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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Horror Scripts  ›  Where the Bad Kids Go - In Production Moderators: bert
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  Author    Where the Bad Kids Go - In Production  (currently 6285 views)
ReaperCreeper
Posted: February 22nd, 2018, 6:26pm Report to Moderator
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PART 2 (pgs. 40-102):

Gotta be honest, Trent's reappearance is a bit weird, and I don't mean just in the context of the situation. He just randomly shows and casually reveals that he's Jesse's dad, with virtually zero apparent impact to it in that scene, either in the narrative or in the characters' perceptions. Then he proceeds to info-dump Jesse.

The dialogue exchange feels really off as well (Trent? My dad?). You could blink and miss that revelation, or I suppose skim and miss it, in this case. I don't know if it will be important later, but it's very, very off-putting the way this scene's currently structured. Same for the whole scene, not just the reveal. That said, the lead-up to Trent showing up as Jesse's searching the basement is very well-done.

I also noticed some gaps in logic with that conversation, some of which ties into my other notes about the cops not investigating the door upstairs. Trent had a restraining order? A lady with a restraining order out on her obviously criminal ex just immolates herself and it's instantly ruled a suicide, no questions asked? Not even a mention by Marco? Even if there's some sort of justification for it, I can see that causing a few head scratches with an audience. Maybe mention Trent was in jail at the time or something like that? Some of Jesse's dialogue is also a bit unnatural here, but less so. I could totally buy it if he's that mad at Trent (more on the pdf).

Despite some pretty heavy reservations about the dialogue here, I do like the rest of Trent's monologue where he describes how insane Helen is, especially after he explains that he found her with a knife. Barring some reservations on my end about some wording choices, that is.

My biggest (and probably my only) issue with the writing so far on the technical side is that it refuses to infer/derive meaning far too often, resulting in slightly or sometimes heavily redundant passages and dialogue, where virtually zero information would be lost if you trimmed almost every single paragraph in half. I do cite examples in the pdf, but here's one of them:
"I grabbed her hand that had the knife and managed to knock it from her."
Grammatically sound, but not much else; it's not natural-sounding and there's no inferred meaning there whatsoever as with real conversations. How about --
"I grabbed her hand and managed to knock the knife away from her." OR...
"I grabbed her knife-hand and managed to knock the damn thing away from her." Or even simply...
"I grabbed her and managed to knock the knife out of her hand"
Not verbatim, necessarily, but you probably get the gist. I think the audience would still "get it."

I generally like Marco and Jesse's scene after this. However, the cop on the radio seems fully aware that Trent was Jesse's dad, where Jesse wasn't. As Jesse's friend, wouldn't Marco had said something way before? Honestly, it may be better if Jesse just knew from the very beginning of the story that Trent's his dad. It doesn't really work as-is, even as a minor twist. Maybe it worked better in short story form, but it keeps rearing its head here -- I'd honestly just axe it and make it so Jesse just knows. Would it really change that much?

Trent's off-screen death was a bit disappointing/predictable, but I can live with it. Marco does act a bit out of character when he instantly accuses (or seems to accuse) Jesse of killing him. I know he's a cop, but I feel that his "copness" shows up literally only at the wrong times lol. I like the "Is there something you're not telling me?" line, but that little exchange right after goes on a bit too long.

I feel like the rising action is starting unravel at this point, 53 pages in. Some would probably tell you that's just too damn long for a horror film, but it's your story, and I happen to believe that story structure is malleable to a degree. I just feel like I should mention that, since those comments will undoubtedly pop up eventually.

Autospy tech is definitely trolling... just "rather" shocking, yeah... sure... Great scene btw.

Helen's "I'm sorry" in the beginning gave me a nagging suspicion that she wasn't entirely herself. I thought it was creepy at the time, but it would perhaps work better if you removed those lines. I don't mind telegraphing twists that much, but I know people who do.

I really like that the counting scene in the beginning paid off.

The tiny cuts where Jesse's pretty much losing it go on a little too long (collectively, I mean), enough that I got lost at least a couple of times. I would keep them, since they're effective on the whole, but I'd trim 'em down just a small, tiny bit. They also pad the length of the script a lot IMO, since there are so many dialogue breaks. Not sure how I would remedy that though.

Jesse telling off Marco (pg. 73ish) was pretty heart-wrenching. Over all, I think you earned that one. Keep that!

At some point when everything's going to hell you refer to the creature as having "beady eyes," which to me made It sound cute (made me think of an adorable mouse). I highly suggest an alternative adjective, almost any other. Pulled me right out of the scene, which was quite engrossing otherwise. Page 85, I think.

I totally was right about the house being a character.

Someone else already said this, but Jesse truly becomes a passive protagonist towards the end. Personally, though, I don't mind, since Marco and even Helen pretty much take up the role of the heroes by then, at least for a little bit.

IMO, the script should have straight up stopped by page 95 or thereabouts. It's touching the way it is, sure, but it also goes on forever, long after the climax has passed. I'd trim the hell out it, but still keep it, since the message, in the end, is a good one. I just don't feel the ginourmous epilogue actually ties up as many loose ends as you perhaps intended.

Over all, it's pretty solid. The grievances I have with it are probably 30% story, 70% technical. It's a good tale, but I do feel that it has certain readability issues. Will send over the pdf. If I can't do it in a PM, which avenue would you prefer?

Nice job.

--Julio
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Zombie Sean
Posted: February 22nd, 2018, 7:23pm Report to Moderator
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Reaper--

Thanks for reading the rest of the script!

You're not the first person to mention that Trent's reappearance was out of the blue. I've been thinking of adding in the funeral scene at the cemetery, a moment where Jesse sees Trent standing and watching the funeral from afar. That way when he appears later, it would make more sense.

You do have a point about how Helen's death was instantly ruled as a suicide, when she has a restraining order against her ex. Maybe in the phone conversation at the beginning, the Deputy could say something along the lines of, "Yeah, we though it was Trent, her ex, but he had an alibi." What do you think?

I'll look through these long conversation scenes again and trim the dialogue down even further. You should've seen this script, these scenes were probably twice as long as they are now! Ha.

Helen's "I'm Sorry" is supposed to be sorta her catchphrase, I guess. One of those things that Jesse remembers her for.

I think I might keep the tiny cuts of dialogue because I expect it to be quick cuts, and each page is really only, like, 15 seconds long while he's talking to himself (instead of the traditional minute). I'm not sure how to trim back the dialogue without him sounding less crazy. I dunno. I like how it reads

You really think 'Beady Eyes' reads as too cute?? lmao I can see why, but I don't know how else I could describe it!

Yes this is a very slow burn script, and I've been told that it doesn't have a lot of plot points as most movies should, but I feel it has a constant pace to it, until the very end at least. It's a slow, steady ride where each scene reveals something new (almost), and then the last 30 minutes or so is when it really picks up...

...Except for the very end, where it apparently slows down greatly! You're not the only person to point that out, either! I'm gonna try and trim up the ending even further, and I think I know how. Hopefully it works out. I've already trimmed a lot of it, I'm afraid to take anymore out! If it still doesn't work out, I think I know where to stop.

Thanks again for the read. I'd love to see the pdf. You can email it to me, if you'd like. Or PM me a link to a Google Drive or Dropbox file.

Thanks! Much appreciated!
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SteveUK
Posted: February 23rd, 2018, 6:53pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Sean,

I really enjoyed this - a good story, well written with plenty of creative scares.

You set an ominous mood early on and maintain it throughout with an increasingly creepy atmosphere to the script.

It was a brave choice to have a potential gay romance between two male characters in this type of story - it’s not something I’d have expected in a low budget psychological horror, but I thought you handled it really well.

While the writing was strong in general, I thought the dialogue could do with a bit of work in parts - sometimes it comes off a little on-the-nose, especially in the early scenes between Jesse and Marco, and when Jesse is reunited with Trent. For example, Jesse saying “So, you’re a cop now?” to Marco after he’s just got out of a police car in full uniform.

One issue that stood out to me was that you seemed to show too much at times and over-explain things when it would probably more effective if things were left more ambiguous. There were three occasions when this happened:

1 - When Trent and Jesse are reunited in the basement, Trent goes into a long story explaining what happened between him and Helen the night he supposedly attacked her. He describes in detail the way she behaved, how she looked and sounded, what she said, that she hadn’t been drinking, how strong she seemed, the strange way the mattress sank in etc. This felt like too much information and would be better IMO if Trent still seemed a little sketchy while pleading his innocence to at least keep us guessing if he’s completely telling the truth instead of giving a coherent account of exactly what happened.

2 - When Jesse find’s Helen’s letter in the mattress it felt like a big exposition dump. Helen starts telling the backstory of first moving to the house and the whole story of hearing the voices etc. - Again, this felt like more information than we needed. We already know something is wrong in the house, and in the scenes following this we see Jesse start to go crazy because of the voices. If anything, having Helen explain what happened to her lessens the impact of what happens to Jesse because we already know what to expect. It might work better if instead of finding a long letter written for him, he finds incoherent ramblings that hint at what happened instead of explaining everything in detail.

3 - The second letter that Jesse finds in the Bible at the end seemed like another big exposition dump - it’s four pages of backstory and flashbacks that don’t really add anything to the overall story - we already know what caused Helen’s behaviour and that she wasn’t really evil. It just felt like you were trying to wrap everything up in a nice little happy ending, and personally I didn’t feel it was necessary.

The only other thing that I thought you could possibly improve was how easy it seemed for Jesse in the end. I like the way you forced him to have to go back into the crawlspace, but he seems to triumph  without really having to do anything - the fire is started by the bulb bursting, Helen appears and tells him that all he has to do is forgive her, then the firemen save him. It just felt all too easy - I was expecting him to have to battle The Thing in some way, but it just kind of sits in the corner doing nothing.

Despite that, I genuinely really like this, and with a bit of work I think it could be even better. You’ve got a good story, interesting characters, a strong theme and loads of effectively creepy moments - I could definitely see this getting made.
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Zombie Sean
Posted: February 23rd, 2018, 8:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
Hey Sean,

I really enjoyed this - a good story, well written with plenty of creative scares.

You set an ominous mood early on and maintain it throughout with an increasingly creepy atmosphere to the script.

It was a brave choice to have a potential gay romance between two male characters in this type of story - it’s not something I’d have expected in a low budget psychological horror, but I thought you handled it really well.


Hey thanks for giving this a read, Steve. I'm glad you appreciated it for what it was worth, and that you enjoyed the scares sprinkled here and there, as well as the romance subplot. I tried to make it as subtle as possible.


Quoted Text
One issue that stood out to me was that you seemed to show too much at times and over-explain things when it would probably more effective if things were left more ambiguous. There were three occasions when this happened:

1 - When Trent and Jesse are reunited in the basement, Trent goes into a long story explaining what happened between him and Helen the night he supposedly attacked her. He describes in detail the way she behaved, how she looked and sounded, what she said, that she hadn’t been drinking, how strong she seemed, the strange way the mattress sank in etc. This felt like too much information and would be better IMO if Trent still seemed a little sketchy while pleading his innocence to at least keep us guessing if he’s completely telling the truth instead of giving a coherent account of exactly what happened.


That's actually a good idea, having Trent be kind of sketchy and a bit twitchy (he is high after all). I just don't know how to fit in there because I've already trimmed this scene down so much. It used to be, like, 8 pages long and went into more depth about Helen's insanity. I've trimmed it up some just now and it does read a little better, but I honestly don't know what else to take without taking away details that I like.


Quoted Text
2 - When Jesse find’s Helen’s letter in the mattress it felt like a big exposition dump. Helen starts telling the backstory of first moving to the house and the whole story of hearing the voices etc. - Again, this felt like more information than we needed. We already know something is wrong in the house, and in the scenes following this we see Jesse start to go crazy because of the voices. If anything, having Helen explain what happened to her lessens the impact of what happens to Jesse because we already know what to expect. It might work better if instead of finding a long letter written for him, he finds incoherent ramblings that hint at what happened instead of explaining everything in detail.


Yet another scene that cut dramatically as it used to be a lot longer than it is now. I went through this as well and cleaned up what I could, but I kept what I thought was vital to the story. I'll continue to go through it and see what else I can get rid of.


Quoted Text
3 - The second letter that Jesse finds in the Bible at the end seemed like another big exposition dump - it’s four pages of backstory and flashbacks that don’t really add anything to the overall story - we already know what caused Helen’s behaviour and that she wasn’t really evil. It just felt like you were trying to wrap everything up in a nice little happy ending, and personally I didn’t feel it was necessary.


And yet another scene that I cut dramatically, lol. I think I'm going to keep this letter in the story because it's supposed to close up Helen's suffering and reveal that she wasn't actually the bad guy after all. But as stated above, I'll continue to go through it and see what else I can get rid of.


Quoted Text
The only other thing that I thought you could possibly improve was how easy it seemed for Jesse in the end. I like the way you forced him to have to go back into the crawlspace, but he seems to triumph  without really having to do anything - the fire is started by the bulb bursting, Helen appears and tells him that all he has to do is forgive her, then the firemen save him. It just felt all too easy - I was expecting him to have to battle The Thing in some way, but it just kind of sits in the corner doing nothing.


If you haven't figured it out already, The Thing is supposed to be a metaphor for depression/mental illness. I wanted it to really not do anything, because that's how I view depression in real life. It's not something that can pick you up and throw you across the room. It's something that slowly overtakes you through your weaknesses and brings you down just by existing.

I honestly didn't want a big showdown between Demon and Protagonist because 1) i felt that it would be too cheesy, lol and 2) it wasn't what I wanted when it came to giving The Thing a metaphoric overtone. It's just sitting there watching Jesse because it didn't have to do anything anymore. Jesse was the one who initiated the fire by pouring gas everywhere. The Thing made the light bulb burst and then just had to watch the show go down. And then Marco comes and saves the day (in the short story, there's a part where the narrator says something along the lines of Helen staring at Marco with such enmity, as if he were going to save Jesse from her, i.e. It). I don't really want to change the climax just because I've planned it out so well and had it flow so well.   Sorry, I had to say it!

Though I can see how you see it being easy for Jesse during this moment, remember that he's trapped in a crawlspace choking on smoke, and quite honestly, his mother's most likely a hallucination (or, if you wanna get spiritual with it, it could be him having a near-death experience and seeing his mother's spirit). It's not so easy for him because he's literally dying, but then the firemen save him at the very last minute before he gets crushed by the burning house.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks again for reading! Your notes were very helpful! I gotta work on the dialogue, and I'm gonna see where I can still trim up some of those longer scenes with lotsa talking. I would love to see this get made, too. It would be pretty easy, apart from the house burning scene (but I could think of a few ways to work that out)...
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SteveUK
Posted: February 24th, 2018, 7:30am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Zombie Sean

If you haven't figured it out already, The Thing is supposed to be a metaphor for depression/mental illness. I wanted it to really not do anything, because that's how I view depression in real life. It's not something that can pick you up and throw you across the room. It's something that slowly overtakes you through your weaknesses and brings you down just by existing.


Early on I was thinking that the story was more about mental illness and the voices/monster were personal demons, but as it went on my thinking changed, mostly due to things that are said and happen later in the script.

When Trent is talking to Jesse in the basement he describes Helen as if she were possessed by some kind of evil spirit - talking in the third person; laughing like a witch; having the strength of two people; the mattress sinking in as if some invisible force is there.

After that scene I had completely changed my mind and assumed that there was a demonic spirit in the house as Trent wouldn’t see or feel those things if it was just Helen going crazy.

Also, Helen’s descriptions in the letter that Jesse finds in the mattress also make it sound more like supernatural events that are actually happening to her rather than something psychological. Her writing is too specific and detailed, like she’s telling a coherent story rather than someone suffering a psychotic episode.

Something that I forgot to mention previously was that it stood out to me as a little random that Jesse found two letters hidden in the mattress that were written in 1999 & 2015. It might work better if instead of letters that were written six years apart he was to find some kind of journal, possibly damaged in the fire that only allows him to read snippets of what she was going through rather than a linear backstory.


Quoted from Zombie Sean

I honestly didn't want a big showdown between Demon and Protagonist because 1) i felt that it would be too cheesy, lol and 2) it wasn't what I wanted when it came to giving The Thing a metaphoric overtone.


I completely understand and agree that there shouldn’t be a battle between Jesse and the thing in this context now, but something that should be changed is the house screaming as it burns - if there’s nothing supernatural happening, why would Marco and the firemen hear the tortured wails as they extinguish the flames? It would make more sense if only Jesse hears the screams as his inner demons are dying.


Quoted from Zombie Sean

Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks again for reading! Your notes were very helpful! I gotta work on the dialogue, and I'm gonna see where I can still trim up some of those longer scenes with lotsa talking. I would love to see this get made, too. It would be pretty easy, apart from the house burning scene (but I could think of a few ways to work that out)...


It was my pleasure! And feel free to shoot me a pm if you’d like me to read the rewrite - I’d be more than happy to.
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Zombie Sean
Posted: February 24th, 2018, 12:59pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
When Trent is talking to Jesse in the basement he describes Helen as if she were possessed by some kind of evil spirit - talking in the third person; laughing like a witch; having the strength of two people; the mattress sinking in as if some invisible force is there.

After that scene I had completely changed my mind and assumed that there was a demonic spirit in the house as Trent wouldn’t see or feel those things if it was just Helen going crazy.

Also, Helen’s descriptions in the letter that Jesse finds in the mattress also make it sound more like supernatural events that are actually happening to her rather than something psychological. Her writing is too specific and detailed, like she’s telling a coherent story rather than someone suffering a psychotic episode...

...something that should be changed is the house screaming as it burns - if there’s nothing supernatural happening, why would Marco and the firemen hear the tortured wails as they extinguish the flames? It would make more sense if only Jesse hears the screams as his inner demons are dying.


You do make a good point. I was trying to juggle between the two and make the audience wonder if it's real or if it's all in Jesse's head. Maybe I made it a little too real, but I dunno. There was a psychiatrist scene in an early draft where the psychiatrist explained all of the phenomenons that happened to Jesse, but people thought it was too redundant as we already guessed it all.


Quoted Text
Something that I forgot to mention previously was that it stood out to me as a little random that Jesse found two letters hidden in the mattress that were written in 1999 & 2015. It might work better if instead of letters that were written six years apart he was to find some kind of journal, possibly damaged in the fire that only allows him to read snippets of what she was going through rather than a linear backstory.


I honestly don't know why I chose those dates. I guess it was to show that she's been crazy all this time. I like the idea of a burnt journal, it would tie in with how he keeps a journal too. Though the letters already kinda do that. But it would make more sense than a slice in a mattress with the letters stuff in there...though I wanted that to tie in with her standing over Jesse with a knife ready to stab him.

Thanks again for all of your notes! They've been helpful
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Curt
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I hope my critique helps as you as much as yours helped mine. Coincidentally, a lot of things you said to look for I kept my eye on!

First off, it was really easy to read. I didn't realise how big of a feat that is until reading some of these other comments, but with your montages, voiceovers, jump cuts, I was still able to visualise it all without trouble and follow your story. And all your special "things" (montages, cuts, etc) made sense.

You also don't critique out of your ass- you brought up how my story is a slow burner and could benefit from a few more scares or characters noticing things, and I see what you mean. Jesse and Marco see the basement door, and in the next scene you actually go into it. You also did a good amount of montage to take Jesse to his scares, which didn't detract at all from the movie in my head. BUT . . .

That beginning I think is way too off-beat for a horror film. Like, ideally I want to go into a horror film feeling scared and dread; with yours, it plays more like a drama and I don't know if I would stick around. I think showing less child abuse happening, and more the results from it could help in that aspect. There's a movie called CHAINED which I saw a while back. A serial killer kidnaps a kid and obviously abuses him. But if I remember correctly, it took a long time before anything like "dragging a kid violently down steps" happened. It was mostly bruises, cuts, malnourishment. Might be something to think about.

I also think The Thing doesn't need to be seen. Or seen a lot less since it reminded me, in appearance, of The Crooked Man and I just love that visual. But in the only moments that stand out to me, The Thing doesn't do much (he crawls into bed and lays wheezing on the ground for the most part, correct?). I think physically taking him out would at least be a good exercise. But it seemed like a creature that's really shy which . . . is sort of adorable!

Regardless, you don't talk out of your ass. I see now how scares can build into the next scare and build into the next. Introduce the basement, then introduce a potential threat, and just keep having that threat appear whether via voices, flashbacks, or shadows. I understand that. And I do understand your subtext!

And I wish I would've known about this forum sooner 'cause I'm originally from not too far away from you   
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Zombie Sean
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Hey Curt, thanks for reciprocating! As I said, our stories sound quite similar, but are vastly different. I'm glad that it was an easy read for you! I used to write with long, descriptive descriptions which I believe now would weigh down the script's reading ability. Short, to the point sentences make for a faster, cleaner read, now that I've tried it out. Just say what needs to be said and leave the details to the director.

This story is as much of a drama as it is a horror, though I want it to be mainly horror as it has quite a few disturbing imagery in it. Child abuse is a horrific thing, but I do understand why you think it's more dramatic. I don't wanna see this playing on Lifetime if you're thinking it's that kind of movie when it first starts. I've never seen Chained but I will see if I can find it and give it a watch, as I'm interested in how you mean.

I felt that The Thing isn't really seen that much, and really only seen toward the end, when the rest are just bits and pieces of It. I wanted something scary to have manifested from Helen's mental illness because it is her personal demon. Depression is like another being in the room, and it hangs around and other people can feel it. So I wanted to give it a face. If this were to ever get filmed, The Thing would not be seen very much, either due to it being dark/nighttime, or quick cuts of what it looks like, etc. If done right.

I've never seen The Crooked Man either, but I will also look that up and watch it (and I'm not going to look up what he looks like because I don't want to spoil it for myself). I also didn't really describe what the creature looks like TOO much so that if this were ever directed by someone, they could conjure up their own idea of what the creature looks like with the details I've provided. Plus, I go into more detail of what the creature looks like in the short story if they would ever use that for inspiration. It would be a good exercise to take The Thing out, but since It's such a prominent character, it would be quite difficult! And, adorable...lol...

Thanks again for reading. I'm happy to hear that you've used my script as a learning tool. I think (and hope) I've done everything a right as possible in my script. I love horror so I try my best to create my own. Too bad we couldn't have met sooner if you've lived close by before!
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 8th, 2018, 11:33am Report to Moderator
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Hey Sean, great to see a new feature from you!  You've been here at SS for a long time and it's always nice to see something new from a longtimer, like you.

Also good to see your script getting some attention on the board, and comments seem to be positive.

I don't have time to read this entire script, but I did read the first 3 pages and wanted to throw some things out to you.

Page 1 - So, let's start at the very beginning.  No FADE IN.  Obviously, a personal choice, but IMO, no reason not to use one.

First Slug is problematic to me.  You say "UNKNOWN TIME", and that's going to be true to those watching, but you're the creator here and you should know.  It doesn't really matter, obviously, but it does stand out.

Also, using "HOUSE" here is (or can be) an issue...especially in a feature, where you may have multiple houses.  I ALWAYS make it clear whose house it is, so it helps the reader know immediately where they are when a new Slug like this pops up.

Finally, for some reason, you chose to make "BASEMENT" a mini Slug, which in this example, is a mistake any way you look at it.  This scene takes place 100% in the basement.  Sure, a basement is part of a house, but here, the house part has nothing to do with anything.  Mini Slugs are great when transitioning between rooms of a structure, and having no time pass, but as used here, it's a mistake and it costs you 2 extra line for absolutely no reason.

I don't want to go into too great detail on everything, but let me just say that you used 14 lines and 6 passages to describe the basement, but in reality, what you have described here is a very typical basement - as in this is exactly what an "unfinished" basement is.

Now we get to the crawlspace.  Check this out...

"The CRAWLSPACE. An old, wooden door flap built into the far wall of the basement, shrouded in darkness. Something about this crawlspace seems wrong. Bad. This place reeks of evil." - the crawlspace door shouldn't be any older than anything else in the basement, as it was all, most likely, built at the same time.  I wouldn't use a comma between "old" and "wooden", either.  "of the basement" is a waste of words, as we know we're in the basement.  Your next 2 sentences are obviously you telling us that we need to understand the crawlspace is bad, evil, etc, but you haven't shown us anything that would make us think or realize this.

For me, The use of (O.S.) isn't quite right, but I get what you're after here.

You say Helen is "30's".  As I always say, give your characters an exact age.  There is a HUGE difference between 30 and 39, especially if she has an 8 year old son.

It would not be easy for Helen to lift open the crawlspace door, hook it to stay open, and pick up an 8 year old screaming, fighting kid and toss him into the crawlspace.  Actually, it would be quite difficult for her to accomplish this.

The crawlspace shouldn't have a dirt floor, actually.  Usually, they are unpolished cement, unless this crawlspace is not actually part of the house.  And, usually, there are light sockets in a crawlspace, as they are used for storage.  Just saying...

OK, on to Page 2...

So, you start with a V.O., but since no one has seen or heard Jesse speak at this age (which we don't know, BTW, as we don't know when she tried to kill him, and I assume it wasn't the opening scene when he was .

Then we go to some "HOUSE", and we have Helen again, but no age is given, so I have to assume she's the same age as in the opening (30's).

The next VO doesn't work for me at all, as it's all just an info dump you're feeding us, but not showing us, and BTW, using VO's is tricky, as you're basically telling us this is a certain person's story and he/she is narrating, and alive at the end of the story (or else, how could they be narrating?).

You've also chosen again to use a Mini Slug for HELEN's BEDROOM, which again, as used, is incorrect.  You can switch to Mini Slugs, but you never want to start with one.

Then you do it again right after the VO.  Note how your Slug is identical to the preceding Slug - and it should not be, as this is a completely new locale.

So, now we see Jesse is 3, meaning, this is 5 years prior to the opening scene, and Helen's age is now a real mystery, as she could be anywhere from 25 to 34.  Basically, you're flashing back without using a FLASHBACK.

OK, check this out - "Young Jesse (3) hides under the bed with his hands over his
ears. He sobs quietly as he stares out his bedroom door and down the hall into Helen’s bedroom." - First of all, this is a very, VERY tough shot to pull off.  Even filming a kid under a bed can be tough, as you need the right kind of bed in which he can be seen.  But what makes it extremely difficult is the 2nd part of your sentence. It's basically a POV from Jesse's perspective, and you have to have his bedroom door line up with Helen's bedroom door (as in at 2 ends of a hallway, which isn't the way most hallways/bedrooms are set up, as you don't want peeps being able to look into someone else's bedroom, from their own bedroom).  Know what I'm saying?

I'm going to stop there.  Hopefully, these things make sense and you can decide if you agree with me or not, as I'm just trying to help.

Best of luck with this, Sean.


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Dreamscale  -  March 8th, 2018, 8:34pm
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Zombie Sean
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Thanks for taking a look at the first three pages here!


Quoted Text
Page 1 - So, let's start at the very beginning.  No FADE IN.  Obviously, a personal choice, but IMO, no reason not to use one.

First Slug is problematic to me.  You say "UNKNOWN TIME", and that's going to be true to those watching, but you're the creator here and you should know.  It doesn't really matter, obviously, but it does stand out.

Also, using "HOUSE" here is (or can be) an issue...especially in a feature, where you may have multiple houses.  I ALWAYS make it clear whose house it is, so it helps the reader know immediately where they are when a new Slug like this pops up.


For some reason, I've just never been too keen on using FADE IN with my scripts. I guess it's just a personal choice, but it wouldn't change this script and would actually be appropriate for a FADE IN.

Does the time of day really matter if we don't actually see it? I feel UNKNOWN TIME would be most appropriate since it's an interior location, in a scene where the time of day is not crucial to the movement of the story. I could put DAY or NIGHT in there (Night would probably be more 'effective') but in the end, I feel it's a bit superfluous in a way. Again, I guess it's just personal choice.

And since there's only one house in this entire story, I feel it would be okay to use INT/EXT. HOUSE, but I do see why it would be a good idea to give it more of a name and distinguish it from just a general location. Julio in one of his comments mentioned that the house is even enough of a character on its own to give it a name.


Quoted Text
Finally, for some reason, you chose to make "BASEMENT" a mini Slug, which in this example, is a mistake any way you look at it.  This scene takes place 100% in the basement.  Sure, a basement is part of a house, but here, the house part has nothing to do with anything.  Mini Slugs are great when transitioning between rooms of a structure, and having no time pass, but as used here, it's a mistake and it costs you 2 extra line for absolutely no reason.


Further into the script, the mini slugs play more of a role, so I figured I would keep it consistent throughout the script. I don't want to have mini slugs sprinkled throughout the script, but none at the beginning of each scene, because I feel that would be inconsistent, which I do not want. What's your opinion on that? Do you feel it would feel a bit unbalanced, to have mini slugs throughout the script, but none at the start of each scene (especially in the house)? Maybe if you find the time to read further into the script, it'll make more sense?


Quoted Text
Now we get to the crawlspace.  Check this out...

"The CRAWLSPACE. An old, wooden door flap built into the far wall of the basement, shrouded in darkness. Something about this crawlspace seems wrong. Bad. This place reeks of evil." - the crawlspace door shouldn't be any older than anything else in the basement, as it was all, most likely, built at the same time.  I wouldn't use a comma between "old" and "wooden", either.  "of the basement" is a waste of words, as we know we're in the basement.  Your next 2 sentences are obviously you telling us that we need to understand the crawlspace is bad, evil, etc, but you haven't shown us anything that would make us think or realize this.

For me, The use of (O.S.) isn't quite right, but I get what you're after here.

You say Helen is "30's".  As I always say, give your characters an exact age.  There is a HUGE difference between 30 and 39, especially if she has an 8 year old son.

It would not be easy for Helen to lift open the crawlspace door, hook it to stay open, and pick up an 8 year old screaming, fighting kid and toss him into the crawlspace.  Actually, it would be quite difficult for her to accomplish this.

The crawlspace shouldn't have a dirt floor, actually.  Usually, they are unpolished cement, unless this crawlspace is not actually part of the house.  And, usually, there are light sockets in a crawlspace, as they are used for storage.  Just saying...


Thanks for helping me clean up the crawlspace description. I know that a screenwriter shouldn't tell, and should show instead, but I guess I just like the description. And admittedly, I don't really know how to show the crawlspace being bad. I guess the action of a screaming boy being thrown inside of it shows that it's bad enough, and further into the script we find out why, but I wanted to make it apparent as soon as possible that this was not a good place.

How is the usage of (O.S.) not right? Genuinely curious.

I've thought about giving the characters specific ages but wasn't entirely sure. I figured it would be, yet again, another personal choice to either have an age range, or specific age. While I do understand that there is a noticeable difference between 30 and 39, does the age really help push the story further than it already is going? I'll consider this further as I do think it's a good point. I just don't know if it justifies actually changing (for myself, at least, but to each their own).

You make a point about Helen multi-tasking with a kicking and screaming 8-year-old. Maybe I could have Young Jesse trying to pull away from her grasp.

I think all crawlspaces are different. For instance, my crawlspace in my home has a dirt floor, cinderblock columns, and only one crummy light fixture at the entrance. My parent's crawlspace is a little bit more luxurious but it still has a dirt floor. And have you looked up on Google Images the word 'crawlspace'?


Quoted Text
OK, on to Page 2...

So, you start with a V.O., but since no one has seen or heard Jesse speak at this age (which we don't know, BTW, as we don't know when she tried to kill him, and I assume it wasn't the opening scene when he was .

Then we go to some "HOUSE", and we have Helen again, but no age is given, so I have to assume she's the same age as in the opening (30's).

The next VO doesn't work for me at all, as it's all just an info dump you're feeding us, but not showing us, and BTW, using VO's is tricky, as you're basically telling us this is a certain person's story and he/she is narrating, and alive at the end of the story (or else, how could they be narrating?).


I assumed it would be distinguishable enough between Young Jesse and just Jesse. As an example, how would you start with this V.O. and let the reader know that it's adult Jesse, and not Young Jesse?

And you are correct, Helen is the same age as she was in the opening. I didn't want to put the age next to her in every scene because I feel it would become too redundant. But I can see why you might get confused while reading.

The next VO is something I've struggled with keeping. I like it, but at the same time I hate it because, you're right, it is an info dump. But it's such a small piece of information that I've kept it because I feel it doesn't detract from the story, and just gives you a brief idea of who Helen is before you really get to know her. Same with Trent. And I don't mind if the VOs give away that Jesse remains alive at the end of the story (SPOILERS!!! but you've figured it out already).


Quoted Text
So, now we see Jesse is 3, meaning, this is 5 years prior to the opening scene, and Helen's age is now a real mystery, as she could be anywhere from 25 to 34.  Basically, you're flashing back without using a FLASHBACK.

OK, check this out - "Young Jesse (3) hides under the bed with his hands over his
ears. He sobs quietly as he stares out his bedroom door and down the hall into Helen’s bedroom." - First of all, this is a very, VERY tough shot to pull off.  Even filming a kid under a bed can be tough, as you need the right kind of bed in which he can be seen.  But what makes it extremely difficult is the 2nd part of your sentence. It's basically a POV from Jesse's perspective, and you have to have his bedroom door line up with Helen's bedroom door (as in at 2 ends of a hallway, which isn't the way most hallways/bedrooms are set up, as you don't want peeps being able to look into someone else's bedroom, from their own bedroom).  Know what I'm saying?


...it says at the very top of Page 3 that Helen is in her 20s...unless you're talking about specific age again.

1) What do you mean that he needs the right kind of bed to be seen? It's a regular bed that he can hide under, and he would be peeking out from the space beneath it. I could imagine the camera being at floor level with Young Jesse, and then tracking away from him and craning upward as it pans to down the hallway toward Helen's bedroom. But that's if I were to direct this 2) I do know what you're saying, and that's actually exactly how I picture the hallway being structured, even if hallways aren't typically structured like that. I wanted a way for Helen to always be able to look into Jesse's bedroom.

Anyway, I do hope that you continue reading because I'm interested in what else you have to say about it (I know how deep you go into your critiquing). I would just have to prepare myself for you to rip it apart!
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Curt
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Quoted from Zombie Sean
Hey Curt, thanks for reciprocating! As I said, our stories sound quite similar, but are vastly different. I'm glad that it was an easy read for you! I used to write with long, descriptive descriptions which I believe now would weigh down the script's reading ability. Short, to the point sentences make for a faster, cleaner read, now that I've tried it out. Just say what needs to be said and leave the details to the director.

This story is as much of a drama as it is a horror, though I want it to be mainly horror as it has quite a few disturbing imagery in it. Child abuse is a horrific thing, but I do understand why you think it's more dramatic. I don't wanna see this playing on Lifetime if you're thinking it's that kind of movie when it first starts. I've never seen Chained but I will see if I can find it and give it a watch, as I'm interested in how you mean.

I felt that The Thing isn't really seen that much, and really only seen toward the end, when the rest are just bits and pieces of It. I wanted something scary to have manifested from Helen's mental illness because it is her personal demon. Depression is like another being in the room, and it hangs around and other people can feel it. So I wanted to give it a face. If this were to ever get filmed, The Thing would not be seen very much, either due to it being dark/nighttime, or quick cuts of what it looks like, etc. If done right.

I've never seen The Crooked Man either, but I will also look that up and watch it (and I'm not going to look up what he looks like because I don't want to spoil it for myself). I also didn't really describe what the creature looks like TOO much so that if this were ever directed by someone, they could conjure up their own idea of what the creature looks like with the details I've provided. Plus, I go into more detail of what the creature looks like in the short story if they would ever use that for inspiration. It would be a good exercise to take The Thing out, but since It's such a prominent character, it would be quite difficult! And, adorable...lol...

Thanks again for reading. I'm happy to hear that you've used my script as a learning tool. I think (and hope) I've done everything a right as possible in my script. I love horror so I try my best to create my own. Too bad we couldn't have met sooner if you've lived close by before!

Yes, they are very similar- it was definitely a familiar read and a good learning tool!

As far as The Crooked Man, that's actually just a scare in The Conjuring 2. But that character stuck out to me when I watched it, and so when you described The Thing, it just reminded me of him (albeit I see yours as more of a slenderman type than a lanky man in a hat type). So yeah, every time you mentioned it I already had a "default" character, so to speak, to jump to. It may have also been that instead of describing it as "something" in the shadows, you described it as . . . Actually, it's all on Page 39. That's The Thing, right? If not, I mis-understood the character on that page, which is a definite possibility!

It would be interesting to see on Lifetime though
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Zombie Sean
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Quoted Text
As far as The Crooked Man, that's actually just a scare in The Conjuring 2. But that character stuck out to me when I watched it, and so when you described The Thing, it just reminded me of him (albeit I see yours as more of a slenderman type than a lanky man in a hat type). So yeah, every time you mentioned it I already had a "default" character, so to speak, to jump to. It may have also been that instead of describing it as "something" in the shadows, you described it as . . . Actually, it's all on Page 39. That's The Thing, right? If not, I mis-understood the character on that page, which is a definite possibility!


Ah, okay, now that sounds familiar. I knew I heard that name before, but I just couldn't remember exactly! But you're right, it's more of a Slenderman type of creature. Page 39 is the first time that we see THE THING, but I wanted the reader/audience to think it was a man at first. Since the demon is more of a humanoid than anything, It would be mistaken for a man. But in the end, I'd leave the creature design up to the director, based on the details I've given.


Quoted Text
It would be interesting to see on Lifetime though


Would it really, though? I guess it's different enough from the rest of the stuff they play on there. But hey, even if it did show up on that channel, at least it's something!
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JordanB
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Damn this is a brutal story. I loved it. You guided me through this dark world really well with very creative techniques. Well done.  As the script is already very solid, I’ll offer some small ideas that came to mind.

Perhaps have Helen violently force the Bible onto a young Jesse. This would at first add to her already demented persona but will change later on as we understand she was trying to actually protect her son with Biblical scriptures.  

Page 6  - When there is a transition from young Jesse to old Jesse, I would consider using a transitional method by writer William Monahan whereby he uses the eyes as an age leap. For example, in The Departed he writes…

ECU: COLIN’S EYES swerve up. We are now on (MATURE) COLIN’S EYES eyes. This is how the character transits the “age leap”...on the unchanging eyes.    

I immediately thought of this due to my perception of young Jesse. To me, he has a kind of innocent set of blue eyes. Anyway, it’s just a suggestion. No biggie.

Page 12 – This random voice has me intrigue.

Page 17 – Really liking the back and forth time lapses.

Page 28 – In addition to the attack, I wanted Helen to verbally disapprove of the adult magazine.

Page 55 -  Helluva scene with Trent in the Freezer room.

Page 73 -  You are capturing Jesse’s mental decline so well.

Page 85 – I’d cut the dialogue from Marco stating “It’s the house”. A look of realization or shock to me, would be much more impactful.

Page 87 -  I was really hoping Helen would return in spirit and help Jesse. Thank you and well done on this.  Just a thought, maybe have Helen literally save Jesse from the fire instead of a fireman.

Also, I really wanted some kind of retaliation from ‘The Thing’.  Maybe ‘The Thing’ is attacking Jesse and Helen emerges and battles it off to save her son. There MUST BE A FINAL SHOWDOWN! Hahaha.

Final thoughts – You have a very solid script here that kept me glued to the pages from start to finish. Well done and good luck with it. I hope to watch it one day.
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Zombie Sean
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Quoted Text
Damn this is a brutal story. I loved it. You guided me through this dark world really well with very creative techniques. Well done.


Thanks! This is probably my darkest story I've written so I'm glad it didn't turn you off or anything (and after reading Feed Her, I can see why you like the darkness of it).


Quoted Text
Perhaps have Helen violently force the Bible onto a young Jesse. This would at first add to her already demented persona but will change later on as we understand she was trying to actually protect her son with Biblical scriptures.  


I kind of like that idea. It would come off as crazy first, but in the end it would make sense, like you said. The question is...where would I fit them in!? I just don't want her to come off as a crazy religious lady so it would probably only be 2 or 3 Bible verses.


Quoted Text
Page 6  - When there is a transition from young Jesse to old Jesse, I would consider using a transitional method by writer William Monahan whereby he uses the eyes as an age leap. For example, in The Departed he writes…

ECU: COLIN’S EYES swerve up. We are now on (MATURE) COLIN’S EYES eyes. This is how the character transits the “age leap”...on the unchanging eyes.    

I immediately thought of this due to my perception of young Jesse. To me, he has a kind of innocent set of blue eyes. Anyway, it’s just a suggestion. No biggie.


I do like that imagery of the transition; I feel that the TITLE CARD is a good enough indicator that time has passed and we are now focusing on present day Jesse. Unless you're talking about describing the eyes after the transition (like, "all facial features have aged, however the blue and innocent child-like eyes still remain" or something like that)?


Quoted Text
Page 12 – This random voice has me intrigue.


I hope it paid off!


Quoted Text
Page 17 – Really liking the back and forth time lapses.


Thanks. I'm quite proud of them myself, especially the part where Jesse opens the door to Helen's bedroom and it's suddenly nighttime. I can just picture it all in my head and I like how it turned out, as well as the rest of the back and forth's.


Quoted Text
Page 28 – In addition to the attack, I wanted Helen to verbally disapprove of the adult magazine.


Curious, what were you wanting her to say? Or expecting her to say?


Quoted Text
Page 55 -  Helluva scene with Trent in the Freezer room.


My favorite scene. Probably the strongest scene in the entire script, in my opinion.


Quoted Text
Page 73 -  You are capturing Jesse’s mental decline so well.


Thanks! For the longest time I was thinking of how I was going to portray it, and then one day the idea clicked of having the JUMP CUTS and splitting his dialogue into bits and pieces. If filmed right, I feel it could come off as very creepy/disturbing.


Quoted Text
Page 85 – I’d cut the dialogue from Marco stating “It’s the house”. A look of realization or shock to me, would be much more impactful.


I almost--ALMOST--want to remove this line. I don't know why I like it, but at the same time the story can be just as good as without it. I want the audience to know that Marco does sort of believe that something bad is wrong with the house, but there are already indicators of that in other scenes, so I could remove it. Maybe I will...argh.


Quoted Text
Page 87 -  I was really hoping Helen would return in spirit and help Jesse. Thank you and well done on this.  Just a thought, maybe have Helen literally save Jesse from the fire instead of a fireman.

Also, I really wanted some kind of retaliation from ‘The Thing’.  Maybe ‘The Thing’ is attacking Jesse and Helen emerges and battles it off to save her son. There MUST BE A FINAL SHOWDOWN! Hahaha.


That's a good suggestion, having Helen save Jesse instead of the firemen. Though, I wanted this scene to be a 'near death experience' and he sees his mother in spirit form. Since she's a ghost/spirit she can't really do much, at least not in this horror story.

Same with The Thing, since it's supposed to be a metaphor for mental illness, it just can't really do much except hang around and torment through its own power of voice and depression/alcoholism/mental illness. As much as this story should have a showdown between protagonist and The Thing, I feel it would be out of place for the story. But I want to toy with the idea, since you're not the only person who suggested that there be a final fight/showdown with The Thing. I just don't want it to come off as too cheesy or anything. This Thing might not even exist, anyway, and could be just a figment of Jesse's imagination. Essentially, he's fighting himself. Protagonist vs. Protagonist.


Quoted Text
Final thoughts – You have a very solid script here that kept me glued to the pages from start to finish. Well done and good luck with it. I hope to watch it one day.


Thank you for reading this! And so quickly too! I'm glad you enjoyed it and your comments were insightful and are getting the gears in my head rollin'. I, too, hope to watch it one day. One can only hope!
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Philostrate
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Hey Sean,

Finally got the time to read this one.

Wow, this script is solid and I can't do anything but to congrat you for the good work.

The concept is original and you guided me skillfully through a screenplay with some creative montages, jump cuts and flashbacks.

The script is very contained and the characters, dialogue, story, pace, etc. are strong.

You grabbed my interest from the first scene and the script was easy to read and follow.

I feel that the script is very solid as it is, but I'm going to provide some suggestions, just in case they can be of use to you.

WARNING: Spoilers ahead!

Page 2) Perfect opening scene.

Page 5) I think Helen should hold the knife when the police officers enter the house since, later, she stills stares at Young Jesse with ill intention as he walks escorted by an officer through the room. She could throw the knife to the floor when the police officers enter.

Why Helen left the knife in the bed?

Page 6) Great beginning. Grabbed my interest right away.

Page 8 ) I think you could introduce the VOICES just after Jesse doubts:

DEPUTY CONNORS (V.O.)
Would you be willing to, Jesse?

JESSE
I, uh...

VOICES(V.O.)
(very faint)
Do it.

Jesse lifts his head up at the VOICES.

JESSE
What?

DEPUTY CONNORS (V.O.)
I said we have the key to the house. It wasn’t hard to find. She had it on as a necklace.

It took me a second realizing what was going on, but that's just me being picky.

Page 10) Good way to introduce Marco, I didn't expect Jesse already knew him.

Page 13) In the line:

Jesse opens the fridge full of expired foods and drinks. He retches back in disgust.

Maybe you can reverse the order for anticipation:

Jesse opens the fridge. He retches back in disgust. It's full of expired foods and drinks.

Again, just me being picky.

Page 15)

INT. HOUSE - DAY

BACK TO PRESENT

HALLWAY

I wonder if "BACK TO PRESENT" maybe should go before "INT. HOUSE - DAY"…

Page 18 ) I think Marco wouldn't want Jesse going into the basement… so I would suggest changing the dialogue from:

MARCO (CONT’D)
You wanna go down--

JESSE
(sternly)
No.
(beat)
Not now. Not yet.

To:

MARCO (CONT’D)
You aren't thinking about going down, are you?

JESSE
(sternly)
No.
(beat)
Not now. Not yet.

Or something like that…

Page 35) I was missing Marco at the funeral… but you didn't disappoint

Page 40) The man was Trent, ok. I expected it but it was solid. Good dialogue.

One question came to my mind in that scene… Is Trent Jesse’s biological father?

Jesse introduces him that way on page 2:

"Her boyfriend at the time, Trent, …"

But in this scene I felt like Trent WAS his biological father…

I suppose Jesse didn't introduce him as his father on pg. 2 because, in that moment of the story, he didn't feel like he was. Am I correct?

Page 52) Awesome scene at the freezer room!

Page 60) Maybe you could change the bold text style with underlines in the note:

PUT HIM IN THE BASEMENT.

why

DO IT.

why

HE IS A BAD KID. HE DESERVES IT.

I wouldn't ask for it if it weren't for the adjacent "BACK TO SCENE".

Anyway, is a matter of style. Do what you feel more comfortable with.

Page 62) Jesse's depression tried to slow down the script a little, but you solved it with craftmanship.

Page 82) Great end! Jesse has to confront his fears if he wants to stay alive. The basement on fire was a strong visual and I couldn't think of a better ending. But I missed one thing. Maybe it's just me, I don't know, but since the demon feeds on one's fears and insecurities, I wanted Jesse to have to confront him in the crawlspace to make it alive. I wanted the demon not to just lie aside, but to try to scare Jesse to death, giving him the opportunity to finally make a stand and defeat it (in a visual way).

I hope my comments weren't too picky because that wouldn't do justice to the great impression the script has left on me.

Hopefully, it will keep placing high in more contests until it grabs the interest of a director or producer after the box office success of horror films like Hereditary.

Best of lucks with this one.


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