Quoted from bert Well hello, E.D.  I am almost always amused by your comments -- and it is with just a bit of trepidation that I wade into them when applied to my own work...

Heh, much like Brad Pitt's take on armed robbery in "Thelma & Louise"...
I firmly believe that critiques do not have to be an entirely unpleasant experience.

Quoted from bert That's an interesting take on things.  I haven't heard it before -- but can certainly live with it.

There's several instances where the malevolence hints at playfulness. I truly dig it.
It's a brave choice to diffuse your own set up with some impish humor.
My mind immediately goes to the snow/stone ball incident.
A child's activity twisted into a darker design. Thumbs up.
If Ty was the chief protag, this would be a straight up Joe Dante love letter.

Quoted from bert In the rewrite, Mary El is the blood kin, not Greg.  A simple switch that fixes a couple of problems, actually.

A simple but effective switch indeed. Good call.
Am I reading an outdated draft? Is there a post for the subsequent one?

Quoted from bert Options that have come and lapsed.  A couple of them, actually.  Perhaps the next rewrite will be the charm haha.  We'll see. I appreciate your thoughts -- and should you see it through, I look forward to the rest of them.

Gotta love those rewrites. They fascinate me to no end, how a story shapes itself.
Was there any reason given as to why options weren't exercised?
Forgive the prying, I like the property and am genuinely interested.
Looking forward to finishing this one up. Cheers!

E.D.

Quoted from Electric Dreamer Am I reading an outdated draft? Is there a post for the subsequent one?

No, you are not.  There is a new draft, but that is "in progress"...and progress...and progress...forever and ever, amen.

And that draft is not fittin' for postin'.

Quoted from E.D. Was there any reason given as to why options weren't exercised? Forgive the prying...

It's not prying at all.  I can only assume the filmmakers were a little over-ambitious.  Either that, or they were eaten by dragons -- as I never heard from them again.

And it is not prying because it is a very common scenario that everyone encounters.

Your turn is coming, trust me.

Bert,

The Farm. Day two. Got her done today.
There is lots of seriously well laid ground work here.
It's obvious to me you've spent solid time on the story structure.
The beats are in the right places, but the plumbing ain't flowing to capacity.
A big chunk of the plumbing problem is rectified by making Mary El sister to Dan.
As you suggested, I find the other problem is with Yoder.
His motivations seems to waiver depending on what the scene calls for.

Now, I'm no licensed plumber, but I did have a thought about how to rectify things...
Let's say, that Yoder was not a babe in arms when the incident occurred.
What if he was older? Too young to work, but old enough to process events.
But he froze, he did not go for help, and his siblings paid the price.
Survivor's guilt gone bad gets those motivational waters pumping for me.
It's a secret worth killing to keep, especially if your twisted brain simmers for decades.
When the new family arrives, he'd want to keep close tabs on them, befriend them.
Even endear himself to them with the "tragedy" that befell his family.
See where I'm going with this? Kick it around, see what it does for you.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on these plumbing possibilities.

Onto scene specific stuff...

p. 53 Greg with the dead kittens. Needs a "Bad cat." line in there somewhere.
p. 56 I'm very pro cat death, but the logistics of it feel flat. Fish Head killed her kids.
        I think "Sarah" would want Fish Head to pay for that. A conscious toss perhaps.
p. 59 Broken bourbon bottle. More playful humor, I dig it.
p. 60 Burying Fish Head. Pet Sematary much? That cat's coming back. =p
p. 62 No electric company mention feels odd.
p. 63 No payoff for Gameboy quest. Meh. Nice chance for demonic mischief there.
p, 67 Love the flashback teddy bear reveal, more stuff like this, please.
p. 76 The stabbing thing didn't work for me here at all. Yoder is the liar in the room.
        A little "Liar liar, pants on fire" and a tipped over lantern would kick ass here.
        This is the kind of malevolent mirth I seen simmering between your pages.
p. 85 Yoder feels lost here and your scene suffers for it.
p. 87 Mary El becoming Dan's sibling gives this scene new life. Sister showdown. Yeah!
p. 106  The funeral music needs to matter. A loop back to the beginning somehow.

A couple motivation questions I have:
1) What's the deal with Teddy? Is that how the little boy manifests?
2) I don't understand why Yoder kills Dan and Erica. How were they a threat?

Supporting characters:
Shame on you for not bringing back Alona, she's a great mentor character.
The abrasive chain smoking nurses would have made nicer fodder than the Sheriff.
Bring them back to get their comeuppance for being "bad caregivers".

I must confess, my creative juices really got flowing with this one.
It's almost there, super close, I can feel it, just needs a plumbing polish.
Stellar work, Sir.

Keep writing and rewriting, especially this one!

Regards,
E.D.

Hey E.D. -- so you did make it through this one.  Great, thanks.

Everything you said is duly noted, though I usually respond to select points, lest I lose people's interest.

Quoted from Electric Dreamer As you suggested, I find the other problem is with Yoder.  Let's say…what if he was older? But he froze…and his siblings paid the price.

I would say that your instincts are good here.  In fact, what if he were the oldest child, and cowardly saved only himself at the expense of the others?  That is the angle I am currently exploring with that segment.

Quoted from E.D. p. 76…Yoder is the liar in the room…a little "Liar liar, pants on fire" and a tipped over lantern would kick ass here…this is the kind of malevolent mirth I seen simmering between your pages.

Maybe not exactly that, but I see what you are going for here.  I am looking for ways to trim the third act, and this scene might be a good, earlier place to start the third act.  I like that, and could cut some things from later pages.
  

Quoted from E.D. The funeral music needs to matter. A loop back to the beginning somehow.

You know, I did have a selection from Abbey Road in mind, but I thought people would howl if I included it.

Quoted from E.D. 1) What's the deal with Teddy? Is that how the little boy manifests?

It was never really made clear (not even to me haha), but Teddy plays a slightly different role now.  Still malevolent, but more is implied, and you do not see him actually running around and attacking people.

For far too many readers, those scenes played out as utterly comical.

Quoted from E.D. 2) I don't understand why Yoder kills Dan and Erica. How were they a threat?

By simply living there, and farming that land, they brought the children back.  Yoder thought killing them would solve that, but when he sees Angel, he realizes that he has only made things worse.  It is too subtle right now, for sure, and one of the things I am working on clarifying.

I was very glad to read that you liked the supporting cast.  I was worried bringing back Alona would be a little too reminiscent of that black guy in "The Shining."  But maybe not -- I will consider a few options.

I really only want the nurses up front, though.  But I am also thinking maybe they can have their own short script someday.

I really appreciate your time on this one, E.D.  It always helps inspire me when somebody brings some new thoughts to the table.

I will even try to hit you back before too terribly long; please let me know if you have something fresh in the works, or are craving reads on something older.

Quoted from bert I would say that your instincts are good here.  In fact, what if he were the oldest child, and cowardly saved only himself at the expense of the others?  That is the angle I am currently exploring with that segment.

Hey Bert,

I always intended to finish reading your script.
My apologies if anything I said suggested otherwise.

I thought of the angle you mentioned and here's why I shied away from it.
Your way, Sarah and the kids are straight up victims, black and white.
You're turning the family of antags into victims in the third act.
Angel is already going from antag to victim in the end, don't go to that well again.
All the malevolence against the new family feels misplaced going that way.
If Yoder's a toddler the retribution comes from malevolence and revenge.
It's reflected in Yoder as he deteriorates, it "runs in the family".
The toddler solution gives Yoder emotional strength to draw on.
His regret twists and deforms over time, being a coward is just that, no arc.
This gives Yoder a fantastic opportunity for a demented swan song speech too.
However, if you don't want Yoder to have as much screen time, coward works better.

Quoted from bert Maybe not exactly that, but I see what you are going for here.  I am looking for ways to trim the third act, and this scene might be a good, earlier place to start the third act.  I like that, and could cut some things from later pages.

Forgive the direct example, I tend to rewrite as I read when I get passionate.
It only happens when I feel something will really take off with a fix or two.

Quoted from bert By simply living there, and farming that land, they brought the children back.  Yoder thought killing them would solve that, but when he sees Angel, he realizes that he has only made things worse.  It is too subtle right now, for sure, and one of the things I am working on clarifying.

As this motivation stands, the coward scenario makes it harder to swallow.
To go from a coward to a premeditated murderer, bit of a leap.
I look forward to seeing how you shore these points up.

Quoted from bert I was very glad to read that you liked the supporting cast.  I was worried bringing back Alona would be a little too reminiscent of that black guy in "The Shining."  But maybe not -- I will consider a few options.

We all need more Scatman Crothers in our lives!
Alona is a good egg, she's the kind that helps out when things are at their worse.
Remember, no mail pick up for two days and she comes knocking.   

Quoted from bert I really appreciate your time on this one, E.D.  It always helps inspire me when somebody brings some new thoughts to the table. I will even try to hit you back before too terribly long; please let me know if you have something fresh in the works, or are craving reads on something older.

Heck yeah! Dude, if I had an agent and offered a rewrite, I would jump all over this.
This story sings to me, took the better part of a day to floss it out of my brain.
I have a new short posting soon and a new draft of Red Sun close to done.
Save any read backs for then, I appreciate the thought.

Keep writing and rewriting and rewriting and rewriting!

Regards,
E.D.

P.S. The title tells me nothing, could be a dustbowl drama for all I know.
       Start with "Dry Lightning" and work out from there.
       Dry lightning sounds like dusty revenge, me likey. =p

I've read a lot of screenplays in the last couple of months, and this was one of the easiest to read. It reads like a short story, and to me indicates the writer has the sense of a story teller, which I like in a novel or a movie.

Part of doing a read here, I assume, is to identify any problems. I only found I few, and just my opinions of course.

First, the discussion between Greg and Ty about the record player. I would have Greg's reaction to Ty not knowing about record players be a little more simple. When Ty says " So these can be played on that?" I would have Greg just smile and say "yes". I asked my 7yr old niece, and she knows what records are, so maybe Ty is being sarcastic here. It seems hard to believe he wouldn't really know. But even if he didn't, the simple reply by Greg would be better.

Second, I thought Greg and his wife were a little quick to accept Ty's teddy bear story. Even with the scratches. Maybe they should accept it with extreme skepticism.

Third, typo I think with this:
And he was wrong about many
things.  It was the not the
sowing of earth that beckoned
us.  It was not a seeding.

Last, I think Sarah sounds a little too adult like. I know she has been dead, and had access to certain information, so I don't expect her to sound like a normal 9 yr old, but in my imagination she would still have at least some of the characteristics of a 9 yr old girl, for eternity. Not sure if you agree. Maybe you could tweak it by simply giving her some girl like moments in the dialogue. She comes across as very emotionless, which I know is part of the effect you want, as you want her spooky and dangerous. Maybe she could be allowed an emotional outburst or two. For example, Sarah could confront Yoder about watching him bludgeon Angel.

But I enjoyed the story, and would gladly read any others submitted by this author.

Quoted from Electric Dreamer As this motivation stands, the coward scenario makes it harder to swallow. To go from a coward to a premeditated murderer, bit of a leap. I look forward to seeing how you shore these points up.

Sigh.  You are quite right, of course.  Getting Yoder to make perfect sense has been a struggle.  He is one of the main things clogging the pipes of the rewrite.

Quoted from E.D. We all need more Scatman Crothers in our lives!

Haha -- you immediately knew who I was talking about!  I didn't use his name as I felt it might be too obscure.  You should know that as a Scatman fan, the value of your opinions has just leveled up.

Quoted from E.D. Dry Lightning

Hmph -- that is not half bad, really.  Maybe a variant of that.  I have never been totally sold on The Farm.  It just started as that and a lack of inertia kept it there, despite its being fairly generic.

And thank you, too, Leitskev, for jumping into the fray.  Your comments are very much appreciated, and I am glad the novelesque stylings did not throw you off.  It is not for everybody, I have learned.

Quoted from leitskev I asked my 7yr old niece, and she knows what records are, so maybe Ty is being sarcastic here.

I do get what you are saying with the record player, and I worried about that myself.  The sarcastic angle you propose might make for a nice compromise -- Ty is nothing if not sarcastic -- or perhaps by the time this actually gets produced, a scenario such as this might be more realistic haha.

As for Sarah sounding adult, it has been a while since I have gone through this for dialogue.  I will have to take a look.  I actually tried to give her as few lines as possible, so it shouldn't be too hard to examine.

And welcome to the boards, Leitskev.  Drop me a note when you have something going up for reviews.

Quoted from bert Sigh.  You are quite right, of course.  Getting Yoder to make perfect sense has been a struggle.  He is one of the main things clogging the pipes of the rewrite.

If you can make sense of how Yoder becomes unhinged, he'll fill in the rest for you.
"Your movie is only as good as your villain." A.H.

Quoted from bert Haha -- you immediately knew who I was talking about!  I didn't use his name as I felt it might be too obscure.  You should know that as a Scatman fan, the value of your opinions has just leveled up.

I am humbled by your kinds words.
"The Shining" was my first "movies ain't books" lesson in life.
I grew up around the industry and read King books in grade school.
I had already read the book when the movie was theatrically released.
Kubrick killed off my fave character from the book, a major plot change.
Being the precocious nine year old I was, I didn't take the change well.
After Scatman got the axe, I stood up in the movie theater and yelled...
"F*ck you, Stanley!"
I took the plot change rather personally at that age. =p

Quoted from bert Hmph -- that is not half bad, really.  Maybe a variant of that.  I have never been totally sold on The Farm.  It just started as that and a lack of inertia kept it there, despite its being fairly generic.

Indeed, I meant the title suggestion as a jumping off point.
To be honest, it has grown on me some.

I'm dead excited to see where you take this script.
Best of luck!

Regards,
E.D.

Folks,

This thread was accidentally deleted.  I was able to bring it back from an old archive (as of January 2011).  Apologies.

Don

Something's wrong with the thread here.  I noticed the script disappeared a few days ago, now it seems to be missing a bunch of posts.

What's going on, Bert?

Quoted from Dreamscale Something's wrong with the thread here.  I noticed the script disappeared a few days ago, now it seems to be missing a bunch of posts. What's going on, Bert?

It is very embarrassing -- but I was totally distracted a few days ago and totally messed up and hit the wrong button and deleted the whole damn thing!!

A real AHHH! moment, as you can probably imagine.  

Fortunately, I DO keep files of my feedback.  Lesson to anybody out there reading this -- just copy-and-paste your feedback into a Word file.  It only takes a few seconds and someday you might be very glad you did.

My man Don put the fix in from an archive, so big shout-out to my favorite tech-geek on the planet.

Bert,

I’ve listed my comments as I read this below. Often I’m more likely to note negatives than positives.

Title Page – The title is fairly solid although it might be a bit generic.

Pg 1 – The initial blocks of descriptive text have a heavy feel to me. Some elements I like, but much of it could be sharpened up to avoid a quite unwelcoming feel for the reader.

“The footfalls belong to a young girl of about six years,
still in her nightclothes, making her way across this
frozen landscape.

She is wet and streaked with mud. Her naked feet bury
themselves into the snow halfway to her knees with each
step as she trudges forward. But she is in no apparent
discomfort, and in no particular hurry.

This is ANGEL.” – This for example could be, say “ANGEL, 6, trudges through the snow, wet in her mud streaked nightclothes, and in no discomfort from her bare feet.” This reduces the text from 341 characters to 114, without losing much.

Pg 2 – “It is the woman from the photograph, but no longer smiling. Erica is dead. Her eyes are open.” – This is another example of how the text in this takes me out of the story by being overly heavy. It could be, say “It’s Erica, not smiling. She’s dead. Her eyes open.” which would carry the same effect, but with more punch. I recently read a suggestion in a book that writers should assume their readers have high intelligence, and this is a good example of it. As a reader I get offended by your implication that three paragraphs later, in the same scene, I’ll need reminding of who Erica is.

“Ty is in the back seat of an automobile.” – You mean “a car”, stop trying to dazzle me with your long words!
Also the line is largely redundant, since the other description around it would lead me to picture the kid as being in the back seat of a car.

“, from the father or the son.” – The previous sentence in this paragraph tells me about the grinning habits of father and son. When this sentence says “either grin”, I know who you mean without this reminder. This sentence extension might as well say “I believe you the reader, are a dumb-ass!”. Sorry about being abrupt on this point, but I really am getting annoyed.

Pg 3 – I like the tension and character reveals in the near accident.

Pg 4 – “And the windmill, of course.” – Why “of course”?

Pg 5 – “EXT. THE SAME FIELD WHERE WE FIRST MET ANGEL – DAY” – Perhaps it could be called EXT. ANGEL’S FIELD the whole time.

The story has set up a clear mystery and a solid set of characters you can work with.

Pg 10 – I’ve just noticed that I’m not yet sure who’s story this actually is. Is Angel the protagonist or is it one of the family members? It feels like it’s Mary El at the moment since she is taking initiative.

Pg 13 – Essentially you have 2 scenes on the previous 8 pages and they are both fairly static and dialogue heavy.

Pg 16 – “But something is wrong with these pictures.” – I like this creepy visual, but I wonder if there is a way to describe it that packs more punch. This line in particular is something I want to think in my brain rather than read on the page.

Pg 17 – It may be that “Alona” is a real name, however in my mind it sounds like “a loner”, perhaps this is deliberate.

Pg 25 – I like the cat and the exploration of the place.

“But now, she speaks.” – I get that from her dialogue.

Pg 29 – I like the creepy things that are happening.

Pg 34 – The teddy bear stuff is scary, but there is a slight danger of it being comedic in a way that perhaps a different toy might not be.

Pg 39 – The intensity of the story is working well.

Pg 42 – “do you feel like there’s something strange going on here?” – Might be on-the-nose.

Pg 50 – Still moving along pretty well.

Pg 64 – I’m still enjoying the ride.

Pg 70 – The flashback works pretty well, but it doesn’t immediately explain why the children bear a grudge against people that live there now.

Pg 71 – Okay, I guess they do have their reasons.

Pg 76 – I get the sense that you’ve gone through a “dark night of the soul” and this has stepped up it’s pace for a finale.

Pg 86 – The story is still going along well. I’m surprised that there are still 20 pages to go since it feels like the confrontations are coming to a head.

Pg 87 – I can see it working, but again I’m wondering if the cat attack could play a little comedic.

Pg 92 – “Ty reaches behind him and wrenches the bear” – Being kind of slow it took me this long to realize this is the Teddy Bear, not a real bear! It does seem a bit odd that he has this much trouble with it, then kills it by grabbing it and easily stuffing it into something. Again, I’m left questioning the teddy bear thing overall.

Pg 93 – I like the excitement of this ending. A slight doubt I have is that I’m not sure that I get who is up against what and why. Yoder seems like a threat to anyone, even though as far as I can tell he only has a problem with Angel. Ty has had a fight with a teddy bear, who I’m taking as a physical manifestation of the children, so does that mean they are out to get everyone, or just him? Gaskins has rightly been wasted as fodder. Greg and Mary El seem to be drifting a bit aimlessly, and I’m not sure who they are trying to battle with. It might all get straightened out, but at this stage in the story I’d suggest seeing if you can get this clearer.

On the same general topic it seems like the good guys out number the bad guys and possibly have more power than them. This is if Yoder is the bad guy and the children are siding with Angel and she is a good guy. Maybe I just have that all wrong, I’ll find out...

Pg 102 – Yoder getting killed by the children probably works but runs the risk of being a miraculous resolution. It also raises the question of why they didn’t act before now, but I realize that kind of question would destroy many a good movie!

The children have a slightly strange position in this since they are siding against their own brother and apparently against his efforts to restore the piece on their fields?

Pg 103 – “ANG#EL#’S GRAVE”

Pg 107 – Okay, so you did have it all ready to wrap up nicely.


Overall this is really good. It is well contained and you keep the thing moving along strongly, revealing more and more as it goes and building the pace to the finish.

As a general comment on the writing style, I found that when the pace of the story became more intense, so did your writing. There were less of your descriptive wanderings and it was better for that. On that subject I would suggest fixing this element because it really did put me off, especially near the beginning. Aside from that the writing technique is clean and smooth.

If you tightened up this text style that would take a few pages out of this. I would also suggest seeing if you can tighten up some of the scenes, because I have a suspicion that if you could get a draft of this that’s under 100 pages it would be seriously sharp.

Reading over my notes it occurs to me that the reason for the teddy bear wanting to kill Ty still seems unexplained to me. So I’d suggest seeing if you can drop the teddy bear scenes and either not have them at all or devise some alternate issues for Ty.

On the good guy/bad guy thing, it seems to work out that Yoder and the teddy bear are the only bad guys and they are arrayed against two adults, one teen, one near dead possessed child, and a gang of super-powered spirits of children? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding this, but it seems then that the good guys are holding all the cards and much of the adversity they face could be viewed as contrived. One suggestion that occurs to me on this, but might be complicated, would be to have the children disagreeing which each other as to which side they should be on.

Another issue you could look at is focusing in on whose story this actually is. At the moment it is an ensemble story and that works okay. I wonder though if it also keeps us slightly at arm’s length from the events, since we never fully attach to a specific character. This also makes it harder to pick out what the driving motivations are and it results in the stirred up finale. If we were more closely tied to a specific character we could see the finale unfold a bit more smoothly.

I just looked over the rest of the thread. Lots of good comments in there.

Good luck with it.

Philip

Hey, Philip.  What an excellent bunch of stuff to look over.  Thank you so much -- and a great first batch of comments post-meltdown of my thread.

At this point, I have more replies that actual views haha.

I will cherry-pick a few responses, but all comments have been duly noted.

Quoted from pwhitcroft The title is fairly solid although it might be a bit generic.

I do kind of agree with that, though an IMDB search will reveal it is not nearly as common as one would suspect.

E.D. a few posts up is pushing for some derivative of "Dry Lightning", which I am still kicking around.

Quoted from pwhitcroft The initial blocks of descriptive text have a heavy feel to me.

I was going for tone -- and defended those passages for a long time -- but it may be time to concede this one, as even our good friend Babz seems a bit put out with my opening pages.

Quoted from pwhitcroft Essentially you have 2 scenes on the previous 8 pages and they are both fairly static and dialogue heavy.

Those have always bothered me.  In the rewrite, they arrive during the stabbing, so they are flung right into the mayhem.  It reads much better, I think.

Quoted from pwhitcroft Pg 29 - I like the creepy things that are happening.

You have several comments along these lines, and I really enjoyed these.  They sent me running to the script to see what was going on at that point.  Like a little scavenger hunt.  Thanks for those comments, which are much more helpful than you might have imagined while typing them.

Quoted from pwhitcroft Pg 86 - The story is still going along well. I'm surprised that there are still 20 pages to go since it feels like the confrontations are coming to a head.

Good eye, and you are correct.  Trim, trim, trim shall be the order of the day once I reach the third act of a rewrite.  The cat attack is so gone haha.  What was I thinking?  The teddy bear will still be around, but more as a malevolent presence and not so much running around and attacking.  That does seem a bit much.

And like you say, something less than 100 pages is good goal, and I am in agreement there.

As for the confusing alliances, it is supposed to be Yoder versus Angel + the ghost kids with the Erickson family caught in the middle.  It is too convoluted right now, for sure, and your thoughts in that regard will go into the notes file, so thanks.

Quoted from pwhitcroft Another issue you could look at is focusing in on whose story this actually is.

It is supposed to be largely Mary El's story, and that you did not take that away is helpful to know.

Again, lots of excellent feed here, Phillip, and thanks so much for your time and thoughts.  As I told you, if there is something you are particularly keen for eyes on, drop me a note.

That just goes to show you Bert that simply scripts can hype you up but since none of the people here are in the industry yet. We can only boost your Ego to let you down by the big boys. And from the list they chose a good 50 moviescripts over your script of the month screenplay. That can't be to good. But it places you back into reality I guess. Simply scripts is just one community of people who love you and your script of millions of communities that truly exist.

Quoted from Vaproductions That just goes to show you Bert that simply scripts can hype you up but since none of the people here are in the industry yet. We can only boost your Ego to let you down by the big boys. And from the list they chose a good 50 moviescripts over your script of the month screenplay. That can't be to good. But it places you back into reality I guess. Simply scripts is just one community of people who love you and your script of millions of communities that truly exist.

I am at a loss to respond, VA.
  
I have read your comment several times through, and I have no idea what your intent might be with such a post -- whether it be to encourage, to insult, or to commiserate in some fashion.

As for "bringing me back to reality", I assure you that is not necessary.

I am just a hobbyist on these boards -- I already have a career -- and I like to believe that on a good day I can tell a decent story.  I write for my own pleasure, and there is not much to say beyond that.

I hope you enjoyed the script if you looked -- even in part -- but from your comments I am not at all certain that you did.