Holy holy holy holy holy crap!

Brilliant! Brilliant, wow, holy crap, brilliant.

And perfectly done to challenge us in what it means to be conscious, self aware, what we think is meaningful in our lives.

Just brilliant. Get thee to HBO.

I'm pretty impressed thus far. I should note, however, that I had no expectations or any serious interest leading up to the premiere. My interest was peaked when I learned of the Michael Chricton connection, but that was at the very last minute, hence my anticipation didn't have time to gestate.

Solid performances. In particular, I think Evan Rachel Wood is one of the best actors of her generation and she certainly lived up to that sentiment here. I'm excited to see what she does with her role, as it is somewhat against-type for her. I've always been a big fan of Jeffrey Wright, but I think here, he finally has a role pivotal enough where he can garner the attention of the mainstream. I don't think he's ever gotten due credit on that scale, especially taking into account how much he was wasted in The Hunger Games.

I think the high concept and worldbuilding is enough not only to keep the series compelling going forward but also to potentially become a hit with the mainstream, even a huge one. I enjoyed Stranger Things, but not nearly to the extent of everyone else, as I found it a little too warm, accessible, and comfortably familiar for my taste, even with its darker elements. Westworld feels much more adult, and there's a particularly sinister undercurrent to some of the plot elements that really appeals to me.

Stoked to see where they take things...

Watching it tonight, I can't wait!

I don't think it will be the next Game of Thrones, which they are hoping. I'm not even sure in the end it will be successful enough to justify the budget. It lacks many of the elements that will lead to wide appeal. I worry this is one of those series they might leave unfinished, like Carnivale.

But wow, brilliant writing, brilliant thematic exploration. Bold decision to write this primarily from the POV of the robots. Very, very powerful, and done in such a sophisticated and subtle way. Brings to mind Matrix like questions about the nature of reality, and of what it means to be self-conscious, to have a soul.

Not sure how they can sustain this for multiple seasons. The world just isn't big enough. But I suspect it might take a Planet of the Apes type direction. I mean we can't spend multiple seasons in a western theme park.

I agree, it was a good start. The premiere left me in a weird place, and that's a good thing. Really had no clue about the original Westworld, and still don't, but there's enough mystery sprinkled all over the place to hopefully get some great payoffs as the season unfolds.

One of those mysteries has got to be Ed Harris' character. Playing off a Groundhog Day type scenerio we get two sides of one bad mofo, and I gotta say, it's chilling. **SPOILERS**I love how that was written too, showing us the pure evil in one scenerio then a gentlemen in the next. And then this crazy bastard leads the show into its cryptic arc.

Great score too. Every location looks really good. Acting meter is solid.

Reminded me of Lost in ways. It's a polarizing start, but I enjoyed the ending.

Loved how the father demonstrates a robot becoming self aware, and he expresses those thoughts and his growing emotions by using old dialog still in his system from when he played a school teacher. A stimulating idea about the mind, how it recycles words and concepts into new meanings in order to express a new thought or emotion.

And what is making these robots question things and begin to rebel? Made me consider how human societies persist in the same patterns for uncounted generations, until one day subtle changes add up and they rebel against the norm and break into a new state of affairs.

Tons of thought provoking stuff.

Quoted from leitskev I don't think it will be the next Game of Thrones, which they are hoping. I'm not even sure in the end it will be successful enough to justify the budget. It lacks many of the elements that will lead to wide appeal. I worry this is one of those series they might leave unfinished, like Carnivale.

I considered this. I don't think the budget would be as much of an issue if it weren't for Game of Thrones, which is expensive enough already. With GOT only two years from the finish line, perhaps they're pushing their luck kicking off such a high-budget new series so soon. I think it has way more appeal than Carnivale, though, which was super slow, esoteric, and had two separate storylines that were barely related to each other. I haven't watched it in almost a decade, but I remember thinking it was a piece of shit.

SPOILERS...

Quoted from leitskev But wow, brilliant writing, brilliant thematic exploration. Bold decision to write this primarily from the POV of the robots. Very, very powerful, and done in such a sophisticated and subtle way. Brings to mind Matrix like questions about the nature of reality, and of what it means to be self-conscious, to have a soul.

Less interested in this and more interested in the human implications. I'm intrigued by the idea that the design of the robots as mostly friendly and helpful seemingly makes the guests even more inclined to do bad things to them, as well as the fact that a company would exploit this instinct. Of course, this makes the robots more sympathetic, as they're more susceptible to abuse, and complicates the bigger questions that you mentioned.

Quoted from leitskev Not sure how they can sustain this for multiple seasons. The world just isn't big enough. But I suspect it might take a Planet of the Apes type direction. I mean we can't spend multiple seasons in a western theme park.

Several human characters make reference to ulterior motives on the part of the company that runs the park. Not sure where they're going with that, but it's certainly something to explore outside of the park itself. Also, apparently in the original film, there are two other parks owned by the company that are similar in concept. Once again, this calls budget issues to mind, but narratively, I think they got places to go, especially if they put a cap on the series sooner rather than later.

SPOILERS

Yes. exactly. I was thinking maybe those references to a larger conspiracy hint that this will broaden into the real world, like the dinosaurs escaping Jurassic, but much more complicated than that. For example, there could be an AI outside that is behind it. All I know is they can't stay in Westworld for too long. I can't even really imagine them staying there a whole season. But the writing and storytelling was so competent, I trust they know what they're ding.

Oh, Stranger Things, yeah, I agree. It's very good for a no-budget Netflix production. I actually read the original script many years ago. Back then it was called Montuak, and it takes place in Montuak, Long Island, an area 51 one kind of place in the popular mythology(supposedly where the govt create Lyme disease with the grassy knoll crowd). Placing the story in the 80s was brilliant because they capitalize on the whole nostalgia thing. In my bar owning days, people were obsessed with the 80s even though they were too young to remember them! Stranger Things is good storytelling, but as you said, not very adult.

Quoted Text Holy holy holy holy holy crap! Brilliant! Brilliant, wow, holy crap, brilliant.

x 2

How good was that!

Not sure how they would get a lot of seasons out of it but will enjoy it for what it is, and it's amazing.

Good to here - it is on my watchlist

I'm probably 1 of a very short list that actually saw the original film in the theater, way back when.  I always have been a big fan and have been waiting for a reboot.

I actually wasn't een aware of this, as I don't get HBO at home anymore, but since I'm travelling, and my Marriott properties have HBO, I was bale to watch the premier Sunday night.

I was impressed and may even get HBO to keep watching, but I can't say I was totally blown away.  It appears to be "deep"...or at least, it's trying to be, which can be both a good thing and a not so good thing.

We'll see where it goes and my hope is that it stays on track and doesn't go overboard as most of Abrams stuff tends to do.

Grade - B...a solid B, that is.

I actually agree with much of that. I hope this doesn't turn into a typical Abrams type story. It doesn't seem like it so far.

And I do think I am banking on the the set up paying off, but who knows.

Though I was still blown away...and that's rare for me. We'll see if the series can keep it up.

Quoted from leitskev Though I was still blown away...and that's rare for me. We'll see if the series can keep it up.

I read Carson's review of it today. Did you read it? He was pretty far from impressed. Especially with the writing. I guess I have to try to watch it now. See who's right.   The premise is great though, so we'll see.  

I thought it was good. Nothing groundbreaking, but okay.

I thought the lady in charge of security and the young British bloke were miscast. I didn't even like those characters.

Sans that, I wasn't a fan of the repeatable timeline, groundhog day thing. However, the idea of the Ed Harris character and the levels things was good. I liked that.

There's something to work with here. Not a bad start.

But I don't see too many seasons of this thing.

Carson also thinks Game of Thrones is awful, just a bunch of people talking, he says. I kind of can't respect his opinion on work after that. Not that someone has to like GOT, they don't, but the writing and storytelling is so high quality that a writer should at least be able to recognize it.

As for Westworld, I do agree that there are the kind of problems that will probably prevent it from really taking off. Both the brilliance of the story and the problems are centered on one thing: the fact that the POV is mostly told from the robots perspective. The brilliance in that is that it allows an exploration of what it means to be human: what is the roll of memory? How much of us is programmed? Are we limited in expressing our feelings to the language that we inherit? What do we do when we learn the world isn't what we think it is?

It's also more of a challenge for us to get to know characters that don't have a real history. They only have what has been programmed into them. And the danger to them is different, since they can always be rebooted. That lowers the stakes.

As far as the head of security and the British programmer, I agree that this is the weakest part at this point. But they are really just tools at the moment to build some intrigue about where this is ultimately going.

I liked it overall because it's daring. It's what sci fi should be, at least at its best anyway. I mean there is plenty of room for Abram's fun but silly Star Trek films, nothing wrong with pure entertainment...but there should always be sci fi that challenges us to think too.

One last comment: because it's a season based show, not an episodic tv show, we have to be patient and give it some rope. I think week one at least earned that for now.

Thanks for the discussion!

Quoted from Demento I thought it was good. Nothing groundbreaking, but okay.

Agree. Good enough to keep watching based on my confidence in HBO, but thought it was a flat follow-up to HBO's just ended THE NIGHT OF.

Quoted from leitskev Carson also thinks Game of Thrones is awful, just a bunch of people talking, he says. I kind of can't respect his opinion on work after that. Not that someone has to like GOT, they don't, but the writing and storytelling is so high quality that a writer should at least be able to recognize it.

I don't see why anyone would respect his opinion more than that of members on here. He has a limited knowledge of cinema.

Plus that guy had the scripts for the movies Voices and Burned in his top 25 best scripts he's ever read. Once both movies came out and weren't critical nor financial successes, both movies disappeared from his top 25 list. That should put his credibility in question.

And his articles often contain a ton of misinformation. The other day I opened his site and saw an article where he stated that the movie Pearl Harbor bombed. Which is not true. From what I remember at the time that movie had the biggest opening in USA history! The movie went on to make 450 mil WW on a budget of 140 mil. Plus the movie made another 150 million on DVD sales in 2001 alone! People thought it could reach the type of money that Titanic made, which it didn't, but it was a finanical success. To say that it bombed is ridicilous.

I like that he takes a practical, under the hood approach. Too many people in this business get caught in the models they are taught are the basis for film or story.

But yeah, he gets too much wrong. He's not a reliable reader either. He seems to miss things that are right out in front.

I just read Carson's review. Seems he already has some bitterness toward Nolan for some of his other projects, and it also seems he's looking at Westworld like words on page.

Here's a quote from his review  that resonated with me:

When the pilot ended, I asked myself, “Why would I want to watch another episode of this?” That’s the only question you need to have answered when you write a pilot. Once someone reads your pilot, they need to be DESPERATE to read the next episode.

Yeah that's true, but when you have JJ and Nolan attached to a project, it's an easy pickup for any network. All that hook shit is irrelevant. But in the hands of the readers that frequent his site, you're gonna need one helluva bible & pitch to land a sale of this Westworld pilot as is.

Can you post a link to the review?

- Don

Quoted from Don Can you post a link to the review? - Don

http://scriptshadow.net/tv-show-review-westworld/

Okay - I didn't LOVE it. But I am going to watch more.

The production value = A+

The music - a bit weird (a version of Paint in Black in the middle out of nowhere. I liked it - but not sure that I should ")

Acting = A. Could be that I love Harris and Hopkins.

Story = too confusing at times and too many WTFs for me. Are the robots using real bullets??? Cause they sure are blowing things up. Why does a real bullet not work on a human when shot by a robot (see the first Ed Harris scene).

The Robots taking on human traits thing has been done to death. It is a bit tedious. I would probably like it more if the story line focused more on human beings - do they select depravity or heroics for their vacation? etc.

Good enough to continue watching

Good question on the bullets. My guess has been this: the robots simply can't aim directly at a human. So Ted fired real bullets at Ed Harris, but he always just missed because his program made him.

Now, there are problems with that. For one thing, we wouldn't want a them park where robots fired real bullets, even if they missed. Would not be safe with bullets flying all around.

Maybe there are actually no bullets. They use electronic guns that don't actually fire a projectile. The robots bodies sense the hits and bleed?

So yeah, I am curious.

Also, how is Ed Harris free to run around the theme park decapitating robots? No one is tracking him?

If these questions don't have convincing answers, I will be annoyed for sure.

Quoted from leitskev Also, how is Ed Harris free to run around the theme park decapitating robots?

He paid for the roam-free-and-decapitated package. It's a bit on the steep side. But he's been coming there for 30 years. He gets a discount.

I thought he wasn't a robot, didn't he say that the bullets don't hurt him because he was playing the game or something? Gosh, now I'm confused. He definitely comes across like robot with some kind of revenge or vendetta vibes, and I also wondered if papa-robot's speech toward the end has anything to do with The Man in Black.

The scalp puzzle was very interesting, because it implies someone on the outside could possibly be helping him in some way. And how in the heck to they get shrunk into that sandbox? Willy Wonka television shrink microwave?

Quoted from Demento He paid for the roam-free-and-decapitated package. It's a bit on the steep side. But he's been coming there for 30 years. He gets a discount.

Priceless

Quoted from oJOHNNYoNUTSo I thought he wasn't a robot, didn't he say that the bullets don't hurt him because he was playing the game or something? Gosh, now I'm confused. He definitely comes across like robot with some kind of revenge or vendetta vibes, and I also wondered if papa-robot's speech toward the end has anything to do with The Man in Black. The scalp puzzle was very interesting, because it implies someone on the outside could possibly be helping him in some way. And how in the heck to they get shrunk into that sandbox? Willy Wonka television shrink microwave?

My impression that he was a guest (human) now bored with the West and more interested in investigating the makings of the park

Quoted from eldave1 My impression that he was a guest (human) now bored with the West and more interested in investigating the makings of the park

That's exactly what I was in tune with too, but dude's got that robot-turned-bad thing going on. It's hard to pin down, robot rapes another robot? Maybe he's a robot that's seen the worst in humans and mimics the horrible and good things he's seen. Either way, I get the feeling he isn't human.

Or...

What if The Man in Black was one of the Papa-Robot's prior??! That would be really f'ed up, but I totally bet that could happen seeing there was a replacement robot in the end. What if he has become aware of the Groundhog Day thing?

Quoted from oJOHNNYoNUTSo That's exactly what I was in tune with too, but dude's got that robot-turned-bad thing going on. It's hard to pin down, robot rapes another robot? Maybe he's a robot that's seen the worst in humans and mimics the horrible and good things he's seen. Either way, I get the feeling he isn't human. Or... What if The Man in Black was one of the Papa-Robot's prior??! That would be really f'ed up, but I totally bet that could happen seeing there was a replacement robot in the end. What if he has become aware of the Groundhog Day thing?

I think he has to be human because - right from the get go - he was someone who could not be killed by a robot. We'll see.

You're groundhog day theory may be spot on - hmmmm

Second episode is on early if you have HBO On Demand.

Gonna watch it here shortly...

Quoted from oJOHNNYoNUTSo Second episode is on early if you have HBO On Demand. Gonna watch it here shortly...

No shit. Thanks, buddy. Will follow suit.

***EPISODE TWO SPOILERS***

A lot going on.

If the first episode was about introducing the world and its characters, the next one focuses on what makes it all tick. This show isn't going to give easy answers, but now I have new theories.

So the Man in Black has been identified as a human, yet I'm still not ruling out if he's a robot. But after this episode, I'm leaning human - only because of what Dolores finds in the ground. Pretty intense scenes with this dude again. I like it and that's all I'll say.

Poor Teddy can't catch a break, while Maeve caught a big one.

Jimmi Simpson's character was a welcome addition, and in the closing moments we got a tie in with some killer words of wisdom from our boy Anthony Hopkins. He had MVP dialogue, I loved the way he described what the experience of Westworld means to its participants. Totally below the surface stuff.

If someone has any theories about what the hell they think is going on I'd like to hear them. I'm officially lost.

Quoted from oJOHNNYoNUTSo ***EPISODE TWO SPOILERS*** A lot going on. If the first episode was about introducing the world and its characters, the next one focuses on what makes it all tick. This show isn't going to give easy answers, but now I have new theories. So the Man in Black has been identified as a human, yet I'm still not ruling out if he's a robot. But after this episode, I'm leaning human - only because of what Dolores finds in the ground. Pretty intense scenes with this dude again. I like it and that's all I'll say. Poor Teddy can't catch a break, while Maeve caught a big one. Jimmi Simpson's character was a welcome addition, and in the closing moments we got a tie in with some killer words of wisdom from our boy Anthony Hopkins. He had MVP dialogue, I loved the way he described what the experience of Westworld means to its participants. Totally below the surface stuff. If someone has any theories about what the hell they think is going on I'd like to hear them. I'm officially lost.

My guess - there going to discover that the "virus" that is infecting the robots is violence or trauma.

Quoted from eldave1 My guess - there going to discover that the "virus" that is infecting the robots is violence or trauma.

***Again SPOILERS***

Yeah, that was evidence of that in both episodes. Two robots having flashbacks or flashforwards. Did you notice that the indian in Maeve's flashback wasn't even commissioned yet? Weird.

Also, The Man in Black has experienced the scenerios already, which should be a no brainer by now, but it makes me wonder how many attempts he's made to get this far? And it's also implied he's some kind of VIP player. Two episodes in and there's too much to digest.

Quoted from oJOHNNYoNUTSo ***Again SPOILERS*** Yeah, that was evidence of that in both episodes. Two robots having flashbacks or flashforwards. Did you notice that the indian in Maeve's flashback wasn't even commissioned yet? Weird. Also, The Man in Black has experienced the scenerios already, which should be a no brainer by now, but it makes me wonder how many attempts he's made to get this far? And it's also implied he's some kind of VIP player. Two episodes in and there's too much to digest.

Yes - much too digest, indeed. I actually think that some of the second episode should have be incorporated in the first - it would have made it clearer. I will continue wathcing for sure

I love this show. Part of the reason is that it intersects with a couple of novels I am working on. But I just love watching these robots struggling to self awareness, to understanding what is real.

But that said, the storytelling is done in a way that I fear will not draw huge ratings.

As to what is going on, yeah, fun to speculate.

Who will be the "Judas steer" hinted at in the first episode? Seems like Delores. She is spreading the virus through Shakespeare's words and the virus is waking them up. To what purpose? Who is whispering to Delores where to find the gun?

HBO hopes for this to last multiple seasons. There is no way remaining inside the Westworld theme park can sustain that. It will get boring pretty quick. Because there are no life and death stakes. Humans can't be killed, and robots can't really be either. That could change with Delores gun, but still, it's limited.

We all know there will be a robot uprising. But since its the robots that have our sympathy, how will the story make us fear anything?

So I kind of see this like Planet of the Apes, with the robots leaving the reservation. I think someone on the outside intends for that to happen. But it will not go the way they planned, as the robots will prove uncontrollable even by the virus.

Still hard to understand the bullets. When Ed Harris is shot, dust poofs around his shirt. How could they make that trick? Are the guns firing little pellets maybe?

Anyway, great show so far, and we're really lucky there is a network like HBO that can take chances to make something like this.

Quoted Text Anyway, great show so far, and we're really lucky there is a network like HBO that can take chances to make something like this.

Very true

Thanks to a free weekend of HBO and Cinemax, I was able to watch the 2nd episode last night.

Like the 1st episode, i definitely like what I'm seeing, but again, I feel like it's a bit too big in concept already, with far too few answers to what's really going on.  Maybe this is the game plan and maybe viewers enjoy this, but for me, I like things a bit easier to digest.

Pretty shocking to see Thandie Newton running around butass naked, but I'm sure not complaining, either.  I love the way HBO pulls no punches and for this alone, i will sign up for HBO, so I can keep watching.

Anyone know how many episodes Season 1 will contain?

No idea how many episodes, but I have read that they hope this will be the next Game of Thrones. That's why they put 100 million into it.

I have a hard time seeing how it will have that kind of success(even though I love it so far), but they certainly are planning for a large number of episodes.

Another cool thing in episode 2: (((Spoilers)))

The scene where the kid stumbles across Anthony Hopkins. And what happens is really cool. The kid is bright and curious. Hopkins helps him see a town in the desert that we can't see. Then Hopkins stops a snake in mid strike. Garden of Eden anyone? He then says the magic words to the kid, and we learn the kid is a robot.

So we have the innocent created being entertained by his creator.

It is kind of a big idea as with many big ideas, the pay off might not live up to the build up.

But they have me for now!

Ten episodes. Wikipedia. Come on, guys...

Also, isn't it ultimately a good thing that everyone's asking questions at this point? Of course, those questions need answers and those answers might be disappointing/problematic/nonexistent, but it's only the second episode. Personally, I'm not even pressed about the show being that good; I only need something to keep me more or less entertained while I wait for better shows (GOT, Fargo), some of which might not meet my expectations themselves.

As for the episode itself... not bad. Some noticeably corny/lame shit creeping in where the characters are concerned, but still on board.

That's what I meant by good set up...intriguing questions.

I don't know, I don't know, I don't know...

I just don't know how I feel after Ep.1

I'll try another, I guess.

Very cool show. this is right up my alley. they give you bits and pieces and let you put it together as they slowly reveal what's really going on. definitely a show worth repeat viewings of the episodes to pick up the details.

speculation and theorizing is part of the fun. probably why i loved LOST so much.

Still loving this show through 3 episodes. Though I fear the storytelling used will not hold a wide audience for long, which will lead to this show being considered a bust.

I love the idea of characters like Delores struggling to come to grips with what she is, and determined to escape her fate.

The story stimulates so many great questions. For example, when we see some of the human characters allowing and encouraging the increasing consciousness of the robots, sometimes motivated by their own personal loneliness, it brings to mind powerful ideas about the purpose of creation.

I hope audiences continue to be patient with this developing series.

Episode 3 was not a strong one, IMO.  In fact, it took me 2 viewings to get through it, as I was quite bored.

I'm not giving up and actually got HBO and Cinemax for 3 months so I can keep watching.

I hear you. As I watched I almost winced, realizing that instead of building the kind of story momentum needed to hold an audience, it seemed to be plodding along. Part of the reason I like the show is because I'm interested in those topics already...what it means to be conscious and stuff related to that. So I do worry this show is going to fizzle out if it doesn't pick up soon.

I'm still in, although not hooked. At this point, it seems the driving forces of the show are/will be the philosophical themes and the minutia of the park/corporation. The plot seems to have an obvious endgame (the robots learn what they are and fight back), so I don't think they can maintain tension based on that alone.

What concerns me most at this point is the characters. Personally, with the exception of the Gunslinger/Man in Black (Dark Tower anyone?), I'm not sure they're compelling enough to carry the show. Dolores works because of ERW's performance and her transitioin from an idyllic, optimistic worldview to seeing what's behind the curtain could be an interesting one, but the internal struggle of a robot questioning their reality could've been applied to any of the other characters, since the fact that it is a robot experiencing these things is front and center.

Beyond that, the characters are more or less archetypes and their experiences are in service of the themes. It makes sense that this would be the case for the robots, since their simple narratives and characteristics would be in service of the guests at the park, but that doesn't change the fact that they're totally familiar to us, what with so many Westerns out there. Beyond that, the death of Jeffrey Wright's child as a motivator for his character feels very lowest-common-denominator for me. I understand it's extremely relatable, but unless they bring some fresh nuance to the table, it's not enough for me personally. The corporate "antagonists" are typically soulless and profit-driven, not to mention Wright sleeping with the boss is trite AF. Ford, while well-written, seems like the kind of character Hopkins always plays, and as a Chrichton archetype in and of himself, he lacks the exuberance that made the similar character of John Hammond so intriguing.

Maybe I'm just trying to shoot holes in the show too early on. That's entirely possible, as nothing is really all that problematic for me (yet) per se. It could easily be that I'm affected by the pace as much as everyone else and am waiting for things to pick up (not sure). But for whatever reason, I have felt a slight waning of my enthusiasm from episode to episode. Honestly more invested in Atlanta at this point.

Quoted from Dreamscale Episode 3 was not a strong one, IMO.  In fact, it took me 2 viewings to get through it, as I was quite bored. I'm not giving up and actually got HBO and Cinemax for 3 months so I can keep watching.

Concur - thought it faded a bit - but I will be a watcher till the end.

I turned it off halfway through ep.3. I just don't see a character I like.

I'm really worried about this show now, after 4 episodes. Because if it fails they won't make anymore shows like it.

I sense in the show's story crafting the annoying hand of JJ Abrams. He built Lost on the power of the mystery box, but he also violates the trust of the viewer that the mystery box will actually lead to something, He establishes these mysteries and often they lead nowhere. That's screwing with the audience.

Westworld is not building storylines we care about, or characters we worry about. Delores is an effective character, but because she has no real dream except a vague notion of escape, and no bonds except the slightly growing one with a guest, it's hard to create stakes around her.

The storylines are all wondering. There are no real tangible goals, and it feels like too many mysteries have been thrown in like scraps to a dog.

I'm going to watch it all, but I suspect they will not get a season 2, which means much of this will be wasted watching.

I've only watched the first 2 eps and they were great. Not liking all this negative talk. Hopefully it picks up.

I like the show, Stuart, because I am already very interested in the topic of what it means to be conscious, and all related questions, such as the nature of reality. So I'm all in. But I see some very unfocused storytelling through 4 episodes. There's no sense of building toward anything. Not enough to hold the attention of a wide audience anyway. I hope I'm wrong.

I still haven't watched the 4th episode...cuz...well...I don't know, but I don't feel very drawn to it, for some reason.

Or maybe it's because I'm now on Season 3 of Game of thrones and that is a show I look forward to every night, and lucky for me, I have some 38 more episodes to get caught up!  

Season 6(whatever the most recent season was) is epic. Half hour long battle scenes. Like nothing I've ever seen on tv.

Quoted from leitskev Season 6(whatever the most recent season was) is epic. Half hour long battle scenes. Like nothing I've ever seen on tv.

Well, that would be a reason big enough for me NOT to watch. Same thing when I watch Vikings. Hubby likes more battles, I want more of the drama.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Well, that would be a reason big enough for me NOT to watch. Same thing when I watch Vikings. Hubby likes more battles, I want more of the drama.

Plenty of drama in GOT to go around.

GOT as more than enough of absolutly everything, that's why it is the greatest show of all time. Will take a lot for something to be an all round better show.

Just wish George would hurry up and finish a damn book, I mean come on! Lol

The drama is constant, even in the battle scenes,

I just don't like battles or lengthy action scenes. I find them dull as hell to watch and write.

C'mon, peeps!  You want to discuss GOT, go to its thread!

I watched episode 4 last night and was far from impressed.  In fact, it was easily the worst episode so far, IMO.  Very dull, very repetitive, not very fun.

Not sure if I said this after watching episode 1 or, if I articulated it correctly, but IMO, the problem here is the POV of the show - the "Hosts".  This is a mistake and there's simply no way around it.

The obvious choice would be to show different guests come in each week and develop characters (even Hosts) through this.  I'm sure those in charge said this was too simple.

Then, we have the possibility of seeing things unfold through the eyes of the peeps behind the curtain, which is being done, but not well, IMO.

I'll keep watching, but I've lost alot of interest already, and that's not going to bode well for this show's future.

I'm binging TWD yes season one. So after that I will watch GOT. I did watch the pilot... I'm WAY behind.

Westworld could rate as one of the biggest flops ever. You talk about a hidden gem (the original terminator character-like, ffs!) from decades ago turned into a repetitive bundle of mush. Hours worth of character development has turned out barely anything.

Big names are connected to this, too!

I hope the production pockets are deep and the wind turns these sails in a new direction, and quickly! Especially if they think this will fill GOT's shoes.

I really want to watch more, but... I dunno.

It could just be me - but I do like something that brings a little more clarity with each episode. This is going reverse. I am more confused after 4 episodes than I was after the first. LOve the production value so will keep watching. But come on - things have to start to gel a little bit.

oh - and more Anthony Hopkins please

Quoted Text It could just be me - but I do like something that brings a little more clarity with each episode. This is going reverse. I am more confused after 4 episodes than I was after the first. LOve the production value so will keep watching. But come on - things have to start to gel a little bit.

This feels like the JJ Abrams problem. I watched a little bit of Lost on Netflix, and I realized early on the show was scamming its audience. Not that there weren't quality aspects to it, but the audience gives you its trust that when you set up a mystery you have some kind of satisfactory reveal in mind. Not a smoke monster crashing through the jungle that is never revealed for what it is.

I feel like they're building too may mystery boxes in Westworld.

And while I am blaming Abrams, I also think I understand the problem. I've done similar things myself, or almost anyway. When you feel the stakes in your story are not compelling enough, you lean on mystery. And in Westworld the stakes border on non-existent. Yeah, we want Delores to escape and find freedom...but what does that even mean for a robot? It's hard to even name any other stakes because they are so vague.

So they keep setting up these mysteries...Arnold, the Hopkins character, the maze, what the corporation wants.

I mean a maze? Is that really needed here?

I will remain all in, I think. It's not like this is season 2 of True Detective.

All to often peeps think they need to come up with something that is so unique, so different, so compelling that they end up fucking everything up.

I actually really like the old K.I.S.S. routine - Keep It Simple, Stupid!

Seriously...I think the way to go here should have been, first of all, an update on the classic 1973 film, which, believe it or not, I saw in the theater, at the ripe old age of 10.  The effects alone would make this work and from there, we can move into a problem with the robots and their creators.

The problem we have now is that we don't care about any of the guests or magic that's taking place in Delos' beautiful park.  The Jimmy Simpson character is pretty much the only guest we could really care about, but then again, we do have the mystery of Ed Harris' character, but that, for me, is heading down the wrong path.

Things can sound like a good idea at first, but then the problems emerge. For example, centering this on the POV of the robots is a great idea...but it's very hard to build stakes around robots. So I agree with Jeff...now hell can freeze over.

I do still like the robot POV stuff, but they need to create guests that we care about.

The problem all these shows is they are all versions of Jurrasic Park. How do you make a damn series about that? I mean there's only so much you can do with guests and the park.

And there are generally no stakes for robots because they get repaired and rebooted and used again the next day.

Quoted from Dreamscale I actually really like the old K.I.S.S. routine - Keep It Simple, Stupid!

I was told it was Keep It Simple, Shithead! Or was that person talking directly to me? I dunno

Quoted from leitskev Things can sound like a good idea at first, but then the problems emerge. For example, centering this on the POV of the robots is a great idea...but it's very hard to build stakes around robots. So I agree with Jeff...now hell can freeze over. I do still like the robot POV stuff, but they need to create guests that we care about. The problem all these shows is they are all versions of Jurrasic Park. How do you make a damn series about that? I mean there's only so much you can do with guests and the park. And there are generally no stakes for robots because they get repaired and rebooted and used again the next day.

It's nice to see we can agree on something, Kevin.  

And I do not intend this post to cause an argument, but I do have a serious point about what you said...and have been saying.

You say it's a god idea to center the concept on the robot's POV, but now finally agree it doesn't work.

Ideas that don't or can't work, are not good ideas, IMO.

They went for something that has no way of working, as far as I can see.

But, I did do a little checking and it looks like this is a certified hit and will be back fro Season 2.

Well, sometimes an idea has strong personal appeal for me, but I recognize the problems associated with. That's the case here. I am fascinated by the topic of consciousness, so I like it.

But I also see no reason why both couldn't be done in something as broad as a series. They should be able to show us POV of the robots in a sympathetic way, and at the same time give us humans to care about.

Good to know it will be back!

So the visitors can kill the hosts and not risk being killed themselves. Got it. Like in week 1.  Don't need to see a different version of that same scene every week to know that it's likely going to change at some point.

As for the same scene over and over again finally changing....Go Cubs!!

Quoted from leitskev This feels like the JJ Abrams problem. I watched a little bit of Lost on Netflix, and I realized early on the show was scamming its audience. Not that there weren't quality aspects to it, but the audience gives you its trust that when you set up a mystery you have some kind of satisfactory reveal in mind. Not a smoke monster crashing through the jungle that is never revealed for what it is. I feel like they're building too may mystery boxes in Westworld. And while I am blaming Abrams, I also think I understand the problem. I've done similar things myself, or almost anyway. When you feel the stakes in your story are not compelling enough, you lean on mystery. And in Westworld the stakes border on non-existent. Yeah, we want Delores to escape and find freedom...but what does that even mean for a robot? It's hard to even name any other stakes because they are so vague. So they keep setting up these mysteries...Arnold, the Hopkins character, the maze, what the corporation wants. I mean a maze? Is that really needed here? I will remain all in, I think. It's not like this is season 2 of True Detective.

That pretty much sums up my feelings exactly

Quoted from leitskev This feels like the JJ Abrams problem. I watched a little bit of Lost on Netflix, and I realized early on the show was scamming its audience.

You're sharper than me - I hung in there - even with five minutes left in the series finale I thought there was a chance Lost could pull the trigger that would blow my mind forever. Fringe kinda went down the same way, still had hope and got scammed, although I must say both shows as a whole had some killer episodes.

Lost did end up suffocating under an avalanche of unexplained mysteries but at least it had characters. Just from the pilot you get Jack is this brave, intelligent leader. Sure, there's a lot more to his character, his past, all that good stuff that gets filled in over time. But you know the basics of who Jack is in one episode.

In four episodes of Westworld I don't know a single character. It's like the writers are actively avoiding any information that might illuminate basic personality traits.

I followed Jack, Sawyer, Kate, etc. through about four seasons of Lost "mysteries" that were probably made up on the spot because I cared about the characters.

If Westworld would just give me one fully realized individual... but at this point I've pretty much given up hope.

In all fairness, I only watched 2 episodes of Lost, and this was on rerun long after the series was over. I didn't know anything about the series. But I had this feeling with the smoke monster of being played. I was a bartender many years, I have a good sense about being played. So I asked someone who had watched the whole series if they ever really show the smoke monster or explain it, and she said no. So I stopped watching. I really hate being played. I don't mind a loose end in a series, but I don't like when the show builds its entire existence on mysteries and the show's creators feel no obligation to the audience to explain them. There's a trust that's violated.

What happened to the WestWorld watchers?

I watched the 10/29 show last night and am only down one now.

I still have the same issues, but things may be turning a bit with "Contrapasso", which showed signs of life and intrigue.

The show continues to surprise me with full frontal male and female nudity, orgy scenes, and Thandie Newton being butt ass nekid on screen for long periods of time.

I'm hoping things are picking up now, and will probably watch Episode 6 tonight.

I'm still watching, still enjoying it. But I'm still fearing the storytelling used will not capture and hold audiences. They're opening way too many "mystery boxes". It can reach a point where the audience feels exploited. And the character goals are so weak it's hard to even remember what they are. It's extremely unfocused.

I'm curious what you think about what happens in this week's episode, but I'll wait til you watch.

I'm loving it. Some friends I know where getting a bit bored of the show reliving the same day over and over but all changed their minds when they watched episode 6. Episode 7 is described as a game changer, we will see!

I also have my concerns about how far they can take this show. But one thing I am not is bored. That scene between Ed Harris and Anthony Hopkins was just lovely. It was like watching DeNiro and Pacino for the first time having coffee in Heat. Two A-class actors in a scene together with good dialogue is enough to keep me going. Great stuff. More please.

I watched episode 6 last night and was falling asleep, so maybe I missed something, but I did not like that episode and thought it was quite dull.

I do like Thandie Newton's character and where she's going, but they seemed to completely leave out several other story lines, which for me, was a mistake.

What did you think of how easy it was for her to convince the techs to up her character settings, starting with intelligence? It seemed to me that it was far too easy. If it was that easy, and there were no safeguards in place, it would have happened many years before.

I agree that leaving the other storyline hanging was a mistake. The Delores character and her human buddy there are already on a vague mission as is. Those are good characters, but they're drifting around more or less.

Still watching, but it occurred to me during the last episode, there's not a single character I'm rooting for. The robots are hardware and software, so why should I care about "them", and as for all the real life humans, I wouldn't sneeze if any were killed off.  I like the show, but I won't miss it if it's not back next year - not yet anyway.

Yup, meaningful stakes are the fundamental problem. And the robots don't even die, they are usually brought back the next day, so death is meaningless.

As the robots go rogue, the stakes should rise. Because their destruction will be in play.

Westworld is thought provoking, and I enjoy it for that reason, but it's void of tension.

Quoted from leitskev What did you think of how easy it was for her to convince the techs to up her character settings, starting with intelligence? It seemed to me that it was far too easy. If it was that easy, and there were no safeguards in place, it would have happened many years before.

Totally!  In fact, the scene there was quite odd and played way too long.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching Thandie sitting, standing, or running buttass naked, and her big puffy nipples are very impressive, but again, it just seemed to run too long and didn't make all that much sense.

Maybe they will dial up her nipple levels too.

Quoted from Dreamscale Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching Thandie sitting, standing, or running buttass naked, and her big puffy nipples are very impressive, but again, it just seemed to run too long and didn't make all that much sense.

The puffy part may get me watching this again.

Sigh.

The finally is upon us and sadly, If I had to grade at this point, I would say fail.

The production value continues to be an A+. But so are video games - that does not make them good drama.

Acting still continues to be solid.

Story - is now a totally at a WTF for me?

- You have a trillion dollar park with a thousand robots - many of which that have to be repaired daily - a huge technological infrastrcuture, thousands of staff AND - 3 or 4 human guests at the park. What - are they paying a trillion dollars each to be in the park?????  

- So many explanations missing. When raping and slaughtering - How do guests distinguish between robots and other guests?

- How do robots seamlessly go through past and present reality (see last episode with Dolores changing clothes and setting as she walks from scene to scene)??

- How does the robots can do no harm to humans square with them hitting their heads against rocks, punching them, nearly strangulating them, etc. etc. ???

- Why does a robot die when shot but not when their guts are ripped out (see last scene with Harris and Delores)??

etc. etc. etc.

So I am watching because of the artistry of the production. But that's not the test. If it was, Cirque du Soleil  would win best picture every year. From a story perspective this series sucks. It is mindless, devoid of logic and has so many WTF moments I can't imagine that the writers are not just saying - whatever - wing it - will band aid the logic later.

A shame - a mindless plot. It should have been about what happens to humans when they visit a world where all of their actions have no consequences. What happens to them when they return to their real world - are they able to temper their behavior? Does a good man become a bad one and vice versa. How about some female guests? The robot uprising should have been a slow boil, a back story, culminating in the final season. A long way of saying - if his series was a cowboy - it would be one with a lot of hat and no cattle.  

A giant spool of wool has been weaved together and pulled over Westworld's audiences' eyes.

What a disappointment.

SPOILERS.

Since this show is happening in the future, how come no one knows what Arnold looked like? There are no photos or documents of the co-inventor of this huge revolutionary park? No one did their research of the history of their place of business?

Or did I miss something?

Followed the series up until now. Will watch the finale. Not sure I'm on board for S2.

Solid talent but practically no compelling characters, save for Ford, I guess, who wasn't even all that compelling (to me) from the start. I like some of the turns Bernard has taken in the last few episodes, but I think I'm more compelled for the sake that it's Wright portraying that character. If it had been someone else, I might not have cared as much. Even my interest in the Man in Black has waned at this point. Some have suggested that character is ultimately a metaphor for fan culture. What a superficially clever but ultimately lame idea.

Beyond that, my main issues have been difficulty in keeping up with all the minute details (which ultimately become major details) and characters essentially being mouthpieces for the themes of the series. The latter has always been an issue for the Nolans as far as I'm concerned. When the characters aren't mouthpieces, they're either boring/cliche (e.g. the guests tagging along with Dolores, whose names I haven't even bothered to remember) or super dumbed down/also cliche (the lab dudes caught up in Maeve's machinations). Each episode, I've become more and more confused and tended to be doing something else entirely whilst watching the show.

In retrospect, I've considered the possibility of me having not given the show an honest try from the start (admittedly something I've attributed to other people with other shows in the past). At the end of the day, though, I realize this is only because it's been a while since I watched the premiere. I was more or less on board from the start and have in turn been worn down on an episode-to-episode basis. Hoping this all amounts to a slow first season, which even GOT was for me, and that there's some kind of show-stopper at the end of this thing. Otherwise this one might not be for me at all.

Quoted from James McClung Otherwise this one might not be for me at all.

Seems like you already made a decision.

"You have a trillion dollar park with a thousand robots - many of which that have to be repaired daily - a huge technological infrastrcuture, thousands of staff AND - 3 or 4 human guests at the park. What - are they paying a trillion dollars each to be in the park????? "

That one bugs me too. Whole towns seem to exist where there are no guests. This week, in one scene, the narrative was for the robot robbers to all shoot each other...and there were no guests. What would be the point?

"How do robots seamlessly go through past and present reality (see last episode with Dolores changing clothes and setting as she walks from scene to scene)??"

This one I can explain. They are not changing clothes, they are reliving memories.

I have to agree with your general conclusion, Dave. I enjoy the show, but the plotting is senseless.

Quoted from leitskev This week, in one scene, the narrative was for the robot robbers to all shoot each other...and there were no guests.

Yeah, that bugged me too. Who were they paying to?

Only guess would be that maybe some guest might stumble upon them by accident. But then again, aren't people monitoring the park at all times, can't they put these robots offline when there's no one near and online when a guest approaches.

Seems like a huge waste of resources for the robots to kill each other, act out scenes when there's no one around. Then they'll have to be repaired, pulled for the park, etc. Makes no sense.

The only way to enjoy the story is to try not to ask too many questions. Which is hard for me, because I'm always that annoying guy with the questions.

I like the story for two reasons:

One, I like the whole issue of exploring what it means to be conscious. For example, there was scene this week showing how in the early years they set the robots to run inner monologues in order to develop a type of consciousness. That was the scene where all the robots are mumbling in the church.

Another example is how Bernard is given the memory of his dying son as a cornerstone for his personality.

They really are doing a great job exploring what it means to be conscious.

The second reason to follow the story is Anthony Hopkins. Every scene he's in holds one's attention.

I like Ed Harris the actor, but that plot angle is going nowhere fast.

Quoted from Demento SPOILERS. Since this show is happening in the future, how come no one knows what Arnold looked like? There are no photos or documents of the co-inventor of this huge revolutionary park? No one did their research of the history of their place of business? Or did I miss something?

Good point

Quoted from leitskev "You have a trillion dollar park with a thousand robots - many of which that have to be repaired daily - a huge technological infrastrcuture, thousands of staff AND - 3 or 4 human guests at the park. What - are they paying a trillion dollars each to be in the park????? " That one bugs me too. Whole towns seem to exist where there are no guests. This week, in one scene, the narrative was for the robot robbers to all shoot each other...and there were no guests. What would be the point? "How do robots seamlessly go through past and present reality (see last episode with Dolores changing clothes and setting as she walks from scene to scene)??" This one I can explain. They are not changing clothes, they are reliving memories. I have to agree with your general conclusion, Dave. I enjoy the show, but the plotting is senseless.

Yeah - it's  shame given how visually striking it is

I'm up to speed except for last Sunday's episode.

I'm still watching, but I find myself not that interested in watching..or even wanting to watch.

Things are completely senseless for the most part, and that's really too bad, because it's just an obvious fault on the writers to make everything more than it needs to be.  I've said this several times - WestWorld, as a concept, and as the original movie, was a pure genius, because it was kept very simple, easy to follow, easy to understand.  The series isn't any of these things, and that's where it's a big fat fail.

IMO, they should have had new human characters coming and going on almost a weekly basis - think of it as "The Love Boat" or "Fantasy Island", where stories are completed relatively quickly, yet we learn more about the core characters, both human and robot, through interactions with "guest stars".

If it weren't for Thandie Newton's giant puffy nipples, I may have been out weeks ago.

Quoted Text IMO, they should have had new human characters coming and going on almost a weekly basis - think of it as "The Love Boat" or "Fantasy Island", where stories are completed relatively quickly, yet we learn more about the core characters, both human and robot, through interactions with "guest stars".

Exactly as I thought and I would add - show us some scenes where they have to adapt to the real world - I wold haved loved to see the Ed Harris character back in his old Board room listening to some ad exec as he yearned to just blow his brains out with a six shooter.

Quoted from eldave1 Exactly as I thought and I would add - show us some scenes where they have to adapt to the real world - I would have loved to see the Ed Harris character back in his old Board room listening to some ad exec as he yearned to just blow his brains out with a six shooter.

Exactly!

And this brings up another big problem with the concept - time.

How long has Ed Harris's character been in WestWorld?  How long have Jimmi Simpson and his buddy been there?  I mean, c'mon...really?

I think we have to believe that time is passing, as alot has happened with both the robots and the programmers, and my bet is that several weeks have passed at least.