Dan, I did a quick search and don't see any Raskin Hotels, so I'm assuming this is a made up name - which is fine.  But, we don't know where we are in terms of the country, city, town, etc, and these all make a difference.

Point is that you didn't set your scene at all. No descriptions of anything, including this hotel.  Most hotels that I am familiar with do not have exterior open areas of concrete at this kind of level, nor do they have pools below them that patrons can jump into, or toss babies into.

Where did Dylan just disappear to?  Why didn't he shoot the other cop?  Why were there all these bystanders around?

Just doesn't make any sense and comes off like you didn't think about your details before writing...which you need to do.

Quoted from DanC As for people being suspicious, I don't know.  If I went to the show and I saw an old friend of mine that I hadn't seen in years, I wouldn't think much about that.  Same with a supermarket.   I should have let the meetings happen in a more public place, but, if you ran into an old friend unexpectedly, why would you be suspicious?  Unless your friend acts differently than you expect, which it won't since it bases how it acts on your own thoughts), what would lead to suspicion?

I'd agree, except none of the characters ran into an old friend at a show or a supermarket; they ran into an old friend late at night on a deserted road in a part of town that seems to be in ruins. I mean, here's your exact description:

"The downtrodden area showcases closed shops, empty houses, burnt-out buildings, graffiti, cemetery. Abandoned."

You hit something with your car, you pull over, get out, and "run into an old friend." I mean, it'd be unnerving to run into *anyone* under these circumstances. An old friend would be even more bizarre. At the very least, wouldn't you be curious what they were doing *here* of all places? Who would come to a place like this other than to bury a dead body or something?

I mean, maybe I'm not picturing this right. Maybe it's just a shady part of town but populated and not necessarily in ruins. But you went out of your way to say it's "abandoned." Plus the mention of the cemetery led me to believe it was the dilapidated cemetery from earlier.

Plus Nick apparently suspects a shape-shifting creature to be behind these murders. Otherwise why would he mention it to the other police? He "runs into" his son at the very same place described above, a crime scene. How would his son even have gotten here? Does he live around the corner? He clearly doesn't have a car or anything.

You mention the supermarket. Indeed, Dylan's remains are found in the produce section of one (although he was supposedly killed in the cemetery). Why would the creature leave his remains here? Why not just leave them in the cemetery?

Your comments caught me off guard somewhat. I had to go back into the script to see if I had missed something. I don't think I have... have I? My conclusion at this point is that if I am confused somehow, it's that you haven't communicated what is happening in the script clearly enough, but if you think I'm wrong, please explain.

Indeed, I think you bit off a little more than you can chew here. I sympathize; I've done it many times before. But I don't think what you've got is working at the moment.

Opening scene written confusingly, but still better than the first draft.

Wait a minute! Cell Phone video in 1988?

Quoted Text "oh yeah, I’m getting it from a chick your age,"

How are you going to show this on screen?

"THUMP, THUMP, THUMP" looks too much like "TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP."

Wait. Is this still 1988?

Quoted Text Clothes vs sex? Sex wins.

Unfilmable?

Had to Google creeper. I'm still stumped.

Finished. Okaaay. The good news is, it was far better -- and slightly more coherent -- than the first draft. I still didn't understand 100 percent what I was reading, but it wasn't as convoluted as the first go-round.

Fair job.

Quoted from Dreamscale Dan, I did a quick search and don't see any Raskin Hotels, so I'm assuming this is a made up name - which is fine.  But, we don't know where we are in terms of the country, city, town, etc, and these all make a difference. Point is that you didn't set your scene at all. No descriptions of anything, including this hotel.  Most hotels that I am familiar with do not have exterior open areas of concrete at this kind of level, nor do they have pools below them that patrons can jump into, or toss babies into. Where did Dylan just disappear to?  Why didn't he shoot the other cop?  Why were there all these bystanders around? Just doesn't make any sense and comes off like you didn't think about your details before writing...which you need to do.

Thanks so much Jeff.

This is for Jeff and anyone else:  Can you show me how it should be done, correctly.  I learn best when I can see the wrong way (how I did it) with the correct way.  

You're right, I do need to work these out.  This is an issue that I deal with, honestly.  My "mind's eye" is blurry, to say the least.  I'd liken it to trying to explain a complex movie after only an hour of sleep, over 2 days.  There are times when I literally can't picture it.  It does suck.

As to your point, Dylan took the time to run away while everyone focused on the baby.  As for the bystanders, I don't see the problem.  I mean, if you're at a hotel and there's a lot of screaming and cop cars and other things going on, wouldn't you investigate?  

I just figured that a bunch of people staying at the hotel would check out what's going on.  

Am I wrong?  Obviously, I described it wrong...

lmk
thanks
Dan

Quoted from James McClung I'd agree, except none of the characters ran into an old friend at a show or a supermarket; they ran into an old friend late at night on a deserted road in a part of town that seems to be in ruins. I mean, here's your exact description: "The downtrodden area showcases closed shops, empty houses, burnt-out buildings, graffiti, cemetery. Abandoned." You hit something with your car, you pull over, get out, and "run into an old friend." I mean, it'd be unnerving to run into *anyone* under these circumstances. An old friend would be even more bizarre. At the very least, wouldn't you be curious what they were doing *here* of all places? Who would come to a place like this other than to bury a dead body or something? I mean, maybe I'm not picturing this right. Maybe it's just a shady part of town but populated and not necessarily in ruins. But you went out of your way to say it's "abandoned." Plus the mention of the cemetery led me to believe it was the dilapidated cemetery from earlier. Plus Nick apparently suspects a shape-shifting creature to be behind these murders. Otherwise why would he mention it to the other police? He "runs into" his son at the very same place described above, a crime scene. How would his son even have gotten here? Does he live around the corner? He clearly doesn't have a car or anything. You mention the supermarket. Indeed, Dylan's remains are found in the produce section of one (although he was supposedly killed in the cemetery). Why would the creature leave his remains here? Why not just leave them in the cemetery? Your comments caught me off guard somewhat. I had to go back into the script to see if I had missed something. I don't think I have... have I? My conclusion at this point is that if I am confused somehow, it's that you haven't communicated what is happening in the script clearly enough, but if you think I'm wrong, please explain. Indeed, I think you bit off a little more than you can chew here. I sympathize; I've done it many times before. But I don't think what you've got is working at the moment.

Hey James,

Thanks again for doing this.  I really appreciate it.  

There were cell phones in the 80s.  According to Wikipedia, the Motorola DynaTAC had a function that allowed people to store information.  I took that to mean that it could store conversations etc.  

I guess I screwed that part up.  It was supposed to be an audio recording, not video.  

You've never seen "the look" guys give each other when they know they are gonna get laid?  I thought that'd be easy to film.  That smirk, smile, nod etc.  

Clothes vs sex, sex wins.  That's easily filmable.  He looks at his high-priced clothes, then looks at his date.  You can have him look twice, check out her chest, shrug and get the creeper out.  

OK, the creeper.  Here's what it looks like:
http://www.sears.com/tools-mechanics-auto-tools-creepers/b-1028903

It's got 4 wheels and that's what mechanics get on to get under the car while the car is on the ground.  I had to google it too, so, don't feel too bad.

The guy is mega-rich.  I thought the fact that he had a cell phone at all would be a giveaway that he was quite wealthy.  

I didn't have time to show this, but, the Rakshasa actually hunts for his victims during the day, then executes his plan at night, under cover of the darkness.  

I admit that I bit off more than I could chew.  I need to get a better understanding of shorts and how much you can cram in them.  I blew it.  I think the creature is amazing, and I really blew it...

I hope I can make the feature length what I envision in my head...

As for it being not very coherent, can you site examples and how I might be able to fix them?

I have a feeling that several things we might not agree on.

If I was in a cemetery and I ran across my best friend from high school, I really don't think I'd be freaked out...  At least until she bit me and drank my flesh like you'd drink a sundae through a straw...

Yep, I screwed up.  It was pretty abandoned.  It wanted to kill him in a part of town that was "safe" that it wouldn't be seen by someone else.  

I guess my ability to accept the preposterous is too high

Nick talking about the shapeshifting ability of the Rakshasa is meant more as a context for us, the viewer.  And that's a big no-no.   The cop was half-kidding, but, honestly, they are all extremely freaked out.  I mean, they heard the same voice (and deduce the fact that he looked the same to the victim) and that isn't anything they've ever dealt with before.  

I mean, I could go with a curfew, but, honestly, if there was a shapeshifter in town, how would the local authorities react?  What would you do in the real world we live in?

You're right, the cemetery is the same one where the crypt is located.  I'm kinda in a bind.  The creature is super smart, for a being that is thousands of years old.  However, it isn't technologically smart, so, it doesn't really "get" the world of today.  It can read your mind, and know what you know, but, you know that saying, book smart, real world dumb.  

So, I have to write a creature that is smart and cunning, but, at the same time, behind the times and a bit simple when it comes to technology.  It's smart enough to not have dead bodies pile up near the crypt, or even in the crypt.  They may sleep on a bed of bugs, but, they also like nice things.  

James, you aren't wrong, and I thank you so much for taking the time to read my story.  It means so much to me that you are willing to have long conversations about an idea of mine.  

I really appreciate it and if you ever need anything read, just ask!!

Let me ask you this- you know the premise of the creature and what it can do.  How would you present it?  Perhaps if I have an idea how someone else would set up the story, it can show me where my logic falters.  

Thanks so much again,
Dan

Quoted from ChrisBodily Opening scene written confusingly, but still better than the first draft. Wait a minute! Cell Phone video in 1988? How are you going to show this on screen? "THUMP, THUMP, THUMP" looks too much like "TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP." Wait. Is this still 1988? Unfilmable? Had to Google creeper. I'm still stumped. Finished. Okaaay. The good news is, it was far better -- and slightly more coherent -- than the first draft. I still didn't understand 100 percent what I was reading, but it wasn't as convoluted as the first go-round. Fair job.

Hey, Chris, part of my last message was also meant for you.  thank you so much for reading the story too.  

I guess my biggest hope is that you can take the time to show me how I should do certain parts and do it the correct way.  

I need to get better.  I've gone from overly descriptive to too barren.  I need to find a happy medium.  

I won't enter any contest or anything b/c until I can write something good, I'd be donating money to the contest.  And I know I have a very long way to go.  

If you, or anyone, wants to pm me, or contact me at dancam1@yahoo.com, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks again to everyone who spent time with my story.

All I can say is that while I'm discouraged right now, I will try to learn from this and do better in the future.  I think I'm getting better.... I hope...

I'm trying new things to expand my storytelling.  You all know about my struggles with health, but,  that won't help me win anything.  I need to overcome all of that to achieve my dreams.  

And I certainly know that I won't forget each person who helped me along the way.  

I can't imagine how bad I'd be without this site.  Best choice I made in decades of my life.  Seriously.  

Thanks again
Dan

Dan, here's what I suggest...and I suggest this to everyone, good writer,bad writer, Pro writer.

Long before you start the actual writing on your computer, you need to know the details of your story.

You need to know who your characters are, and that includes lots and lots of details about them that will not show up onscreen, or be revealed in dialogue.  Who peeps really are shows through their actions, reactions, and dialogue.  Peeps act the way they do for a reason, and you, the writer, need to know who your characters are.

You need to also know where you story is taking place, be that a real place or a made up place.  And this is super important to you, because, based on what I'm reading of yours, it seems to me you don't have the slightest clue where you've set your story.  Life in a big city is much different than life in the suburbs, and life in the suburbs of San Francisco is much different than life in the suburbs of Green Bay, WI.  You need to know what's in your locales and how much time it would take to get from A to B, etc.

Does that make sense?

Quoted from DanC I didn't have time to show this, but, the Rakshasa actually hunts for his victims during the day, then executes his plan at night, under cover of the darkness.

Not sure if this was meant for me or Chris (indeed, everything before it was for Chris), but is this even important? I was under the impression that the Rakshasa would simply pick off anyone who was unlucky enough to stumble upon its territory. This was not an issue for me. It seems no make no difference if it hunts by day or night.

Quoted from DanC If I was in a cemetery and I ran across my best friend from high school, I really don't think I'd be freaked out...  At least until she bit me and drank my flesh like you'd drink a sundae through a straw...

In a regular cemetery, sure. In an creepy, abandoned cemetery, why wouldn't you be? I mean, even without an explicitly looming threat, why would you run into a friend from high school in a place like this? What would someone -- really, *anyone* -- be doing here? I mean, sure, you might not be immediately threatened or suspicious, per se, but wouldn't a pressing question be, WTF are they doing in a creepy, abandoned cemetery in a deserted part of town with nobody around?

I mean, these are super obvious, in-your-face issues to me. There's an answer to these questions, of course: it's not an old friend but a Rakshasa who has taken the form of an old friend. That's fine. My issue is with how casual the characters react to seeing an old friend in the absolute unlikeliest of circumstances. It's simply not the same as running into a friend at a show, a grocery store, or an "ordinary" cemetery.

Honestly, I wouldn't have the Rakshasa take the form of a familiar face for any of these scenes. It just doesn't strike me as appropriate, given the circumstances. It seems like you wanna have your cake and eat it too in the sense that you can show what the Rakshasa is capable of but still have it take place in a creepy horror setting.

For Phil, why wouldn't it just take the form of a wounded deer? Phil just hit something with his car. It'd be the perfect disguise. All he'd have to do is get out of his car and move in for a closer look for the Rakshasa to do its thing.

For Dylan, it could just as easily take the form of a homeless person offering to hide him. It'd fit the environment, and Dylan really isn't in the position to refuse help from anyone.

For Nick, it could take the shape of one of his coworkers, even the Captain. If he had the foresight to come investigate the crime scene alone, why wouldn't any of them? Nick could become suspicious once he realizes there's no other police car around. Go from there.

Quoted from DanC Nick talking about the shapeshifting ability of the Rakshasa is meant more as a context for us, the viewer.  The cop was half-kidding, but, honestly, they are all extremely freaked out.

Looking back, this seems to be correct; he is basically kidding.

Quoted from DanC I mean, I could go with a curfew, but, honestly, if there was a shapeshifter in town, how would the local authorities react?  What would you do in the real world we live in?

So they would implement martial law because there's a shapeshifter in town? But the captain explicitly says there's no such thing as shapeshifters. So does he implement martial law because there's NOT a shapeshifter in town? I don't understand what you're getting at here. The script seems to contradict your statement above.

Quoted from DanC You're right, the cemetery is the same one where the crypt is located.  I'm kinda in a bind.  The creature is super smart, for a being that is thousands of years old.  However, it isn't technologically smart, so, it doesn't really "get" the world of today.  It can read your mind, and know what you know, but, you know that saying, book smart, real world dumb.

There's simply no way this benefits your story, unless it's supposed to be a comedy of errors or something. Why would you want a "dumb" creature? Why would you want "dumb" anything? It's a poor approach for a script of any kind but especially horror.

Furthermore, I just don't buy it. If the Rakshasa's been around for as long as it says it has, it will have had the time to understand humans better. Even more, it will have become more adept at the act of learning in and of itself.  

You mention it's not "technologically" smart, but how much does technology have to do with anything that happens in the script thus far? If anything, what little occurs in the script technologically speaking suggests the opposite. Not only does the creature know what a creeper is, it knows to call it a creeper. That's a start, ain't it?

Quoted from DanC So, I have to write a creature that is smart and cunning, but, at the same time, behind the times and a bit simple when it comes to technology.  It's smart enough to not have dead bodies pile up near the crypt, or even in the crypt.  They may sleep on a bed of bugs, but, they also like nice things.

Again, I don't see where the technology factors in. No, it doesn't have to have nice things. But it should have some idea of how its victims think and behave if it's gonna be any kind of effective predator. That's basic survival-of-the-fittest shit, ain't it? Otherwise how would it have been able to survive this long?

Of course, it could just throw deception to the wind and simply attack folks as a giant bipedal tiger. That'd do the trick just fine. But then what's the point of the shape-shifting?

Also, what is this creature doing when it's not hunting? Is it hibernating for decades on end? How is it "behind the times" if it's out in the world killing people? Am I missing something here?

Quoted from DanC Let me ask you this- you know the premise of the creature and what it can do.  How would you present it?  Perhaps if I have an idea how someone else would set up the story, it can show me where my logic falters.

I made some suggestions above. Basically, the creature should implement the disguises that are the most appropriate and advantageous for its situation. Have it avoid situations that are risky, i.e. when its disguise is obvious or it has to spend a lot of time "in character." On the flip side of that, have it take risks, i.e. attack in its true form, when it has a chance to get away with it. Ultimately, try to have it reveal itself as a last resort as much as possible, when definitively cornered or outsmarted.

I'd scale back on the gore until the third act and perhaps not even reveal the creature until the second act. Build some mystery as to how these folks died. Build some mystery around the "beings" that showed up around the times of their death, i.e. the Rakshasa in disguise. Draw it out and work on having a creature that revels in its prey being confused and without any suspects or leads.

Also, scale back on the exposition and take a little more time crafting some of your scenes. It seemed you haven't applied enough scrutiny to a lot of them and simply tried to get through everything as fast as you can. This would be fine if you opted for a werewolf or some kind of rabid beast, but you've instead opted for something that relies (or should rely) on being insidious and in the shadows. The story should reflect that.

All this written somewhat in haste with several interruptions. I hope it comes across as intended.

James and Jeff, thanks to both of you for responding.  James, you gave me some awesome ideas.

Honestly, the biggest issue was the page limit.  I felt extremely rushed and in both versions, it showed.

In my last 3 writing exercises on here, I've overshot the page limit by 30, 5, and 10 lines respectfully.  Bottom line is that if I am gonna do shorts with hard page limits, then I need to build the outline so that it fits into the parameters.  I have learned the hard way that I can't have success of any kind without that critical first step.

This was, and always been a feature length film.  I am amazed at how well Dena's story turned out since she plans to turn this into a feature length film.  Perhaps since it started out as a short first,that matters.  Well that and the fact that she's awesome and a much better writer than I am at this point in my career.

Thanks again
Dan

Here we go again.

The logline needs a rework. It's more foreshadowing than a down and dirty summary and tell the reader nothing about the story except it involves kids. But the short doesn't involve them until the very end.

I like this intro much better! Jump straight into some action and establish who the leads are right away.

But why don't these cops shoot back when shot at? Kinda lame they take fire and shrug it off like no big deal. Is Brian blacked out? Or just hurt?

And why is Nick so out of shape he can't swim with a baby in a hotel pool? Can't be that deep or that big of a pool.

Maybe show Dylan being chased by police so he darts into the graveyard to get away? Kinda strange to have him just appear there in the middle of the night.

"Phil passes the valet, makes eye contact with him, glances
at the back of Marin’s head, smiles at the valet with that
"oh yeah, I’m getting it from a chick your age," look." - I'm not sure what kinda look that is, but a line that needs work.

Who is Ragman? Make sure to CAP his name in action when we first see him. That would also help the reader figure out who the heck he is.

Kinda weird Phil just sees his buddy out of the blue after a car mishap at night. Yes this is probably the monster, but still doesn't excuse the weird interaction between them here. Just is very random. We don't know Phil at all, and care nothing about this old friendship. Gotta be a better way here to show off the monster.  And why is Phil targeted? Just bad luck?

After the car attack we are back at the police station and then to a bunch of kids. Here's the problems again in you are doing too much. 15 pages isn't enough room to weave 4 separate plots like this effectively. No offense, but there is kinda a lot of nothing going on because the story jumps around too much. I thought this was going to be a prologue to your full length story but I could have been mistaken. I think this coulda been much stronger if you focused on one story and knocked it outta the park. Either Phil, Dylan or the kids. Take your time and execute a nice tease for what's to come. You don't want to give the whole plot away, but hint as to what's going on. In this case a very deadly and dangerous shape shifting monster is on the loose. Lots of room to play with that idea.

Dan, why is this monster in this town?  Where is this town?  Where did the monster come from and why settle here?

You need to know these kinds of facts and then work them into your script.  If you don't know, there's a HUGE problem even before you begun writing.

Thanks again Cameron and Jeff.  The page limit really hurt me.  I had to cram so much that just as a few others said that the story is just action action action and not any time spent with anyone.  I never should have attempted this and my gut feeling about this was spot on.

I should have gone with a short that I wrote years ago and wanted to transform into a screenplay.

His death was just bad luck.  It was hungry and when it read the guy's mind, he didn't care if he ate him.

Jeff, good question, but it follows the rules of most monsters.  Since it feeds on humans, it constantly has to keep moving from country to country, city to city, etc.  It knows that its species has never been thrust into the spotlight, but is also weary of Hindu priests figuring out what it is.  

Incidentally, the other stories I was considering were
A supernatural creature possesses a person which turns it into a wendigo.  Humanity's only hope (since it can't be harmed by anything made from the earth) is another supernatural creature.  I might be nuts but this was another full length feature that I'd cut down.  A big difference is that this is a straight forward fight.  Not much intrigue.

The other story was about an id force that terrorizes a small community.  

Instead, I chose the most difficult one to do.  I need to be smarter going forward, or I can kiss whatever slim chance that I have to make it goodbye.

Jeff, I do all that work you suggest, and more, in my feature length stuff.  I guess I have to be just as, if not more than, meticulous in the future.  Very hard lesson learned.  Luckily, it didn't cost me any cash (like from a contest).

Thanks again guys,
Dan

The trick with a short is to try to take a small story and make it feel big, instead of taking a large story and making it look small.

Hey Dan,

I know you're already fully aware you tried to do too much here. Not trying to pile on. I'd say the easiest way to make this work as a short is just pick one group of characters and focus on them. Nick and his son. Phil and Marin. Even Dylan in the cemetery.

Brian Lewis has a horror short on the boards called Our Doors Are Always Open that's actually very similar to your scene with Dylan on pg. 3. A druggy with emotional baggage meets an evil manifest as an old acquaintance and his sins come back to haunt him. That's basically what you have, if you just focused on those two characters in that one scene and flesh it out a little.

You seem excited about how powerful and awesome this creature is. So highlight that and keep it contained. A contained little tale demonstrating how this thing can physically and emotionally destroy a person. You won't be able to do a whole police investigation. You won't be able to fit much of anything you're trying to fit in. Just show us one, powerful confrontation. A little taste, a little slice of the hell that's about to be unleashed.


Also, I can't tell if this is just a product of the page limit issues, but there's some scenes that really have no place in a short or feature. Specifically, page 2 with Nick at home with his son. Not that it shouldn't exist as a scene. But there's zero conflict whatsoever.

You just set up Nick in the first scene as this epic, daring, courageous cop. He can't also be a perfect dad and a perfect everything because that's not interesting. We want to see flawed characters.

Here's one way you could both create conflict within that scene and start to establish an overarching character flaw... Nick comes home and finds a big trophy Earl won at the science fair. So Nick missed his son's big moment. He apologizes, Earl says it's no big deal, but we can tell it bothers him. Now there's an underlying tension to the scene itself. And we're getting a sense that Nick being the perfect super cop doesn't leave much time for anything.

Hey Cameron and Mark,
   Can, I love that advice of making the short feel like a big huge story.  I will take this all in for my next story.

Mark, I tried to show him being a great cop and good dad so that at the end when he dies that it has dramatic impact and that people care.  One criticism of my work going as far back as college is that my characters are a bit flat and when they die, people don't care.

I know this has been said tons of times, but people who think writing is easy are nuts.  There's such a fine line of making a character too perfect or too flawed (like Vic Mackey in the Shield, or Dustin Hoffman in Hero)  or too crazy or not crazy enough, or pushing the envelope too far or not pushing it far enough

And let's not even talk about dialog, a subjects professional writers hardly worry about in a novel, nor taught iin college creative writing classes, but avoiding one on the nose can lead you to write on the nose on another topic.  

It's enough to make me want to pull out my few strands of hair follicles that I have left.  

But, then makes my blood boil as if I were a Klingon.  How it drives me and gives me energy to trek on.  People say I'm getting better and you guys have no reason to lie, but truthfully, I can see some of the mistakes in judgement and execution, whereas before, I was shocked at my first bad review, so slowly, I'm getting better.  

Thanks to all of you that have taken the time to help and take this journey with me.
Dan