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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Drama Scripts  ›  The Secret War - 7WC Moderators: bert
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  Author    The Secret War - 7WC  (currently 4650 views)
MacDuff
Posted: May 10th, 2012, 11:56am Report to Moderator
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Hey guys,

While it was an interesting discussion, maybe we should guide ourselves back to script talk?

SPOILERS

For me - I think there are pros and cons for making Andrei Russian OR Polish OR Polish-Jewish. I will take all the comments and suggestions away and consider what is best for the story.

From the great feedback I have received so far, there are definitely some issues with the characters and decisions.  

Ewan - definitely needs to be fleshed out. What his arc is - I'm still struggling with. I need to work in his background story and what it means to the current story. He's too passive.

Weiss - I need to work on his story too. At the moment, he's too passive.

Helene - I want to keep her tragic arc intact. War was a tradegy and that's what I want to show with her journey. She's very repetitive. That needs fixed.

Quick question about Ewan's arrival in Holland - I chose Amsterdam, but should it be Rotterdam? Would that cause issues. Keeping in mind that I'm keeping the story setting in 1940.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

Stew


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VaultMan
Posted: May 10th, 2012, 12:14pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from MacDuff

Ewan - definitely needs to be fleshed out. What his arc is - I'm still struggling with. I need to work in his background story and what it means to the current story. He's too passive.


He does need to be fleshed out, but I thought that the story wouldn't suffer that much if he didn't have an arc, and  stayed the same guy he was, serving his country. His lack of arc is compensated, in my opinion, by the stories of Andrei, whoever he will be later on, and Helene. The lack of theme (at least I didn't notice any, maybe I just didn't catch it) was a more serious problem that I forgot to mention in my notes.


Chukcha not reader, Chukcha writer!

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VaultMan  -  May 10th, 2012, 12:24pm
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: May 10th, 2012, 1:22pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from MacDuff

For me - I think there are pros and cons for making Andrei Russian OR Polish OR Polish-Jewish. I will take all the comments and suggestions away and consider what is best for the story.

From the great feedback I have received so far, there are definitely some issues with the characters and decisions.  

Ewan - definitely needs to be fleshed out. What his arc is - I'm still struggling with. I need to work in his background story and what it means to the current story. He's too passive.

Weiss - I need to work on his story too. At the moment, he's too passive.

Helene - I want to keep her tragic arc intact. War was a tradegy and that's what I want to show with her journey. She's very repetitive. That needs fixed.

Quick question about Ewan's arrival in Holland - I chose Amsterdam, but should it be Rotterdam? Would that cause issues. Keeping in mind that I'm keeping the story setting in 1940.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

Stew


Stew (sorry for calling you steven)

My thoughts;

Overview - what sets this apart from others War stories is the psychic element. i feel all characters, angles should be woven into this. do they believe, do they fear etc

1] Date - personally i won't get too hung up about it. its fiction not even set around a specific event. Hollywood changes things all the time.

After all this could be a gypsy girl in south france and would still work - maybe set up more conflict and interest.

2] Ewan - i feel he should have a conflict between the mission and the belief that it works which is then changed to a fear of it and a clash between fulfilling his mission versus handing the allies a destructive force. his external conflict Mission v Fairness/Morality should be the external play of an internal disbelief/loyalty to male forefathers  v fairness to mother/honesty.

Maybe he could come form a family of soldiers (dad, grandpa etc) but his mother was a white witch. He chose the father route over his mothers but inside there lies a nagging belief. Maybe the mother died without seeing him or he blamed her for something.

I aslo feel his killing needs to be toned down - i feel you have a decent soldier wrestling with morals.

The end scene instead of to the front line how about off to the desert to join the Long range desert troop (early SAS)

3] I didn't feel the boat scenario worked. i would have gone for parachuting into switzerland. More realistic.

Maybe his coming could be foretold as an entrance to the film - the question we are left with is who is making the prediction?

In Where eagles Dare, they start with the plane and flashback to why they were in the plane.

4] helene - i thought her exit was right. Based on a fear of oneself, of what you can do, for the greater good, like a soldier. But maybe it could be more heroic, such as the keeping of ursula occupied whilst the bombers arrive to kill them all- i.e. she's dynamic and fights for it.

more idea will follow

cheers

bill



My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
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IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: May 10th, 2012, 11:09pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Macduff,

SPOILERS!

Got to finish the script. I overall liked. As from the beginning, I always digged the idea.

I like Helene's arc and especially what happens to the end. It makes sense why she would do that.

However:

How does Vogel recognize Helene before he's captured?

Also, I think you portray the Nazi's too friendly. I don't know if it's the media that has affect me but, in the scene where Helene is rescued by the Russains, the Nazi soldiers are too friendly. Make them be meaner.

As mentioned before, Ewan and Weiss need a better character arc and a bit more depth. Particularly Ewan. Weiss could seek more attention from his father who's a higher up in the Nazi hierarchy? Maybe have Ewan save someone else from his past?

Also, show Helene practicing and gradually getting stronger with her powers.

Since this is a first draft, I know you're going to rewrite it. lol. Enjoy.

hope this helps,
Gabe
  


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/

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Mr.Ripley  -  May 11th, 2012, 7:04am
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leitskev
Posted: May 13th, 2012, 10:47am Report to Moderator
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Ok, back on the job, Stew. Sorry about the delay. And sorry about the forced history lesson. I'm about at the half way point.

The writing is strong, so no problems there. The story still has a lot of potential. It's definitely going to need several more passes to make things convincing to me. The biggest problem I'm having is in buying into much of the dialogue. Of course, this is the hardest part to get right in a script, especially in a first draft when you're really just kind of fleshing out the story.

I don't want to get this going again, but I do think Andrei needs to be Polish. Enough said on that.

Ewen's finding Andrei and Helene is way, way, way to easy. That has to be explained. Poland is a HUGE country. We're talking a needle in a haystack mountain. For Ewen to be taking a piss, and then knocked out by Andrei is the mother of all convenience. Even though Ewen knew where Helene's parents house is, so had a rough idea. Certainly the Germans had an even better idea.

I'm not sure I buy into Ewen's dialogue when captured. He stopped sounding British and started sounding like an American teenager. That can be tweaked easy enough, because you had the Brit voice down very well earlier. Also, are they speaking Polish? Would Ewen be so quick to identify himself without knowing his captors? Would he be carrying ID like that, since it would result in his getting hung if caught? Just questions that came to mind. In a story like this, you want to try to get things close.

There is room for artistic license, so I'm not sure where the line is. I'll bring these kind of things up, and ultimately you'll look at all the various opinion and make the call.

This is a very ambitious and difficult story for a pre-pro writer. I admire your taking it on, glad you have. It's not going to be easy, though. WWII is a big stage, one of the biggest.

I also want to address the Germans. The Nazi era Germans make the best bad guys, of course. But we have to be careful not to caricature, I think. It's a difficult line. We want evil, but not unsophisticated evil. The Nazis were into the occult, so maybe they knew about the witches for a long time, even before they came into power. Things to consider.
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kingcooky555
Posted: May 14th, 2012, 1:48pm Report to Moderator
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Finished this one. I liked the story. I've never seen/read WW2 with witches before. The story had an Indiana Jones feel to it. Nazis. The Occult. Action/Intrigue.

The writing was very clean. I only found a few issues which I'll detail below.

Ewan - I like the double agent idea. However, I questioned why he didn't use his German credentials to take a more direct route in Act I. Here he was sneaking into Amsterdam, jumping off a parachute in Poland. Why not just go to Paris, flash his German I.D. and go to Warsaw via train? From there, find ground transportation? Finally, was he speaking in English when he meets Weiss at around page 85 or so? I would think he'd be showing off his German to back up his credentials.

Anna - As I kept reading, I saw the change in her. It felt like you were hinting that something was growing inside her, taking over her decision making. I can see that as she becomes more violent in the end. I really thought a demon was growing inside her. She would get her revenge and finally she cracks and goes all out evil. Then she goes after Ewan and Ewan ends up killing her to get the demon. She reminds me of Jean Grey/Phoenix from XMen. Maybe that's why I was expecting some demon or something.

Weiss - doesn't get his hands dirty enough.

Here's my page by page notes. Few technical issues as your writing is clean:

pg 1 - "Leave Us Be" - I prefer "Leave us."
pg 1 - "We will" to "we'll" in the next two pages Weiss uses contractions so makes sense to use them here.
pg 3 - "Leave them be." Again I prefer cutting out "be".
pg 4 - After Vogel says And the rest? I would have Weiss pull out a gun and shoot Oscar and point blank range. Then he utters - "Take the rest to the barn and burn it."

I just think Weiss doesn't get too bloody (early on). Here is an opportunity early on to show he's not afraid to take matters into his own hands. Sends a message to his own men and reaffirms his position of authority.
pg 6 - reminds me of Magneto in the concentration camp
pg 10 - Hits inciting event by page 10 - Anna taken Helene stays. Possible it's Helene who has powers
pg 26 "The raise..." should be "They raise"
pg 30 The slug Polish Village - House... can be simplified to "House". In fact, in the next scene you cut out the Polish Village part.
pg 63 "unharmed and freely to these people." Freely reads awkward and is unnecessary. How about: He promises to release my mother, unharmed to these people?
pg 67 Ewan hopes a fence... should be hops
pg 70 For you parents - should be "For your.."
pg 89 Why speaking in English?
pg 109 I guess no demon or anything guiding her?
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darrentomalin
Posted: May 14th, 2012, 7:58pm Report to Moderator
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I read the 7wc in order so came to this last so won't go over spelling, format advice etc as it's already been mentioned.
I'll comment on structure, I found it hard to find your act breaks, the mid point should be a switch.  There is the foreshadowing of Anna's growing ability and perhaps a darkness in her (that needs a stronger payoff) but nothing that really lept off the page at me.
The story was well written but basic wording caused the script to lack any real punch or colour. THis will come on rewrites as you re-address some over used adjectives and find new ways of saying more with less words. That's what the re-write is for after all The same goes for the dialogue. Ewan and Weiss did stand out for me. Ewan had dashes of Mal Reynolds (Firefly/Serenity... which is a good thing... especially when he executed Vogel without blinking)  He could become a real neat anti-hero once you go through your redeveloping of his character.
Vogel turned into Mr Exposition a couple of times around midpoint.
The story was quite brutal, the opening and Anna's treatment. Not sure what rating this would go for.

Positive thoughts about it are numerous - I love the idea and the bare bones, old school action coat this is all wrapped in; a hero sent behind enemy lines on a secret mission but... WITH WITCHES yeah!
Ewan was cool and thought you made your bad guy REALLY bad at the start (he lost a bit of his edge later when Himmel turned up, he's isn't needed IMHO)
So in short, my advice for any rewrites:
Ramp up the jeopardy midpoint, dig deep and pull on some creative threads for your action and dialogue, make your heroes really suffer by end of act2 to come fighting back for the finale in act3.  They have to SUFFER to contrast their victory when it comes.
Good job.
Daz


http://darrentomalin.webs.com/index.htm

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steven8
Posted: May 18th, 2012, 1:16am Report to Moderator
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Last to be read, but by no means, least.  I read this in the OWC, and I really felt then that it did have what it takes to be a feature -- and it does!  This was a really good story.  I love reading everything I can about the Vril society and the psychics being used during WW2.  This was wonderful story based on the possibilities.  This has possibly moved into my favorite spot, but it's close!


...in no particular order
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c m hall
Posted: August 5th, 2012, 11:47am Report to Moderator
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SPOILERS
Good effort, certainly, there's much for a reader to enjoy in the story, there's a great deal of energy and some memorable characters.
The twists and turns in the plot keep the story moving, maybe too fast, at times.

I find this to be an exciting story but the dialogue hinders more than helps.  I suggest you let the action carry the story as much as you possibly can (mere looks of distrust, worry, hatred etc. can carry much information, I think, and could enhance the feeling of doubt about motives).

The various miltary officers convey some needed information in their dialogue, I guess there's no way around that.

In truth, I thought the ending didn't live up to the first 3/4 of the action, and it fell into the dreaded  "oh no, she's too powerful!" mode.  On the other hand, by about page 77, I think there was more action, less dialogue and that was an improvement.

Anyway, good story, I think, and I will be happy to read any revisions of this, if you want.
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MacDuff
Posted: August 5th, 2012, 2:33pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from c m hall
SPOILERS
Good effort, certainly, there's much for a reader to enjoy in the story, there's a great deal of energy and some memorable characters.
The twists and turns in the plot keep the story moving, maybe too fast, at times.

I find this to be an exciting story but the dialogue hinders more than helps.  I suggest you let the action carry the story as much as you possibly can (mere looks of distrust, worry, hatred etc. can carry much information, I think, and could enhance the feeling of doubt about motives).

The various miltary officers convey some needed information in their dialogue, I guess there's no way around that.

In truth, I thought the ending didn't live up to the first 3/4 of the action, and it fell into the dreaded  "oh no, she's too powerful!" mode.  On the other hand, by about page 77, I think there was more action, less dialogue and that was an improvement.

Anyway, good story, I think, and I will be happy to read any revisions of this, if you want.



Thanks for the read!

I've gathered all notes and added it to my rewrite pile. Hoping to work on it in the fall and post a revision.

Again, many thanks for your comments. They've been noted  

Cheers,
Stew



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