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  Author    Constructive criticism  (currently 54938 views)
DanC
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 3:32pm Report to Moderator
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Killing villains since 1980!

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Quoted from Max
I don't know who to listen to, lol.

I read this back and forth and I'm like... who is right? I'm a fence sitter so you don't see me backing either guy/girl.


Max,
     My advice is to listen to all of it.  What you APPLY is up to you.  You know the scope of your script.  However, if 5 people tell you something is bad and 1 or 2, or none say it's good or no comment on it at all, then I'd at least look at it.

Jeff and Dustin may or may not have credits, but, that doesn't really matter.  A sound comment can come from anyone.  Remember when I told you and Steve that no matter how new we are to writing or screenwriting, we all have something to contribute?

That's true.  It doesn't matter what Jeff, Pia, Libby etc have sold.  What matters is how sound the advice is.  How good is the advice?  How does it work with your scope?  

For ex, Libby wanted me to alter the end to Evil Genesis, but, that went against how I had set up the entire story.  But, that doesn't discount all the other advice for the rest of the script.  

Your story is your story.  You know that story inside and out.  I'm good at picking out plot holes and things that common sense characters wouldn't do.  I need guys like Jeff, Dustin, Libby, Pia etc to help me get my story up to snuff.  Jeff might hate asides.  And that's his right.  

Don't look at writing as 100% right or wrong.  Except for formatting, everything else is open.  Personally, I think an aside here and there is fine.  I think if every other line has an aside, well, that's bad.  If there are too many unfilmables or too many things that a director would be hard to get or find, that's bad too.

I have had the (I guess) unique history of having some prose writing (short stories, novels etc) and screenplays, and I have some acting knowledge (from classes in grad school) and some filmmaking studies (also from grad school) so, I've been on every side possible for the film world.

If you write "A huge white guy with purple hair in a mohawk, green eyes, pale as snow, with expensive sun glasses, AC/DC shirt, spiky wrist band, new apple smart watch, etc, no one will read that much.  It's too hard to find someone to match that description.

Same with your places.  If you write the apartment has to have 5 rooms, bathroom, kitchen, bedroom, living room, and laundry room.  In each room is...
That too is too hard for someone to find.  Unless you are writing for a series or a big movie, people have to find places that already exist.  Very few have the cash to create a set.  

So, when Jeff or Dustin or others talk about overwriting something, I'd listen.  

Ultimately, the choice is up to you.  Maybe your the next QT and Pulp Fiction (which I didn't care for btw, i didn't care that it didn't have a linear plot, for my money, Highlander was far more interesting).  Or you could be Alex Parros.  Who you ask?  Exactly.  He was a kid in my class who had to have things done his way.  He finally gave up and got a 9-5 job b/c no one shared his vision.


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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Max
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 3:39pm Report to Moderator
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Ain't nobody write like that, bruh.

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Libby is one cool ass chick bruh.

And yeah cheers Dan, that's a good way to look at things... my idea of screenwriting is, just be clear enough as to what happens on screen, if people can visualize what you write then that's half the battle over.
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 3:44pm Report to Moderator
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Ah ha, the fog of war.

I don't always agree with Jeff, indeed most the time we are on polar opposites, but he is a good writer. Why would I ignore that. His Caribbean island feature script is very sound work and I liked 'it's a wonderful life'. In the OWC's Jeff usually hates my scripts, and it annoys me, but here's the point to remember ...

...That's my problem.

Don't blame the reader.

I may not share the response, and the 'I'm out' on the first page' is a bad habit of his, but we just have to take all feedback and distill.

As the wise Yoda said, 'there is no why', and accordingly there is no perfect, or certain way.

Just remember the OWC is a great, intense melting pot of learning.

Dip in as you wish.


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Max
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 3:45pm Report to Moderator
Been Around


Ain't nobody write like that, bruh.

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Btw Reef Dreamer, is that you in the pic? Looks like you're in the middle of nowhere with a GPS or something.
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DanC
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 3:48pm Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Killing villains since 1980!

Location
Buffalo NY
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Quoted from Reef Dreamer
Ah ha, the fog of war.

I don't always agree with Jeff, indeed most the time we are on polar opposites, but he is a good writer. Why would I ignore that. His Caribbean island feature script is very sound work and I liked 'it's a wonderful life'. In the OWC's Jeff usually hates my scripts, and it annoys me, but here's the point to remember ...

...That's my problem.

Don't blame the reader.

I may not share the response, and the 'I'm out' on the first page' is a bad habit of his, but we just have to take all feedback and distill.

As the wise Yoda said, 'there is no why', and accordingly there is no perfect, or certain way.

Just remember the OWC is a great, intense melting pot of learning.

Dip in as you wish.


I agree it's annoying when Jeff says "I'm out" on page 1.  Because the story might be fantastic and he wouldn't know it.

But, the way I look at it, the person who reads my script when I send it in to be read for a contest or for a chance to sell/option it might be as much a stickler for the same stuff Jeff is and toss it aside.  Like I have said, I'd rather hear it here on this site where I can make the necessary changes then have it tossed aside and never know why, unless I pay hundreds of dollars to find out why.

Jeff is free, for now   

Dan


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 4:02pm Report to Moderator
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Part time writer

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Quoted from Max
Btw Reef Dreamer, is that you in the pic? Looks like you're in the middle of nowhere with a GPS or something.


It is.

Just our local sand dunes and me caught on my phone .

I live on an island 9 miles by 6 - beautiful, but difficult to be lost  


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Stumpzian
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 4:11pm Report to Moderator
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My opinion -- The "I'm out" technique in an OWC is poor form. We're supposed to read as many entries as we can, comment, and vote. Yes, reading 36 scripts is exhausting, but that's the deal. Reading just a page or two makes the reviewer sound as if he or she is just looking for an excuse to move on. To me, this approach violates the spirit of the exercise. If you've entered, you should read the entire script.

As for bailing on a non-OWC script, that's perfectly fine.

Henry



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Dreamscale
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 4:53pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Stumpzian
My opinion -- The "I'm out" technique in an OWC is poor form. We're supposed to read as many entries as we can, comment, and vote. Yes, reading 36 scripts is exhausting, but that's the deal. Reading just a page or two makes the reviewer sound as if he or she is just looking for an excuse to move on. To me, this approach violates the spirit of the exercise. If you've entered, you should read the entire script.

As for bailing on a non-OWC script, that's perfectly fine.Henry


I could quote and respond to every single post, really, but I don't have the time or energy, so I'll just respond to Henry in a way I think will make sense to everyone, but then again, most of my replies or even feedback fall on deaf ears, so we'll see.

3 ways to look at this, IMO.

1)  OWC's offer a plethora of scripts to read and digest, much like a buffet in Vegas.  When you sit down with your first plate of food, should you really eat everything on it, when you know you're not impressed with something?  Not me, man.  In fact, if I don't like any of the items I chose, I'll have 1 bite each, and leave my plate for the waitor to remove and go back and start all over again, knowing that I'll find a bunch of stuff I really will enjoy, or at least won't dislike.

2)  In reality, very, very few peeps/writers read every single script, let alone even open the majority up.  You can go through this OWC or any OWC and see how few posts many of the writers provide, which to me is very sad and frustrating...even infuriating.

Comments of I liked it, I didn't like it, writing was ok, etc, do very little to nothing to help the writer.

Whether I read the first passage, the first page, or the whole damn script, the writer is going to know my feelings, as well as problem areas, and usually, ways to fix those problem areas, and if I did bail, exactly why and where.

3)  Peeps can say over and over that no one can know whether or not a script is good unless they read the entire thing.  To that, I simply call BullShit!  For me, it's pretty easy to know right out of the gate, but many times, even when I know what I'm reading isn't any good, as long as it's not terrible, or written in a way I'm not going to continue on, I'll read on and provide feedback more on the plot/story/etc, then on a line by line problem listing.

I'll also bet anyone that wants to put a bottle of Jagie on the table that my feedback almost always contains something unique that the writer didn't hear anywhere else, and therein lay the little gems - now, whether or not the writer agrees with me or wants to listen to me, is up to them, each and every time.  And when they say, but no one else mentioned that, so I guess I don't need to worry about it, I say, think again, bro...I wuoldn't point it out if I wasn't trying to help you.

I see things that no one else will see...or bring up. If that's not worth the price of admission, I don't know what really is.
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Stumpzian
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 5:08pm Report to Moderator
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Fair enough. You certainly have a right to do it that way. And, even though you bailed on mine, you did point out  a format mistake I made (I knew better, too).


Quoted from Dreamscale

In reality, very, very few peeps/writers read every single script, let alone even open the majority up.  


I didn't know this.



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Dreamscale
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 5:25pm Report to Moderator
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Only 2 OWC entries have 36 or more posts, and the only reason these do is because someone posted multiple times - the leader in posts has 40 and I know the writer himself posted numerous times to pad his posts and views.

One entry only has 18 posts, meaning 1/2 of the 36 writers didn't say a word on it.

Revision History (1 edits)
Dreamscale  -  June 4th, 2015, 6:17pm
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DanC
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 6:41pm Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Killing villains since 1980!

Location
Buffalo NY
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1131
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Only 2 OWC entries have 36 or more posts, and the only reason these do is because someone posted multiple times - the leader in posts has 40 and I know the writer himself posted numerous times to pad his posts and views.

One entry only has 18 posts, meaning 1/2 of the 36 writers didn't say a word on it.


I think Jeff has a fair point here.  I know I reviewed all 35, but, I did it in contest fashion, not in critique fashion.  I know I gave a 1 or 2 sentence of why I did or didn't like something, but, for those who know me, when I review a script, I take my time and really dive into it.

We should all review each script, but, it is hard.  Time is a factor.  Next OWC I will take my time with each script.  I have the time, but, most don't.  

So, I can see Jeff's POV.  It is hard and if you don't like the first few pages, I can see why you don't want to finish it.  But, on the other hand, a story can be fantastic, but, the technique can be terrible.  The goal is to get the story up to a point where people do read it.


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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JSimon
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 6:55pm Report to Moderator
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I reviewed 25 scripts. I've done quite a few OWCs in the past and I know that a script will not get 25 reviews, and some of the reviews it does get will be a sentence or two. So I put in much more than I get out.

After the reveal, if I missed someone's script where the writer gave useful notes on my own, I will read their script. I never leave a debt hanging and I consider that a debt.

The rest of Jeff's comment is pure fantasy and envy. He's had a rough day. The Jeagers will go down good tonight.
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rendevous
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 7:03pm Report to Moderator
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Away

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Quoted from DanC


We should all review each script, but, it is hard.  Time is a factor.  Next OWC I will take my time with each script.  I have the time, but, most don't.  


I disagree. I think you should read all the scripts if you enter the OWC. But I see little point in posting a review for every script, particularly if you have nothing positive to say, or original for that matter.

Echoing views that have already been said a dozen times is pointless. I'm not going to post a wholly negative review. I think it's better to say nothing.

R


Out Of Character - updated


New Used Car

Green

Right Back

The Deuce - OWC - now on STS

Other scripts here
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DanC
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 9:24pm Report to Moderator
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Killing villains since 1980!

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Quoted from rendevous


I disagree. I think you should read all the scripts if you enter the OWC. But I see little point in posting a review for every script, particularly if you have nothing positive to say, or original for that matter.

Echoing views that have already been said a dozen times is pointless. I'm not going to post a wholly negative review. I think it's better to say nothing.

R


I am not sure what you disagree to.  I did read and post something to each story.  Sorry if I didn't get that impression.  What I didn't do was give an in-depth review of the story.  I thought I was supposed to just rate it for the future "what was the best."



Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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Grandma Bear
Posted: June 4th, 2015, 9:44pm Report to Moderator
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I'm not sure how many I've read. 25 maybe? I probably won't have time to read anymore. Maybe one, then I'll send Don my vote tomorrow. When the writers are revealed, I will read the ones I missed if the writers read during the OWC or are active members. There are always a few turkeys that never read anything. I won't bother with them. My script has 21 reads so far, I think.  All in all, a good rough and tumble as always. Might be awhile before I do another one though.


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