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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  page 1 of The Source Code/hmmm Moderators: George Willson
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  Author    page 1 of The Source Code/hmmm  (currently 4255 views)
BoinTN
Posted: December 30th, 2011, 5:29pm Report to Moderator
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I think H.I. McDunnough best summarized the most likely path to success when he said, "What it is, is who knows who, and over here ya got favoritism."
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mcornetto
Posted: December 30th, 2011, 5:32pm Report to Moderator
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It all boils down to one thing.  Either someone reads your script or they don't.  They either like what you've written or they don't.   If you keep then intrigued then you can get away with a lot of shit writing-wise.   If you don't, however, you give them an easy excuse to put it down - too many -ing words.  

Anyone involved in your story isn't going to care about what -ing words you've used or what camera angles you've used or what asides you've used, as long as they don't interfere with the flow of information being presented.
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Dreamscale
Posted: December 30th, 2011, 5:58pm Report to Moderator
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Kevin, you didn't even see the movie, so how can you say that what's written gets the job done?  How can you say that insanely long and totally unnecessary character description is remotely important?

You can't.  Period.

What is going on here is that you, like many others, seems to think that because a Produced script contains (fill in numerous blanks here of things that I say are incorrect), then not only is it OK to write the same way, but more-so, if you do, your script has more chance of selling and being produced.

And that's completely inaccurate.

If you wanna be a Pro Quarterback, should you study Tim Tebow's setup, release, and overall throwing technique?  Hell no!

The first page you posted is not the reason this script got made into a $32 Million film.  The writing of this script is not why it got made into a $32 Million film.

The reasons are as I explained in an earlier post - Ripley had clout.  Ripley pitched an idea and was turned down.  he said, "OK, then let me put it down in an actual script and show you how it will work.".  He did.  He turned it in to the same peeps he pitched to.  Someone said, "Yeah, let's do it.".  They did it.  Everyone's happy.

It's kinda like QT submitting a script on cocktail napkins and everyone fighting over the rights to Produce it...well...obviously not quite like that, but hopefully you understand what I'm talking about.
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Dreamscale
Posted: December 30th, 2011, 6:07pm Report to Moderator
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Cornie, that's a good post and something I say again and again...why potentially alienate someone who could be the decision maker?

But then again, if he tuns out to be someone who just can't get enough asides, and loves passive writing, go for it!  

Happy New Year's Eve Eve!
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Grandma Bear
Posted: December 30th, 2011, 6:13pm Report to Moderator
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Since we seem to agree that we are mostly trying to get past that pesky studio reader, I'm curios how many people even get that far? I know people who have sent queries for years and has never even got read by any of those readers.


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LC
Posted: December 30th, 2011, 6:30pm Report to Moderator
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With regard to Kevin's initial observations re the Source Code script, this is mho.

I think it proves it's all about 'story'. All the 'ings' and 'ly's' and 'asides' aren't going to make a hoot of difference except imho to enhance a story as along as they're done well... and that is key.

Plus, as a writer and a reader I really enjoyed reading the description of Colter at the begining. Here's a guy knows what he's doing and is already sucking me into the story with his descriptions!

Source Code, though riding on the coat tails to some degree of Ground Hog Day and just transposing it into a thriller, was a unique idea, compelling, intriguing, entertaining, and that's that. And it hadn't been done before. The abundance of sequels and prequels these days prove unique ideas are thin on the ground.

And, it doesn't hurt that it's quite obviously intelligently written.

I'm not afraid of using the 'ings' etc. I think they can greatly contribute to the natural rhythm and colourful description of a story. Ditto to asides, and sparingly, the use of camera angles. It's just important that a new writer be guided into not overusing them and knowing when & how to use them and not overdo it, thus risking coming off as an amateur.

But when it comes down to it, it's all about story. If you've got that, you're half way there.

And then there is as Pia mentions getting your script into the right hands... alltogether another topic. I still reckon though if you've got a rip roaring unique story it'll eventually find its way into the right hands. Then again I might be being naive about that last part.


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Mr. Blonde
Posted: December 30th, 2011, 9:26pm Report to Moderator
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What good are choices if they're all bad?

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I was perfectly (or almost) fine with everything until:

"Skin burnished by years of desert sandstorms and equatorial sun.
His expression, prematurely aged by combat, is perpetually
wary, sometimes predatory, accustomed to trouble.
Despite his military bearing, Colter wears a button down
shirt and navy sports coat. On his wrist is a digital watch.
It reads 7:40 a.m.
He swallows. A strange, creeping panic.
He has no idea where he is.
EXT. NEW JERSEY COUNTRYSIDE - MORNING
The train hurls straight at us.
NEW ANGLE -- Skimming alongside as the train twists and
turns, sucking up track -- feet, yards, miles of it.
Beneath it, the curving rails, which the rushing train barely
seems to touch. They vibrate with an eerie, dulcimer HUM."

This entire half of the page is an eyesore to me. I don't care about all your flowery, little details. I want facts. Got it. Guy looks military, is on a train, doesn't know who he is. Time for page 2.

That said, I find it curious that they changed it from New Jersey to Illinois.


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leitskev
Posted: December 31st, 2011, 7:06am Report to Moderator
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Jeff

Question: Can you give me an example of a script that represents proper and effective screenwriting...and has been produced or at least optioned. I'd like to check some of these scripts out for my own learning. And, to be honest, I want to make sure this has not become some kind of Holy Grail quest for you. Yes, I understand that poorly written scripts get turned into movies for all kinds of reasons, but given that there are several hundred films made a year, and given that a script is not a piece of literature, but a design for a film, there must be some scripts that get filmed every year that are "correct".

Pia and LC

It does seem to be that the studio reader and other similar types are the gatekeepers that look for these types of things and have STC in their back pocket at all times as well. Fun and Games better begin on page 32! But I suspect, as has been mentioned, that very few if any scripts get through this way anyway. And I suspect that to the extent that stuff does get through to the point of being noticed, the story is good enough that being "correct" doesn't matter. Could those issues be enough to cause a reader to put a borderline script down? Probably, but a borderline script wasn't going anywhere anyway.

I've been reading through the 5 or so scripts on Scriptshadow every week, and trying to work my way through the blacklist. I have yet to find a single script that would be considered "correct" by the purists. Underlining, capitalization for emphasis, sentence fragments, asides...all there in abundance. It's kind of like in Back to School, when the business teacher is explaining to the class the proper business model, and Rodney D is perplexed by the missing stuff, like payoffs to union officials and politicians. There's the classroom model, and then there's the real world model, which the professor doesn't comprehend.
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Pale Yellow
Posted: December 31st, 2011, 10:27am Report to Moderator
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I would bet that his first scripts also had underlining ...ing words...and the such. If the story is great, and the right reader picks it up, then who cares about the other stuff. I've read a lot of produced scripts and hardly any of them follow the strict guidelines we all read about. The whole structure thing, if you ask me, is too rigid...there are probably some readers who look for an inciting incident on the twelvth page and some who could care less about it as long as the set up is there, the conflict is there and the outcome...So, I think it all depends on the reader and the story.

I, as a very new writer, am trying to learn the proper formatting, etc. because my writing isn't great...but I might get something read if it looks proper and I don't come off as a newbie.

When I'm reading in here, I don't stop if format is off or if I see underlined words...I can deal with misspellings...if each line makes me wanna keep reading. If after a page the story is bad, I usually won't keep reading. I'll admit, though, if the logline, title, or opening scene is riddled with grammar, misspelled words, etc it is a huge turn off for me.
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Dreamscale
Posted: December 31st, 2011, 11:09am Report to Moderator
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Sorry, Kev, I don't have the example you're asking for.  Does it exist at all?  I don't know...maybe it is the/my Holy Grail.  I don't know.

But whether or not it does actually exist, isn't the/my point.  The point is not only can it it exist, but it should exist.

My point here would be some simple realities that shouldn't be.

Is it right that millions of Americans have lost their homes to foreclosure?  Nope.

Is it right that millions of Americans have lost their jobs due to mergers and acquisitions...jobs they had for many years and were jobs they were performing well in?  Nope, definitely not right.

Is it right that a happily married man or woman with children would go out and sleep with someone else, all for a single night of lust, and because of it, ruin their partner and family's life?  Uh, no....Hell no.

Again, as I continuously say...

Just because something is, doesn't mean it's right, or the way it "should be".  A produced script is not the epitome of what makes a great script, or what all unproduced writers should strive to replicate.

As Pia said early on in this thread and I completely agreed with, these types of threads have been going on for years and they're always the same.  People can't let go and/or admit that what the "other side" is saying has merit.

I'll say it again and hopefully we'll be done with it.

Anyone can write however they want to, be they Pro, amateur, or brand fucking new.  It's up to each individual to decide what make sense, what makes the most sense, and why.  These decisions should take years, as truly understanding technicalities of this nature is much more than a simple science - as screenwriting itself is both an art and a science, and each screenwriter will put themselves into their work.

But, at the end of the day, there are things that can and most likely will get people into trouble...things that can be easily avoided, if the writer chooses to go that route.  These things can be a death knoll to any script in the hands of any reader.  You'll never know up front exactly who will be reading your script and you'll never know what idiosyncrasies he or she has when reading a script.

If your goal is t carry an egg on a spoon 500 feet and cross a line, you can do it any way you choose.  If you think you have the talent, you can hop on 1 leg the whole way, do flips, throw the egg in the air and catch it, walk backwards, etc.  Or, you can take your time, walk in a straight line, concentrating on making each step count, and getting across the finish line.

The choice is always yours, I just try to help people as much as I can by pointing out potential pitfalls.

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Electric Dreamer
Posted: December 31st, 2011, 11:09am Report to Moderator
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Taking a long vacation from the holidays.

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Quoted from Grandma Bear
Since we seem to agree that we are mostly trying to get past that pesky studio reader, I'm curios how many people even get that far? I know people who have sent queries for years and has never even got read by any of those readers.


I've been fortunate enough to bypass that frightening stage.
Cold solicitation and mass query letters scare the pants off me.
Because they don't allow me to demonstrate my best asset.
And I found out that *I* was my best asset after I did that great podcast here!

Thankfully, I hooked up with a production company through Sherwood Oaks.
They were impressed enough at the event to offer me coverage work.
We're repped by CAA, which in turn, packages and markets our scripts to the studios.
I am part of a core group that pours over our scripts before they get sent out.

I've taken on one of our scripts to rewrite, so that's a three step process:

1) The script has to get a strong consider or recommend from our coverage staff.
2) Then we send that script to our CAA rep and their coverage staff disembowels it.
3) If it passes CAA's muster, THEN they will package it and make the studio rounds.

These are the quality assurances we have to through to get to that studio reader.

Regards,
E.D.


LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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CoopBazinga
Posted: December 31st, 2011, 11:33am Report to Moderator
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Some views from a newbie, uh-oh!

Having seen the film and read this I think it sets the scene perfectly, the only thing I would argue was the introduction of Colter which read overlong IMO. As others have stated though, Ben Ripley had already done other projects, not to say he didn’t write like this previously. It just gives him a little more shall we say free will over other spec scripts.

In saying that, the story is always the major thing that sells, we can all learn the basic formatting over time. Constructing a plot with interesting characters and telling a story is completely different. That is an art that I am still trying to master as well as the formatting may I add.

Kevin

Question: Where are you reading black list scripts if you don’t mind me asking? It would be interesting to take a look.
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Conz
Posted: December 31st, 2011, 11:48am Report to Moderator
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I can't list them off the top of my head, but plenty of professional scripts I read have -ing words in the action lines.

Also, seem to be seeing a lot more "--" in description.  I wish I knew the proper way to use those.

I just read "Imagine" by Dan Fogelman and he even uses elipsis in description, which I've often wanted to do... but I'm not Dan Fogelman.


I'd list my "work" here, but I don't know how to hyperlink.  

"Career" Highlights
-2, count em, 2 credits on my IMDB page.  
-One time a fairly prominent producer e-mailed me back.  
-I have made more than $1000 with my writing!
-I've won 2 mugs... and a thong.  (polaroids of me in thong available for $10 through PM)

@vc_wg - because I crave attention
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Dreamscale
Posted: December 31st, 2011, 11:58am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Conz
I just read "Imagine" by Dan Fogelman and he even uses elipsis in description, which I've often wanted to do... but I'm not Dan Fogelman.


I like using ellipses in action/description lines.  They provide a nice way to break things up.
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bert
Posted: December 31st, 2011, 12:11pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
I like using ellipses in action/description lines.  They provide a nice way to break things up.


The old double dash -- it serves the same function as an ellipse -- but it is somehow speedier and more visual on the page.

Use 'em all the time.  I cribbed it first from Goldman way back when, but they are common now.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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