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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Dramedy Scripts  ›  The Last Statesman
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  Author    The Last Statesman  (currently 11743 views)
eldave1
Posted: July 10th, 2015, 3:46pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from vancety
Just read the first scene. Very refreshing and believable dialog. Maybe, just maybe the scene was a bit to long. In this case I felt like Tom Lazarus describes in Secrets of Film Writing:
"One-and-a-half-page scenes are great.
Two-pages scenes are good.
Tree-pages scenes are right on.
Four page scenes are suspect.
Five pages scenes are to long...."

I still liked the dialog on page 4 for but somehow I got inpatient. Was in need of some action...


First thanks for the read - much appreciated.

Can't say I agree with the formula you presented (above). However, I do agree that, any scene - regardless of length - needs to hold the reader's interest until the end of the scene.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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DustinBowcot
Posted: July 10th, 2015, 3:53pm Report to Moderator
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For me 5 pages is the maximum I will go to. It's not too long, IMO.

Like other similar rules, they're fine in principle but are not set in stone.

We have to be aware too of these 'rules' affecting our judgement on what we read.
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eldave1
Posted: July 10th, 2015, 4:08pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
For me 5 pages is the maximum I will go to. It's not too long, IMO.

Like other similar rules, they're fine in principle but are not set in stone.

We have to be aware too of these 'rules' affecting our judgement on what we read.


Like you said - they're guidelines and the overarching one is to make each word - each page - each scene - meaningful. The OWC we just completed had a ton of scripts with 12 page scenes - that was just fine for what it was. I have read action based scripts with 1 or 2 page scenes that bore me to tears and dialogue heavy scripts with much longer scenes that kept my interest. I would concur that once your scene pages start to pile up - you better be extra careful to make sure it is not written in a manner that will cause readers to parachute out of your script.




My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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vancety
Posted: July 12th, 2015, 5:33am Report to Moderator
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Page 5/6
A large, ornate auditorium with nearly a thousand seats. A few dozen people are scattered in the first few rows.

A large elevated dais is at the front of the hearing room.   Lowell and four other Los Angeles County Supervisors sit in large, high back, leather chairs.

Page 6:

Show us that she’s “prim and proper” - behaves in a very formal and correct - by your dialog and/or action lines. Or if her clothes are prim and proper, describe “what” she wears so we can conclude that ourselves.

Page 8

Jackson SLAMS her GAVEL.

“When capitalizing for sound effects and off-screen sound, always capitalize both the thing making the sound and the sound it makes. (The Hollywood Standard - Christopher Riley)

Page 9:

Karen Mendoza TAPS on the DOOR of the conference and opens it half way.   But if we don’t hear his “tap”, don’t cap "tap" and "door"..
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eldave1
Posted: July 12th, 2015, 11:31am Report to Moderator
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Page 5/6
A large, ornate auditorium with nearly a thousand seats. A few dozen people are scattered in the first few rows.


Quoted Text
A large elevated dais is at the front of the hearing room.   Lowell and four other Los Angeles County Supervisors sit in large, high back, leather chairs.


Very nice catch here - thanks.


Quoted Text
Page 6:

Show us that she’s “prim and proper” - behaves in a very formal and correct - by your dialog and/or action lines. Or if her clothes are prim and proper, describe “what” she wears so we can conclude that ourselves.


I'm okay as is for now (I'm evolving on this issue). There was a nice post from GHOSTWRITER on your Gavel thread that is now gone for some reason - was going to refer to it. Anyway - I'm okay with what I have but thanks.

Page 8


Quoted Text
Jackson SLAMS her GAVEL.

“When capitalizing for sound effects and off-screen sound, always capitalize both the thing making the sound and the sound it makes. (The Hollywood Standard - Christopher Riley)


No - Mr. Riley is incorrect here, especially in his use of the term always. It's his preference, not a rule. Many folks don't believe in capping sounds at all any more. So I use my own guidelines. Basically it is based on what I want the reader to hear and/or see. If I think the noise or sound is the dominant feature - I'll CAP the noise. If I think the object is the dominant feature - I'll CAP the object. If I think both - then both. If I think neither - then neither.


Quoted Text
Page 9:

Karen Mendoza TAPS on the DOOR of the conference and opens it half way.   But if we don’t hear his “tap”, don’t cap "tap" and "door"..


No - see above. I don't really care if the reader/audience hears the sound or not (unlike the SLAM above where I did care). All I want the reader to know is that Karen is not rude enough to barge into a room without knocking which is accomplished without the CAPS.

Thanks again for the feedback - you raise interesting subjects. Cheers


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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vancety
Posted: July 13th, 2015, 8:28am Report to Moderator
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I still like the story.

This was excellent :

JACKSON
I thought this would just run its course.  

FERNANDEZ

Apparently, it is a very long course.

Page 71:

FERGUSON

"I sorry" becomes "I'm sorry"

Page 114:

Jason pushes the Lowell towards the site. cut "the"

                                                                        FADE OUT.

Would be cool if this was made into a movie.
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eldave1
Posted: July 13th, 2015, 9:50am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from vancety
I still like the story.

This was excellent :

JACKSON
I thought this would just run its course.  

FERNANDEZ

Apparently, it is a very long course.

Page 71:

FERGUSON

"I sorry" becomes "I'm sorry"

Page 114:

Jason pushes the Lowell towards the site. cut "the"

                                                                        FADE OUT.

Would be cool if this was made into a movie.



Thanks for the catches (above) and the read. It is amazing how many times you can read something and still leave typos. Anyway - much appreciated.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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medstudent
Posted: July 13th, 2015, 5:17pm Report to Moderator
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eldave1,

Started reading this.

My initial thoughts...

Opening action piece... I always like starting a scene with a small description of the location (Type of medical clinic, etc.)

Moving on...

I want to start by saying that I'm going to be particularly picky on this opening scene one, because I am a physician and two, I am a neurologist. I've had the exact type of conversation with real patients hundreds of times.

First, the opening dialogue is rough. Because the opening scene is the most important, it needs to zing either visually or with the characters. You need to capture the reader's attention right off the bat so this bit of dialogue has to be perfect. I would start by considering how much or little these two know each other. What is their backstory? Specifically, how do they know each other? Do they golf together? Are their kids dating? Do they attend the same church? Do their families go way back? These specifics matter because of the subtext within the dialogue. When I see patients I know, I start the visit with casual stuff... "How's the family? Did so and so get into school? Did Bill recover from that last night out?", etc.

When doctors, particularly neurologists examine patients it is usually routine. We've done reflexes, checked visual fields a thousand times. I would have the doctor perform his exam while talking to him about non-medical things. Also, experienced neurologists hardly say, "I'm going to do this next..." before having a patient do something. We hardly ever expect to find anything so we zip through most of the stuff ("Hold your arms out, touch my finger, close your eyes, follow my finger..."). Only when we find something amiss, does it cause us to pause, rewind and repeat parts of the exam.

Finally, Alzheimer's is a subtype of dementia. Dementia is defined as cognitive decline of a certain severity. Dementia can be acute, chronic, progressive, static. Alzheimer's Dementia is a chronic, progressive type of dementia with particular neuropathological features that include NF tangles, plaques, etc. Interestingly, patients with AD do not usually seek medical attention. Typically, their loved ones bring them in for evaluation because of odd behaviors, personality changes, forgetfulness, etc. They usually don't know that they have forgotten things. Mild cognitive impairment (MCI) can be seen in old age, traumatic brain injury or early dementias.

Clinically, patients with brain tumors (I'm guessing that's what he has based on the logline) present in one of several ways. First, patients can present with symptoms related to increased intracranial pressure. This can manifest as headache mostly but sometimes (rarely) patients can present with projectile vomiting (vomiting that comes without warning/nausea) due to pressure on the brainstem. Though this is typically seen in imminent cases of herniation and would not come and go. Patients usually have other signs and symptoms first (alteration of consciousness, diminished level of arousal, headache, blurry vision, etc.). The other common manifestation is seizure. Patient presents with a first time seizure, we scan them and find a tumor. It would be more realistic if Lowell presented with a worsening headache that came and has been present for weeks, then at some point lost consciousness from a seizure and is now getting checked out at the insistence of his GP.

I'll read on and get back to you.

Joseph


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medstudent
Posted: July 13th, 2015, 11:10pm Report to Moderator
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eldave1,

Most of the way through (page 87). I'm going to leave my initial impressions so far.

I am only one opinion. A guy who has never had a feature produced in his life. As you know from my own work I am still learning. So take this with a grain of salt. I feel there is a nugget of something good within this story. Something worth sticking with.

Spoilers....




The Last Statesman is a serious drama (not sure why it is in the comedy section)that attempts to address tough, modern day issues. The difficulty is that the story is nose down in the seriousness through most of the film. So much so that it frequently forgets its audience. I believe that material can be so heavy that the weight of it can keep an entertaining story from coming to the surface. The Statesman isn't preachy (and it the writer does a good job with this) but the script uses up most of its time making sure the audience is along for the ambling ride.

Generally speaking, the story gets the job done though is lacking in several key areas. The first and most important is the dramatic question. One is never asked. The story relies on whether or not Lowell has a terminal illness or not. This point is moot because we know early on that he does. The real issue and dramatic point that should be sharpened is what he's going to do with the time that he has left (because he knows and the audience knows in the first 4 pages). The story touches this but doesn't effectively use it as the thing that not only drives Lowell but drives the story. This should be the thing keeps the audience interested. When the "reveal" occurs  around page 69, it doesn't have its intended effect. Partly because there is nothing at stake. I know on the surface it seems that there is (getting the witness protection program overhauled, the governor getting re-elected) but there isn't anything really at stake for our main character. So what if he doesn't get the witness protection thing done? Who cares if Jason doesn't get re-elected? So what if Mckinney wins and becomes governor? More importantly, who really cares if he has a brain tumor? The reason these things don't do it is that the stakes whether Lowell succeeds or not aren't introduced in the beginning (or ever as far as I can tell). And since there isn't a real starting point (the dramatic question), it is difficult to build suspense, intrigue or drama. You want the audience to say, "Oh God, I hope he does it." and then have him either "do it" or "not do it". I think if you readdressed this, the story would fall into place. Almost everyone's actions should be antagonistic to Lowell's, preventing him from achieving this goal. You need to ask yourself, "Why does Lowell need to get the witness protection program overhauled? What's at stake?"

Once you sit down and answer the above, then I would take each character and mentally (or on paper) figure out the backstory between he/she and Lowell. The story relies so much on the interaction between Lowell and these characters that knowing the histories between them is of utmost importance. Right now, I feel like the script relies on exposition to fill in the backstory and this makes the dialogue difficult reading in places. Every word of dialogue should have subtext. Somebody owes somebody money, a favor. Someone knows Lowell's deepest secrets. Lowell knows one of the board members has been cheating (but doesn't say anything). Right now the dialogue is superficial. These people know things about the other. Things that they may be embarrassed about. Things that would make them look like a saint, a hero. When your characters speak, it feels like they just met. Casual conversation with the guy at the bus stop. There is more there. The dialogue should reflect this. There is one exception to this and it is the interaction/relationship between Lowell and Karen. These two have a history and you can tell by the way they interact on screen. When these two characters are together, they both jump off the page. It is very good. Duplicate this with your other characters. Again, once you know this backstory everything, including dialogue will fall into place.


These are specific notes as I read:

Pg 6. Pretty callous to have the board members act this way in front of a deposition, especially one that is televised. Maybe have McKinney the only one showing his disrespect.

Pg 11.

Quoted Text
LOWELL
Don't fret about it. We're both too old to get a long term illness.

This is soooo on the nose. It is the most obvious response. He's a smart ass. Make him say something smart ass.

Pg 12.

Quoted Text
LOWELL
...I should have stayed a cop.

Again, on the nose. His actions should say that he was a cop. Don't give his history away with one piece of dialogue. It's cheating. And it doesn't work.

Pg 17.

Quoted Text
LOWELL
I'm sorry. Um, I-I need to leave. Again, I'm sorry.

Again, no dialogue is needed here. Just have him leave without saying anything.

Pg 20.

Quoted Text
JASON
You mean, did I read about my dad?

No. Jason should never say those words. We need to LEARN this through his interactions.

Pg 21. I notice that if you were to cut the first (and second) line of dialogue, each conversation seems to flow better.


Quoted Text
JASON
I read it.

BAKER
This is not a good thing.

DELETE UNTIL...

BAKER (Cont)
Californians don't want a governor with a crazy father. We're right in the middle of fund raising. The last thing we need is...

JASON
It was a one day outburst. Leave it alone. It'll go away.


IMO, this flows better and accomplishes the same thing.

Pg 23-24. Great back and forth dialogue here. You really have the relationship between them down solid. It comes through in the dialogue.


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medstudent
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Pg 24. Not sure the next place I would have my character after a scene like that is telling fart jokes at a bar. You go from a crucial, serious scene to this. Lowell would still be thinking about the previous scene, IMO. I did like the dialogue, just make it one of the other characters saying it.

Pg 31-37. One trick I use with long stretches of dialogue is break it up with bits of action. Otherwise I tend to picture the characters stone like delivering their lines. I (and the audience) want to see what Lowell is doing while the others are talking.

Pg 44-47. You use up 3 pages to get Lowell through an MRI scanner. This should be a half page at most.

Pg 54-58. Again, I would interrupt this long stretch of dialogue with bits of action. Again, maybe Lowell is doing something crazy that Jason notices.

Pg 69. When we "learn" that Lowell has a terminal illness, it doesn't have the intended effect. I think it would be better if this information was learned early on (around the time he learns that Jaime is killed). This should be the news that drives Lowell to do what he does.

I'll finish this up over the next day or so and get back to you.

I hope this didn't sound too harsh. I think you are a great writer with good story telling chops. I also think this story has great potential. It just needs a couple of rewrites. What do I know anyway? I could be completely off target.

Joseph


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DustinBowcot
Posted: July 14th, 2015, 1:23am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from medstudent

When doctors, particularly neurologists examine patients it is usually routine. We've done reflexes, checked visual fields a thousand times. I would have the doctor perform his exam while talking to him about non-medical things. Also, experienced neurologists hardly say, "I'm going to do this next..." before having a patient do something. We hardly ever expect to find anything so we zip through most of the stuff ("Hold your arms out, touch my finger, close your eyes, follow my finger..."). Only when we find something amiss, does it cause us to pause, rewind and repeat parts of the exam.

Finally, Alzheimer's is a subtype of dementia. Dementia is defined as cognitive decline of a certain severity. Dementia can be acute, chronic, progressive, static. Alzheimer's Dementia is a chronic, progressive type of dementia with particular neuropathological features that include NF tangles, plaques, etc. Interestingly, patients with AD do not usually seek medical attention. Typically, their loved ones bring them in for evaluation because of odd behaviors, personality changes, forgetfulness, etc. They usually don't know that they have forgotten things. Mild cognitive impairment (MCI) can be seen in old age, traumatic brain injury or early dementias.

Clinically, patients with brain tumors (I'm guessing that's what he has based on the logline) present in one of several ways. First, patients can present with symptoms related to increased intracranial pressure. This can manifest as headache mostly but sometimes (rarely) patients can present with projectile vomiting (vomiting that comes without warning/nausea) due to pressure on the brainstem. Though this is typically seen in imminent cases of herniation and would not come and go. Patients usually have other signs and symptoms first (alteration of consciousness, diminished level of arousal, headache, blurry vision, etc.). The other common manifestation is seizure. Patient presents with a first time seizure, we scan them and find a tumor. It would be more realistic if Lowell presented with a worsening headache that came and has been present for weeks, then at some point lost consciousness from a seizure and is now getting checked out at the insistence of his GP.


I honestly hope that you're writing medical dramas.

I used to love reading Robin Cook novels. They were pretty much the same every time, like most easy reading authors, but they were good. Your knowledge in the area would stand out a mile. Like John Grisham with law. Michael Crichton's medical knowledge is evident in his books too.
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LC
Posted: July 14th, 2015, 1:29am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot


I honestly hope that you're writing medical dramas.

I used to love reading Robin Cook novels. They were pretty much the same every time, like most easy reading authors, but they were good. Your knowledge in the area would stand out a mile. Like John Grisham with law. Michael Crichton's medical knowledge is evident in his books too.


Coma is terrific and still stands up today. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077355/
Michael Crichton (screenplay), Robin Cook (novel)


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medstudent
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Quoted Text
I honestly hope that you're writing medical dramas.


Ha. Not yet. I plan on writing one (feature or TV series) in the future. Most of the medical dramas on screen currently I detest. Mostly because they are heavy on the telenovella part. Being a neurologist does help in some ways when writing.


Quoted Text
Coma is terrific and still stands up today.

Haven't seen it. Man, he looked young in that film!



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eldave1
Posted: July 14th, 2015, 11:33am Report to Moderator
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Hey med - responded - for some reason it's not posting - maybe there are limit on the length of a post - I'll cut it up.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
Posted: July 14th, 2015, 11:35am Report to Moderator
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Joseph - thanks much for the read and the detailed feedback.


Quoted Text
I want to start by saying that I'm going to be particularly picky on this opening scene one, because I am a physician and two, I am a neurologist. I've had the exact type of conversation with real patients hundreds of times.

First, the opening dialogue is rough. Because the opening scene is the most important, it needs to zing either visually or with the characters. You need to capture the reader's attention right off the bat so this bit of dialogue has to be perfect. I would start by considering how much or little these two know each other. What is their backstory? Specifically, how do they know each other? Do they golf together? Are their kids dating? Do they attend the same church? Do their families go way back? These specifics matter because of the subtext within the dialogue. When I see patients I know, I start the visit with casual stuff... "How's the family? Did so and so get into school? Did Bill recover from that last night out?", etc.

When doctors, particularly neurologists examine patients it is usually routine. We've done reflexes, checked visual fields a thousand times. I would have the doctor perform his exam while talking to him about non-medical things. Also, experienced neurologists hardly say, "I'm going to do this next..." before having a patient do something. We hardly ever expect to find anything so we zip through most of the stuff ("Hold your arms out, touch my finger, close your eyes, follow my finger..."). Only when we find something amiss, does it cause us to pause, rewind and repeat parts of the exam.

Finally, Alzheimer's is a subtype of dementia. Dementia is defined as cognitive decline of a certain severity. Dementia can be acute, chronic, progressive, static. Alzheimer's Dementia is a chronic, progressive type of dementia with particular neuropathological features that include NF tangles, plaques, etc. Interestingly, patients with AD do not usually seek medical attention. Typically, their loved ones bring them in for evaluation because of odd behaviors, personality changes, forgetfulness, etc. They usually don't know that they have forgotten things. Mild cognitive impairment (MCI) can be seen in old age, traumatic brain injury or early dementias.

Clinically, patients with brain tumors (I'm guessing that's what he has based on the logline) present in one of several ways. First, patients can present with symptoms related to increased intracranial pressure. This can manifest as headache mostly but sometimes (rarely) patients can present with projectile vomiting (vomiting that comes without warning/nausea) due to pressure on the brainstem. Though this is typically seen in imminent cases of herniation and would not come and go. Patients usually have other signs and symptoms first (alteration of consciousness, diminished level of arousal, headache, blurry vision, etc.). The other common manifestation is seizure. Patient presents with a first time seizure, we scan them and find a tumor. It would be more realistic if Lowell presented with a worsening headache that came and has been present for weeks, then at some point lost consciousness from a seizure and is now getting checked out at the insistence of his GP.


Valuable info here. I think the biggest mistake is not having a neurologist later on - i.e., Robert should be the GP doing the initial exam and then referring to a neurologist for the brain issues.

Thanks (p.s. think you should change your name from MEDSTUDENT to MEDGRADUATE



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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