Okay The Black Swan is open for discussion.  The script being discussed can be found here  http://www.mypdfscripts.com/download/1454

I tried to lead one of these discussions once before. It's hard. Maybe harder than you think. Before anyone starts posting reviews of the entire script or film. Let's start with the over all impression you got from the script and then we can move on to more specifics such as story, plotline, structure, characters, format and what not.

I personally have not finished yet. I got sick with food poisoning on Thursday and is still sick, but I will get to it. I read half of it though and my first impression was great! The pages flew by.

So lets get started. What was your first impression of this script and why did you feel the way you did about it.  


EDIT: MAC if you haven't read the script yet *** BEWARE OF SPOILERS ***

Of course I both read the script (twice) and reviewed the movie for a second and third time.
The notes I'll provide later are excruciating.

I liked both Mark Heyman's and Darren Aronofsky's versions.
- Heyman's stuck pretty darn close to the three act structure.
- Aronofsy did an excellent job of both shifting character focus and story elements.

Heyman sure doesn't have much writing history, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2114730/
The guy did pretty good, even if he did throw in repetitive -ly words and a couple redundancies.

I'm about halfway through and I'm having a very hard time not having my feelings be influenced by the film.

That said, I'll just come out with it and say that I think all the changes made to the script for a final product made it better.

The sexual subtext in the script seems very downplayed compared to the film. I think that was an integral part of the film. Sexuality is inherent in the character of the Black Swan and thus is something Nina needs to explore within herself in order to capture both sides of her role. In the script, it seems like all she has to do is loosen up and dance better. No exploration necessary. Rather than say the script version of the story is shallow, which is a feeling that could only be influenced by having seen the film, I will say that the film was a lot more thoughtful with its storytelling and really built on the themes presented in the base material (Swan Lake).

I also think Nina's relationships with the characters in the script make her much less interesting (so far). In the script, she and Beth are "friends." I suppose it's a dramatic turn when their friendship is severed. Beth is a hero to Nina and for her to be shunned by her hero in the moment when she expects to have won her hero's respect has the potential to be emotionally taught.

At the same time though, I feel like because they're friends, Nina has an in to try and reconcile with Beth. She didn't really seem to try though. The script itself merely tells you their friendship is over in one of the paragraphs.

In the film, Beth's approval is a fantasy for Nina because they're not friends and because they're not friends, Nina cannot hope to try and reconcile anything once Beth turns on her. The broken fantasy seems to be a lot more crushing than a broken friendship in the context of the story. It seems like the Nina in the film would have to work a lot harder to make a friend than the Nina in the script, let alone a friend of her idol, even if their friendship is a sham. Script Nina seems a lot more functional socially. Her lack of functionality in the film and her solidarity are among the things that made Natalie Portman's character interesting.

Also... Erica? Worthless character. Does nothing for Nina except make her look somewhat domineering and as a result, I don't buy that the Black Swan would be as difficult a role to master. Who's this person supposed to be anyways? A maid? I don't like it. They were right to change the character.

At this point, I'm reluctant to finish the script. Not because it's bad but because I think I've been too influenced by the film to make an objective analysis. Still, I stand by my comments thus far.

Thanks Pia,

I do hope you are feeling better!!!

I want to make it clear that right now I'm discussing the script as opposed to the movie at this moment.

The very first thing I noticed a truly appreciated was that we weren't introduced to the protag as

NINA PRETTY BALLERINA, 26, yada-yada-yada.

You don't know how much I get tired of reading that kind of thing although I know it's important and sometimes absolutely necessary to get the important stuff dealt with. Still, from a readers perspective, I like to be entertained and no matter how much someone wants to talk on about scripts being blueprints and yes, all of that is true, I don't want to read a blue-print. I want art and entertainment, first, blueprint, second.

We were immediately shown visually through images and not through dialogue, (for example) how long Nina had been dancing for-- with all those slippers in growing sizes that were nailed on her ceiling, a testament to all of the years of dedication.

Images. This script is loaded with images and emotion.

I have to head out right now, but I'll be back.

Sandra

I watched the movie Thursday night and I'll read the script ASAP, but it's doubtful I will get to it much before the weekend is over.

Personally, I don't think it's the best time to start something like this in the middle of a Huge, long weekend.

I thought we were starting it tomorrow at the earliest?

Oh well, I'll get in once I've read the script.

Quoted from James McClung Also... Erica? Worthless character. Doesn't nothing for Nina except make her look somewhat domineering and as a result, I don't buy that the Black Swan would be as difficult a role to master. Who's this person supposed to be anyways? A maid? I don't like it. They were right to change the character.

Hello James, I appreciated some of your other comments, especially regarding the sexual subtext. It was much more pronounced in the film and I don't want to mention some things just yet, but you are so right.

Regarding me quoting you above though:

I believe that Erica is so very important to the movie; however, it didn't quite come through in the script. Even still, she, (Erica) I believe suffered from a narcissistic personality disorder and so did Nina, (but not so typical a one) who, being a narcissist and the daughter of one, felt compelled to please her mother no matter what.

The problematic relationship is kind of like an axis around which this story rotates. Yes, Nina's life, indeed Erica's, too, is all about The Ballet and making it. Besides that, their life is shallow, the food, meager, even sexuality is repressed. And it all has to do with the faulty relationship and besides a narcissistic type of personality disorder, Nina was slowly going deeper into a kind of madness, fueled by her obsession, fueled by her fears.

I'll leave it at that for awhile.

Sandra

I think it's important to note that out of the 67 pages I've read so far, there's no indication that Nina is related to Erica, let alone her mother. It almost seems like someone Nina's hired to take care of her. That's why I've written her off as worthless. Maybe it's brought up later but if it is, it's far too late and if it isn't... worthless.

Quoted from James McClung I think it's important to note that out of the 67 pages I've read so far, there's no indication that Nina is related to Erica, let alone her mother...Maybe it's brought up later but if it is, it's far too late and if it isn't... worthless.

Page 82.
It's supposed to be some shocking reveal.

Fail.

Quoted from James McClung I think it's important to note that out of the 67 pages I've read so far, there's no indication that Nina is related to Erica, let alone her mother. It almost seems like someone Nina's hired to take care of her. That's why I've written her off as worthless. Maybe it's brought up later but if it is, it's far too late and if it isn't... worthless.

We can see by all actions that she appears to be her mother; however, the behavior is so odd, it's like she's not. This is indeed why Nina calls her Erica, at first, if I'm not mistaken-- to show that something is wrong in the relationship. Later, when she's in the process of her change, she flat out calls her "mom", but it isn't good.

Now ask yourself, "What would be the reason for Nina calling her by "Erica"? Might it have been Erica's request? Because perhaps being called "mother" is just too much for her? Maybe becoming a mother is what ruined things for her.

I don't for one minute believe Erica is a worthless character.

Sandra

The point of including ERICA is to establish that NINA's homelife provides no refuge from her peer/professional world.
NINA exercises so much personal control of self because she cannot control her environment.
Also, it reinforces the single mom and daughter with absent husband/father goobledy gok.
Aranofsky does a much better job displaying the pathology of the issues the self-imposed ballet culture only exacerbates.

I agree wholeheartedly with James.

I enjoyed the script, but it seems almost basic compared to the film, which introduced multiple layers.

Still, it was an excellent script and just goes to show how a talented director can eke out even more.

The main thing I noticed about it compared to amateur scripts: The focus on theme.

The difference in focus to theme between pros and amateurs is VERY noticeable. It's something that first struck me on that one page challenge, and continues to stand out like a sore thumb when I read a pro script in comparison to a pre pro one.

It is THE major difference between pros and pre-pros, in my honest opinion. Pros know their story, and stick to it.

This is a highly focused work and it was very easy to read.

The script is incredibly visual and has Rick has pointed out already, focused. I think the main thing that stands out for me is much focus is put on Nina right from the start and immediately we are taken on her journey of change. The script is also very reader focused with lines that many would regard as unfilmable. Some of the descriptions were just flawless. If a picture paints a thousand words then this shows that screenwriting is that process in reverse, albeit, with a twist. Using as few words as possible to paint a picture. But finding those words . . .

Okay, I'm going to finish the script today. Feeling much better. Thank you Sandra.  

I'm really really bad at describing things and when I try to write what I want to say which sounds good in my head it comes out as mumbo jumbo in text. Therefore I will be short and just say that Sandra's first comment is exactly how I felt about reading the script. I haven't seen the film yet, but the script painted clear pictures in my head. I saw everything clearly. It was a very easy read, at least the first half. The pages just breezed by. Rick also had very good comments that I echo.  I know we've had these discussions before and it's so true. You can tell a pro script from the very start. I'm going to enjoy the sunshine and sit outdoors and read the rest and if time allows watch the film tonight.

So, it looks like the first impression was good from most.

Jeff, yes, I thought it would start on Sunday too, but I guess Cornetto meant Sunday where he is.  

This script was an excellent choice for study, I think, it's stirred up a lot of conflicting thoughts for me.

Early notes...
I read the script first then watched the DVD.  The script seemed to me to be an uneven mix, mostly competent, sometimes vivid and brilliantly concise, sometimes hurried or lazy.
The script seemed to regard the ballet culture as alien, studying broken pieces of it dispassionately, keeping it as a colorful backdrop to a psychological drama.
The character of Erica in the script seemed undeveloped, to me, intended, perhaps to be a foil for Nina, an alternate version of how ballerinas can go bad.
I liked the script but based on the script alone I would not have hurried to see the film.  The script did not seem to me to be in love with Nina or with ballet, just mildly interested in them both.
The character of Nina seemed to be a deliberate mix of beautiful-but-unattractive, a voice in the back of my mind kept saying... for heaven sake, just grow a pair, Nina.  Wings, balls, whatever.

The film seems obsessed with Nina's face, and before the black swan transformation begins, that's not a good thing.  As lovely as Natalie Portman is, her main direction seems to have been "keep that insipid look" -- and to her credit she out-acts the film to the point that her expression seemed to read "hey, who do I have to f*ck and or kill to get out of this picture?  myself? no problem."

However, Nina transforming to black swan, especially the smearing on make-up in the dressing room scenes, makes the film worthwhile, I think, makes me think of the movie with pleasure, forgetting what seemed like lazy story development and paper-tiger villains.

I was disappointed we didn't get to appreciate the final ballet scenes from the audience point of view, we don't really get to experience the performance the way the audience in the theatre does, too bad, I think.
Anyway, once I realized that the film is just a psychological drama, it makes more sense to me; Thomas, Beth, Lilly even Nina's Mom are just ordinary flawed people, it's only Nina's craziness that makes them seem threatening.  And Nina's craziness has little, perhaps nothing to do with artistry, beauty or any of the things that make life precious, I think.

One scene I loved, really loved, was Nina being coached on how to play the black swan by the ballet mistress, the muscles on the older woman's back fall into wing-like formations with no drama at all.

I totally enjoyed the script. I enjoyed the opening visuals of the ballet slippers to the disturbing (if not obvious to me) ending.

I have to comment on Erica as well.  I thought she was a figment of Nina’s imagination, possibly.  Then realized she wasn’t -  that she was an overbearing protective mother who knew her daughter had mental health issues, but to an extent that only hurt her daughter.

Clearly Nina needed meds.  And clearly

Erica was not a useless by far character, she was  needed in order for us to see the backstory and who and what Nina is.

It was painful to read as I have a mentally ill sister, so it really was personal.  They did a good job of showing that mental illness is not always easy to spot.  Nina had them all fooled didn’t she – accept her mother.


There is so much to comment on, but for now, I will say I enjoyed the script and the movie, but the script was more interesting for me.

They left out a few really good visuals, like when she was having sex and saw herself in the mirror but the Nina in the mirror didn’t move with each thrust…(lol) she just stared back at her. That was written well and so interesting a visual.

But then the masturbation part was done super well and when she noticed her mom in the room, well that spoke volumes to how much her mother was way over bearing, trying to keep her a little girl (pink shit and all) and not giving her the privacy a 6 year old needs.  Ugh, that really pissed me off too!

Anyway, more later and I love the comments so far.  Happy 4th.