Cobb Hill Massacres (full length) by Gregory J. Baldwin (Greg) - Drama, Historical Thriller - Many men lost their lives in the Cobb Hill steel mill during the 1930s and 40s, and now a dispirited detective is determined to find out why.  As he interviews the ringleader of the operation, he learns of the political coverup of the atomic bomb which rises the question: What would have happened if Hitler got the bomb? 148 pages - pdf, format

Haha this is what I wake up to.

So here it is, the feature length of CHM.  I guess now I'd classify the short as sort of a "teaser trailer."  As I've said before, it's alot different than the short but still builds off the general ideas.

And a special thanks goes out to Martin Lancaster, Mike Shelton and RobbieNewcomer for their help while writing this.

Hope you enjoy..

Now I'm gonna go puke.  Never eat Jack in the Box...oh boy.

I'm going to read this, since I remember liking the short. For some reason I thought this one was already up so I printed it out for my weekend read and realized to late, it was still the short I had printed.

I'll give it a read also.

I was feeling pretty lazy this afternoon.  It was kinda' like "mow the lawn or read this long-ass script?"  You see who won.  I'll tell you right now the main thing I'm looking for is cuts.  Let's see if I find any.

Comments as I go, with SPOILERS:


*  Technical Stuff:  You are not using CUT TO: between scenes, which is correct.  But I do double-space for a new slug when we are going somewhere else, just to help make it clear.  You can see what I mean on page one, when we go from the skull to New York, but this holds true throughout.  And where are the page numbers?
*  I don't think our tough detective Xavier should shriek at the sight of a rat.  And when Xavier doesn't answer the phone, "several" rings is too long to just have him sitting there.  The machine should pick up after the second ring.  And hey -- it's Balt's answering machine haha!
*  Boris calls him "Seed?"  Is he supposed to be talking with an accent?  Wasn't this discussed about a month back?  I think it was pretty much decided that you must tell us this up front.  Just once, though.
*  "Bessemer converters"?  You did research!  Good for you.  A story always gains a measure of credibility for me when you can spot an author who did a little footwork on their subject. I wish more people would do that.
*  Does the dialogue have to read Choco Bo Joe every time?  Isn't Choco enough?  That's what you use in the descriptions.  And then everybody calls him "Joe" anyway.  Pick something consistent and go with it.  
*  Page 59 or so:  You set it up well enough that everybody has problems with Sid and Emily growing closer, but then in the office -- they just sit around and let Sidney spill the beans to her about everything?  Choco of all people should protest, and that could even help to widen the schism you are already trying to establish between Sid and Choco.
*  On page 73, this is the second time Emily uses the phrase "village whore."  Consider having her use a different phrase this time instead of repeating herself.  But your having Emily turn to "the dark side" is effective, and it occurs at the right time, storywise.
*  When the plane takes off, Eggs should bitch at Choco for doing those stunts.
*  On page 104 you say viscous punches when it should be vicious.  So whose typo is that, anyway haha?  Viscous is the right word on page 133, though.
*  Some parentheticals are messed up on pages 119 and 120.
*  Who the fuck is Earwax?  Did you forget to introduce him earlier or something?
*  Choco's plane flight has a real nice 9/11 vibe without referencing that event explicitly.  It helps make this story feel timely despite its being set in the past.  Good job if this was intentional.  And what happens with the bomb is perfect.
*  That final super at the very, very end is kind of strange.  Even if you explained to me why it's there, I am still not sure something like that belongs in a spec script.  Maybe on the title page if it's something really important to you.

Some broader comments now:

We don't get to actually root for Sidney until very late in the story, and that's a bit of a problem.  We don't really like anybody in that mill, you know?  Even his growing affection for Emily seems more selfish than anything.  Is there some way we could like Sid a little more earlier in the story?

As to the bomb itself, there was a lot of uncertainty at the time as to whether or not the bomb would actually work, yet these guys act as if it's a forgone conclusion.  You can add a little tension to the proceedings if you make these guys a little less sure the bomb would even work.  They can still be confident, but introduce a little unease, too, and exploit it for dramatic effect.

I also want to complain about your logline.  "What if Hitler had the bomb?" you ask.  That gives away far too much of the surprise you could give the reader when your story eventually veers off in this direction.  Just because it is kind of "spoiled" by the short script, don't just assume everybody has read that.  I say keep it a complete mystery as to what might be going on at the mill, and hold this reveal closer to the chest until you spring it later.

The flashbacks are handled smoothly, and were integrated into the story well.  But here is where I would make some cuts.  Around page 60 or so I started thinking maybe we were returning to the hospital room too often, and it interrupted the flow of the real story you were trying to tell.  Some movies told primarily by flashback have only two "real time" scenes -- at the very beginning, then again at the very end -- kind of like bookends.  I'm not saying to do that, but maybe consider coming back from the flashback a little less often.

But other than that, most of what is there does serve to move the story.  There is really nothing obvious to trim, and I am impressed with how you managed to flesh out your short with what amounts to a nice, solid, feature.  And taken as a whole, the story works really well and feels very fresh.

I still say trim this up somehow, but it is splendid work for a first draft.

Hey Greg, got a couple of comments about this one, with

*SPOILERS*

Flashbacks can be an effective tool when used correctly, but in a script which has so many of them I couldn’t help wondering if you shouldn’t have started your story earlier. By ‘earlier’ I mean when Sidney was young.

The meat of your story is in the past events described in the flashbacks, not in Xavier’s subplot. You spend the first 17 pages with Xavier yet your script doesn’t benefit at all with this character and his story.

What is at stake in Xavier’s search? In most thrillers, the detective character must solve the case or something bad will happen (the serial killer will kill another victim, the detective could loose his job, or be accused himself of the crime, etc). Xavier’s investigation is missing the ‘or else’ factor.

What is the conflict in Xavier’s search? Who’s the antagonist? Who is actively trying to stop Xavier from reaching his goal? (discovering the truth). He doesn’t have any opposition in his quest. He only does a quick google, and then interrogates an old man who gladly tells him all the story.

Now take a look at the Cob Hill story. You’ve got murders, secrets, fights, treason: you’ve got conflict here. I would suggest to eliminate entirely Xavier’s subplot and start the script with the mill up and running. You’ll have a much stronger first act that way.

If you want to keep the detective side of your story, and have the audience find out about the Cob Hill mystery as the detective character does, I would suggest to choose another ‘detective’ character:
-Someone from the past (maybe an outside villager)
-Who has something big at stake in his search for the truth (the guys from the mill might kill him)
-With a strong motivation for wanting to know what’s happening inside there (i.e. a relative he presumes was killed in the mill instead of Xavier’s simple curiosity).
-Who could have active opposition (antagonist force) during the ‘investigation’ (the guys from the mill want to cover up what’s happening there at any cost).

Furthermore, Xavier’s subplot kills the suspense of many of your main flashback scenes. When Sid faces Choco (both times) we know that nothing will happen to him because he’s the one alive and kicking telling us the story from the hospital.

If you loose Xavier scenes, that will surely help you to reduce the page count of this script. I guess you’ve heard about the 90-120 page range with seems to be a fairly accepted one in the industry.

Loosing the INSERTS and BACK TO SCENE’S will surely help as well to loose some pages. You can perfectly describe the content of a document, sign or newspaper, without camera directions, which are usually frowned upon by the way.

Some more notes I made along the way:
The Spanish bit you’ve got in P.4 should look like this: ‘Bueno, muchacho. ¿Por qué no me da comida para doce días? Quiero dos tacos con mucha salsa y también necesito agua mineral para tres personas’

Bert already mentioned something about this. The scene where Sidney tells everything to Emily seems a bit odd. By doing this he’s giving the rest of the gang more reasons to want Emily dead (now she knows fully the forbidden secret). He should do this in private.

How could Sid possibly convince the Germans to pay 4 million what’s-their-name for a weapon they couldn’t know if works or not?

I agree with Bert about trying to make Sid a little more likeable.

Some of Xavier’s questions seem more like an interview than an investigation (i.e. Do you regret accepting the job?).

There were some positives aspects as well. Tight descriptions, good format, realistic dialogue with some witty lines. The script shows you did proper research of the subject, and such subject is an interesting one. I just focused more on the negative because that’s what’s usually helps to improve.

Nothing more to add. I hope some of these notes may be of help.

Ok, here we go.  Doing the write as I read thing, so here are some random observations before I comment on things as a whole.

I only remember the general storyline from the short, so I may be repeating some comments from then.  If I do and you remember them, just pay no mind

I notice right off the bat that your text looks darker than mine when I convert to pdf, yet it doesn't seem dark enough to be bold.  How do you manage this, or is actually bold?

I see you kept that pathetic likeability line.  Tsk Tsk Tsk.  Actually while I'm here, I'll say the speech impediment line could be suspect as well, since we'll learn about his stuttering about two seconds after he arrives.

I remember you saying something about envisioning Sid Haig as Sid.  I'm kinda stuck in that frame of mind myself, but I do think it fits.

I agree with the comment above about Choco Bo Joe.  He could be just Choco.

Xavier's "Eureka, you WERE behind the Cobb Hill Massacres", followed by Sid's "Shut up, dumbass", or some variation thereof seem to be a running gag.

Sweet.  Cobb Hill has a Fight Club chapter.

Pg. 56.  On the devil?

Choco won't fight but he'll stab a man in the ass.  Might I add your description of the blood and crap stained knife is top notch, revealing Jimmy's fatal flaw of not properly wiping his ass.  Ok, I'm putting comedy into my reviews now.  I'm truly sick.

How come married is underlined?  It doesn't seem like a word to accentuate in this case.

Wolfgang and Yushi, pretty close to a couple odd names in Open Your Mind.  Did you notice this?

I'm glad you explained Sid's real name.  I remember that comment from the short.

There's got to be a better word for the bomb hitting than BOING.  I've noticed this twice.  Your subsequent descriptions say that it bounces, but I wonder if CLANG or something wouldn't work better.

Ok, and at the end, which is basically the same as the short, I had this revelation.  Shouldn't Xavier have a gun to shoot his way out of the shed?  He is a detective after all.  Ok, that's notpicky.

And the last in memorium Super.  Is that something personal, or a person tyou based your research on?

On the whole, I enjoyed this much more than the short, which I enjoyed immensely.  The reason being that you've taken everything from it, and not only fleshed it out, but went into further detail to keep it flowing nicely.

People may be spooked by the length, but this read pretty fast actually, more like 120 page script would, and I can't even recommend anything to be taken out.  In fact, I'd say don't trim it at all, since a film like this can stand that length anyway.

I thought I saw someone comment on making Sid more likeable.  I think he's fine just the way he is.  In his earlier years, he's a hardass, but does have a sympathetic side to a point, and his codginess at 106 can easily be attributed to old age.

This is just overall good, Greg.  So much so, that I may have my wife take a look at it.  She majored in History in college, and I think she'd enjoy a historically based screenplay, and since my only idea for somethign along those lines is WAY off, I'll point her here.

Thanks everyone for the reads and reviews.  Just a couple thingies here

*The font is 12 point Courier.  Mike, your scripts are in New Courier I believe which makes them look different in PDF.  I did temporarily have this in New Courier but it came out to 171 pages.

*Earwax is a guy I added in late.  Originally he made his only appearance on page like 130 or something but I slipped him in a bit earlier and forgot to add the intro.

*Nash is pathetically likeable.  Har!  

*A good question is why would the Germans pay 4 million for the bomb if they don't even know if it will work.  At the time that Choco dropped the bomb, the Germans were already discussing an atomic weapon of their own.  There can be parallels drawn from their scientists to the scientists who developed the weapon for America(you had several top notch scientists including Einstein and Oppenheimer).  It was a gamble, no question, but then again so was the attack on Pearl Harbor.

*The end super is for my grandfather.  He passed away when I was in the middle of this.  In a future draft I'll probably take it out.

*Regarding the "Seed" thing.  I got several answers, including you mention it the first time we see him or you can just include "Seed" in the dialogue.

So again, thank you for taking the time to check it out.  I guess I'm kinda bummed that I couldn't wow anyone but maybe some other time.  I do have a question for those who did read the short: Was it worth it?  Was it worth the 6 months?  Was it worth the expansion?  

Again, thanks a bunch

Quoted from greg *The font is 12 point Courier.  Mike, your scripts are in New Courier I believe which makes them look different in PDF.  I did temporarily have this in New Courier but it came out to 171 pages.

Yes I generally use new courier, but I had no idea that it would make your script longer, let alone by 15%.  Is that always the case?

Sorry if I'm going off a little bit here, but that's really peaked my curiousity.

I assumed it was.  Courier New will make your font lighter and spreads out the text so it appears neater.  Try changing your scripts from Courier New to regular and they'll probably come out shorter.

Hmm.  Just switched two scripts and the text does look more compressed, but no change in the page count.  Weird.

Jesus Christ that was long...
SPOILERS
In the Jimmy Joe scene (Jimmy Joe getting the kinfe in the butt), you describe with words like "ass" and "crap" ( a visual I did not need after eating lunch). Generally, using slang-ish words like that in descriptions is a no-no. You also described the basement as a "craphole".

A good thing is most of the workers had a personailty (specifically Joe, Sid and Otto).

How did the information leak out? Surely Boris wouldn't have told anyone.

Do atomic bombs bounce? I had no idea. And if the atomic bombs had just been invented, how come the people on the street knew it was a bomb? ("why aren;t we dead?"). To them, it would have just looked like a big metal object, not necisarilly a bomb.

Your strong point was your plot and characters. I've never read such a long script so intently before. It took me nearly two days to read it, but I really liked it.

The ending wasnt much of a shock as I have read the short, but it was very good.

This is one of the most interesting reads on the site.

10/10

Hi Ben, thanks for reading!

In response to some of your stuff:

Quoted Text In the Jimmy Joe scene (Jimmy Joe getting the kinfe in the butt), you describe with words like "ass" and "crap" ( a visual I did not need after eating lunch). Generally, using slang-ish words like that in descriptions is a no-no. You also described the basement as a "craphole".

Technically there's nothing wrong.  You do probably want to avoid slang but if it makes the description more vivid then go for it.

Quoted Text How did the information leak out? Surely Boris wouldn't have told anyone.

Plenty of stuff in those days leaked out for whatever reason.  Boris approaches Cobb Hill as if it were an abandoned mill and then suddenly all of these guys are up there in this isolated location, so suspicions can grow.  It's more of a personal opinion matter I guess.

Quoted Text Do atomic bombs bounce? I had no idea. And if the atomic bombs had just been invented, how come the people on the street knew it was a bomb? ("why aren;t we dead?"). To them, it would have just looked like a big metal object, not necisarilly a bomb.

If they fall from a high enough altitude then anything can bounce haha.  And you bring up a good point since in 1942 the bomb hadn't "officially" been invented yet.  One of the descriptions had it as a smaller version of a modern nuke which looks pretty much like a bomb, so the people on the street probably saw it as just a regular bomb or something of that sort.  At the time, Choco Bo Joe was the only one hoping for a nuclear explosion.

So thank you once again for taking the time and thank you for the feedback!  Glad you enjoyed it!

Greg,

I finally finished this one. Sorry it took me so long, but I’m a real slow reader, 148 pages takes me a looong time, especially since I tend to read everything more than just once.

I agree with everything that’s been commented on already and like Mike I can’t really see any parts of your script that seem unnecessary and should be cut out. However, if you do decide to rewrite and try to cut it down in size, I think Mr. Z’s idea seem like a good one.

SPOILERS:

Nitpicking now,

Pg 8, “His mother drops the picture on the table and sighs.” Then you write “He puts down the picture and rubs his hands together.” The picture has already been put down by his mother.

Pg 43, Sidney says to Emily that she needs to eat, because she hasn’t eaten in a good twelve hours. Emily then wolfs down the food. You may want to change that to at least twenty four hours or longer.
I often eat at 6pm, get up in the morning, forget to eat breakfast and then eat lunch at 12pm. That’s eighteen hours and I can’t say I’m starving at that point. Just me though.

Pg 48, Sidney says “On Christmas of 1919 the shooting stopped for twenty four hours.”
I thought WWI ended 1918!

Pg 81, Boris says “Chou” maybe you meant Ciao?

Pg 94, Sidney says “We make daily patrols off the coast to make sure none of them Japs are trying to attack us”. They are on the East coast right? Wouldn’t an attack by the Japanese most likely come from the West?

Pg 109, Emily informs Sidney she’s five months pregnant. I don’t know why in movies and on TV women do this. Every woman I know, including myself are incapable of keeping this secret. The guy in question will find out immediately! After that, everyone else they can think of.

Pg 121, Choco calls up Hitler. Okay, this I can buy, but I believe back then that an operator would have had to handle the call. I could be wrong, but you may want to look into it.

Pg 130, You have the Army tracking the Corsair.
I could be wrong, but I believe that radar was first invented and used in 1941 by the Brits. It was not in use anywhere in the US at that time. I think they started using it at some major airports around the end of WWII. Having the network to track an aircraft did not come into wide use until after two TWA airlines (I think) both went down in the Grand Canyon in 1954. I also think that, even if there was radar available, it would be the air traffic controller monitoring the radar, rather than the Navigator.

Pg 133, WOW! A typo! Otto pulls a knife out of a hoister! I was wondering if I would actually read a 148 pager with no obvious typos. Cool.

Pg 142, I thought it’d be a nice touch if Sidney gave the paper boy more than he had to, just because he stiffed Otto long time ago.

Pg 143, Xavier mentions a few newspaper ads, don’t you mean articles? I could just, be misunderstanding.

I remember I had a big problem with Emily falling for Sid in your short. This time I bought it, so great job there.

I think you fleshed out the short wonderfully and I for one definitely think it was worth the six months you spent on it. Great plotting, nice writing.

Now, you didn’t think I would read 148 pages and not have some sort of problem with it though, did you? ……..I hate doing this to you, but one thing stuck out like a really, really badly infected sore thumb to me. The aviation related stuff! I’m not an expert by any means, but I am married to a huge aviation buff. He’s also an Instrument rated pilot and we do own an airplane, so I feel I’ve got some merit here.

The Corsair was a mostly aircraft carrier based fighter plane, used almost exclusively by the Marines and Navy. It was not a bomber and therefore did not have a bomb bay.

A machine gun would not have been mounted under the “snout”, but under the cowling.

The wings also folded up on the Corsair to fit better on the Carrier and also to make it easier to move around. No huge hangar doors would’ve been necessary.

I also would be willing to bet that there is not one single, non suicidal pilot on this planet that goes outdoors, stares into fog and says “perfect weather for flying”. Fog is bad news! What if something were to happen? Most planes you can glide down to the ground (unless you suffer structural problems) and land somewhat safely if you loose an engine or something, but if you can’t see the ground you’re pretty much f****d. You certainly would not take a NEW plane out for its maiden flight in the fog.

You also have Choco just fire up the engine and take off. No check list? No run up?

Choco does a few somersaults at a few hundred feet up? And in the fog too? You know, I don’t even think Patti Wagstaff would try a stunt like that. You probably meant a loop or a roll, but even that would not be performed at that altitude and in the fog.

There were a few other things related to the flying, but I can’t remember right now. I would seriously suggest that you correct this and if you need any input, please don’t hesitate to ask. My husband would be ecstatic if someone had any aviation related questions  and would go out of his way to help, I mean that.

Other than that I think you did a really nice job on the story itself. Knowing that you’re still a teenager, I have to say that I am definitely impressed and I will end this by quoting myself from the Scorsese thread.

Quoted from tomson Where will you be in ten years?

Quoted Text Pg 48, Sidney says “On Christmas of 1919 the shooting stopped for twenty four hours.”I thought WWI ended 1918!

That's a typo and a big one at that

Quoted Text Pg 94, Sidney says “We make daily patrols off the coast to make sure none of them Japs are trying to attack us”. They are on the East coast right? Wouldn’t an attack by the Japanese most likely come from the West?

It's kind of an open ended deal.  An attack from the Japanese would likely come from the West, yes, but a German attack would likely come from the East if one ever happened.

And then there's all the aviation stuff.  So let me try to explain myself here.  Choco Bo Joe is a lunatic.  I mean the guy shoved a knife up a dude's ass!  You bring up very valid points with the fog and flying and all that jazz, but I think it adds to the whole craziness of Choco.  The "perfect flying weather" line is just stupid though, I agree whole heartedly.

And I wanna try to defend myself as best I can with the Corsair.  Well, I guess this is more of a question I'm proposing to you.  Would it be believable if they altered it so it could carry the bomb?  Or would it be better if they constructed a plane that already had the bomb compartment?  Would that be more realistic do you think?  I looked into the plane and found that it was developed in the late 30's and first flown in 1940 as a prototype, so maybe the steelworkers stole the plans or something.  Either way thanks a bunch for explaining that.

Anyway, thank you for taking the time to read it!  I guess the best thing I'm getting here is that the page length wasn't total murder which is a huge relief.  You see 148 and you're like ahhhh what kind of loser writes this many pages.  Whew.  

Quoted from tomson Where will you be in ten years?

It's a very nice thought...but probably back here haha.

Thanks   I'll be looking forward to seeing some more of your work. I hope it's as provactive as "Be My Valentine"!

Quoted from greg Choco Bo Joe is a lunatic.  I mean the guy shoved a knife up a dude's ass!  You bring up very valid points with the fog and flying and all that jazz, but I think it adds to the whole craziness of Choco.

Even if he's a complete idiot he would never survive the flight. I'm sure you've flown in an airplane at some point and probably above some clouds. They look like a giant soft down blanket. Fog is just a cloud that's on the ground instead of up in the sky. Imagine you're flying and looking down at that fluffy blanket, then try to decide where you're going to land. Impossible!

Quoted from greg And I wanna try to defend myself as best I can with the Corsair.  Well, I guess this is more of a question I'm proposing to you.  Would it be believable if they altered it so it could carry the bomb?  Or would it be better if they constructed a plane that already had the bomb compartment?  Would that be more realistic do you think?  I looked into the plane and found that it was developed in the late 30's and first flown in 1940 as a prototype, so maybe the steelworkers stole the plans or something.

I will check with my in house expert and I'll get back with you on that. He'll be thrilled to be asked.

Quoted from greg I'll be looking forward to seeing some more of your work. I hope it's as provactive as "Be My Valentine"!

That one has been revised and will be posted again.
Provocative?...........Nah, it read like a bedtime story.

Greg,

Did a little checking for you regarding the aviation stuff on your story. It gets tricky, so I don’t know if you want to change things or just stick with what you have. This is what he told me.

All nukes back then were big, even “Little Boy”, but more importantly they were really heavy. Therefore you can not just hang one under a plane, since most of them don’t have any hard points. Possibly, you could use one of the Navy’s torpedo bombers. The only planes with bomb bays were bombers apparently and those could not be flown by one pilot, but needed a whole crew.

He had a suggestion that may not be as sexy as an airplane, but it would have been believable back then and that would be to use a blimp. They would not have aroused suspicion and they can carry heavy loads.

Any other questions, just ask.

Hi Pia Tomson,

Thanks for checking that out!  I guess it's back to the drawing boards unless I can figure out a way to get around the physics.  I like that idea though of a blimp.  It's not as sexy, true, but you may be on to something there.  Maybe associate the Nazi involvement with the bomb to the Hindenburg.  I don't know.  I think that was a zeppelin anyway.

Well, this gets the creative juices flowing!  Thank you again for taking the time