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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  Script Club XIV - Black Swan Moderators: George Willson
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  Author    Script Club XIV - Black Swan  (currently 22316 views)
dmc2011
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 10:38am Report to Moderator
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I am up for whatever is next.  It's great reading all the diff perspectives and interpretations.
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RayW
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 10:48am Report to Moderator
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 11:16am Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from RayW


This is excellent, Ray!!!

I notice in the film the (borders on exposition) Swan Lake discussion. Minute 8-10

Yes, it was exposition. I noticed that and appreciated it actually. The way the camera moved and all, through the ballerina's, I thought it worked perfectly.
And I can imagine a teacher, not only doing it for the benefit of his girls, but for the benefit of himself, bringing himself into the passion.

I will need to spend some time going over these notes. They are fabulously tedious!  

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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RayW
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 11:25am Report to Moderator
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Thank you, Sandra

I try to create the illusion I'm paying attention.  



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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 3:03pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from RayW
Thank you, Sandra

I try to create the illusion I'm paying attention.  


Damn, Ray.

You've done it again. Sharpest tool in the box.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 3:19pm Report to Moderator
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Just finished and my first impression is GREAT!!!  Had I not got sick last Thursday and then there being a Holiday I would have finished this in one sitting. I hope I read the right version. I had multiple copies on my computer. One had 140 or so pages and the one I finished today was only 107.

Anyway, I think what made the script so good is that the stakes are upped constantly and every lines means something or leads to something. It makes the reader want to continue on and see what will happen next.

I'll try to read all the comments here later tonight, but it won't be until after 10pm.


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 3:53pm Report to Moderator
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Pia, the draft you posted on the first page of this thread is dated 3/25/09 and is a whopping 129 pages, so I'd say you read the wrong one.
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James McClung
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 6:26pm Report to Moderator
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Page 79 and I'm going to stop reading. I can't help but compare the script to the film and in that regard, I'm constantly finding the script lacking. I have no idea how I would've perceived it reading it on spec so I feel like I can't contribute an adequate analysis.

In any case, I'm well aware that the subplot with Nina and her mother bears no fruit in the script. Maybe there's some significance in calling her mother "Erica" but that's nothing compared to what Erica is in the film. The character in the film is domineering and over-protectice yet in as passive-aggressive a manner as possible. In the script, she's filler. She's barely there thus far and any further would be too late to try and build on her character IMO. Any twist revealing her as Nina's mother would fall flat at this point, even if I'd known nothing about the film thus far.

I've gained some insight into how much a script can change in development for production but I really don't feel like I've learned anything I could apply to my own writing at this point. Aronofsky is a talented director. I'm not sure another director (or any writers for that matter) could do what was done with this particular draft.

I'll concede in the sense that if I hadn't seen the film first, I might have had a different opinion but this really isn't doing anything for me. However biased a call I'm making right now... I'm out.


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 7:31pm Report to Moderator
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OK, a few things I'll throw out about the technical aspects of the script, as well as the characters.

It's 129 pages, which is WAY too long.  The movie ran 108 minutes with credits, so the script itself should be somewhere around 95-110 pages, max.

Why is the script so long?

I counted 113 "regular" orphans, meaning, there's probably close to 120...almost 1 per page.  That's over 2 pages of wasted space.

I also counted 85 dialogue orphans, which I really don't personally consider to be a problem, but when you've got a script that's overwritten like this, we might as well take them into consideration.   This is close to another 2 pages of waste.

I didn't count how many extra lines there are based on 2 words spilling over onto the next line, but I know there's alot and I also know based on the way this is written, there's at least another 2 pages of waste there.

I also counted a whopping 73 wrylies!  That's a shitload...way too many, and close to another 2 pages of waste.

I didn't take detailed notes of unfilmables and asides, but there's a crapload, again, and at least 5 pages of waste, based on this.

So there, we have a good part of the reason why it's clocking in at 129 pages instead of where it should be around 100.

But let's look a little closer at some aspects of the script, based on what kind of script it is.

There are very few locations here and none of them require much setup or description, so based on that, you'd think this may actually run shorter than average (1 page per minute of film).

There are also very few characters, and their descriptions are shockingly sparse, not even giving an age for anyone, which, IMO, is a big issue.

It's not really a talky script, and I'd say that the dialogue is less than most scripts.  Heavy dialogue scripts (especially when you have multiple characters conversing) tends to add page length, but actually reduce film time.  Again, not the case here.

It's definitely not a heavy action script, and IMO, is extremely action-lite.  More action can both increase page length (based on how detailed the writer is or needs to be) and film time.  Again, not the case here.

As I've said, the film is much better than the script, IMO.  The character of Nina's Mom, Erica, is handled very oddly, and downright poorly, IMO, in the script.  As many have said, she's a non factor, really and doesn't even need to be in the script.  Now, in the film, her character is both well done, and well acted.  She plays an integral part in the film, and this draft of the script really missed out on that.

I think the same can be said of Lily, to a lesser degree, though.  As I said in my comments on the movie, IMO, Mila Kunis stole every scene she was in.  In the script, although she was still my favorite character, she really didn't do much or have much page time, and as we neared the end, her name was completely omitted, in favor of "Double", making me question the intent of the writer to be possibly saying she was never even a real person to start with.  Quite strange, actually, and handled so much better in the film.

And, I'm going to say again, that I find this script, film, and concept to be very small.  It's tough to connect with Nina as a character because she's so dull and has such a pathetic life.  If she was a different kind of character, I think I'd see this differently and be invested in her outcome and even her journey more.

I prefer big, dynamic characters, full of personality and emotion.  I prefer those that do, as opposed to those who don't.  And by "do" and "don't", I mean take life by the balls, live big, express themselves to others. Those who don't, sit around, and let life pass them by.

Other than Lily, the entire cast was extremely dull and flatline...in everything they did, and everything they said.  One could argue that Thomas/Yevna had personality and lived the way he wanted to...even communicated exactly how he chose to, but we don't really see much of him.  We don't get in his head at all.  In many ways, he's incredibly stereotypical and cliche.  There's nothing he did or said that I found surprising or interesting, and being the 2nd most dynamic character, that's pretty sad.

OK, those are my initial thoughts and some things to chew on.  Let the beat down commence!

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Dreamscale  -  July 6th, 2011, 8:00pm
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Grandma Bear
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 7:53pm Report to Moderator
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129 pages??  The one I read was 107! And I have another version on my laptop that is 142...


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 8:04pm Report to Moderator
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Post # 1, on this thread, from you, Pia, is a 129 page Black Swan script, that you told us to read.  It's dated 3/25/09 on the title page.

I thought we were all reading the same script draft?
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Grandma Bear
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 8:12pm Report to Moderator
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Actually Cornetto picked that one, but his original post is now deleted. I downloaded that version too and I thought that was the 107 page one. Ugh...now I'm all confused.


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 8:16pm Report to Moderator
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I just clicked on it, and it's definitely the draft I'm talking about at 129 pages.  Apparently, you have multiple versions somehow and you chose a different one.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 8:54pm Report to Moderator
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I copied that link from cornetto's original now deleted post.

I downloaded it again on my iPad and got 131 pages...

Regardless, I think we can still discuss the script. I doubt there are huge differences.


So, what about plot and structure? Does BS fall into Blake Snyder's formula for example?


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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: July 5th, 2011, 9:03pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from Grandma Bear
129 pages??  The one I read was 107! And I have another version on my laptop that is 142...


What's going on? I've been gone this afternoon. The script I read was 131 pages.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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