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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Horror Scripts  ›  The Twelve Step Killers Moderators: bert
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  Author    The Twelve Step Killers  (currently 4747 views)
MarkRenshaw
Posted: June 15th, 2015, 2:22am Report to Moderator
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Some great tips there Max - thanks for the help. I'm going to research a load of scripts and try to find instance were such a scene is used and gather some more ideas.

The  vomit method was a necessity for me. I was putting off writing a feature and coming up with any excuse not to do so. In the end a friend just challenged me to write a feature in a month and I accepted. I’m glad I did as A – I may never have begun and B – Even if I did I could have easily spent a year of my life writing this only to discover it’s shit. A vomit draft at least is enough to test the waters, which I have in several ways and not just on this forum. The feedback will help me decide if I should carry on with this script or move onto something else.


For more of my scripts, stories, produced movies and the ocassional blog, check out my new website. CLICK
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DanC
Posted: June 15th, 2015, 7:06am Report to Moderator
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Killing villains since 1980!

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It's odd, I didn't have an issue with that at all.  

I can see why some would find that confusing.  I do agree that some rules would have to be broken.  I'm trying to think of a TV show that had a flashback and older versions talking about younger action stuff.

The Wonder Years immediately comes to mind.

I hope you do stick with it.  I found the story to be very interesting.

If I was you, I'd ask the regulars on here to read it.  See what they think.  You have enough good credit on here, right?


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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MarkRenshaw
Posted: June 15th, 2015, 7:50am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DanC
It's odd, I didn't have an issue with that at all.  

I can see why some would find that confusing.  I do agree that some rules would have to be broken.  I'm trying to think of a TV show that had a flashback and older versions talking about younger action stuff.

The Wonder Years immediately comes to mind.

I hope you do stick with it.  I found the story to be very interesting.

If I was you, I'd ask the regulars on here to read it.  See what they think.  You have enough good credit on here, right?


I’ve had about 10 people read it so far and Max is the first one to be confused by the flashbacks but that doesn’t mean I think his points are not valid, any way to make the scene read better is positive. It’s all good feedback.

Thanks for your words of encouragement Dan. I suppose I could ask people direct if they would read it but that’s not me. If people want to read and provide feedback, excellent. If they don’t want to I understand. I struggle to get time to review even shorts, taking on a feature is a bigger commitment.

Of course, anyone who doesn’t volunteer will be force-fed sprouts and then have to extract/disarm a nuclear bomb from their pancreas while bungee jumping using their intestines, into an erupting volcano...on Mars...while they has explosive diarrhoea…from the sprouts. So yeah, it’s up to you guys.



For more of my scripts, stories, produced movies and the ocassional blog, check out my new website. CLICK
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DanC
Posted: June 15th, 2015, 8:48am Report to Moderator
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Killing villains since 1980!

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Quoted from MarkRenshaw


I’ve had about 10 people read it so far and Max is the first one to be confused by the flashbacks but that doesn’t mean I think his points are not valid, any way to make the scene read better is positive. It’s all good feedback.

Thanks for your words of encouragement Dan. I suppose I could ask people direct if they would read it but that’s not me. If people want to read and provide feedback, excellent. If they don’t want to I understand. I struggle to get time to review even shorts, taking on a feature is a bigger commitment.

Of course, anyone who doesn’t volunteer will be force-fed sprouts and then have to extract/disarm a nuclear bomb from their pancreas while bungee jumping using their intestines, into an erupting volcano...on Mars...while they has explosive diarrhoea…from the sprouts. So yeah, it’s up to you guys.




Wow, that sounds like the plot to Human Centipede 3.  And that was one of the worse movies, granted, I have not seen it, nor the first 2, but, from what I have read, oh my...

The only thing I think you do wrong is that if you don't advertise, people don't know.  I know there are like 8 (possibly more) really awesome people here that do a lot of reading, but, if they don't know to look, they can't help.

You are extremely humble.  I guess I'm more aggressive.  I will read 4 things from each person and then ask them if they have time.  If not, that's fine and people respect that.  I don't read stuff hoping to get a read back.  I read stuff hoping to learn.

And I've learned so much since I joined 3 months ago.  So, I guess my point, is that the regulars on here seem to be some sort of oddball fun extended family.  I won't go on to name names, but, a lot of the people on here are really awesome.  

I have a lot of respect for people who are willing to help others, even if that means that your screenplay might knock theirs out.  That is what true karma is about.  And I honestly hope every single person on here has a lot of success.  We've all got good attitudes and deserve the good luck.

Stepping off the soap box now...


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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Max
Posted: June 15th, 2015, 9:23am Report to Moderator
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Ain't nobody write like that, bruh.

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People can always challenge me on the points I make btw.

If somebody wants to come along and dispute something I said in my original 10 page feedback, feel free.

The more back and forth we get, the more it helps anyway.

As long as it doesn't descend into a dick-measuring contest, it's okay.
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DanC
Posted: June 15th, 2015, 9:30am Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Killing villains since 1980!

Location
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Quoted from Max


As long as it doesn't descend into a dick-measuring contest, it's okay.


Max Max Max
Are you trying to tell us that you are hung like a fly?  It's okay bud.  You can still have kids, if you adopt

I agree btw, that the conversations should stay PG 13.  There is no reason to get personal or offense.  Even if you were the ONLY one who had issues

Seriously, I can see why anyone could be confused at that spot.  I guess I have seen that on TV enough times to be able to "see" the vision Mark had, so, it was easy for me, but, I can see if a person hadn't seen anything like that before hand, it'd be very confusing.

That's why I said that Mark should break a few rules and really describe what he sees from all the people involved in the flashback.  Perhaps he should explain it like a video is being shown on a closed circuit TV of his younger self.  That might make it clear enough.

Dan


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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DS
Posted: June 15th, 2015, 11:22am Report to Moderator
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Dan, where do I get some of that optimism of yours?  Your posts always ooze of it, motivating stuff!

Mark,

I read up until the arrival of the two female characters (page 20) and the script felt low-brow and aggressively over the top in a way that just didn't sit with me. I'm thinking of: Noah's character's huge comic exaggeration, cake in the face, the tied up girl with the rape jokes, Larry being assaulted and cut, the poop gag with Madison.

This could just be my personal bias, but it's disappointing that the great premise you have, which could make for a stand-out smart dark comedy, is shooting for a low-brow flick. Although, if that was the tone you were shooting for, no harm. Either way, toning those 20 pages down would be a good idea imo.

The dialogue also felt expository and too convenient. All those questions and answers in a row seemed unnatural. I'd recommend having the conversation go the way it wasn't intended to for both characters more, particularly for Noah. Maybe you could also make this Larry's first meeting with Noah, for the sake of the information dump coming through better.

You mentioned that it was a vomit draft. Writing-wise, it had that feeling to it in quite a few places. I'm sure you'll get around to beefing it up and will probably get other and better comments about the writing itself. Max already brought out a lot of good ones. A thought on the character descriptions, still:

Larry and Noah have some interesting character descriptions, I think you were going for a bit of an unique vibe with them. I thought Noah's was particularly clever, with Larry's, the peeking behind the curtain half seemed exaggerated and weird. I reckon a simpler, more straight-forward wording could work better.

On the contrary to the interesting character descriptions, the women that pop up on page 20 only have the stereotypical "pretty" character descriptions. Would that pass the Bechdel test? I reckon these descriptions could be a lot better, surely the characters are there for more than just being eye candy.

Overall, this just didn't work for me. Sorry, mate. Maybe you'll still find something useful in this post nonetheless. Gl.
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DanC
Posted: June 15th, 2015, 11:41am Report to Moderator
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Killing villains since 1980!

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Quoted from DS
Dan, where do I get some of that optimism of yours?  Your posts always ooze of it, motivating stuff!



Overall, this just didn't work for me. Sorry, mate. Maybe you'll still find something useful in this post nonetheless. Gl.


Hi DS
My secret, lots of medication bud.  Lots of meds.  I have 9 herniated discs and a crushed spinal cord with 3 cysts in my spinal canal mixed in for good measure, in case I wasn't in enough pain from the first 2 things....

Now, more seriously, my optimism I guess stems from the fact that almost everyone I have encountered on here has been really nice.  Some like Pia have a nice resume already.  Others like Dustin, Mark, Anthony, Gary, Libby etc have either optioned stuff or have had success with contests.  So, it's not a bunch of doofuses playing blind lead the blind into oblivion.

Obviously, I have no idea who will make it and who won't, but, I see talent.  And I say to myself, why not my friends on here, or me?  There are hundreds of others where we are that are as good, if not better, doing the same thing.  All we can do is network and keep helping.

The way I see it, every screenplay helps me learn when I read it and break it down.  Why does this work, oh, this is interesting how the plot was set up.  Take Bill Sarre's "The Elevator Most Belonging to Alice"  in one week, yes, ONE week for the OWC crafted a brilliant story of fantasy and horror, and the little clues were sprinkled in for the observant reader.  IMO, that's top level writing and even the pros I doubt could do much better.  

Sure, any screenplay can be made better, well, save for the Exorcist, that's pretty much perfection, but, I see talent and if people believe in themselves and persevere then they might get lucky with the writing.  

Somebody will sell a screenplay for lots of cash this year.  It happens every year.  Why NOT here?

Dan


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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DS
Posted: June 15th, 2015, 12:28pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DanC


Hi DS
My secret, lots of medication bud.  Lots of meds.  I have 9 herniated discs and a crushed spinal cord with 3 cysts in my spinal canal mixed in for good measure, in case I wasn't in enough pain from the first 2 things....

Now, more seriously, my optimism I guess stems from the fact that almost everyone I have encountered on here has been really nice.  Some like Pia have a nice resume already.  Others like Dustin, Mark, Anthony, Gary, Libby etc have either optioned stuff or have had success with contests.  So, it's not a bunch of doofuses playing blind lead the blind into oblivion.

Obviously, I have no idea who will make it and who won't, but, I see talent.  And I say to myself, why not my friends on here, or me?  There are hundreds of others where we are that are as good, if not better, doing the same thing.  All we can do is network and keep helping.

The way I see it, every screenplay helps me learn when I read it and break it down.  Why does this work, oh, this is interesting how the plot was set up.  Take Bill Sarre's "The Elevator Most Belonging to Alice"  in one week, yes, ONE week for the OWC crafted a brilliant story of fantasy and horror, and the little clues were sprinkled in for the observant reader.  IMO, that's top level writing and even the pros I doubt could do much better.  

Sure, any screenplay can be made better, well, save for the Exorcist, that's pretty much perfection, but, I see talent and if people believe in themselves and persevere then they might get lucky with the writing.  

Somebody will sell a screenplay for lots of cash this year.  It happens every year.  Why NOT here?

Dan


Sorry to hear about the back, I wish you all the best. Hear hear on the rest, I've learned a lot from here as well, tis' a nice forum with lots of talented people.
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PrussianMosby
Posted: June 27th, 2015, 5:23am Report to Moderator
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Mark,

eventually I'm through.

There's not much to say about the script from my side still I try to give some input about where I see your stuff here and how to go on from my pov. What stood out here is your craft is skillful; you're just a good screenwriter. Fact.

Interesting you took the challenge to write your first feature under those circumstances.

It's good, it was fun.

Though, if you want me to watch that film, impossible, you simply can't reach me without the fact I know you from this place. It's just a no/low budget fun that I don't get on my screen.
For that you would have to write at least quality like "Rope" or better "12 Angry Men" or "Rear Window" as a one location script- Films of this weight would be carried their way to me by feuilleton and critics.

What do I want to say? It's complete. It's good. You can pitch it to all those indie-companies, which is great, because you will get reads 100%. It's not the almost impossible route of reaching big companies.  So, my advice: polish some things, send it out like crazy, and go on. Don't invest more time in a piece that, except your love toward movies of course, could bring you rarely 5 numbers in. They simply can't expect more. It's good for what it is.

Your screenwriting is very good IMO
The plot is good.
The single plotting is good.
The dialogue seem to me as a big strength of you, and I'm usually not a fan of dialogue heavy stuff
Humor is good.
Splatter is good.
Horror was okay, interesting visuals.
Concept is very interesting for an indie-production. Exactly the stuff they do, a bit absurd, a bit sub-genre, switching tone.

Okay, I didn't have a lot to note here:

All flashbacks in the first act are executed wrong. The idea with the passenger-style is good. I was just confused how you executed everything. Sometimes they both travelled – then it seems the passenger speaks in the skin of the original-scene-character. You do some experiments there and I think to understand how you mean it and like it, still write that 100% clear. Let us distinguish them better from each other.

I think you should work that out on your own. If you ask me for help, I probably tell you every point I dislike and what confuses.

Another big point: If Noah tells Larry, he himself killed 20+x people, why does Larry not once questions Noah's ability as being a therapist??

The flashbacks are the only execution problem in first act, the above is the only thing that felt wrong in case of story there.

I've been disappointed you've killed Noah and Homn, in fact, it is very good with regard how everything continued (both great charscters)

20-25 wow it's getting sweet. Very strong. That was the moment which dragged me in finally.

You're a bit talky in case of dialogue. A low budget could easily run 70 min only. There's a lot of "Fuck, now tell me what's going on?" again and again in the script. You can delete a lot of those empty phrases IMO – things will deliver better, your script would profit.

P 58/59 Aileen seems to disappear from your writing. You need to confirm earlier she's still in the picture. P 60 is too late in case of clarity. Don't forget, you work with a lot of mystery and dreams and so on.

The monologue is hard and smart. I go with it. Concerning the whole reveal and resolution, I like. You act like a plotting machine in this chamber of madness.

The ending is weak. The last 2-3 pages could result in a bigger punch. The way it is, we leave Larry when he's almost going to kill her, only to cut to a last scene that reveals he did not. He's now a sponsor himself. You force the happy-end the wrong way imo. I think I don't like how you edited here and just cut to while we thought he really kills her. So what did happen you know? Why did he stop at your script's final plot. Just search something else to end it if you want.


Well, as said, strong screenwriting. A lot to like here, lots of fun. My advice: Get rid of typos, polish, and send it out to SEVERAL indie-companies. They simply cannot expect a better screenplay with regards to low production costs and so on. If they buy and like it, sure, you can work on it again. Otherwise, don't worry, the plot has quality, timing, rhythm. I don't know what to make better here anyway...

Try to work on the next feature play as soon as possible if you like to. Always good to have a second one I guess. You proofed to know how it's done with this one.

It's complete for what it is.

Cheers.




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PrussianMosby  -  June 27th, 2015, 6:23am
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MarkRenshaw
Posted: June 30th, 2015, 10:07am Report to Moderator
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Wow – thank you very much for reading all of the script and for writing the review. I had kind of given up on this but whenever someone does read it all, like you and Dan have, sure there are issues and it needs work (which I totally agree with) but people can see lots of potential, which is encouraging.

Sure I’ve written myself into a corner setting it all in one room but I also believe this gives me ‘room’ to develop. If someone is interested in producing this there’s no reason why it can’t go beyond one room or the story change. There doesn’t need to be a zombie aspect for example. I set it in one room to challenge myself and to make it as cheap to produce as possible. The current estimate is this will cost less than 50k to produce as it is.

Your points are very valid. I think I will give it a polish, post it on Inktip and send it out to a load of Indy companies in the hopes that someone bites.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read/review this, it is appreciated.

-Mark


For more of my scripts, stories, produced movies and the ocassional blog, check out my new website. CLICK
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