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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  Writing for characters with unlimited power Moderators: George Willson
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  Author    Writing for characters with unlimited power  (currently 2727 views)
LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 5:50pm Report to Moderator
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I have a story that I have been re-writing for the past 7 years on and off. The issue is how do you control genies with a framework and rule-set that doesn't break the story?

I'd post a few pages, but that would not really address the problem I am having where I need to ask for suggestions from you all. So! I hope you'll bear with me on a quick summary.

Considering that the power of the genies can completely corrupt the story I have in mind, I want to have the genie summoned and the wishes granted as a contract for allowing him into the mortal realm. The wishes can not effect people, only inanimate things. So I think I'm ok with the evil genie and not setting up a situation where everyone will laugh at the story wondering why the bad guy didn't just turn everyone into newts. The genie would be able to walk the world on their own and do what he wishes, but I believe by removing his ability to cast magic, that should contain any holes in the story.

But there is a good genie who was freed a long time ago. She returns to the city to find out why the female protagonist's family was killed. The good genie can do anything she wants with magic. Which is a huge problem.

My intention is that I want the good Genie to help the female protagonist to become a good person again. But when you have, for all intents and purposes, a God walking the streets, how do you keep them from just solving all the problems of the world with a snap of the fingers?

I was thinking that the genie magic could only effect inanimate objects, but I feel like this would diffuse the point of a story of genies before being bottled. That may be minor in respect to the fact that if you have someone that can make objects appear, cause the earth to open up and swallow the bad people... I fear it's not abating the issue so much as refocusing it on something else.  Any thoughts, questions, and ideas you might have would be immensely appreciated.
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mcornetto
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 6:03pm Report to Moderator
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Why not take it as far as you can go with it.  What if the genies can't do anything unless it's wished for - so the limitation would be the human that is making the wishes.

Instead of a struggle between two genies, it becomes a struggle for this human.  Like an angel and devil on the shoulder situation.   That would bring it down to earth.    
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LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 6:26pm Report to Moderator
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Thank you for the reply.

That would likely solve this huge issue. To put these two demi-gods in a situation where they are incapable of doing things the easy way. Where they have to exert themselves in order to accomplish anything at all. Juxtaposing one genie that is working their fingers to the bone to get free and the other remiss of the time when they had powers.

The funny thing is likely that these two genie are supporting characters and not the main hero and heroine.

If they can't cast magic, then the whole magic framework of the world would be lost as well, but I think that that would be an acceptable loss. Though I would be heartbroken after so much time designing it.
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CoopBazinga
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 6:35pm Report to Moderator
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7 years is a long time on one project. My advice would be to put it to one side and write something else, take your mind off it and come back to it in a couple of months. You will see it differently then and will have the fresh perspective to move it forward.

What is the antag’s purpose? He can walk the world on his own and do what he wishes so what is the conflict in this story? Why is the good genie helping the protag? I'm just interested?

Steve
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leitskev
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 6:40pm Report to Moderator
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Usually in these genie stories, or jokes, the idea is be careful what you wish for. So the wisher asks for something, and the genie complies, but the wish doesn't work out the way the wisher wished.(sorry, I had to do that)

If you don't want to go that route, and it sounds like you don't...good! That's been done.

Which leads to the conundrum of genies being able to grant any wish, which is just too much power. I mean, we've all heard to make the third wish a plea for more wishes. Heck, if you had one wish, you'd wish for a ten wishes, which in effect is an infinite number.

I think the answer is that genies are simply not all powerful. Limiting them to inanimate objects doesn't work. Pretty much everything effects people, so the genie would be useless except maybe for grilling hamburgers.

What if you treat genies simply like demons that are summoned? So the genie is not all powerful, does not grant wishes. It merely serves the master, when summoned, as best it can. Perhaps there is a time limit on its service. There can even be some danger involved, as the genie could threaten to turn on the master when its service is done.

The good genie should be more of a mentor. It usually works this way, I think: your protag has a goal, something he has to or wants to do. There are two things he has to overcome to succeed: external obstacle(antagonistic force, or the antagonist) and internal obstacle(his inner flaw). In overcoming these obstacles the theme is revealed. You could have a bad genie that becomes an obstacle, while the good and weaker genie mentors. Maybe greed got the protag into trouble in the first place, and he has to rectify.
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LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 6:49pm Report to Moderator
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Oh, this is after taking a few months from looking at it. When a new idea comes to me about the story, I bring it back up after a long vacancy and put things down, rework a little, then set it aside again because the hole with dealing with the genie's power was too daunting to me.

I'll write a quick outline of the story so you can understand what the context of the 4 characters is. Hope you can bear with me. This is tremendously rough, but should maybe help set the stage.

The BBG summons the bad genie to gain power over the city, kill his enemies who would get in his way, and demands the bad genie serve him personally from the rest of his life. The bad genie can get free if his owner dies, so he sets up the female protagonist to cause problems and cause the destruction of the city, and his owner.

The female protagonist is the daughter of one of the BBG's enemies. Her family is kiled and only she survives because the Bad genie wishes to abuse her. She causes some problems in the city, and is hunted by the male protagonist who is in charge of protecting an absolutely corrupt city that cares nothing for him.

The good genie was once freed by a great great grandmother of the female protagonist and when news passes that she died, returns to find out what happened as a form of respect to the family that gave her freedom. When she sees what the female protagonist is undergoing, she tries to help steer her right.

In the end, the male protagonist turns on the BBG. The bad genie has to defend the BBG because of the wish. The female protagonist comes to help kill the bad genie. The bad genie dies, the male protagonist has to flee the city, the female protagonist sees her family in the afterlife and forgives her father.
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LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 7:00pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
I think the answer is that genies are simply not all powerful. Limiting them to inanimate objects doesn't work. Pretty much everything effects people, so the genie would be useless except maybe for grilling hamburgers.


This is where I excel. I can think of a million ways that effecting the surroundings can turn into an impossible to handle problem. A beam breaks at the wrong time, killing you. A fire starts and the doors are all locked. Forgive the dark tone, but the story is meant to be a very dark telling of life when people can have power, so these are my first thoughts.


Quoted Text
What if you treat genies simply like demons that are summoned?


It's funny. Initially I wanted the genies to be demons and angels, but I felt the religious underpinnings would detract from the events that the main characters were undergoing. So I chose a less controversial setting.


Quoted Text
So the genie is not all powerful, does not grant wishes. It merely serves the master, when summoned, as best it can. Perhaps there is a time limit on its service. There can even be some danger involved, as the genie could threaten to turn on the master when its service is done.


That's a good prospective. What I wanted to do was deal with the two main characters and tell a story of how they cope in a world like this. The genie's wishes are, for now, merely something that is mentioned in passing to explain how the female protagonist came to be where she is, and the BBG is where he is. I wanted to keep their efforts far into the backdrop or the story would turn into something that was too unfocused and confusing from my view.

I will think on, and contemplate this properly. I know there is so many ways I can take the thought I had, the images I see, and turn and color them to do anything, but it's possibly too open for me? Must listen and think on it.
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leitskev
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 7:10pm Report to Moderator
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LK, one mistake that I have made over and over again as a writer, and I've only been writing a year but have done several stories, is that I make plots too complicated. And I think that seems to be the case here as well. A scenario like that works for a novel. But for a screenplay that's going to cause problems.

I can tell you love the story, and you've developed it in your mind for many years, so maybe you could try both approaches at the same time. Develop the wider story as a novel, or at least in notes that could be used for a novel. But for the screenplay, pick something more focused within the story. Or even better, adapt your own novel to a more focused screenplay type story.

To start, pick a protagonist. Not two, one. The other characters will be supporting. The one you choose as a protag should undergo some kind of growth process, a journey if you will, where he learns critical things he needs in order to do what he must do. He is not the same person at the end of the journey. Along that journey is an antagonist, who we meet early, a mentor, and friends, possibly a love interest.

We should know very early on, usually first scene, who the protag is. We should learn early on what he has to do, what the stakes are, and we should get some sense of his flaw. This may seem too simple for what you want to do; save that for the novel. Or an HBO series.

One last piece of advice: I have been converted to the notion that you should write your logline and 3 or 4 sentence pitch BEFORE you begin writing. You can use that to run the idea by others, but even if you don't wish to do that, having these things before you when you start writing will really focus your work. You will have to have those things at the end anyway, when you try to sell your work, so why not create them before, and use them to keep you focused. Best of luck, my friend!
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leitskev
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 7:12pm Report to Moderator
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What is BBG? Big Bag Genie?
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LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 7:25pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
What is BBG? Big Bag Genie?


Big Bad Guy. I get lazy some times and just throw in abbreviations because I know what it means but forget that includes only me, not everyone else too. My apologies.


Quoted Text
LK, one mistake that I have made over and over again as a writer, and I've only been writing a year but have done several stories, is that I make plots too complicated. And I think that seems to be the case here as well. A scenario like that works for a novel. But for a screenplay that's going to cause problems.


That is the second largest issue. Very good observation. I have been trimming it down further and further for a while, trying to get to the heart of the story I wish without loosing the idea I had that started it all. Which is why I have been looking at it on and off for so long. It's hard for me to let go of something I envision.

The two main character is intentional because I believe this is how it needs to be told. Right or wrong, though likely wrong, I can put the whole story simply as: A troubled child comes to cherish life and make it mean something while the city's greatest protector loses to self-doubt and causes the city to fall into chaos.
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 7:33pm Report to Moderator
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Figure out what the protagonist story and make everything fit around that. Don't get caught up with other stuff. focus on the protagonist, everything else will fall into place. Also, be open minded to change certain things even though you might love something.


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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leitskev
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 7:43pm Report to Moderator
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I hear you, LK. That's why I suggest you do a novel AND a screen. Which sounds crazy, but I don't think you will feel satisfied doing just a screen, at least if you do an effective screenplay. You want your whole story to be told, and the only way will be a novel. For an effective screenplay, you simply are going to have to cut this down and focus on some part of the larger tale.

No reason one of your protags can't be cut back to a more secondary role, is there? I mean it can still be an important role. The emotional part of the journey should be with one protagonist in a story like this, which is fantasy. I can't think of any fantasy genre films where there is not a protagonist, a hero who we focus on.
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LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 8:00pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
No reason one of your protags can't be cut back to a more secondary role, is there?


Yes, you are right. I understand. But before I can re-write I really have to set in stone the rules for the 2 genies, otherwise I'll end up back where I am now, which is knowing full well what I have put to paper can't work. Like 2 actors without a stage.

I have thought about the novelization of my idea, but I know my command of the English language isn't expansive enough to be viewed respectfully, and I am more interested in seeing the visualization of the story. Guiltily, I would like to fill a void that I feel is missing from Hollywood movies as well. Don't tell anyone, they'll think I'm arrogant. XD
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leitskev
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 8:08pm Report to Moderator
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I think worrying about rules to limit the genies could be a problem. If you going to have rules, they have to not only make sense, they have to be something the audience can easily understand. The problem, I don't, is the rules. The problem stems from the concept of wishes. Once you have the notion of, "Ok, I will grant you 3 wishes", then you either have all powerful genies, or you have to lawyer up your genies by having them say, "I grant you 3 wishes, as long as you don't, and I can't...".

If you get rid of the wish idea, you no longer have the problem. If the genies are spirits with some limited power to help, you should be all set. If you want to put a limitation on the service of the genies, make a time limitation. "You, sir, are my master for 1 day, and I will aid you in any way I can in that time!" Or, the master can have control over the genie as long as they hold a certain object, maybe. Maybe the master wheres a ring over his neck that gives him power over the spirit.

I think it's the wish idea that starts all the trouble for you.
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LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 8:26pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
I think it's the wish idea that starts all the trouble for you.


Very much so! The story needs the genies in my conceptualization, but how I handle them can either compliment what the protagonist does or make the actions completely inane. I read the replies, and I thank all of you for them, over and over because I know the initial reaction is the one that will make the most sense to viewers. If it requires a lot of thought and explanation, it's a bad idea.
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