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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  Cautionary tales from production of my scripts Moderators: George Willson
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Pii
Posted: October 27th, 2011, 5:26pm Report to Moderator
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I won't pretend to have more experience than I have or more insight than anybody else who's had their stuff produced before. But I thought that for the new people coming into the community, it might be good to write down my experiences of dealing with production groups and how they never seem to turn out well. The purpose of this is not to make people shy away from giving their material out for production, but to make them see that getting a production deal is not the be-all end-all it sometimes is portrayed as being.

We mostly deal in shorts, because those are in demand and are usually the ones picked up for production. Producing a feature is such a huge undertaking that the opportunity will never be given to the most of us. But the market for shorts is completely different and something you don't read about in the any number of screenwriting books you've read. Therefore it might be prudent to give a one person account of what the market for shorts is and what it is to deal in them.

The good news is that there are a heck of a lot of young filmmakers out there. Some of them are in film schools, some of them are just starting out and there are actors who just need something to act to so that they can produce a demo film for them to sell their talents. So good short scripts are in great demand. In fact, every single one of my short scripts have been attached to a production team at one time or another. (One of them, in fact, has been attached thrice.)

The bad news is that there is absolutely no money in it, and when it comes to the pecking order, you are the lowest form of life imaginable. You have no say, no control and you usually end up rewriting everything about 20 times and the director still does whatever the hell they please. More often than not, it is made clear to you that your presence is simply not needed or wanted after you've provided a draft that they go forward with.

My experiences with production began when about 6 years ago I made an open offer in various avenues to write scripts for free for production groups just as long as they didn't make any money either. I got tremendous response and I was actually attached to write about 10 scripts, several of which I actually completed. I was asked to provide scripts that fit into certain parameters, much like in the case of the OWC and I was happy to oblige. (This might actually be a contributing factor as to why my very first entry was so successful.) I wrote everything from youth drama to cop comedy and horror. It was great practice all around and I was pretty happy to be involved in so many things that were actually going to be produced.

However, most of the groups backed out the moment I provided them the draft. I'd like to think that it wasn't because of my writing and I'm pretty sure that it really wasn't. I think it was simply a case of the groups having a vision of wanting to do something, but once a script had been delivered to them, the realization that they'd now have to actually start doing something was overwhelming. Therefore I wrote a lot of stuff that was pretty much a waste since a lot of them I had no particular passion writing in any case.

But this was not the case for all of them. The most promising project was an offer to write a half-hour sitcom featuring an incompetent detective and his extremely bright assistant. This was actually my favourite project of the bunch and I enjoyed the process immensely. Now, one thing you need to understand is that this project was in Finnish. In Finnish, the written language differs wildly from the spoken language and there was a problem with Finnish television and movies for the longest time that the actors spoke the written language and it made everything sound fake. I was determined to not fall into this trap for my script. But I decided to write the first draft of the script in the written language anyway, since I didn't know what kinds of dialects and actors they were going to attach to the project. I told to the producers that my plan was to correct the dialogue (as well as some plot weaknesses and lame jokes) for future drafts once they had gotten further in the process and knew who would be playing the characters.

Their response was stunning: "No, no. This is fantastic. This is the draft, thank you very much. We'll take it from here."

Lesson #1: Never let the producers commit to your first draft.

Of course I was initially flattered by the fact that they thought my first draft was so good and that they didn't want any changes to it. But I tried to tell them that the dialogue is still wrong and even though the content is about right, the tone isn't. They told me not to worry, they'd keep it in mind. They'd let the actors mold the dialogue to a form that fit them the best. I was very ok with this, since I'm a firm believer in letting everybody involved in the craft of filmmaking practice their creativity. I was still a bit worried about the weaknesses of the draft, but let it go since they seemed to be so enthusiastic about the script.

A year passed, and finally the film was ready. What I saw was pretty abysmal. They hadn't done anything to the dialogue, it sounded like someone was reading awkward paragraphs from a novel. And in addition to that, the sound was so bad that you couldn't understand what they were saying, which is a bit of a problem in the case of a sitcom which is mainly based of verbal humour. I'm a trained sound engineer and had repeatedly offered my help with the sound, but they didn't want me to have anything to do with it. And the production was pretty bad all around, the actors didn't know what they were doing, the cutting killed every joke and the sets changed pretty randomly.

They hadn't shown me anything, not a single frame of the thing until the premiere. I was pretty excited to attend and since they thought they had this big shot screenwriter contributing to their project, my name was hugely featured in all the promotional material. Which is a bit of a problem once the film finishes, everybody's pretty dismayed and the posters proudly say that it was a "Henrik Anttonen" film. I'm still hurting a little from the association when dealing with Finnish production groups.

Lesson #2: Don't attach your real name to it until you've seen the final product.

The second film of mine that has been actually produced has a long and storied history. I won't go into all of it, but it was originally commissioned by a German actress who wanted to produce a short film for promotional purposes for acting agencies. I was happy to oblige, but unfortunately the actress decided to concentrate on her music career a few months after my draft was enthusiastically accepted.

Years passed and this script kind of stuck with me and I actually wrote a couple of new drafts of it even though it wasn't attached to anything. And then one day, someone from the UK contacted me and said that they'd like to produce it as their student film. I was pretty happy about that, because it seemed a bit of a shame that a script I had gotten so much great feedback from (and even got into some writing staffs for web series) had been kind of laid to waste. They just needed some revisions to fit their production capabilities. This is an integral part of the job, so I was more than happy to oblige.

But as weeks went on and the drafts started to fly by, the director didn't seem any happier and demanded different kinds of changes after every draft. I was still playing along, since I knew that it wasn't the easiest script to produce and understood that it had to be modified as they started to gear into production. So everything was business as usual, until one day I got a pretty chilling email.

The director simply stated that we had ran out of time and that he had made his own draft that was attached to the message. What I saw was 4 pages of my text copied and pasted to form a pretty empty shell of a story, more like a suggestion of one rather than an actual tale. But that was not all, he had given himself the sole writing credit for the entire thing even though there wasn't a single word in the script I hadn't written.

I of course contacted him and said that I understood his time pressure and even accepted the fact that this might be the only draft they could realistically produce, but that I thought that I still deserved the writing credit as it still was my story and my words on the page. I never heard from him again and I've never seen a frame of that movie, even though it is my understanding that it was produced, probably without a mention of my name anywhere.

Lesson #3: It's the Internet... if someone decides to screw you over, there's nothing much you can do.

Ironically, the story of that script didn't end there. It was "sold" a third time for a Finnish production group. Again, revisions were made and they seemed pretty enthusiastic about the project until I got an email saying that it didn't involve enough action, gunfire, chases and explosions. Which is not surprising when the script is a surreal drama about a young woman coming to grips with life...

So what's the point of this ridiculously oversized post? I don't want to scare anyone anyone from accepting production offers, getting produced is the point of what we're doing, after all. But I just wanted to share these cautionary tales to the newcomers and maybe help them avoid the same caveats.

My suggestions would be to demand a decent amount of creative control, preferably that the final draft has to get your approval for production. Or course, the writing credit that belongs to you should always be given, but you should reserve the right to use a pseudonym if needed. I'd also urge you to ask to see a copy of the final product before it is publicly released to see what you'll be identified with.

But other than that, there's not much you can do. And, quite honestly, there probably shouldn't be. Filmmaking is a collaborative artform, so it is not your film. It is your script. but it is just the jumping point for a whole host of creative people see the story in their own way and who want to contribute to it. Therefore you shouldn't resist it if your story becomes something that it originally wasn't, unless it is something you really object to. Sure, you should fight for your vision as much as it is appropriate, but at some point you might have to lose control and you need to be ready for that as well.

Lesson #4: Your script isn't a bunch of words. It is about something. Fight for it to be about that to the end, but be ready for the possibility of it being impossible.

I don't know if anyone was interested or if this was in any way helpful. But it was really fun to write, so I guess I win!


The act of writing is a quest to put a hundred thousand words to a cunning order.
- Douglas Adams
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mcornetto
Posted: October 27th, 2011, 5:44pm Report to Moderator
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Very good Henrik, you bring up some excellent points.   I might also add that even though the producers of the film might agree to putting your name in the credits, they often make the "oversight"  of not including it on websites -- or even in the credits themselves.   While I do think it's an actual "oversight" on their part, it happens really frequently, so you need to keep your eye on the credits and make sure you let them know it's not acceptable that you aren't included.
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leitskev
Posted: October 27th, 2011, 6:06pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for sharing, Henrik.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: October 27th, 2011, 6:26pm Report to Moderator
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I kind of disagree on all three counts....... I guess we're all different.  


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Mr. Blonde
Posted: October 27th, 2011, 8:08pm Report to Moderator
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I wish I knew what that was like. Trouble is, I've been contacted by 26 separate people about the same script over the last two years. To my knowledge (and through checking online), it has still never gone past the stage of us agreeing that they're allowed to produce it. Lol.


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Pii
Posted: October 28th, 2011, 6:59am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I kind of disagree on all three counts....... I guess we're all different.  


Please, do elaborate. I'd be very intrigued to hear experiences from other folks. And I'm of the understanding that you have a lot more experience in these things.


The act of writing is a quest to put a hundred thousand words to a cunning order.
- Douglas Adams
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: October 28th, 2011, 7:46am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I kind of disagree on all three counts....... I guess we're all different.  


Could you expand on thagt Mrs Cook?

Would like to hear your side of things.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: October 28th, 2011, 8:28am Report to Moderator
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Lesson #1: Never let the producers commit to your first draft.

Why not? If that's what they like...

Lesson #2: Don't attach your real name to it until you've seen the final product.

Shouldn't you check out the filmmaker's previous work? If they do a crummy job, it's not the writer's fault.

Lesson #3: It's the Internet... if someone decides to screw you over, there's nothing much you can do.

That's true...

"But other than that, there's not much you can do. And, quite honestly, there probably shouldn't be. Filmmaking is a collaborative artform, so it is not your film. It is your script. but it is just the jumping point for a whole host of creative people see the story in their own way and who want to contribute to it. Therefore you shouldn't resist it if your story becomes something that it originally wasn't, unless it is something you really object to. Sure, you should fight for your vision as much as it is appropriate, but at some point you might have to lose control and you need to be ready for that as well."

When someone is interested in your script, they see it their way. They love your script because of the way they saw the script in their head when they read it. IMHO, it's not the writer's job to insist that the film turns out the way the writer wants it. S. King doesn't like watching the films people make of his stories. I think a bunch of them are some of the best films out there. His own productions? They clearly show that he's an awesome writer but pretty awful film producer.

Lesson #4: Your script isn't a bunch of words. It is about something. Fight for it to be about that to the end, but be ready for the possibility of it being impossible.

You sound like a writer that would be a hassle to work with....   and I mean that in a nice way.  

PS. I'm talking about shorts since that's what most people here can expect to get produced.


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Pii
Posted: October 28th, 2011, 9:03am Report to Moderator
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I think I agree with all the points you've made above. My intention was not to imply that the writer should insist on complete control above the production and then throw a hissy fit if everything was not to their liking. Not at all. As we've both pointed out, it's a collaborative artform and the end product will reflect that.

What I'm saying is that regardless of that, you shouldn't take everything they throw at you lying down. If you have a vision, defend it. You'll find that if you work with the right people, they will listen, you will listen to them and you'll come to an agreement on what you're doing that satisfies you both.

About Lesson #1: It's not an absolute rule, just like none of these are. But if a filmmaker says that your first draft is perfect and there's nothing you need to do to improve it or make it fit to their production capabilities better, it's a strong indication that they don't actually know what they're doing. Drafting is an important part of the process most of the time and it improves everything about the final product. Usually.

About Lesson #2: You definitely should check out the work the group has produced before. However, this is not always possible. It might be that the group hasn't produced anything, their productions are not available or their previous productions are so completely different that they don't give you an indication of what they might do with your script. It's a bit of a warning sign, but I'd never say no to a production group like that, because they might produce brilliant work. It's just impossible to know.

And no, I don't think I'm hard to work with at all. I'm actually very accommodating when I'm working with a production group. I write as many drafts as they want and do all the changes they want. I'm willing to work really hard to produce something that they're comfortable putting their effort into. But I don't take everything lying down. If I think that they're taking my story somewhere that I'm not comfortable with, I will say so and explain my position. But in the end, it is the producer and the director who makes the final call and I have no qualms about that.


The act of writing is a quest to put a hundred thousand words to a cunning order.
- Douglas Adams
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James McClung
Posted: October 28th, 2011, 4:16pm Report to Moderator
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I think you've summed up your stance nicely, Henrik. Don't take it all lying down. I agree.

I'm curious to know whether you're talking about shorts or features though. I would make distinctions between the two. I would, for example, never let a director/producer with no past experience or readily available material produce one of my features, thereby bypassing all of the issues you've mentioned.


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wonkavite
Posted: October 28th, 2011, 7:44pm Report to Moderator
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Throwing in my two cents on this thread.  Thanks for bringing it up, Henrik - this sort of thing needs to be discussed.

Though I haven't yet been produced, I had a recent experience that was quite stressful - and highlighted a number of the issues that you addressed in your initial post.

About a month ago, I was approached by a director in the UK, interested in producing my short Bean Nighe.  (It's a gothic horror piece that I wrote as a result of last year's OWC.  While there's a creature/ghost in it, it's primarily a tale of love and loss - more sentiment driven than anything else.)

At first, I was thrilled.  The guy's emails were a bit choppy, but I assumed it was an issue of him being a "texting" sort of guy, and shook off any doubts.  I agreed to let him film the script - with the proviso that I would retain sole writing credit, intellectual rights and final control over any script changes.

He went so far as to scout out a terrific location, sent me shots and asked for a few revisions.  I was all for it, and made the edits...very careful to stay true to the story while enhancing it in the ways that he'd suggested.

He was pleased - then asked for an editable copy of the script.  I gave it to him.

Next thing I know, he's asking for more and more drastic changes (more "lyrical" dialogue, and changes to the characters.)  He sent me his version - and it was an utter disaster.  He'd had a "poet" friend rewrite the dialogue badly, incorporating bad Shakespearean lines.  As for the action - he took a story of a husband meeting with his beloved (dead) wife...and had him choke her, and call her a "bitch"....

Needless to say, I withdrew permission.  Got several emails back, asking me where I "went to school" - because everyone knows that edits like his were proper writing technique.  When I repeated that I'd withdrawn permission (and very politely wished him the best), he responded that he planned to use the location.  He'd just change the script around, and then it'd be his...

As Henrik mentioned, this is the internet.  With intellectual issues like this, there's little that one can usually do.  If I find it's produced, I could go after him.  But would it be worth the legal hassle, or the expense?  (Especially when the person is on a different continent?)  I'll continue to search the web on an occasional basis.  If I find a production of it posted, I'll take immediate action.  Contact the server, and any festivals that it gets submitted to -  inform them of the copyright infringement, and request it be removed.  But that's not 100% protection.  That's just not possible.

But whether or not "his script" ever gets made - it taught me exactly what line I choose to draw when it comes to my scripts.

Cosmetic edits are fine -  even actual changes, that enhance the original.  But when the changes turn a good script to trash?  Sometimes, it's better to just walk away.  Our scripts are too important to give *anyone* complete carte blanche.  

And always...always....insist on final script approval, sole writing credit and retained right to the script - all in writing.  And keep the email/letter in your records.  (For legal reasons, if nothing else.)

My experience might be extreme - but I'm sure it's not unique.  You need to know where to draw the line  - as long as it's reasonable.  And stick to it with integrity.

Cheers,

--J (wonkavite)

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wonkavite  -  October 28th, 2011, 8:52pm
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 28th, 2011, 8:46pm Report to Moderator
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What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from Grandma Bear


Filmmaking is a collaborative artform, so it is not your film. It is your script. but it is just the jumping point for a whole host of creative people see the story in their own way and who want to contribute to it. Therefore you shouldn't resist it if your story becomes something that it originally wasn't, unless it is something you really object to. Sure, you should fight for your vision as much as it is appropriate, but at some point you might have to lose control and you need to be ready for that as well."


I've been saying that since I've started, but most people don't feel the same way. I don't bother trying anymore. People will think what they want until they finally figure it out.

All I can say is "Right on with that statement".

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: October 28th, 2011, 8:58pm Report to Moderator
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That was me quoting Henrik. My point was different....I'm different.  


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Pii
Posted: October 28th, 2011, 9:42pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from James McClung
I'm curious to know whether you're talking about shorts or features though. I would make distinctions between the two. I would, for example, never let a director/producer with no past experience or readily available material produce one of my features, thereby bypassing all of the issues you've mentioned.


I'm definitely talking about shorts. Feature productions I have absolutely no experience of. I've never even written one.


The act of writing is a quest to put a hundred thousand words to a cunning order.
- Douglas Adams
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Scoob
Posted: October 28th, 2011, 10:28pm Report to Moderator
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I had a similar experiences a few years back, a couple of people  ( not at the same time but within the time span of two years) emailed me back and forth about making a script I had written happen. Both seemed legit and I have no doubts they were not thanks to the links they supplied, the mass of information which completly overwhelmed me at that stage and of course, google!

But I blew it because either I had unknowingly developed an ego, said the wrong things at the wrong time (aka disagreed with the changes they wanted) or they just went cool on the whole thing.

I did learn from that little experience though, and as Pia wrote above, you do have to be willing to just let things go. If I could replay that again I probably would have just said " Do what the hell you want with it. Just make it".










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