I put away creative writing for the month and decided to start playing around with the avenues purportedly available to sell a script.

1, I paid for an Email blast services. Purportedly a service that has an extensive data base of Agent and Production company contact information. You prepare a query and a log line and pay them to blast it out. There are several of these services out there. Anyway - the results from my test were haphazard at best. One totally legit response from an agency that I could have gotten the contact information on my own. If you have the money - the concept isn't bad as long as you recognize that you are paying for clerical assistance - not assistance in selling your script. The problem with the clerical assistance side is I got far too many no longer works here type notifications, a couple of scammy companies, etc. In other words - I don't sense there is a robust edit process going on.

2. Virtual PitchFest - pay $50 to get your query to 6 legitimate agents of companies with a guaranteed response from each company.  IMO - it was a waster - got identical responses (word for word) from each Agency. Looks like they're just clicking buttons.

3. IMDb Pro - I signed up and so far I'm relatively happy. I've started to build my own contact list based on the genres I write. Sure - you are not going to get to Sony Pictures - but there seems to be quite a few mid level companies some of which take submissions.

I have more success in terms of quality responses (not "yes" - but I could at least tell they might have read the query) from this process then from the paid services. And the nice thing is once you put your list together - you can shut off your membership.

I know that I wasted money on 1 and 2, but wanted to do my own testing.  

As a note: in the past I have a also tried Blacklist (hated it) and InkTip - nice folks but it really is just a derivative of the email blast - the only difference is that they claim the folks wanting your stuff will come to you. - Not so much.

Have not tried Stage 32 yet.

Any hoo - looks like the only viable avenue is to roll up the sleeves and do the work on my own.  

Thanks for doing that, Dave. Informative and very helpful. Though I suspected the answer you arrived at was the way I was gonna have to go anyway.  

Guys like you and Anthony are doing us a really cool service. Thanks!

Steve

My pleasure, Steven. It was a good chore to have during writer's block

Quoted from eldave1 As a note: in the past I have a also tried Blacklist (hated it)...

I'm interested to know why you hated it. What was your experience? I think CJ spoke of it disparagingly too, or maybe that was Thorsten?

Thanks for sharing Dave, very useful, first hand experience - out of interest, who's blast service did you use?

(Thanks Steve)

Anthony

Hey Dave,

Thanks for sharing this information. It’s great to see other people’s experiences of these services. I myself have tried Blacklist and also think it was a total waste of time.

I’m currently trying out Inktip. My script has been up for a 2 (out of 4) months plus I paid for it to be included in their magazine email blast which went out a week ago. I’ve had quite a few companies look at my logline but only 2 have downloaded the script so far. I’ve had no contact from any of these companies. After 4 weeks I sent a letter to the first company which downloaded the script (as per Ink Tip’s instructions) and they emailed me back just to say they are not interested.  I have to wait a few more weeks before I’m ‘allowed’ to contact the second.

Interestingly, I’ve not noticed any discernible increase in views since their magazine was published.

Stage32 I’m wary of. They promote so many webinars and sales pitches to ‘Executives’, all of which they charge for, it makes me feel this is more of a cash cow for the organisers than a legit site for promoting your work. But I may be wrong, anyone had good experiences with these guys? I’d love to hear if anyone has paid to pitch and if it has turned into an option or sale?

Quoted from LC I'm interested to know why you hated it. What was your experience? I think CJ spoke of it disparagingly too, or maybe that was Thorsten?

Hey Libby: My concern is pretty much with the set up. This info may be dated since I'm off the site, but you pay $25 per month to have your script listed along with the other multi thousands of scripts. If you want to get your script really noticed - you pay $50 per review and if you average a high score (8 out of 10 as I recall) your scripts will be highlighted to be read by industry professionals - or something like that. So the paradigm is to chase reviews at $50 a pop in the hopes of eventually getting scores in the 8 range.

You don't know who is doing the reviews other than that they are "industry professionals" and I think we all know what broad range of folks that might include.

I did pay for 3 reviews for the Beginning of The End and The End. They were relatively thin in substance (and I scored real lousy - so maybe that biased me).  For the same amount of money I could have easily got a professional review from someone who's credentials I could verify. But that carrot (your script could be viewed by someone really important) is intoxicating.

I think they have around 10,000 members. If just 25% of those are paying for one review month, they're bring down more than $4 million per year. A lot of coin.

So - very long winded way of saying - I hate the paradigm - pay to get listed and pay a lot more for reviews if you really want to get noticed. I would be much more interested in the site if it were merely a listing service with free community reviews.

All that being said - most of these sites (except for this one) are in the business of making money - rather than being in the interest of "fostering the screenwriting community". Otherwise - they would be non-profit. So I hate this site more than others because of the tie ins between paying for reviews and getting your script viewed/read.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood Thanks for sharing Dave, very useful, first hand experience - out of interest, who's blast service did you use? (Thanks Steve) Anthony

Selling Your Screenplay (Meyers)

Quoted from MarkRenshaw Hey Dave, Thanks for sharing this information. It’s great to see other people’s experiences of these services. I myself have tried Blacklist and also think it was a total waste of time. I’m currently trying out Inktip. My script has been up for a 2 (out of 4) months plus I paid for it to be included in their magazine email blast which went out a week ago. I’ve had quite a few companies look at my logline but only 2 have downloaded the script so far. I’ve had no contact from any of these companies. After 4 weeks I sent a letter to the first company which downloaded the script (as per Ink Tip’s instructions) and they emailed me back just to say they are not interested.  I have to wait a few more weeks before I’m ‘allowed’ to contact the second. Interestingly, I’ve not noticed any discernible increase in views since their magazine was published. Stage32 I’m wary of. They promote so many webinars and sales pitches to ‘Executives’, all of which they charge for, it makes me feel this is more of a cash cow for the organisers than a legit site for promoting your work. But I may be wrong, anyone had good experiences with these guys? I’d love to hear if anyone has paid to pitch and if it has turned into an option or sale?

I was on InkTip and now I am off. Just no success. I am going to give Stage 32 a whirl - no money upfront for joining so what the heck.

Quoted from CJ Walley Add me, bro; https://www.stage32.com/cjwalley

Okay - CJ - I sent the invite - I am just barely on the site - no bio, etc yet. - I Really liked your page.

Quoted from CJ Walley Thanks buddy. Great to connect with you. I do well out of my Stage 32 page, certainly worth investing a bit of time in.

Yeah - early next year I'm going to get to it! Thanks

Hey Dave... I'm active over on Stage 32 https://www.stage32.com/profile/179396/anthony-cawood as well... me and CJ are the sensible ones

Figured it might be Ashley's blast you were referencing,  not used it (yet) but I like Ashley he does a lot of good stuff for screenwriters, a lot of it free, and he seems to be a good guy. Was on one of his free webinars earlier in the week on this very subject.

My thoughts...

Blacklist - not used BUT, it does have a number of successes under it's belt and it does really get behind the screenwriters it likes (table reads, podcast interviews etc). However it is divisive because of the reviews element, but I'm not sure that's much different to a lot of the competitions out there.

Inktip - not as divisive because it just carries your listing, no reviews or anything to piss us writers off, BUT lots of producers check out your logline (often repeatedly) but read nothing further, and as per Mark, I just paid for a magazine listing and have seen no uplift in traffic. The other thing I currently pay for with Inktip is the Preferred Newsletter, a weekly email with 5-10 leads for specific producers looking for scripts... this is the one I think I will persevere with.

Email/Fax blasts - you are at the mercy of the person who's built up the database of contacts and it's quite expensive (think Ashley's is over $100)... and you can of course create your own databse with UMDB Pro.

Stage 32/Happy writers - great site and a great place to connect with people with similar aspirations, yes there is a lot of marketing but you don't have to pay for anything. The pitching service (Happy Writers) is very popular and you know exactly who you are pitching to, There have been Options, Agent connections etc from here.

I think there's two key things to remember with these services... the first is that they are ALL businesses, they have been established to make money, from people like us... and there is no single way to 'make it' as a screenwriter, there's no harm in trying all the above services and work out which wors best for you, depending on the depth of your pockets!

And check out the ineterview I did with Steve Prowse who found another way to break in. http://www.simplyscripts.com/2.....-and-anthony-cawood/

I think if we share our experiences on here then it'll be good for all of us, I'll be pitching via Happy Writers in the new year, so I'll let you all know how it goes!

Anthony    

Quoted from AnthonyCawood Hey Dave... I'm active over on Stage 32 https://www.stage32.com/profile/179396/anthony-cawood as well... me and CJ are the sensible ones Figured it might be Ashley's blast you were referencing,  not used it (yet) but I like Ashley he does a lot of good stuff for screenwriters, a lot of it free, and he seems to be a good guy. Was on one of his free webinars earlier in the week on this very subject. My thoughts... Blacklist - not used BUT, it does have a number of successes under it's belt and it does really get behind the screenwriters it likes (table reads, podcast interviews etc). However it is divisive because of the reviews element, but I'm not sure that's much different to a lot of the competitions out there. Inktip - not as divisive because it just carries your listing, no reviews or anything to piss us writers off, BUT lots of producers check out your logline (often repeatedly) but read nothing further, and as per Mark, I just paid for a magazine listing and have seen no uplift in traffic. The other thing I currently pay for with Inktip is the Preferred Newsletter, a weekly email with 5-10 leads for specific producers looking for scripts... this is the one I think I will persevere with. Email/Fax blasts - you are at the mercy of the person who's built up the database of contacts and it's quite expensive (think Ashley's is over $100)... and you can of course create your own databse with UMDB Pro. Stage 32/Happy writers - great site and a great place to connect with people with similar aspirations, yes there is a lot of marketing but you don't have to pay for anything. The pitching service (Happy Writers) is very popular and you know exactly who you are pitching to, There have been Options, Agent connections etc from here. I think there's two key things to remember with these services... the first is that they are ALL businesses, they have been established to make money, from people like us... and there is no single way to 'make it' as a screenwriter, there's no harm in trying all the above services and work out which wors best for you, depending on the depth of your pockets! And check out the ineterview I did with Steve Prowse who found another way to break in. http://www.simplyscripts.com/2.....-and-anthony-cawood/ I think if we share our experiences on here then it'll be good for all of us, I'll be pitching via Happy Writers in the new year, so I'll let you all know how it goes! Anthony

Cool - just sent you an invite.

On Ashley - yes, I quite liked him. I do think he tries hard at this and is not at all the pushy type. I just don't think he has the magic bullet.

I read the interview - nicely done on your part - very informative.  

Thanks Dave

And for anyone that's interested here's the link to the webinar I mentioned

http://www.sellingyourscreenpl.....eenplay-and-sell-it/

Password - webinar0812

Anthony

Thanks Dave, and CJ for your enlightening comments re Blacklist - I didn't know any of that info (probably cause I hadn't looked into it) I thought it was an elite club of sorts, which I suppose it is in a way - dependent on how much money you're willing to invest, and I suspect the usual 'who you know'. I only really took notice when The Blacklist came out at the end of the year. This year's is coming out next week, I believe.

Thanks Anthony too, for the info on Stage 32 and Happy Writers - never heard of it.

Good stuff all round posting these personal experiences up on the boards. Thanks again.

Anyone have any experience with The Bloodlist?

Quoted from CJ Walley There's effectively two Blacklists and it gets very confusion. Franklin Leonard originally set up a thing called the BlackList where executives like himself would all vote for their favourite scripts which hadn't found a buyer and thus weren't in production. This got a lot of acclaim early on as people thought it was the reason certain major scripts got picked up. For example Social Network was featured on there before it came out. Since then it's come about that many of the scripts listed actually already have producers attached and has worked exceptionally well as a PR vehicle that appears to be giving underdogs a chance. Plus, obviously one doesn't have to think too deeply into how a clique of friends are all going to vote. Franklin then formed a small team that created the BlackList paid evaluation service, promoted as a way of again finding the best scripts out there that had yet to be discovered. It also turned out to be a way to make a lot of money and become highly influential.This was originally opened up to amateurs and later opened up at a discounted rate to WGA members. It also runs a few diversity competitions within its listings. This has made Franklin one of the most powerful people in the industry right now. Personally I think that's a very bad thing.

Exactly. Causality the the key here. You can take anyone of the successful scripts that have been linked to the Blacklist and see that their journey to success really had nothing to do with being on the original blacklist or on the subscription Blacklist site.

My NFL friends will understand this - every year, experts put together lists of the top college football players - many of these players will ultimately be drafted by pro teams. The fact they get drafted will have nothing to do with the fact they were on the expert lists and everything to do with all the other things they did (workouts, tape submittals, game films, hiring agents, etc) to get drafted. The fact that they were on someone's list was coincidental.

What I would like to see is a specific list of scripts that had success specifically and directly related to paying for the Blacklist service.

I've not used The Blacklist as yet, so I have no vested interest BUT... I think it sometimes gets an unduly rough ride...

Yes, Franklin Leonard and the site have become quite powerful, but I'm not sure that this is a bad thing as at least it's an open way in and people without connections do get noticed and optioned or represented.

E.g. http://filmschoolrejects.com/o.....ess-than-a-month.php

I believe there's also four or five films now produced that were found on the site, Nightingale, Eddie the Eagle spring to mind.

Now of course examples like this are still rare and represent a really small % compared to the number of scripts hosted on the site... but getting your script produced by ANY method is statistically a long shot, lottery odds type of long shot... yet we're all still hoping, right?

What seems to irk most writers is the readers and their ratings, from reading on here and elsewhere I think there's probably a combination of some bad readers and reviewers, some writers with unrealistic views of their own work, and an unrealistic expectation of the site itself. For the first, complain to the site if you have legitimate concerns, they often (apparently) will have a different reader look at the script, for the second - put it on here first and get some free feedback, see if it agrees... for the third, well we're all hoping one of these resource will pan out, maybe the next one will.

So I think Blklst is one option to try, one of very few that can point to a handful of successes, but it won't suit everyone... they acknowledge that themselves.

And if you want to see Franklin Leonard respond to some of these issues, here's the AMA he did on the screenwriting reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/comments/3h5dj7/the_black_list_ask_founder_franklin_leonard/

Anthony

Quoted from AnthonyCawood I've not used The Blacklist as yet, so I have no vested interest BUT... I think it sometimes gets an unduly rough ride... Yes, Franklin Leonard and the site have become quite powerful, but I'm not sure that this is a bad thing as at least it's an open way in and people without connections do get noticed and optioned or represented. E.g. http://filmschoolrejects.com/o.....ess-than-a-month.php I believe there's also four or five films now produced that were found on the site, Nightingale, Eddie the Eagle spring to mind. Now of course examples like this are still rare and represent a really small % compared to the number of scripts hosted on the site... but getting your script produced by ANY method is statistically a long shot, lottery odds type of long shot... yet we're all still hoping, right? What seems to irk most writers is the readers and their ratings, from reading on here and elsewhere I think there's probably a combination of some bad readers and reviewers, some writers with unrealistic views of their own work, and an unrealistic expectation of the site itself. For the first, complain to the site if you have legitimate concerns, they often (apparently) will have a different reader look at the script, for the second - put it on here first and get some free feedback, see if it agrees... for the third, well we're all hoping one of these resource will pan out, maybe the next one will. So I think Blklst is one option to try, one of very few that can point to a handful of successes, but it won't suit everyone... they acknowledge that themselves. And if you want to see Franklin Leonard respond to some of these issues, here's the AMA he did on the screenwriting reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/comments/3h5dj7/the_black_list_ask_founder_franklin_leonard/ Anthony

Hey Anthony:

Everything I have read about Franklin leads me to believe that he is a decent guy. But the issue really is whether or not the Blacklist site is an effective tool for exposure.

I entered the The Last Statesman in the 2010 Nicholls Contest and made the quarter finals. I got five legitimate requests for the script - didn't sell it - but I viewed that is a success and even if success is a remote possibility will continue to enter scripts there since I at least know that success will result in some outcome.

This month, I have gotten three legitimate requests for the Beginning of The End and The End from querying firms I found by myself on IMDB. A better success rate than using the blast services. So, I will continue to do that. As a note, I do think that being able to add other contest results (PAGE, ZEOTROPE) for this script in my query greased the wheels a little bit so I think there is value there as well.

Yes - they are all long shots. But in my experience - the Black List is the least economical and successful of the long shots. In addition, it is structured as a bit of a money pit since ostensibly you have to chase reviews at a relatively high cost in order to get the ratings required for notice. Contests are one and done.

I absolutely agree with you in that all of these are long shots. But in our cases, they may be the only shots available.

My new problem is this - how much time and effort do I devote to writing versus time and effort trying to sell my writing???? This month has been consumed by the latter (haven't written anything in awhile) and the business end of this craft is a tedious and soul devouring endeavor. Ah - the arts

      

Hi Dave

Congrats on the read requests Dave, really hope they pan out.

And agree re the effort needed to sell, a necessary and time consuming evil ;-(

Anthony

Hey CJ - we've all got opinions, and as always I respect yours, but disagree on this occasion.

Anthony

Quoted from eldave1 My new problem is this - how much time and effort do I devote to writing versus time and effort trying to sell my writing???? This month has been consumed by the latter (haven't written anything in awhile) and the business end of this craft is a tedious and soul devouring endeavor. Ah - the arts

THIS!!

My writing time is very limited, it’s very frustrating sometimes. So then when I do decide to try and promote some stuff I’ve written, I’m faced with a myriad of options which are all beset by potential booby traps and paths with dead ends. Plus they usually require me to invest some money as well as time which I’d rather spend writing; it’s a long, arduous, painful journey.

As for the Black List. The last thing I sent them, a feature, the guy downloaded the script (you get a notification email when they do) and posted his review 2 hours later. He missed so much it was obvious to me it was a scan read; someone rushing through to get as many script reviews done as possible.  

I complained about the turnaround time but got a response saying 2 hours was adequate time to review a script. I wouldn’t mind if someone was doing me a favour and reviewing for free but for $50 this seemed unacceptable. If you’ve never used this service, by all means give it a whirl but I certainly won’t be doing so again.  

Quoted from MarkRenshaw THIS!! My writing time is very limited, it’s very frustrating sometimes. So then when I do decide to try and promote some stuff I’ve written, I’m faced with a myriad of options which are all beset by potential booby traps and paths with dead ends. Plus they usually require me to invest some money as well as time which I’d rather spend writing; it’s a long, arduous, painful journey.

Yep. It has also taught me a hard lesson. All my life I thought I wanted to be a writer but didn't start really writing until my mid fifties. What I learned is that I loved writing. But, not so sure I enjoy being a writer if that journey  entails all the crap you have to go through to sell something.

That is what makes the "services" so compelling as they are marketed as the magic bullets to allow someone or something else to take care of the business end of this craft. Sadly, it is smoke and mirrors for the most part.

Quoted from CJ Walley I've said it before and I'll say it again, when it comes to most script promotion services, we may aswell be better off burning a pile of money in the hope a producer spots the smoke plume.

This gave me a laugh - thanks.

Yes - the services can be closely akin to the "How to Make Millions in the Stock Market" gurus. If they really knew the secret - you would be the last one they told as they would be off making millions of dollars in the stock market.

Quoted from LC I'm interested to know why you hated it. What was your experience? I think CJ spoke of it disparagingly too, or maybe that was Thorsten?

Hey, I don't think I spoke about it much here, but my experiences with my Blacklist-Test were mixed. One of my pilot scripts got an initial 7 with notes basically saying it's going to be the next big thing and A-list actors would kill themselves to get a role in it. An hour after that, I got a "Pro Review" of 5/10 - so my average of two ratings was 6.0 and I made it to the bottom end of the Top-List for my genre (the cap was 5.97).

I was happy with that and decided to upload a second pilot script. It got a 6/10 review from them and one hour later a "Pro Rating" of 5/10 - see the pattern here?

Now that second script averaged 5.5 - and due to their rating procedure, that second script also influenced the rating of the first script which now averaged 5.87 and was out of the top-list again.

Obviously I bought a second evaluation for the first script - guess what? It got a 4/10, while the notes were more or less positive. Notes said it has strong lead characters - got a 4/10 in Characters. It said the scifi-plot was entertaining and they enjoyed the read - plot got 3/10. You get the point. The only negative comment was that the script was a derivation of "The X-Files" - Totally amazing, as it was a script where the main protagonist goes on a time travel to save the world from destruction. Had absolutely nothing to do with X-Files - but okay. I wrote them a mail and asked how it is possible to get mostly positive feedback notes combined with ratings of 3/10 and 4/10. The answer was: The notes are not meant to justify the ratings. Does anybody understand that? How can the same person write the characters are great and rate characters 4/10?
The next thing that happened was that I got a mail from their support telling me my script was rated quite differently from two of their readers and they would offer me a third evaluation for half the price. Given an evaluation takes 3-4 weeks from ordering it until you receive your rating, I would have had to pay for another month of hosting to do so, so it would have been another 75$.

That was the point were I removed my auto renewal for hosting and took my scripts down. Seems like a total cash cow to me. Even when my script was on the toplist, I got 3 downloads and zero enquiries in like 4 weeks. And being on the top list means your script is ranked among the best 25-50 of all scripts from a month (or 3 months if you manage to stay on the list that long). So, even if you make it to their selection, there is as good as no gain from it. At least that was my experience.

I had a very similar experience on the ratings.

Wherever money is involved, there's a good chance you're being conned.

Salesman smiling at you? Punch him in the face. He's a crook.

The IMDB Pro approach has always confused me, and I haven't used it yet.

Is it just going on to pages of producers and pulling their info from there? Is it that easy or is there quite a bit of digging to do?

It's just time consuming Glenn as it does require some digging around... and of course, once youve identified some producers you want to email... well then you've got the dreaded query letter to try and craft!

Anthony

Quoted from AnthonyCawood It's just time consuming Glenn as it does require some digging around... and of course, once youve identified some producers you want to email... well then you've got the dreaded query letter to try and craft! Anthony

Yeah, I really struggle writing queries. Also, I don't mind spending a bit of time digging if I get some useful info from it. Suppose I should get the trial and check it all out.

As for Stage 32, I'm on there and used it quite a bite a while back. Haven't checked it out in a while. Seems like a good place to make a few connections. Even got a gig out of it, but the guy was a complete wack ball!

Quoted from IamGlenn The IMDB Pro approach has always confused me, and I haven't used it yet. Is it just going on to pages of producers and pulling their info from there? Is it that easy or is there quite a bit of digging to do?

It is a data base that theoretically has everything entertainment. It has broad based search features:

1. Search By Title, People, Company etc. (just hit the company tab.
2. Once you are on the company page - you can filter the results by type (i.e., Agency, Production, Management), by location (city) and by where they rank on the company meter (i.e., user interest) list.

Then you just start clicking companies -   when you click one you will information on their staff, clients. films, etc along with whether or not they have a web-site or a contact (email) address.

So, when I used this I started small. Goal - to find 20 agencies or production companies in the Los Angeles area to query. Using the search parameters above helped narrow the list and then I checked out the web-sites to see which ones appeared to fit based on what they produced and whether or not they were query friendly (or at least didn't have a harsh don't send anything). As I found them - I added the information to my own Excel spreadsheet list (i.s., so I eventually won't need IMDB).

So, grab the free trial - sent a small goal of 20 and whack out a list to send your queries to. It doesn't take as long as you would think.

PS - don't waste your time with the real big boys (e.g., SONY, MGM, etc.)

Quoted from eldave1 PS - don't waste your time with the real big boys (e.g., SONY, MGM, etc.)

I once got an exec from Nickelodeon to read one of my scripts.

IMDb is great, but I didn't use it to its full capacity when I had the chance. I actually paid for a year, lol.

I suppose it depends on how you pitch. Each pitch must be catered to the person you're writing to as much as possible.

You can also drill down by genre, so if you have a Thriller script and you are looking for comapnies with a recent penchant then you can find these.

It's a little harder and starts with Google, so I search 'thrillers 2015 imdb' and go to the search results page, from there it's as per Dave's instructions, just drill down.

Anthony

Oh... and where you have the name of a producer but the IMDB Pro lists the email address as info@pretendstudio.com or a similarly generic address, you can use a service like http://anymailfinder.com/ to try and get an actual address for the individual.

Anthony

Sweet tip Anthony. I wasn't aware of these services.  Thank you!

-Mark

Now that would be a valuable collaboration project - a team of SS members working together to put together a database of relevant producers and production companies, perhaps listed by genre / type of project.

Updated with notes on success, etc. Could be an Excel spreadsheet that lived in a Dropbox or similar, not public but also shared freely between those in on it on the understanding that the construction and maintenance of it would be a team effort.

Actors have a similar model with what's known as a 'co op' - all the members essentially work as each other's agents. There's info on how that works in practice here: http://cpma.coop/questions-and-answers/

I guess what I'm suggesting is a writer co-op, whereby a group of members would agree to band together to support their own - and each other's - careers. Basically everyone is a client AND an agent. Probably there'd be a small financial input from each member to a central pot, from which would be funded joining fees to places like IMDB Pro - but with a shared log-in account, so all members would have access (and an expectation that they would contribute) - and overheads like a website. Writers would know and understand each other's strengths and portfolios, so if something came up that wasn't right for them, but there was a member they think might be good for it, they would be responsible for pursuing that on behalf of their 'client'. What's good for one is good for the group. As a 'business' (scary word, but there would be legal benefits to forming it that way) it would be non-profit making - the idea would be make money to keep it going, but profits (i.e. commissions? That I'm not yet clear about) would be reinvested back into the business.

As the article I've linked to says, there are obvious drawbacks - jealousy and self-interest probably being the most obvious, why would you put someone else in ahead of yourself? But some of us are better at horror than others, some at comedy. It would be a bit like a pub quiz team - you try to blend the right members, so you cover all bases. The continued existence of actor co-ops shows it CAN work.

Having been away from SS for a few years, one development I'm impressed with is the apparent swing towards more 'career-savvy' writers, many of whom are on this thread - people keen to understand how the industry works, and how writers can get ahead. There are lots of people strategising as well as writing, which is the other half of the battle. Maybe it's always been like that, but I don't remember members like Anthony Cawood last time round. It's a very positive thing.

So cards on the table: I want to start writing more of my own material, but I'm also looking for a project to get involved with in the new year outside of my day job. Something to help build. If there are UK members here (I feel it would be exponentially harder to do this internationally, and simply too difficult at least at first) who'd be interested in genuinely discussing the feasibility of some sort of writer co-op agency - just preliminarily, no commitment to anything at this stage, I'd definitely be up for that. I work for a publisher of playscripts and theatre books, so my company comes into contact with agents all the time. I also know and hang out with a great many actors, writers, comedians... I even applied for and didn't get an internship at the big agency Curtis Brown a few years ago (definitely not bitter). So I could ask around and try and learn more about how agencies work, also the co-op model from those that have done it and the experiences they're willing to share.

What does anyone think? New thread, which could be taken to another, more private forum if necessary?

(P.S. I'm totally aware there may be fatal flaws to this idea I haven't spotted, or a general lack of interest. So no offence taken whatsoever if it doesn't appeal. As I say, at first it might just be interesting to kick the idea around a little, even on a hypothetical level.

Mark - glad that tip is useful, sure I've picked it up from someone else... so won't take all the credit!

Hi Jonny - I've been around for two years, initially as an aspiring writer just happy to have found SS and a place where I could learn, I wrote the articles, suggested screenwriting leads sub forum etc because the business side of things seemed harder to get useful info on... and figured paying it forward a little couldn't do any harm.

Re a writers co-op, well I'm in the UK and happy to discuss how this might work and see if it has any legs... probably best to get festive season out of the way first though

Anthony

Quoted from AnthonyCawood Mark - glad that tip is useful, sure I've picked it up from someone else... so won't take all the credit! Hi Jonny - I've been around for two years, initially as an aspiring writer just happy to have found SS and a place where I could learn, I wrote the articles, suggested screenwriting leads sub forum etc because the business side of things seemed harder to get useful info on... and figured paying it forward a little couldn't do any harm. Re a writers co-op, well I'm in the UK and happy to discuss how this might work and see if it has any legs... probably best to get festive season out of the way first though Anthony

Agreed, I'm in the fortunate position of being about to break up from work for two weeks, no kids or anything (plus my girlfriend is away with her family) but obviously what's leisure time for me isn't for everyone else! Maybe I should spend the time actually writing instead, sigh...

Impressed by what you're doing, though. Thought that was worth putting 'on the record', so to speak. Keep it up!

Thank you Jonny, really appreciated... my Xmas was going to be okay but now decided to try and write a script for the competition I posted in the other thread, closing date is 31st Jan ;-(

My email is anthony at anthonycawood.co.uk if you want to kick stuff around...

Anthony

Hey guys,
    I think I can be a part of this.  I have a full paid membership for ISA announcements and I can list them on here.

What we should try to do is to pool all of our resources and ideas on "the next stage" even though I'm nowhere near ready to take that step.

Instead of having 3 or 4 people pay for the same service (unless they want to of course) we should list what we belong to and that way, people can join other services to have more coverage for each other and the site (and ourselves of course).  

So, I can help with ISA stuff.

Even with me being so ill right now, it doesn't take a lot to cut and paste a link...

Dan

That sounds very close to theft. Or perhaps it's deception? Gaining paid services for free. Perhaps it's a grey area. Grey's fine. Carry on.

Dan - I already publish all the ISA job announcements on the Opportunities forum, the only advantage paid membershup gives you is 5 days early application priveledge...
but once that's up anyone can apply.,, not sure if there are other ISA advantages for paid members that are worth sharing?

Dan if you've not seen the new forum check it out http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-writingopportunities/

I list opportunites from ISA, Stage 32, Reddit. Upwork, Craigslist and a few other places, everywhere I normally look!

Anthony

For anyone interested, I just want to add that my 4 months on Inktip is up. During that time I had quite a few companies view my logline and a handful downloaded my script.

For the ones who looked at the script, I waited the 3-6 weeks the website asked and then contacted them direct as instructed as none of them came to me.  So far, only one has replied with a polite pass.

Now it could be that my logline/script is no good, after all it’s my first attempt at writing a feature and this whole exercise an experiment. But what I can say is, I did pay extra to be included in their email newsletter blast and when they went out, there was no noticeable increases in logline or script viewings.  Statistically speaking this should have resulted in an increase in views at least, if not downloads.

So all I can surmise from this is I need to get better at writing loglines and feature scripts lol, plus paying extra for the listing doesn’t seem worth it.

-Mark

I didn't used to think InkTip was very good at all and decided my The Hit (female lead thriller heist) would be my last one there. Lo and behold, the last week of the four month posting Minds Entertainment optioned it. Two days ago, I put another script up there. We'll see if anyone bites. I do need a better logline though, not to mention synopsis. Maybe I can talk someone from SS into giving me a hand with that. I truly suck at these things.  

Quoted from Grandma Bear I didn't used to think InkTip was very good at all and decided my The Hit (female lead thriller heist) would be my last one there. Lo and behold, the last week of the four month posting Minds Entertainment optioned it. Two days ago, I put another script up there. We'll see if anyone bites. I do need a better logline though, not to mention synopsis. Maybe I can talk someone from SS into giving me a hand with that. I truly suck at these things.

Congratulations on the option! That's great news! My script needed a lot of development, I knew that and just hoped someone could see the potential but alas it is not meant to be.

As for the logline, there's a logline review thread somehwere on these boards. I used it for mine and it helped improve it...I think. I too suck at loglines, synopsis and treatments. I just can't generate the same enthusiasm when writing those as I do the script.

Very cool on the option.

I did InkTip for about 6 months years ago and finally though in the towel. Little reads and no requests.  I don't necessarily blame them, just didn't seem to generate anything for me.

On Stage32 - still a free member but finally had to move them to my junk folder as I was getting 4 to 5 marketing emails a day - it became a turnoff.

I asked around to some people I know in the business and that company has a pretty good reputation, so I'm hoping that it will actually get produced and not just disappear, which is common. The contract was decent too, so I'm optimistic. It's supposed to be mentioned in their newsletter some time in March.

I get an email every Thursday with script requests from InkTip, just like I'm sure most people here do. You don't have to be a genius to see certain trends. In my cases I jumped on the ideas of contained thrillers and horrors and also female lead thrillers. All have been optioned and are in some stage of development. IMHO, I wouldn't bother putting big budget stuff on InkTip, but if you have smaller scripts aimed for the indie market, I think it can work. I still say though, that SS is THE BEST place to post scripts. People do look here too.  

Quoted Text I get an email every Thursday with script requests from InkTip, just like I'm sure most people here do. You don't have to be a genius to see certain trends. In my cases I jumped on the ideas of contained thrillers and horrors and also female lead thrillers. All have been optioned and are in some stage of development. IMHO, I wouldn't bother putting big budget stuff on InkTip, but if you have smaller scripts aimed for the indie market, I think it can work. I still say though, that SS is THE BEST place to post scripts. People do look here too.

Yeah, I get that too (I don't have access to the full list anymore not being a member). I do like the fact their requests are narrowly stated so that you know before submitting whether or not you're even in their ballpark.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I didn't used to think InkTip was very good at all and decided my The Hit (female lead thriller heist) would be my last one there. Lo and behold, the last week of the four month posting Minds Entertainment optioned it. Two days ago, I put another script up there. We'll see if anyone bites. I do need a better logline though, not to mention synopsis. Maybe I can talk someone from SS into giving me a hand with that. I truly suck at these things.

Pia,
    I'd be glad to help you if I can.  If you want, let me know what you want read for the treatment and logline.  I think I'm okay at those.  At least, I think in my head that I'm okay, and who knows what that means?  

But, I'm willing to try.  Perhaps together, we can punch out a top quality eye catching post.

Congrats on the option and I love the new poster in your pic.  Very cool!!

Dan

Whats the current logline?

I've used all the various bits of Inktip's service and overall I think it's a pretty decent site.

I've had about a year on the Listings service, have had a lot of logline views and a few synopsis and script reads, but nothing further. The biggest frustration is prod co's who read your logline repeatedly without ever looking at the synopsis or script, often 10 or more views in a couple of hours... can't figure out why they're doing it!

I've used the magazine a couple of times but it never seemed to generate any extra traffic at all... so I wouldn't recommend it.

I get the weekly Inktip preferred newsletter too, the opportunities are pretty clear and I agree with Pia/Dave re low budget thrillers and horrors etc they seem to be most requested. I've not had success with it yet (way to go Pia!) but this is the one that I think is worth spending money on as you are matching your scripts to what is requested... and the more scripts you have the more useful the newsletter is to you.

Worth remembering that Inktip also have the free listing service for Short scripts too. After SS this is the most successful that I've found for selling shorts... and they also have a free newsletter which has a couple of leads, often shorts, every week.

Anthony

Quoted from DanC Pia,     I'd be glad to help you if I can.

Very kind of you and I appreciate that. I sent it to a friend this morning who offered to help. It's hard to ask people for help when you need help with specifics and not just a review because it means you're actually asking people to work. This was an older script that I had lying around. Someone asked me for a contained thriller so I dusted it off and put it on InkTip in case they are not interested, maybe someone else is.  

As far as InkTip's newsletter goes, I used to post the producer requests here every week, but now they have changed it so you have to subscribe to see all of them.

All I can recommend is trying Wildsound. Wildsound doesn't cost a fortune, I think its around 30$ for a TV script, but they also give extensive and helpful notes. In fact, the first time I submitted Mindwalker, they rejected it and sent a lot of useful stuff about how to improve it. Resubmitted a year (and several drafts) later and it won the February contest and is now in the pool for the yearly contest. My pilot won the TV pilot category in Feb. 2016 and they recorded a table read with professional actors. So far, only about 180 views on youtube, but I've been contacted by a production company, they asked to send both the table read script as well as one of my earlier TV pilots as well as series bibles etc.

That's one seemingly serious contact after a week, more than I got out of The Blacklist, which cost almost 10 times as much as Wildsound. I've also enlisted my two shorts from STS at the wildsound short < 10 pages contest for (I think) 10$ a script now, curious to see where they'll end up. Also close to finishing the writing work for the first season of the TV show I'm writing for, so hopefully will have more time for my own scripts soon again.

Quoted from Equinox All I can recommend is trying Wildsound. Wildsound doesn't cost a fortune, I think its around 30$ for a TV script, but they also give extensive and helpful notes. In fact, the first time I submitted Mindwalker, they rejected it and sent a lot of useful stuff about how to improve it. Resubmitted a year (and several drafts) later and it won the February contest and is now in the pool for the yearly contest. My pilot won the TV pilot category in Feb. 2016 and they recorded a table read with professional actors. So far, only about 180 views on youtube, but I've been contacted by a production company, they asked to send both the table read script as well as one of my earlier TV pilots as well as series bibles etc. That's one seemingly serious contact after a week, more than I got out of The Blacklist, which cost almost 10 times as much as Wildsound. I've also enlisted my two shorts from STS at the wildsound short < 10 pages contest for (I think) 10$ a script now, curious to see where they'll end up. Also close to finishing the writing work for the first season of the TV show I'm writing for, so hopefully will have more time for my own scripts soon again.

Hey buddy, good to see you on here!  I'm feeling a tiny bit better and have been using hands-free software to help on the typing parts so my neck won't hurt as much...

How did your screenplay go?  Perhaps I can read it if you want...

Keep us informed of the progress of your projects.

Dan

Quoted from Equinox All I can recommend is trying Wildsound. Wildsound doesn't cost a fortune, I think its around 30$ for a TV script, but they also give extensive and helpful notes. In fact, the first time I submitted Mindwalker, they rejected it and sent a lot of useful stuff about how to improve it. Resubmitted a year (and several drafts) later and it won the February contest and is now in the pool for the yearly contest. My pilot won the TV pilot category in Feb. 2016 and they recorded a table read with professional actors. So far, only about 180 views on youtube, but I've been contacted by a production company, they asked to send both the table read script as well as one of my earlier TV pilots as well as series bibles etc. That's one seemingly serious contact after a week, more than I got out of The Blacklist, which cost almost 10 times as much as Wildsound. I've also enlisted my two shorts from STS at the wildsound short < 10 pages contest for (I think) 10$ a script now, curious to see where they'll end up. Also close to finishing the writing work for the first season of the TV show I'm writing for, so hopefully will have more time for my own scripts soon again.

Wildsound is great. I've had one table read from them and another they did reject but I got some great feedback notes. I'll definately consider using them again in the future.