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hi Mark, ive been floating round these boards for a few months now. Finally read your script and I really loved it.
i enjoy your writing style, concise and to the point, its very easy to read.
The logline didn't offer anything new but hey that can be fixed eventually.
i dont understand why some people have questioned the name "Sazha", its just a name.
it was difficult at the beginning to determine what kinda girl Sazha was, she was quiet and introverted but her friends talked about blowjobs etc.. I didn't really enjoy that dialogue.
I think it would be difficult to cast Sazha in this desired role. i feel for her, but Im unsure if i like her as a character.
I liked Crandell. Hes the kinda character i like to write, someone with a tragic past. Hes the guy I cheer for. I do think he died to early tho.
Didnt see the incest angle coming, shocking.
I dont agree with some people who say its TOO shocking. Yes there does seem to be a little excessive hardships going on in Sazhas life, but thats life.
i do think the whole baby-killing incident and aftermath was a bit much, too graphic,im all for gritty "real" violence but i actually think it would work better if it was toned down a bit.
good job and congrats on the Bluecat comp. Will go read your other scripts soon.
The logline didn't offer anything new but hey that can be fixed eventually.
No, it can't! I've tried and tried and came up blank! :-) I'll be the first to admit, loglines are definitely not my strength. I don't think I've ever written one that I liked.
But I am glad that the story shined through.
I think you're right. It'll be very difficult to cast Sazha in this. There's a young girl in one of my shorts that was filmed and she has the exact look I was going for, but ultimately, I think it'll all come down to how much the director wants to show on film in the end, and they'll probably cast from there. I'm assuming they won't want to show the violence onscreen, so casting a 13 year-old'll be okay. But, if they want to show a little bit, they might have to go with a very young looking 18 year old.
Quoted from Gavin
im all for gritty "real" violence but i actually think it would work better if it was toned down a bit.
I kind of wanted to go all out in the script. Knowing it's going to be watered down when filmed, I wanted as many strong images as possible to influence the scene so the brutality of what's going on is still there.
Quoted from Gavin
good job and congrats on the Bluecat comp. Will go read your other scripts soon.
Thank you. There's still a long way to go in Bluecat, but at least I'm still in the running. Thank you very much for taking a look and letting me know what you think.
I don't recognize your name in any stories I've come across recently, do you have any scripts posted on the site, yet? Let me know and I'll take a look when I can.
Hi Mark, I dont have any scripts up yet as i kinda want to earn my stripes first before expecting any reads. Trying to read and review as many scripts as I can on here. Want to become a regular member.
Just read this and gotta say...wow. Aside from the crisp writing and the clean, genuine dialogue, this story is deep, dark and very heart-wrenching. The short scenes did nicely to tie the larger, emotion-packed scenes together.
I haven't read all the comments so I'm not sure what the other reviewers touched up on but that's how you write a f***ing climax! It's really graphic among other scenes. I did read someone suggesting that Sazha's age be raised by a couple years which I agree with.
Not to take away from that powerful climax but I think, in this rare stipulation, you can direct the camera away from the act and describe only the sound. I don't think it'll take away from the grisly scene but actually enhance it's horrific tone. Maybe over black? Just a suggestion, then you can cut to the bathtub delivery. Not sure if the water in the tub was running but I think that little detail could add to that scene as well (just a tiny detail that I feel may work wonders. Mother in the living room with the shower running, faint cries through the spray.)
Like the others, I felt the incest was out of the blue. Some undertones in the dialogue between Turrell and Sazha could give some inkling. Perhaps a bit reserved or deflective when she speaks to him. Anything to suggest their relationship is out of the ordinary.
Sazha's character was very deep and complex and I could never figure her out and I mean that in the best way possible. A very difficult feat to capture IMO so I give you props.
All in all a riveting tale that won't soon be forgotten. Awesome story, Mark.
Not to take away from that powerful climax but I think, in this rare stipulation, you can direct the camera away from the act and describe only the sound.
That's how I assume that scene'll probably be shot if this ever gets filmed. The reason I described it in detail is so none of it gets lost from script to screen. I know it'll be watered down by the director and I wanted to get as many horrific things in there so that it still might be a little traumatizing even when watered down. :-) I happen to be speaking from personal experience when I say that, as I wrote a pretty disturbing short once and after it got watered down, some of the horrid elements still shined through and it was just as powerful.
Not sure if the water in the tub was running but I think that little detail could add to that scene as well (just a tiny detail that I feel may work wonders. Mother in the living room with the shower running, faint cries through the spray.)
She does turn the water on, but not until after she's done and she's doing the cleanup. I really do like that idea and love that image of the mother you're talking about. I just might have to work that in somehow whenever I get to another rewrite of this one. Thanks for the advice. I really do like that idea.
As for the incest and giving a little more clues, I'll have to think about that. I wrote two versions, one where he isn't sleeping with her, and one where he is. I decided to keep it in that he was sneaking into her room at night because it added more layers and complexity to Sazha's character, and it gave her a strong reason why she would want to be with Crandall so bad. I might go back and work it in more in the beginning just to see how it plays out. I think for right now, I do like the jarring realization. But I'm definitely debating it.
Once again, thank you a lot for the very kind compliments. I appreciate it and can't wait to get into your feature.
I said I'd get around to this and I forgot, I'm sorry. As for my comments, I haven't read any others so sorry if I repeat what's already been said and remember they are just my opinion - take them on the chin if you want to.
Pg 3 – PATTON It could be pictures of her brother. Pictures of him, even. – Didn’t know whether the ‘him’ was meant to refer to someone else or the brother. That bit reads kind of weird.
FALL – I didn’t get this either. I haven’t seen it in a screenplay before and was interested in whether you’re just stating the weather or a camera direction?
Pg 4 - Conversate – converse?
Balding and underweight, Crandall's not handsome; but he's not unhandsome. – I didn’t understand why this was here and not with his initial description.
Pg 24 - SAZHA Just tired, I guess – missing full stop.
Pg 27 - structure that needs to be learned – learnt.
Pg 40 – Crandall rubs a temple – IMO, reads a little better as ‘his temple’ – doesn’t matter which side.
CRANDALL I don't have any money whatsoever right now to be able and move again.
–Maybe a little rewording on this would make it sound better.
Pg 54 - INT. TURRELL'S BEDROOM - NIGHT Sazha's made it her own room – is this a mistake or are we looking from Turrell’s room straight into Sazha’s, across the hall or something? If this is now Sazha’s room, maybe state that as ‘Turrell’s old room, now Sazha’s’.
Pg 55 - She throws the item in with Crandall's other things. – IMO ‘throws’ is the wrong word, like a harsh reaction. If she is happy I would picture her placing it in the box rather than throwing it in.
Pg 59 – SPRING – Ok, now I understand ‘FALL’, but thought it would be better stated as a superimpose.
Ok – I had to stop after Cora started stabbing the babies head. I’ve had four kids and this scene just made me sick to my stomach. I wanted Sazha to fight back before then and if her age in this was a tad older she may have been able to. I was getting into this until then, I’m sorry, but I really don’t want to go any further.
As for writing, except for a few niggly bits, you’ve got a flare for it and I see a bright future for you in this business. Good Luck.
I'm even more sorry to have put you through reading that. I don't blame you for wanting to stop one bit. It wasn't fun to write, either, but I still felt it was a story that needed to be told.
I do remember mentioning that this one might not be your cup of tea when we had talked before, but I should've warned you a little better that it gets very graphic towards the end.
As for all the other notes you mentioned, I have rewritten this for the Nicholl's competition, and I do address some of the things you mentioned, but thanks for the heads up on all the other things I missed.
Mark, Seen this script around a while. Finally read it. Did not take long as your writing style was crisp and to the point. Your action seemed to give just the right amount of info without going overboard. Your characters read well, each having their own voice. Very well written!
Every now and again i come across a writer who can write the hell out of something. And you did with Thistles.
While it was extremely graphic, it was also compassionate. Your ending tied everything up nicely. Sazha was easy to root for. I could really feel her pain, and I was happy for her triumphs in spite of her obstacles. I don't recall a character in recent memory whose pain I actually felt. And I don't just mean her physical pain, but her sorrow when she lost her baby. Her animosity toward her mother. Her love for Crandall. And her closure when she put up her makeshift gravestone.
Heavy, heavy stuff.
I don't try to read ahead and guess what happens in stories. I like to get lost in the story, and just let it take me on a journey.
I gasped when I found out Turrell was sleeping (raping?) Sazha. I cringed when Cora aborted Sazha's baby. And I almost --almost!-- cried for Sazha in the aftermath in the bathroom.
Don't know if this will ever get made. I'm not too sure what kind of audience you're shooting for here. Def not your mainstream kinda thing. More Indie, I guess.
The ONLY issue I had with this was when Sazha first tried to seduce Crandall in his apartment. She came out of the bathroom totally naked. I just didn't think that was totally believable that she would do that. Maybe she just takes her top off, or something like that.
Thanks for reading my script a couple months ago. I know you said you didn't want to do an exchange in return, but things are slow around here so I decided to check this out (along with Breanne's Devil in D Minor, which I highly recommend). I try digging up stuff around here when I'm bored and in need of a script that will just blow me away. . . or at the very least entertain me for the next 2 hours.
I'll say I liked it. I wasn't blown away or anything. It was good, to a certain extent. You have Sazha who just suddenly appears in Crandall's room, stark naked, and that's where you got my attention. The Crandall character is a good one and I think he needs to be around longer than he is. IMO, this script drags big time for the next 30 pages or so and Smithers just seems like a throw in to make the script longer with wisdom that isn't really hard-hitting at all. (Also, you might want to re-work that logline. Crandall doesn't really tutor Sazha. And Sazha isn't really gifted, by any means. What you could change it to, I don't know, but as it stands now, it's more like false advertising and doesn't tell your reader what Thistles is truly about.)
The only "good" thing that comes out of that next 30 pages, I think, is that incredibly brutal and very uncomfortable scene where anti-abortionist Cora performs a violent abortion on her own daughter. Talk about irony. Also, talk about uncomfortable. That was a cringing scene -- and not in a laughing 'this writing sucks' way.
I was just reading through some of the comments and didn't realize there were new ones. I'm very sorry Steve and deadite. (Another name change? Thank God you don't change your avatar. :-)
I'll get into detail with your comments when I get off work in the morning. Thanks for checking it out!
Steve: Thanks for checking this out. I'm glad you liked it and thanks for the kind words.
Quoted from Steve
Don't know if this will ever get made. I'm not too sure what kind of audience you're shooting for here. Def not your mainstream kinda thing. More Indie, I guess.
Yeah, I think you're right about getting it made (well, not getting it made.) Although, I'm sure if a director did take this on, he'd tone it down quite a bit. I just decided to go balls to the wall so when it does get toned down, it might not lose all the agony the characters are going through.
And yeah, the 'pube' scene (as I like to call it), with Sazha early on, does go overboard a bit, escpecially for so early in the story. I'll probably be visiting that again if I ever come to rewrite this one again.
Yeah. It's fun to see people's reactions to this one. If there's ever been polar reactions, it'd be for this story. It's either love or hate. (Luckily, it's been a little more love than hate, though.)
I could see how you're pretty neutral on it, though. There's a lot of low-key drama to get through to get to the heavy subject matter.
I'm glad you caught on to Cora's character arc. I wanted to do an extreme character arc, and she ended up being the perfect character for it.
And I can't stand the logline for this one. I just can't think of one that's any good for this story. I've hated everything I've come up with.
Anyway, thanks again for checking this out. You got anything new on the boards, recently? Just let me know and I'll check it out.
I would actually like to see how others (maybe newer members?) feel about Thistles.
Challenge accepted. Will give this a read later.
Congratulations on the success at AOF, rc.
- DS
EDIT: Just read this and I'm blown away. This one's going to stick with me for a while (and no, I'm not talking about that bathroom scene). I'm quite new to screenwriting and I can't say I've I read a lot of screenplays, I think I could say that this is the best script I've read. Couldn't notice the time going by ever since I got past the mentions of Taye Diggs ( He was good in Day Break. I still remember that series even though I saw it when I was around 10. Action. Consequence... don't really remember too much apart from that actually...), the script completely engrossed me.
So I'll just go ahead and start with what Deadite is most curious to hear about. I recall reading the IMDB message boards some time ago on "My Name Is Khan"... Someone had started a thread on how unrealistic it is for someone to die after being hit in the stomach by a soccer ball and a lot of posters on that thread agreed. I recall a post saying how insulting it was to the viewer. It certainly made me think how much movie/TV culture has influenced this kind of view. All those people getting away from a bunch of fights and walking away perfectly fine.
So I don't really mind the realism here. Especially since the violence here benefits to the story. It's not just there for the sake of violence. As in the two headshots in the story, in real life it usually isn't just a small hole in the temple. I thought it was in character for Cora to just get carried away with it, coming to an awful but realistic result in the state of the body. Would i fast forward through this scene on the screen if it remained how it is in the script? Hell yes. Would I expect this scene to remain intact if the script were optioned? No.
The realism is what really made this script. The characters and the situations seemed real. Most importantly the dialogue seemed real. It must be difficult to write a mature teenager without making them seem too much of an adult. It worked great with Sazha in my opinion. I didn't notice anything preachy, it just seemed to show a poor neighborhood and the people living in it for what they are.
Crandall was the most compelling character for me. I especially like how you added how broken he was into his visual description, the past to present comparison. Despite all he had been through and how distant he was from the real world, the scene where Sazha read his notes about the students posthumous (great scene btw, moved me the most in the script) showed how he wanted to see the best in everyone was great and just made his character go full-circle.
Really wanted to see Cora get what was coming for her, but it had a much bigger impact this way. Loved the ending scene.
I'm usually just very anti-asides. I always end up thinking "Cmon this could have been written through actions" This one on Page 83 I could live with. It just fit his character so well that you could see it's there for a reason.
" SMITHERS (to himself) It's none of your business, old man. Whatever it is, it's well over now. Just let it all die."
Only gripe I noticed was on page 4:
Balding and underweight, Crandall's not handsome; but he's not unhandsome.
This was 3/4 a page behind his character description. I saw no reason for it to be there.
Not only did I get a really good read out of this. Something that really effected me emotionally.. I also feel like I learned a great deal about how to write a screenplay. Thank you for that and thank you for putting this on the paper. I'm going to google around on what exactly AOF is later. I don't know what this script is up against, but this deserves to see the light of day and I seriously hope I can see this on the screen some day. Hard to say anything that isn't praise. Good luck in AOF.
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