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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  Script Club XIV - Black Swan Moderators: George Willson
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  Author    Script Club XIV - Black Swan  (currently 22318 views)
Grandma Bear
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 12:39pm Report to Moderator
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Dawn, STC is just short for Save The Cat. Check it out. Some swear by it, others don't, but it's still worth looking into.

I thought Erica was well written. I agree that Beth might have been too brief to establish any connection with. I thought Brennan was good. He's probably Yevna in you guy's version.    Lily was a bit of a complicated one for me. I want to see the film so I can see how she turned out.


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 12:43pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
Some swear by it, others don't, but it's still worth looking into.


And yet, others SWEAR at it, or SWEAR because of it!

Pia, I cannot believe you haven't seen the movie still.

Thomas is Yevna, who i guess is also Brennan.

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Grandma Bear
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 12:51pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Pia, I cannot believe you haven't seen the movie still.

Thomas is Yevna, who i guess is also Brennan.



Something happens everyday that takes away my time. Right now I'm planning for a 23-24th shoot of Old Wounds...and there are other things to deal with too. It's not always I can watch at work since the phones keep ringing and people come in. Last night I was really tired by the time I sat down.

Thanks for clearing up the names. Makes me wonder why they were different in the script I read since that was a newer and shorter version of the script. I would assume that one would be closer to the final story.


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dmc2011
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 12:58pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks Pia, Yes, I have heard of it.  I suppose I must try to find it!!!  Thanks!
I think you and Sandra are dead on about Erika, it worked. She was easy to relate to at some level anyway.
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pwhitcroft
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 2:33pm Report to Moderator
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I heard a podcast with the writers of Black Swan and I recall them being very forth coming about the process of writing this. Unfortunately I’m not sure if you can still get the back issues of the Creative Screenwriting Magazine podcast because the interviewer Jeff Goldsmith has now moved on to his “Q&A” format, which is well worth listening to.

From memory, so don’t quote me on any of this, they explained that the original script was called “Understudy” and did not include any ballet.

It was set in the theater and was a psychological thriller centered around an attack on a lead performer, which propels the understudy into the limelight. I believe that a dual personality for the understudy played a key role in it, because as you might guess the issue of whether the understudy committed the crime was a big part of the story. The writer seemed to think this original story is so distinct from Black Swan that it’s possible another movie could be made of it.

Knowing this seems to explain much of where the Beth subplot originated.

Aronofsky liked the script and then began a long process of notes and rewrites. At some point someone noticed the parallels between a dual personality story and the story of Swan Lake, so they tested a version set in the ballet. In turn, this led them to develop the story in a new direction.

The writer mentioned that during the rewrite process Aronofsky asked him to consider the beats of “The Writer’s Journey” by Chris Vogler. I’ve heard it said that “Save the Cat” is itself a variant of “The Hero with a Thousand Faces”, so Black Swan definitely has these core story beats built into it.

When I read the 107 page long script for this I found it to be a sharp clean read. It was interesting that a script that had been so thoroughly developed had quite a lot of things in it that screenwriting convention frowns on.

Specifically there are many examples of telling the actors what emotion or specific reaction they should play. For me these work fine because if you tell an actor to play “Scared” (see page 13), that’s something they can do. A lesson I took from this is that screenwriting experts have gone too far in declaring these sorts of things to be “unfilmable”.

If you look at this script and film it’s apparent that these things are not unfilmable at all. An extreme example is on page 28, at the end of the scene where Nina watches Lily dancing. The script line is “Nina stares at her, attracted and threatened.” This could be a text book example of something we’re told not to write. But in the film Natalie Portman delivers exactly this.

Philip


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 5:28pm Report to Moderator
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Interesting info, Philip.

Since we're all reading different versions of the script, it's tough to quote lines, but I will anyways, from the 129 page draft I read.

You're correct that this script is littered with asides and unfilmables, and IMO, there are most likely 10+ extra pages of waste, because of them.  The line you quoted isn't really an unfilmable, at least IMO, it's not.

But check these out and tell me what you think...

Page 1 - "Self-conscious and hungry for approval, Nina hides her insecurity behind sweet, likable facade."  - This line is really the first intro to Nina, as she opens her eyes from sleep in her bed.  None of this will translate to film in that opening scene, therefor, it's unflilmable and a cheat, actually.

Same page, a few lines down - "...they testify to how long she's been a ballet dancer." - Here, the writer is telling us exactly why we're seeing all these different sized shoes in the shot.  It's a cheat again, and an unnecessary waste of space.

Such examples run rampant throughout the script, and is one reason why the page count is so long, compared to the filmed version.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 5:33pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from pwhitcroft

If you look at this script and film it’s apparent that these things are not unfilmable at all. An extreme example is on page 28, at the end of the scene where Nina watches Lily dancing. The script line is “Nina stares at her, attracted and threatened.” This could be a text book example of something we’re told not to write. But in the film Natalie Portman delivers exactly this.

Philip


Thank you so much for this, Philip.

I remember that line and thought the same thing.

Just want to mention here, that I think it was dmc who mentioned, (apologies if I'm wrong this thread is already getting long) that they were unable to generate any emotion for Beth because she really wasn't shown that much. This is very interesting because that's exactly what's happening in the film:

Korolyevna, in his speech at the gala-fundraiser on page 53:

Undoubtedly, many of you have heard the news
about Beth Macintyre. She is in our hearts. I'm sure
we all wish her a speedy recovery...

But we are not here to mourn. We are here to celebrate.

***That says it all. Cast offs are cast offs. Be they well done
ballerinas or business men whose heart can't take the
indulgent and long lunches of steak and wine, the pressure
of airline life, the fat they've accumulated on their bones....

When they're out, they're out and life goes on.

I think they made the right decision to keep Beth's part short.
They knew and wanted this story to be about Nina. Had they
went off in trying to show more of Beth, they would have lost
focus.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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dmc2011
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 6:20pm Report to Moderator
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I kind of disagree about your post about Beth, respectfully.  It is just the opposite now!

Let me explain myself.  At the beginning of the film and the Script.. there was nothing much about Beth. We didn't care about her and in my opnion, we should have.

Now.. this part that you mention.. "Undoubtedly, many of you have heard the news
about Beth Macintyre. She is in our hearts. I'm sure
we all wish her a speedy recovery...

Does just the oppoiste, it makes us rethink our feelings about Beth and that is why she is so pathetic in the hosspital and it kills use to watch her stab herself after her horrible accicent that we are not supposed to care about - but we do, cause now she is hurt and we are human and we care.

That line you quoted only makes the dude look like a jerk that he is and solidifies thiat in our minds!

IMHO.  
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 6:26pm Report to Moderator
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Beth's character was not handled well, IMO, either.  Kind of a waste with all the hospital scenes and the chit chat about her.  WEAK!
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c m hall
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 7:36pm Report to Moderator
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In the script (page 91 of 129) there's a scene in which Nina fumbles in the kitchen, on her own, in the empty apartment, and the script has the line,
"For the first time in her life, her mother is not there preparing breakfast."

I can see giving that as a direction to the actress but does it belong in the script?


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 7:54pm Report to Moderator
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Exactly, Cathy.  Perfect example of a wasted line.

Also, right above it, another wasted line "The apartment feels strangely quiet.

Now, don't get me wrong guys and gals, I totally understand why one would like and appreciate that line, and also say that it "adds" to the read and the feel that you get from it.

But, in terms of a Spec script, it's a waste...and it's a cheat.

There's obviously a fine line, and sometimes that fine line is quite big and fat.  But, you know...I'm always going to spot this kind of stuff and call it out, cause it's just weak, and doesn't belong in a Spec script.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 7:55pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from dmc2011
I kind of disagree about your post about Beth, respectfully.  It is just the opposite now!

Let me explain myself.  At the beginning of the film and the Script.. there was nothing much about Beth. We didn't care about her and in my opnion, we should have.

Now.. this part that you mention.. "Undoubtedly, many of you have heard the news
about Beth Macintyre. She is in our hearts. I'm sure
we all wish her a speedy recovery...

Does just the oppoiste, it makes us rethink our feelings about Beth and that is why she is so pathetic in the hosspital and it kills use to watch her stab herself after her horrible accicent that we are not supposed to care about - but we do, cause now she is hurt and we are human and we care.

That line you quoted only makes the dude look like a jerk that he is and solidifies thiat in our minds!

IMHO.  


I know I'm weird, but I never thought of Korolyevna as a jerk. I saw him as a man of passion. Of course, he was morally wrong, (in a way) but I believe he had good intentions, wanting to bring Nina out of herself, make her strong, make her transcend the boundaries she had placed upon herself.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 8:17pm Report to Moderator
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Sandra, my dear, you bring up a great point, and one I'll try to engage some peeps on.

The script and movie centers completely on Nina's character, and because of that, no other character has nay real life.  This in itself isn't a bad thing, nor is it different than lots of scripts and movies.

But for me, it's stifling.  I don't get to know anythign about anyone else, cause every scene goes through Nina, and for me, Nina's pretty flatline and dull.

Is Thomas a bad guy?  Nah, he's not a bad guy, just a cliche guy in power, who uses that power to be with the girls he promotes.  It works that way in lots of circles in the same and different ways.

The one "good" thing he does, is promote Nina after she stood up for herself with him, so because of that one good action wei saw from him, we have to think he's a
"good guy".

Same thing but reverse with Lily.  Although she's the most dynamic character by far, and most engaging, we see her spike Nina's drink, and maybe try to sabotage her a bit ion other ways.  But that's the way it goes in this kind of business.  Lily wasn't a bad person, anymore than Thomas was a good person.

They're both who they are, based on their position in this situation, and we don't really ever got to know for sure anything about them.
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c m hall
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 8:37pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff, thanks for answering my question about the wasted line, it's good to know what's acceptable and what's not.  Kind of a slippery slope.
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 6th, 2011, 8:49pm Report to Moderator
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Remember, that's my opinion.  Lots and lots of peeps will swoop in here and say I'm completely wrong...and look...we're looking at an early draft of a script with a $13 Million budget, that grossed $328 Million WW, won awards, and did a shit.load on aftermarket money as well.

It shouldn't be in a Spec script though, whether or not that's what's selling.

Where's everyone else?  Geez...
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