Quoted from Scar Tissue Films Fucking hello mate, it's a script, not a life saving operation.

Yeah okay...and this is a "screenwriting website, not the Red Cross.  Don't get me wrong, as I said before the writing is good but the formatting is obviously off-kilter.  I asked a simple question, pointed out an error, and now I'm getting flack for it.  
Go figure.  

Quoted from screenrider It "might have" been messed up. ...No, it's "definitely" messed up.   I'm not trying to make waves but considering that Thief was written by some of SS's top screenwriters, it suprises me that you all would see this major formatting error as even being close to acceptable.

This probably had a lot to do with the import of text files into Final Draft.  None of us did notice it but that was probably because we had other issues on our minds like were all the characters names consistent or did FD import the action into dialogue - things that would have really affected the read.  Thanks for pointing it out and we'll be sure to correct it in the next draft.  

Hey guys,

I skimmed over the Thief threads a few times but only had a vague idea of what you guys were really doing. I didn’t think I’d see an honest to God script show up anytime soon.

Anyway, you guys have obviously been working hard on this for a long time and it shows. Not just in the writing but the actual universe. Everything feels like real life. A lot of people strive for this kind of realism in their scripts and some find success on some level but this is exceptional. I gather this is because everyone was responsible for different characters so when the characters interact, it’s essentially different writers interacting as well. This is the most successful element of the script but, ironically, also the most hurtful.

The story, that is, the reality TV show, the missing ring, the RV, etc. It’s staged. I don’t mean that in a bad way. I mean that part of the script is very obviously the movie world. The character interactions are the reality and this is what made the script something of a challenge for me. It reminded me too much of the worst of high school. An endless shit show of drama and bullshit.

For the most part, this is what the script felt like to me. It was extremely well written and the characters were all well-developed but I didn’t care about many of them. I hated a good handful. They were all either drama queens or douchebags and phony to boot. Many of them didn’t feel like old friends at all yet they were supposed to be so all the “I love you’s” felt like dribble to me as did the ending. I totally appreciate the whole “you-can’t-always-get-what-you-want-in-life-but-sometimes-you-can-still-get-something-good” angle (does that make sense?). After all, it’s much more true to life. But many of the characters treat each other so terribly prior to the conclusion that it just fell flat for me.

The only characters I cared about were Darnell and Francesca. I suppose Cherry was alright as well. After a certain point in the script (which I won’t mention to avoid major spoilers), one of them dropped off my good list (I’m sure you can figure out which one). Towards the end, Jimmy comes off and is referred to as a peacemaker. He seems on the level then but earlier on, not so much. Once again, all the characters were well written but as far as sympathy goes... they didn’t have mine. Johnny especially was too much of a shit show for me, which is too bad because his plight is an extremely sympathetic one.

So what can I say? I feel really bad having to put this one down. You guys have been working so long on it, it’s practically review proof. But everyone here knows that honesty is what counts in the end. Personally, this felt like a sharper, more interesting and more realistic version of Degrassi... but still Degrassi. I’ll let you guys take that as you will.

I won’t leave this review without mentioning things I liked. As I’ve already said... well written. But aside from that, I liked Darnell’s character a lot. One of the only realistic party animals I’ve read or seen in any script/movie and made for a lot of fun. Roddy in makeup was funny, especially when he jumps in the pool and it starts to run. I liked the paintball game. Although this wasn’t a crowd I felt like I wanted to be with, the twists were pretty sharp and really upped the tension and at the end of it all, it seemed like a pretty eventful night. And finally, I thought the dialogue was superb. Very realistic and completely non-stereotypical as far as the characters were concerned.

Some notes...

pg. 36 - “Darnell opens his eyes and stares at Cherry.” Action, not dialogue.

pg. 47 - BRAD should be in V.O., not O.S.

- Hold-cold therapy is exactly that: hot then cold. The reverse, I can’t imagine, would sober anybody up. I can say from experience that hot tubs make intoxication worse once the person gets out of the hot water.

- Why would Johnny come out of hiding with his pants down? That is to say, what made him think it’d be a good idea?

pg. 82 - "AIDS,” not “AIDs.”

pg. 95 - "She gives him a kiss.” Action, not dialogue.

pg. 110 - "Pointing the [what?] with the key...”

At the end of the day, I think you guys totally accomplished what you set out to do... it just wasn’t my cup of tea.

Quoted from James McClung Anyway, you guys have obviously been working hard on this for a long time and it shows. Not just in the writing but the actual universe. Everything feels like real life. A lot of people strive for this kind of realism in their scripts and some find success on some level but this is exceptional.

James, I can tell you that it felt completely real to me and when it ended, I actually felt lonely and sad.

Quoted from James McClung I gather this is because everyone was responsible for different characters so when the characters interact, it’s essentially different writers interacting as well. This is the most successful element of the script but, ironically, also the most hurtful.

I think that balancing character and story is a very difficult task and there are so many precarious tightropes we need to learn to walk in that regard.

Quoted from James McClung The story, that is, the reality TV show, the missing ring, the RV, etc. It’s staged. I don’t mean that in a bad way. I mean that part of the script is very obviously the movie world. The character interactions are the reality and this is what made the script something of a challenge for me. It reminded me too much of the worst of high school. An endless shit show of drama and bullshit.

That is completely correct. This group is nothing but a bunch of liars and thieves. Gabriel and Jeana, the worst of the bunch. Complete instigators and so screwed up that half the time they don't know whether they're acting or actually being themselves.

Quoted from James McClung For the most part, this is what the script felt like to me. It was extremely well written and the characters were all well-developed but I didn’t care about many of them. I hated a good handful. They were all either drama queens or douchebags and phony to boot. Many of them didn’t feel like old friends at all yet they were supposed to be so all the “I love you’s” felt like dribble to me as did the ending. I totally appreciate the whole “you-can’t-always-get-what-you-want-in-life-but-sometimes-you-can-still-get-something-good” angle (does that make sense?). After all, it’s much more true to life. But many of the characters treat each other so terribly prior to the conclusion that it just fell flat for me.

I'm actually glad that you didn't like or have sympathy for most of the characters. Jeana's character was written up to be a bitch, but in reality, I had believed that both she and Gabriel were always trying to bring the best out in people by causing them to react to their situations and be proactive. This is why Gabriel went down on Frances, when he was still a man. Not because Gabriel himself was bi-sexual, but because he wanted to bring Frances out of himself and accept who he was.

Cherry was always overly sympathetic, whereas Jeana was the opposite. She believes that strength of character comes from difficulties and not by being coddled by over-sympathetic numbskulls.

Quoted from James McClung The only characters I cared about were Darnell and Francesca. I suppose Cherry was alright as well. After a certain point in the script (which I won’t mention to avoid major spoilers), one of them dropped off my good list (I’m sure you can figure out which one). Towards the end, Jimmy comes off and is referred to as a peacemaker. He seems on the level then but earlier on, not so much. Once again, all the characters were well written but as far as sympathy goes... they didn’t have mine. Johnny especially was too much of a shit show for me, which is too bad because his plight is an extremely sympathetic one.

This is actually good news for me because that's what I had intended; however, if we need to make these characters more likable, then we need to show their positive aspects and I can assure you, they do have positive aspects. We should discuss that in the future.

Thank you so very much for the review, James.

I'll definitely be giving your comments lots of thought. Logan or no Logan.  

Sandra

Quoted from James McClung Hey guys, I skimmed over the Thief threads a few times but only had a vague idea of what you guys were really doing. I didn’t think I’d see an honest to God script show up anytime soon. Anyway, you guys have obviously been working hard on this for a long time and it shows. Not just in the writing but the actual universe. Everything feels like real life. A lot of people strive for this kind of realism in their scripts and some find success on some level but this is exceptional. I gather this is because everyone was responsible for different characters so when the characters interact, it’s essentially different writers interacting as well. This is the most successful element of the script but, ironically, also the most hurtful. Each person brought a character to the table and then each of those characters were recrafted by each author - the result was we all knew the characters enough to manipulate their lives.  And I glad that shows. Many of them didn’t feel like old friends at all yet they were supposed to be so all the “I love you’s” felt like dribble to me as did the ending. This is really interesting because this is one of the issues we had up front that we had to live with because it was never going to get resolved.   Exactly why are these people friends.   It actually all boils down to one summer they spent together and a party at Roddy's.   This is never discussed in the script but if you read the character bios you will see it.  And of course some of them are more of friends than others.   The only characters I cared about were Darnell and Francesca. I suppose Cherry was alright as well. After a certain point in the script (which I won’t mention to avoid major spoilers), one of them dropped off my good list (I’m sure you can figure out which one). Towards the end, Jimmy comes off and is referred to as a peacemaker. He seems on the level then but earlier on, not so much. Once again, all the characters were well written but as far as sympathy goes... they didn’t have mine. Johnny especially was too much of a shit show for me, which is too bad because his plight is an extremely sympathetic one. Personally, if looking at a classical structure, I think Johnny is the fool in this situation or Gilligan.  Jimmy is the Professor.  Gabriel and Jeanna are Mr and Mrs Howell.  Francesca is Ginger.  Cherry is Mary Anne.  And Burner is the Skipper - that leaves Darnell but he can be the special guest star. Anyway, Jimmy is meant to be suspicious.   If you were to read the bios a lot of the characters think he's a pederast.      So what can I say? I feel really bad having to put this one down. You guys have been working so long on it, it’s practically review proof. But everyone here knows that honesty is what counts in the end. Personally, this felt like a sharper, more interesting and more realistic version of Degrassi... but still Degrassi. I’ll let you guys take that as you will. No that was cool.  Thanks for reading and giving feedback.  There's no doubt it needs work to make it work well but at this point we aren't going to get any further with it without feedback. I won’t leave this review without mentioning things I liked. As I’ve already said... well written. But aside from that, I liked Darnell’s character a lot. One of the only realistic party animals I’ve read or seen in any script/movie and made for a lot of fun. Roddy in makeup was funny, especially when he jumps in the pool and it starts to run. I liked the paintball game. Although this wasn’t a crowd I felt like I wanted to be with, the twists were pretty sharp and really upped the tension and at the end of it all, it seemed like a pretty eventful night. And finally, I thought the dialogue was superb. Very realistic and completely non-stereotypical as far as the characters were concerned. Some notes... Thanks for the technical notes. Importing caused some of the actions to end up in dialogue and we tried to catch them all but obviously missed some.

Quoted from mcornetto Personally, if looking at a classical structure, I think Johnny is the fool in this situation or Gilligan.  Jimmy is the Professor.  Gabriel and Jeanna are Mr and Mrs Howell.  Francesca is Ginger.  Cherry is Mary Anne.  And Burner is the Skipper - that leaves Darnell but he can be the special guest star.

I enjoyed reading your take on the characters. I think the question of a kind of superficiality between Jeana and Gabriel and the other characters definitely exists. They seem to be so caught up with themselves that they fail to acknowledge the others much of the time.

Mr. and Mrs. Howell were much more harmless I think. I've always seen Gabriel and Jeana as antagonists, indeed, the whole lot of them I think are, but Gabriel and Jeana are the worst.

If Jimmy is The Professor, I think he's got competition from Frances/Francesca. I think that Jimmy is more of a psychologist and Frances is more The Professor. These two are definitely the brains of the bunch.

I think Darnell definitely has brains too, but he's so wasted all of the time that he hardly uses them. Maybe he might find a way yet.

Sandra

Quoted from Sandra Elstree. I enjoyed reading your take on the characters. I think the question of a kind of superficiality between Jeana and Gabriel and the other characters definitely exists. They seem to be so caught up with themselves that they fail to acknowledge the others much of the time. Mr. and Mrs. Howell were much more harmless I think. I've always seen Gabriel and Jeana as antagonists, indeed, the whole lot of them I think are, but Gabriel and Jeana are the worst. Mr. and Mrs. Howell were always scheming and conniving and trying to get everyone to do their bidding.  They were also better than everyone else.  I see these qualities in Jeana and Gabriel which would be La Signora and Pantalone in Commedia. If Jimmy is The Professor, I think he's got competition from Frances. I think that Jimmy is more of a psychologist and Frances is more The Professor. These two are definitely the brains of the bunch. Now wait a minute.  Are you saying Ginger didn't have brains?   She was probably one of the smartest of the bunch.  I think she is based on Columbina in Commedia. I think Darnell definitely has brains too, but he's so wasted all of the time that he hardly uses them. Maybe he might find a way yet. Sandra

Quoted from mcornetto Now wait a minute.  Are you saying Ginger didn't have brains?   She was probably one of the smartest of the bunch.  I think she is based on Columbina in Commedia.

In Thief, most definitely Francesca and Jimmy are more the brainy sorts.

In Gilligan's island, I never saw Ginger as a brainy sort of individual, but rather I saw her portrayed as a beauty who cared a lot about presentation.

Perhaps I never noticed the brains so much because her beauty overshadowed it.

Sandra

Hi Michael, Sandra, Thomas, and Gary,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this didn't work for me.  Like at all.  The gift and the curse of having multiple writers is that it brings in multiple talents and insights, but in this case, the script's flow felt very divided to me, so much so that I got frustrated reading at certain parts, which I'll explain.  I commend you guys for being able to collaborate on something like this from four corners of the earth, but IMO it needs retooling.

The first 40 pages or so I felt worked.  While the conflict was slow to show itself, I felt it was an interesting story brewing, realistic, nice style, and, likewise, I anticipated a big payoff.  There's a lot of characters to keep track of, but it was done with ease.  Everyone had their different personalities which made them easy to follow.  However, after page 40 it seemed everything just changed.  There was a 20 page block in there where it seemed like nothing happened.  At all.  I don't get the point of the RV.  A big RV shows up outside with Jeana dressed as a Muslim to generate a reaction?  What did I miss?  When the RV showed up it felt like the story just stopped and everyone was making observations about nothing.  Through the 50s and into page 63 I felt very frustrated as I had no idea what was going on.

While I feel the characters started out well, they took a pretty steep nosedive as the story went on.  The problem is that these people are 28, right?  It's a high school reunion but it seemed as if they had never graduated.  Basically it didn't seem like anything had changed with these people between the 10 years that they went without seeing each other.  Darnell is still a druggie loser, Jimmy's still Jimmy, and Cherry still gets around.  In the span of 24 hours she was all over Jimmy, turned Johnny's proposal down, 5 minutes later made out with Roddy and wound up leaving with him.  Roddy lost his sobriety in the blink of an eye.  Darnell was horribly annoying and the drug humor didn't work.  At times it was just hard to believe that these people had grown up at all.  Nothing had changed from high school.  The best characters were, ironically, the ones that everyone thought were weird in Francesca and Johnny.  I felt they were the most rounded, realistic, and brought the most to the table, so kudos on them.  Everyone else, though, became thin on personality and content as the story went on.  I'm not sure there's enough backstory on these people.  What were most of these people like in high school?  We know a little bit about Frances, but what about Gabe?  He's bi(I think. Read notes), but what else?  I just didn't feel like anybody was any different now than they were 10 years ago and they didn't feel any different at the end than they did in the beginning of the story.

As I said up front, the first 40 pages I felt were okay despite the fact that we don't really know what conflict is going to unfold and who's the good guy or the bad guy.  When everything did unfold I felt let down.  Johnny getting his engagement ring to Cherry stolen is good.  Could have been a series of giant conflicts built on top of that.  But there wasn't.  I think he got it back within 20 pages and that was the end of that issue.  The RV, again, I didn't really get.  Then the big twist of Gabriel trying to get footage for a reality show.  Again, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it didn't work for me.  First and foremost, there's no way he had enough footage for a 10 show series.  Second, there's not enough conflict to make for an interesting reality series anyway.  Yeah, there's some making out, some people get shot with paintball guns, and someone is dressed up like a Muslim, but for a reality show?  It'll make a 30 minute special, but a series?  I don't see Gabriel's aspirations paying off.

I'm not going to say that this story doesn't work at all; I think any story can work if it's tooled up enough.  But as of right now I struggled mightily to get through this.  Having multiple conflicts going on in this house is a fine idea, but they need more beef to them and the payoff needs to be more developed.  Discovering that this was all for a reality show wasn't out of left field, but rather it was out of the street behind the ballpark.  It wasn't a shocker, it just made me go...what...

There's also a few typos throughout and formatting gaffes(in the notes).

So, again, I hate to deliver bad news, but this didn't work for me at all.  After 40 pages I felt the story whirlwinded all over the place and there wasn't enough going on to really care about what the outcomes were.  I once more commend you on collaborating on a feature screenplay, so I'm sure putting your minds together can brew up something much improved because I know you're all good at what you do.  I hope some of my comments come in handy.  If you have any questions, please feel free to let me know.

-Notes-

*Great opening description haha
*12 - wait...so Francesca WAS Frances, right? Yeah, when he/she goes "Shh...it" it says Francesca, so I got a little confused as to who's in that scene.  
*27 - Gabe's bi, right?
*27 - I'm not really feeling the drug gags at this point
*27 - Can't really buy Roddy's sudden decision to break his sobriety
*31 - Nice Seinfeld reference!
*36 - Cherry: For being the best...plus some description that shouldn't be there
*46 - Jean should be Jeana
*50 - At this point I really am not sure where this is going and the past 5 pages or so there's been a lot of stuff going on that isn't making much sense to me. Stay tuned...
*63 - I'm frustrated at this point.  What's going on here?  I don't get the big deal with the RV and right now it's just people sitting around making little observations.  I really don't feel the story moving along at this point.  Stay tuned...
*65 - Johnny: "I wouldn't marry you if you were the last man on earth!" Unless Johnny is bi, which there's no indication of up to this point, this seems very strange and out of place.
*84 - Cherry gets around, doesn't she?
*85 - There really needs to be more conflict and drama if they're wanting to produce 10 shows

-Greg

Quoted from greg Hi Michael, Sandra, Thomas, and Gary, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this didn't work for me.  Like at all.  The gift and the curse of having multiple writers is that it brings in multiple talents and insights, but in this case, the script's flow felt very divided to me, so much so that I got frustrated reading at certain parts, which I'll explain.  I commend you guys for being able to collaborate on something like this from four corners of the earth, but IMO it needs retooling.

I think so too.

Greg, it's really getting late here right now and I've got appointments I need to keep tomorrow, but I'll try and respond better tomorrow.

Thank you so much for taking your time,

Sandra

Quoted from greg Hi Michael, Sandra, Thomas, and Gary, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this didn't work for me.  Like at all.  The gift and the curse of having multiple writers is that it brings in multiple talents and insights, but in this case, the script's flow felt very divided to me, so much so that I got frustrated reading at certain parts, which I'll explain.  I commend you guys for being able to collaborate on something like this from four corners of the earth, but IMO it needs retooling. What makes you think what you said is bad news?  Honestly, we've been saying all along that we know it needs work - you aren't really telling us anything new here - however being that this is a multi-person script and unless we get some feedback on what doesn't work for people, no one and I mean no one is going to to take kindly to removing their touches from it. The first 40 pages or so I felt worked.  While the conflict was slow to show itself, I felt it was an interesting story brewing, realistic, nice style, and, likewise, I anticipated a big payoff.  There's a lot of characters to keep track of, but it was done with ease.  Everyone had their different personalities which made them easy to follow.  However, after page 40 it seemed everything just changed.  There was a 20 page block in there where it seemed like nothing happened.  At all.  I don't get the point of the RV.  A big RV shows up outside with Jeana dressed as a Muslim to generate a reaction?  What did I miss?  When the RV showed up it felt like the story just stopped and everyone was making observations about nothing.  Through the 50s and into page 63 I felt very frustrated as I had no idea what was going on. Ok. The RV.  Someone introduced it at that point and we went with it.   The point is, or at least the point we were trying to make was that Jeanna was attempting to create a more dramatic environment for the show.  That isn't what the RV was about when it was introduced but that's what it became about.  You don't even what to go where we discuss what it was about to begin with, so don't ask. While I feel the characters started out well, they took a pretty steep nosedive as the story went on.  The problem is that these people are 28, right?  It's a high school reunion but it seemed as if they had never graduated.  Basically it didn't seem like anything had changed with these people between the 10 years that they went without seeing each other.  Darnell is still a druggie loser, Jimmy's still Jimmy, and Cherry still gets around.  In the span of 24 hours she was all over Jimmy, turned Johnny's proposal down, 5 minutes later made out with Roddy and wound up leaving with him.  Roddy lost his sobriety in the blink of an eye.  Darnell was horribly annoying and the drug humor didn't work.  At times it was just hard to believe that these people had grown up at all.  Nothing had changed from high school.  The best characters were, ironically, the ones that everyone thought were weird in Francesca and Johnny.  I felt they were the most rounded, realistic, and brought the most to the table, so kudos on them.  Everyone else, though, became thin on personality and content as the story went on.  I'm not sure there's enough backstory on these people.  What were most of these people like in high school?  We know a little bit about Frances, but what about Gabe?  He's bi(I think. Read notes), but what else?  I just didn't feel like anybody was any different now than they were 10 years ago and they didn't feel any different at the end than they did in the beginning of the story. There's a lot of bio on the characters.  If you are interested see http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-collaborate/m-1252589127/ There probably should be a bit more back story in the script, it's probably something we'll look at adding in the next draft. As I said up front, the first 40 pages I felt were okay despite the fact that we don't really know what conflict is going to unfold and who's the good guy or the bad guy.  When everything did unfold I felt let down.  Johnny getting his engagement ring to Cherry stolen is good.  Could have been a series of giant conflicts built on top of that.  But there wasn't.  I think he got it back within 20 pages and that was the end of that issue.  The RV, again, I didn't really get.  Then the big twist of Gabriel trying to get footage for a reality show.  Again, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it didn't work for me.  First and foremost, there's no way he had enough footage for a 10 show series.  Second, there's not enough conflict to make for an interesting reality series anyway.  Yeah, there's some making out, some people get shot with paintball guns, and someone is dressed up like a Muslim, but for a reality show?  It'll make a 30 minute special, but a series?  I don't see Gabriel's aspirations paying off. I'm not going to say that this story doesn't work at all; I think any story can work if it's tooled up enough.  But as of right now I struggled mightily to get through this.  Having multiple conflicts going on in this house is a fine idea, but they need more beef to them and the payoff needs to be more developed.  Discovering that this was all for a reality show wasn't out of left field, but rather it was out of the street behind the ballpark.  It wasn't a shocker, it just made me go...what... Again, the show was added as we were developing the script.  And it came out of rewrites.  I believe that the intention of the show is that it's a one shot deal - not a series.  This isn't quite spelled out but it's probably something we will look at. There's also a few typos throughout and formatting gaffes(in the notes). -Notes- Thanks for your technical notes and your feedback. And just a quick question, you say a couple of times that the drug humour didn't work for you.  Why didn't it work?  Is there a reason?

Quoted from mcornetto This probably had a lot to do with the import of text files into Final Draft.  None of us did notice it but that was probably because we had other issues on our minds like were all the characters names consistent or did FD import the action into dialogue - things that would have really affected the read.  Thanks for pointing it out and we'll be sure to correct it in the next draft.

Save it, Michael.  I'm putting a black mark on ALL of your permanent records.

Maybe next time you'll remember to space six times before sluglines.

Tsk, Tsk.

Quoted from greg I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this didn't work for me.  Like at all.  The gift and the curse of having multiple writers is that it brings in multiple talents and insights, but in this case, the script's flow felt very divided to me, so much so that I got frustrated reading at certain parts, which I'll explain.  I commend you guys for being able to collaborate on something like this from four corners of the earth, but IMO it needs retooling.

I'm almost finished with this one. Got sidetracked by a documentary.  

I do agree with Greg here. It does feel like there were a few too many cooks in the kitchen. I'm wondering if each of you had a character to write or if you all added to everything. The reason I'm asking is because some of the characters didn't seem to stay true to themselves.

Quoted from greg I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this didn't work for me.  Like at all.

The only way to find out what works is to find out what doesn't work; so it's not bad news.

Quoted from greg The first 40 pages or so I felt worked.  While the conflict was slow to show itself, I felt it was an interesting story brewing, realistic, nice style, and, likewise, I anticipated a big payoff.  There's a lot of characters to keep track of, but it was done with ease.  Everyone had their different personalities which made them easy to follow.  However, after page 40 it seemed everything just changed.  There was a 20 page block in there where it seemed like nothing happened.  At all.  I don't get the point of the RV.  A big RV shows up outside with Jeana dressed as a Muslim to generate a reaction?  What did I miss?  When the RV showed up it felt like the story just stopped and everyone was making observations about nothing.

I think that the observations about nothing comes from attempting to incorporate backstory that the reader knows nothing about. Although the back stories do exist, I don't think they exist on the pages of the script. They do exist in the bios, but there are things in the script that are a mystery otherwise. Like, although it's hinted at, I'm not sure that people are going to get Gabriel's serious financial state.

Perhaps it needs to be set up better that he's in trouble as a ship that's going down. This would increase the drama and tension that I feel this is lacking.

With regards to incorporating backstory, we only have a few ways of incorporating that.

1. Through flashback

2. Through dialogue

3. Through clever manipulations of present actions with dialogue

...That is to say, if we begin in the mansion and stay there.

If we begin earlier in time, "the way we were" style, then we could do it without a lot of flashbacks, however, that would change the principle with which this was conceived. To have this story existing almost solely inside the mansion.

A major flaw in the script, I see is the backstory that is missing on screen. As you pointed out, you felt it wasn't there and I see this too. It's there, but it's not there.

If we suddenly get a light and a sudden stroke of brilliance, we might be able to work this in very swiftly in the beginning without even using flashback. I have an idea right now and it's actually very entertaining to think about.  

So yes, this is a very good observation.

Quoted from greg While I feel the characters started out well, they took a pretty steep nosedive as the story went on.  The problem is that these people are 28, right?  It's a high school reunion but it seemed as if they had never graduated.

This is correct. They haven't changed essentially. But Frances changed into a woman. I'd say that's a pretty big change!!!  

But seriously, couldn't we nail this more visually? I think we could most definitely.

Otherwise though, these people really are very much the same. Althouooo....

Someone might now need to wear glasses or some idiosyncratic tendency, latent though it was, developed in one of them to exacerbated proportions.

What they do now though isn't necessarily clear I don't think. Hence, this is why they're coming off as completely the same.

It would be fun to show them acting in their "grown roles", "out in public", but put them together, and they're completely the hopeless ones you've just witnessed.  

I think your comments there are completely correct and we need to look at how we can work with this in the future.

Quoted from greg Darnell was horribly annoying and the drug humor didn't work.  At times it was just hard to believe that these people had grown up at all.  Nothing had changed from high school.  The best characters were, ironically, the ones that everyone thought were weird in Francesca and Johnny.

I'm sorry you didn't like Darnell. He and Roddy are two of my favorites when you put the two together. Especially when they're together. And then add Jimmy and it's another fun story that amps up again because the dynamics change I think as Roddy and Darnell bring Jimmy over to the dark side.

Quoted from greg What were most of these people like in high school?

From the graduation flashback you can see that they were a wild bunch.

Quoted from greg I just didn't feel like anybody was any different now than they were 10 years ago and they didn't feel any different at the end than they did in the beginning of the story.

Yes, you are correct. There wasn't a lot of change that happened. No dramatic character arcs where they go from one extreme to another.

Although, Johnny definitely changed. He went from not really caring a lot for Frances, the male, to loving Francesca the female. This is a very dramatic change that he went through.

Thank you so much for your comments. It's very much appreciated.  

Sandra

Hi Michael and Sandra,

Quoted from mcornetto ...however being that this is a multi-person script and unless we get some feedback on what doesn't work for people, no one and I mean no one is going to to take kindly to removing their touches from it.

Oh, I know.  Let me explain what I meant: it's the flow of the story that feels divided, meaning you can tell when one author's section ended and another's began.  Because of that, there's multiple personalities writing here and at times it feels all over the place.  Of course I wouldn't suggest removing people.  I think maybe just more revisions focused on one consistent tone could cure this problem.  Or maybe designate one writer to reword the other sections so it's just one voice speaking for the writing of four people.  Is that even possible?  I dunno.  I might be talking out of my ass with that one haha.

Quoted from mcornetto Ok. The RV.  Someone introduced it at that point and we went with it.   The point is, or at least the point we were trying to make was that Jeanna was attempting to create a more dramatic environment for the show.  That isn't what the RV was about when it was introduced but that's what it became about.

Creating a more dramatic environment for the show is a good touch, but the whole RV deal just seemed very strange for this piece.  

Quoted from mcornetto And just a quick question, you say a couple of times that the drug humour didn't work for you.  Why didn't it work?  Is there a reason?

Part of it is personal preference.  I've never found drug humor amusing mostly because it's just people acting funny rather than being funny, which is what I felt Darnell and Roddy were doing.  Again, part of it is personal preference so I'd see what others think about it.

Quoted from Sandra E. With regards to incorporating backstory, we only have a few ways of incorporating that. 1. Through flashback 2. Through dialogue 3. Through clever manipulations of present actions with dialogue

I highlighted dialogue because I thought this would be more of a talkie piece when I started reading, and I think when incorporating backstory, that's the way to go.  Have the characters talk about it.

Quoted from Sandra Elstree. From the graduation flashback you can see that they were a wild bunch.

This goes hand-in-hand with my desire for backstory.  The flashback shows them briefly in high school, but I'm talking about personality-wise what were they like so we can compare them now to how they were back then.  Of course, if nothing's changed then I guess there really doesn't need to be any revelation.

Quoted from Sandra Elstree. Although, Johnny definitely changed. He went from not really caring a lot for Frances, the male, to loving Francesca the female. This is a very dramatic change that he went through.

Indeed, and I really enjoyed his and her characters.  I felt those two had a backstory but it didn't even need to be directly told straight to your face.  It was more indirect, but I felt that I gathered a lot of information about them.

-Greg