for honest criticism - and whose tastes I was most in sync.  Granted, that always takes time to develop.  And I'm not against some notes.  Danny Manus, for instance, is AWESOME.  And Bluecat isn't bad (as long as you don't get a dud reader.)  So, yes, there's a time and a place for professional coverage - but there are certainly other "popular" coverage services (which I won't publicly name) that I don't think are worth a dime.  Again - that's a case of hard core experience.  Learn what works and doesn't work for you... but don't go broke when experimenting that way.  

Oh - and in tandem with Dustin's point...

While a great coverage guy (or inner circle person) can really do wonders for a script, I personally believe that - other than THAT, and letting the damned script be seen by fresh, competent eyes - there's actually a point at which writing and re-writing a script to the point that you vomit is a mistake.  Polish?  Yes.  Print out and red-line the heck of it? Yup, that too.  

But as Dustin said - once you get to the point of nitpicking, it's actually a waste of time to continue to constantly refine.  Because WHOEVER does pick up your script will have their own particular tastes and preferences.  Therefore, there's no point in catering to every single critique written by "Mr. Coverage Guy of the Week" (unless you already know and highly respect his opinion.) Because tastes are often VERY contradictory.  And if you take everything to heart, it's just going to lead your concept astray - and probably turn it into a Frankenstein monster, as well.

That said, pay major attention to the producer and director who likes your script well enough to commit.

Quoted from CJ Walley I personally believe, simply writing and re-writing based on feedback is most likely going to send a writer in circles or backward.

I think this is bad advice. Of course, you must cherry pick what feedback is worthy.

Quoted from CJ Walley You can visit your library and borrow every book they have (and can get in) on the topic. You can read the blogs and podcasts by working writers online for free. You don't have to take any of it as gospel, but it will help you frame all the points of contention out there, form your own judgements, and allow you to analyse your own work more objectively. But what's most important of all, what's absolutely critical and will make the most important difference in your own development, is understanding more about yourself as a writer and the fundamental reasons why you write.

That's good advice. Feedback can help you identify your strengths and weaknesses and allow you to focus on those areas.