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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  Sequels and how to write them Moderators: George Willson
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George Willson
Posted: July 13th, 2005, 2:02am Report to Moderator
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Sequels are a favorite topic of mine. I didn't even watch Pitch Black until 2 other Chronicles of Riddick came out and then I'm all over it. I love sequels. But what makes a sequel good? That is a question I have asked myself. In doing so, I have come up with three main categories that most sequels fall under:

1. Progressive - the most common variety, these sequels usually have a number after the title and often use something that occurred in the last movie. Most of the time, the original characters make a reappearance either by intent or by force, and most of the time, we wonder where these come from since the last movie tied up its loose ends. Often, the original writer never intended the sequel to be written. These are intended to be watched in a specific order, although occasionally you don't have to. Character growth starts over with each part. Some examples are: almost every horror movie with a sequel (Jaws, Halloween, Nightmare, Final Destination, Psycho), most Disney sequels that go straight to video, Terminator, Alien, Riddick, and the list goes on and on because most sequels fall under here.

2. Continuous - The next most common tells a continuous and unfolding storyline. These are usually planned, but not always. The subsequent parts of a continuous set usually will not make sense without viewing the previous films and must often be watched in order to make sense. Character growth progresses from film to film. Again, these usualy have a numeral in the title, but not always. Some examples are The Lord of the Rings, Star Wars (the individual trilogies), and Back to the Future (an unintended continuation from 1 to 2).

3. Serial - The rarest of the sequels, these involve usually one main character on adventures. Typically reserved for super hero type movies, the main character usually experiences no growth during the course of the film, although some movie makers try to squeeze growth out of him. The main character is often accompanied by a group of "regulars" who seem to go from film to film also experiencing little to no growth. Growth is usually experienced to a small degree by a secondary character who assists the main character in the adventure. These can often be viewed in any order without loss to the plot or characters like a TV show on reruns. Examples include James Bond, Indiana Jones, Superman, and Batman (though filmmakers did try squeezing some growth out of the latter two).

The Matrix is a weird one because Martix to Reloaded is progressive, but Reloaded to Revolutions is continuous. Nothing is set in stone.

If I were to pick one filmmaker who has mastered the art of the sequel, it would be James Cameron. Aliens was at least as good, if not better than Alien. Terminator and Terminator 2 were both on an AFI Top 100 movies list, Terminator 2 being the ONLY sequel on the list. Cameron is a generally good filmmaker, but the one to stuy for sequels.

How can one make a good sequel? The best way is to plan for it while writing the original script. If you think it can get a sequel, write in something that allows for it. Some subtle loose end that can be used to continue the story. Even if you don't want a direct continuation, it makes a progressive sequel easier.

For the Progressive style, you should give the main character some kind of growth he can experience. The characters should be given a new situation to deal with. Never, ever, ever "rehash" the first film. If you find your character saying "I can't believe this is happening again," scrap it. Even if it is happening again, it should be different enough so that we recognize the material, but have no idea what is going to happen.

Movies are about people. Don't place new characters in old, identical situations. It's the downfall of many, many horror sequels. We came to watch the movie because we loved the original characters. Involve them somehow, even if it is as a mentor. But again, don't make the "rehash" mistake of "I remember when this same thing happened to me..." Bad! Kill it!

Finally, for my part, remember your title. It's the part we use to identify the movie with. If your title is no good for more than one movie, don't use it. Don't put a 2 behind it, if we're watching something totally different. The original sequel to Father of the Bride was Daddy's Little Dividend. It fits a little better than Father of the Bride Part 2, doesn't it, since his daughter was no longer "the Bride"?

It's late. I'm tired, but I was inspired. Enjoy the thread and tell us what you think makes a good sequel.



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George Willson  -  July 13th, 2005, 2:04am
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marshallamps12
Posted: July 14th, 2005, 8:34pm Report to Moderator
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      Not a bad thread, not bad at all. There's much you can add or I guess I can comment on some stuff too. Very important point that you mentioned is to not rehash the original. Take Rush Hour 2, for example. A lot of the jokes are just reversed from the first movie. This is really weak writing and basically what things like this does in a movie, is limit the sequel from ever surpassing the original.
      What I mean is that a sequel should be similar yet different from the original at the same time. Some Hollywood shmucks just do the same movie over and this is why most sequels suck. Take for example, the extra features DVD on the Star Wars DVD pack thingy. There's a really great documentary on the original trilogy and in it, Lucas talks about his ambitions for Episode V. He said that he wanted to make it bigger and better. I think he achieved this in every way. I love the original Star Wars film, but I love The Empire Strikes Back just a little bit more. The space battle at the end of the original is very exciting, but the opening battle on Hoth rivals it in every way without ever trying to be like the original's battle sequence. In fact, it's almost the complete opposite. It's in the beginning of the movie, it's on a snow planet, and it's soldiers against gigantic walker things against flying spaceships. Very awesome! Now, look at the rest of the movie. The dialogue is much sharper than the original. The movie is funnier than the original, more romantic, yet also much edgier and darker. The characters are even more developed, the emotions are just much bigger. The lightsaber fight is more exciting, and it leads to one of the greatest movie twists of all time. Then, look at the ending, it's so unhappy compared to the original. Genius. The original is an epic, yet the sequel is too. It has enough familiar feelings and connections with the original to keep the viewer feeling that it is a continuation of the story of the original, yet it is its own little movie at the same time, with plenty of new characters (The Emperor, Yoda, Lando) that are just as memorable as characters from the original. Lucas tried to outdo himself with ESB and many would argue that he really made an even better movie. Instead of being a sequel that just relies on the greatness of the original, it makes a name for itself, it adds to the story of the original. This is the same case with The Godfather Part II, Aliens and Terminator 2. I'm not saying any one of those movies are better than the originals (although many would argue that they are), but I'm saying that they are sequels that are done right.
       I feel that the Wachowski brothers tried to do this with The Matrix Reloaded. I don't think they really achieved this very much at all mainly because the dialogue is not even close to what it was in the original. Also, the overuse of special effects and mediocre acting really dragged it down. I don't hate that movie, but it just seems that all of the mystery of the original just kind of disapeared with the sequel. The only scene, in my opinion, that gave me that feeling of mystery and really made me interested was when Neo meets the architect character who created the Matrix. I thought the scene was brilliant and the movie I thought had a lot of potential, it just doesn't work that well. Mainly, many scenes out of the Matrix felt too tangential and it just felt like a completely different movie. I felt Revolutions suffered even more of this problem. Sequels should have limits to how far away from the original they can drift. Revolutions had about a 40 minutes cgi-robot battle scene and I found myself thinking: "this is not the Matrix series it started as." I'm sorry if I sound like I'm complaining, it's just, imo, those 2 movies had so much potential and it just didn't reach. Just like Return of the Jedi doesn't reach the level that Episodes IV and V do. It was too similar to the original at times, yet there was scenes of brilliance in there too (the lightsaber battle with the Emperor looking on).
        I also feel that there has never been a perfect trilogy. I won't elaborate into this too much, but I find it weird that some movie series just kind of lower the level with one of the movies. The second Indiana Jones is a bit weaker than the original, and even the third one, which was a bit too much like the original, was better than the second one, and a lot of times when people have the box set, they don't watch the Temple of Doom. The same flaw goes to the Godfather, Part III. I do feel that it is a very criminally underrated movie, but it's really not that good. I know that Copolla only made the movie to get out of debt, and I'm sure if he actually took more time on the script, that it could have turned into something really good. The movie seems to have many good scenes, but also many weak scenes too. This is signs of a screenplay in a draft that's well beyond the first draft, but not quite the final draft. Obviously, the movie was rushed (and Sofia's acting didn't help either) and I really wish Copolla made the movie just because of his passion for it instead of him being in debt. Many argue that there was no need for a third one, but I actually think there was. I always felt that the odd thing about the Godfather, Part II was that it ends on a down note (just like Episode V: ESB), but there was no third one to finish the story. I felt the character trying to do good in Part III was a great idea and a great way to complete the character's story. I just wish Part III was made in the 70s with Copolla and Puzo working as a team again. I feel they really could have made something great then and it would have closed it off as a trilogy instead of leaving it as a 2 parter for 15 or 16 years before starting again.
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George Willson
Posted: July 15th, 2005, 4:49pm Report to Moderator
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So, a bad thing we have here is trying to repeat the mystery or draw of the first movie. James Cameron did a great thing by making Aliens a sci-fi action story. We already knew what the alien looked like and what it could do. Trying to make another team figure it out from scratch would have been boring to watch. Cameron took it to the next level by making hundreds of the little bastards running around everywhere, making the threat even bigger than the original.

The best way to make a sequel at least as good as the original is solid planning.

ESB had a good story from the outset, and it was sharper (sorry, Lucas) because someone else wrote it. Lawrence Kasdan (who also wrote ROTJ and Raiders of the Lost Ark) penned the sharper sequels confined within Lucas's story.

As for a solid trilogy, I believe there is one. The Lord of the Rings was an awesome trilogy. Some may argue that it wasn't a trilogy, but just one story told in three movies...and what is wrong with that? The largest strength of the Lord of the Rings movies is that the screenplays for all three were written in their entirety BEFORE filming began. That means changes could be made among all three movies before one of them was put on screen.

In my own script series of the Fempiror Chronicles, I have gone back to the first screenplay and made multiple changes to it to fit what I had done later. I changed names, occupations, dialogue, even a character's sex months after I'd initially finished it. It created continuity that could not have existed before, and a better overall story that could not have been done had the first one been filmed, released, and then work on a sequel began later.


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marshallamps12
Posted: July 15th, 2005, 5:49pm Report to Moderator
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"ESB had a good story from the outset, and it was sharper (sorry, Lucas) because someone else wrote it. Lawrence Kasdan (who also wrote ROTJ and Raiders of the Lost Ark) penned the sharper sequels confined within Lucas's story."

heh, you know, Lucas can write a good story, but damn, his dialogue is weak.

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George Willson
Posted: July 15th, 2005, 6:19pm Report to Moderator
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Lucas also came up with the story for Indiana Jones and The Raiders of the Lost Ark. He is credited as such. We are all grateful his buddy Larry Kasdan was there to write the script or we'd all be shaking our heads at the shoddy dialogue of Indiana Jones.

"You know, Marian, that I was a friend of your father's so I believe that entitles me to to having that amulet from you. Give me the amulet."

"Indy, that was so long ago. Hoever could we rekindle our relationship if you're so forceful?"

"Marian, please listen to me. Don't you understand? I can't believe this is happening again. I need the amulet to stop the Nazis so I can single-handedly save the world. How can you deny me that?"

"I don't know. My feelings are conflicted and your dialogue is terrible."


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marshallamps12
Posted: July 15th, 2005, 7:24pm Report to Moderator
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lol, you hit the mark exactly.
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dogglebe
Posted: July 18th, 2005, 3:42pm Report to Moderator
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Wanna hear something real scary?

Deuce Bigalow:  European Gigolo


Phil
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George Willson
Posted: July 18th, 2005, 3:49pm Report to Moderator
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And all the people of the church cast their eyes unto heaven and uttered, "Why, O Lord, why?"


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dogglebe
Posted: July 18th, 2005, 3:59pm Report to Moderator
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The first one was really bad.  Don't tell me that it made enough money to warrant a sequel.

I mean, they're only encouraging Roy Schneider to act like an idiot.


Phil
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Huggybear
Posted: July 18th, 2005, 4:18pm Report to Moderator
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Sorry about doing this Phil, but... His name is Rob Sneider not Roy... You guys are absolutely right. How'd they get enough money to make a second movie about the a gigalo.

Yeah, a movie you might want to see instead is Four Brothers. Looks very kickass if you like action flicks.
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Andy Petrou
Posted: July 18th, 2005, 4:31pm Report to Moderator
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Hmmm, I actually quite liked the first one and have it on DVD... I like his acting that way, it suits him to act foolishly. Like the guy from Encino Man too (not Brendan Fraser), I like him also.

I guess you either love 'em or hate 'em!
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dogglebe
Posted: July 18th, 2005, 6:00pm Report to Moderator
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Roy Schneider was the guy from Jaws (Scheider, actually).  My bad.


Phil
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dogglebe
Posted: July 18th, 2005, 6:02pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Andy Petrou


I guess you either love 'em or hate 'em!


I wouldn't say I hate him.  I thought he was great on Saturday Night Live, Judge Fredd, The Demolition Man and Fifty First Dates.  I just thought that Deuce sucked it.


Phil

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CompTechFilms
Posted: July 24th, 2005, 9:19am Report to Moderator
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A great movie in my opinion that shows a great sequel is the Halloween 1,2 connection. They should have left the movies at that. Halloween was great and we all know a sequel was not in mind originally. However, those greedy Hollywood *explicitive deleted* decided that it was a big hit and a sequel was shown.

Halloween 2 did what most sequels did not do at the time: continue before the first one ended. That was brilliant and we found out what happened to the Shape. It was well acted and I think at some spots, it surpassed the original, but at other's it was too much like Friday the 13th (a syringe in the eye people!).

That's my ramblings...


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