SimplyScripts Discussion Board
Blog Home - Produced Movie Script Library - TV Scripts - Unproduced Scripts - Contact - Site Map
ScriptSearch
Welcome, Guest.
It is March 28th, 2024, 8:00am
Please login or register.
Was Portal Recent Posts Home Help Calendar Search Register Login
Please do read the guidelines that govern behavior on the discussion board. It will make for a much more pleasant experience for everyone. A word about SimplyScripts and Censorship


Produced Script Database (Updated!)
One Week Challenge - Who Wrote What and Writers' Choice.


Scripts studios are posting for award consideration

Short Script of the Day | Featured Script of the Month | Featured Short Scripts Available for Production
Submit Your Script

How do I get my film's link and banner here?
All screenplays on the simplyscripts.com and simplyscripts.net domain are copyrighted to their respective authors. All rights reserved. This screenplaymay not be used or reproduced for any purpose including educational purposes without the expressed written permission of the author.
Forum Login
Username: Create a new Account
Password:     Forgot Password

SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  Writing for characters with unlimited power Moderators: George Willson
Users Browsing Forum
No Members and 5 Guests

 Pages: 1, 2, 3 : All
Recommend Print
  Author    Writing for characters with unlimited power  (currently 2725 views)
LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 5:50pm Report to Moderator
New


Posts
12
Posts Per Day
0.00
I have a story that I have been re-writing for the past 7 years on and off. The issue is how do you control genies with a framework and rule-set that doesn't break the story?

I'd post a few pages, but that would not really address the problem I am having where I need to ask for suggestions from you all. So! I hope you'll bear with me on a quick summary.

Considering that the power of the genies can completely corrupt the story I have in mind, I want to have the genie summoned and the wishes granted as a contract for allowing him into the mortal realm. The wishes can not effect people, only inanimate things. So I think I'm ok with the evil genie and not setting up a situation where everyone will laugh at the story wondering why the bad guy didn't just turn everyone into newts. The genie would be able to walk the world on their own and do what he wishes, but I believe by removing his ability to cast magic, that should contain any holes in the story.

But there is a good genie who was freed a long time ago. She returns to the city to find out why the female protagonist's family was killed. The good genie can do anything she wants with magic. Which is a huge problem.

My intention is that I want the good Genie to help the female protagonist to become a good person again. But when you have, for all intents and purposes, a God walking the streets, how do you keep them from just solving all the problems of the world with a snap of the fingers?

I was thinking that the genie magic could only effect inanimate objects, but I feel like this would diffuse the point of a story of genies before being bottled. That may be minor in respect to the fact that if you have someone that can make objects appear, cause the earth to open up and swallow the bad people... I fear it's not abating the issue so much as refocusing it on something else.  Any thoughts, questions, and ideas you might have would be immensely appreciated.
Logged Offline
Private Message
mcornetto
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 6:03pm Report to Moderator
Guest User



Why not take it as far as you can go with it.  What if the genies can't do anything unless it's wished for - so the limitation would be the human that is making the wishes.

Instead of a struggle between two genies, it becomes a struggle for this human.  Like an angel and devil on the shoulder situation.   That would bring it down to earth.    
Logged
e-mail Reply: 1 - 30
LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 6:26pm Report to Moderator
New


Posts
12
Posts Per Day
0.00
Thank you for the reply.

That would likely solve this huge issue. To put these two demi-gods in a situation where they are incapable of doing things the easy way. Where they have to exert themselves in order to accomplish anything at all. Juxtaposing one genie that is working their fingers to the bone to get free and the other remiss of the time when they had powers.

The funny thing is likely that these two genie are supporting characters and not the main hero and heroine.

If they can't cast magic, then the whole magic framework of the world would be lost as well, but I think that that would be an acceptable loss. Though I would be heartbroken after so much time designing it.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 2 - 30
CoopBazinga
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 6:35pm Report to Moderator
Old Timer



Location
Perth, Australia
Posts
1175
Posts Per Day
0.26
7 years is a long time on one project. My advice would be to put it to one side and write something else, take your mind off it and come back to it in a couple of months. You will see it differently then and will have the fresh perspective to move it forward.

What is the antag’s purpose? He can walk the world on his own and do what he wishes so what is the conflict in this story? Why is the good genie helping the protag? I'm just interested?

Steve
Logged
Private Message Reply: 3 - 30
leitskev
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 6:40pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


Posts
3113
Posts Per Day
0.64
Usually in these genie stories, or jokes, the idea is be careful what you wish for. So the wisher asks for something, and the genie complies, but the wish doesn't work out the way the wisher wished.(sorry, I had to do that)

If you don't want to go that route, and it sounds like you don't...good! That's been done.

Which leads to the conundrum of genies being able to grant any wish, which is just too much power. I mean, we've all heard to make the third wish a plea for more wishes. Heck, if you had one wish, you'd wish for a ten wishes, which in effect is an infinite number.

I think the answer is that genies are simply not all powerful. Limiting them to inanimate objects doesn't work. Pretty much everything effects people, so the genie would be useless except maybe for grilling hamburgers.

What if you treat genies simply like demons that are summoned? So the genie is not all powerful, does not grant wishes. It merely serves the master, when summoned, as best it can. Perhaps there is a time limit on its service. There can even be some danger involved, as the genie could threaten to turn on the master when its service is done.

The good genie should be more of a mentor. It usually works this way, I think: your protag has a goal, something he has to or wants to do. There are two things he has to overcome to succeed: external obstacle(antagonistic force, or the antagonist) and internal obstacle(his inner flaw). In overcoming these obstacles the theme is revealed. You could have a bad genie that becomes an obstacle, while the good and weaker genie mentors. Maybe greed got the protag into trouble in the first place, and he has to rectify.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 4 - 30
LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 6:49pm Report to Moderator
New


Posts
12
Posts Per Day
0.00
Oh, this is after taking a few months from looking at it. When a new idea comes to me about the story, I bring it back up after a long vacancy and put things down, rework a little, then set it aside again because the hole with dealing with the genie's power was too daunting to me.

I'll write a quick outline of the story so you can understand what the context of the 4 characters is. Hope you can bear with me. This is tremendously rough, but should maybe help set the stage.

The BBG summons the bad genie to gain power over the city, kill his enemies who would get in his way, and demands the bad genie serve him personally from the rest of his life. The bad genie can get free if his owner dies, so he sets up the female protagonist to cause problems and cause the destruction of the city, and his owner.

The female protagonist is the daughter of one of the BBG's enemies. Her family is kiled and only she survives because the Bad genie wishes to abuse her. She causes some problems in the city, and is hunted by the male protagonist who is in charge of protecting an absolutely corrupt city that cares nothing for him.

The good genie was once freed by a great great grandmother of the female protagonist and when news passes that she died, returns to find out what happened as a form of respect to the family that gave her freedom. When she sees what the female protagonist is undergoing, she tries to help steer her right.

In the end, the male protagonist turns on the BBG. The bad genie has to defend the BBG because of the wish. The female protagonist comes to help kill the bad genie. The bad genie dies, the male protagonist has to flee the city, the female protagonist sees her family in the afterlife and forgives her father.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 5 - 30
LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 7:00pm Report to Moderator
New


Posts
12
Posts Per Day
0.00

Quoted from leitskev
I think the answer is that genies are simply not all powerful. Limiting them to inanimate objects doesn't work. Pretty much everything effects people, so the genie would be useless except maybe for grilling hamburgers.


This is where I excel. I can think of a million ways that effecting the surroundings can turn into an impossible to handle problem. A beam breaks at the wrong time, killing you. A fire starts and the doors are all locked. Forgive the dark tone, but the story is meant to be a very dark telling of life when people can have power, so these are my first thoughts.


Quoted Text
What if you treat genies simply like demons that are summoned?


It's funny. Initially I wanted the genies to be demons and angels, but I felt the religious underpinnings would detract from the events that the main characters were undergoing. So I chose a less controversial setting.


Quoted Text
So the genie is not all powerful, does not grant wishes. It merely serves the master, when summoned, as best it can. Perhaps there is a time limit on its service. There can even be some danger involved, as the genie could threaten to turn on the master when its service is done.


That's a good prospective. What I wanted to do was deal with the two main characters and tell a story of how they cope in a world like this. The genie's wishes are, for now, merely something that is mentioned in passing to explain how the female protagonist came to be where she is, and the BBG is where he is. I wanted to keep their efforts far into the backdrop or the story would turn into something that was too unfocused and confusing from my view.

I will think on, and contemplate this properly. I know there is so many ways I can take the thought I had, the images I see, and turn and color them to do anything, but it's possibly too open for me? Must listen and think on it.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 6 - 30
leitskev
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 7:10pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


Posts
3113
Posts Per Day
0.64
LK, one mistake that I have made over and over again as a writer, and I've only been writing a year but have done several stories, is that I make plots too complicated. And I think that seems to be the case here as well. A scenario like that works for a novel. But for a screenplay that's going to cause problems.

I can tell you love the story, and you've developed it in your mind for many years, so maybe you could try both approaches at the same time. Develop the wider story as a novel, or at least in notes that could be used for a novel. But for the screenplay, pick something more focused within the story. Or even better, adapt your own novel to a more focused screenplay type story.

To start, pick a protagonist. Not two, one. The other characters will be supporting. The one you choose as a protag should undergo some kind of growth process, a journey if you will, where he learns critical things he needs in order to do what he must do. He is not the same person at the end of the journey. Along that journey is an antagonist, who we meet early, a mentor, and friends, possibly a love interest.

We should know very early on, usually first scene, who the protag is. We should learn early on what he has to do, what the stakes are, and we should get some sense of his flaw. This may seem too simple for what you want to do; save that for the novel. Or an HBO series.

One last piece of advice: I have been converted to the notion that you should write your logline and 3 or 4 sentence pitch BEFORE you begin writing. You can use that to run the idea by others, but even if you don't wish to do that, having these things before you when you start writing will really focus your work. You will have to have those things at the end anyway, when you try to sell your work, so why not create them before, and use them to keep you focused. Best of luck, my friend!
Logged
Private Message Reply: 7 - 30
leitskev
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 7:12pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


Posts
3113
Posts Per Day
0.64
What is BBG? Big Bag Genie?
Logged
Private Message Reply: 8 - 30
LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 7:25pm Report to Moderator
New


Posts
12
Posts Per Day
0.00

Quoted from leitskev
What is BBG? Big Bag Genie?


Big Bad Guy. I get lazy some times and just throw in abbreviations because I know what it means but forget that includes only me, not everyone else too. My apologies.


Quoted Text
LK, one mistake that I have made over and over again as a writer, and I've only been writing a year but have done several stories, is that I make plots too complicated. And I think that seems to be the case here as well. A scenario like that works for a novel. But for a screenplay that's going to cause problems.


That is the second largest issue. Very good observation. I have been trimming it down further and further for a while, trying to get to the heart of the story I wish without loosing the idea I had that started it all. Which is why I have been looking at it on and off for so long. It's hard for me to let go of something I envision.

The two main character is intentional because I believe this is how it needs to be told. Right or wrong, though likely wrong, I can put the whole story simply as: A troubled child comes to cherish life and make it mean something while the city's greatest protector loses to self-doubt and causes the city to fall into chaos.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 9 - 30
Mr.Ripley
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 7:33pm Report to Moderator
January Project Group


Writing

Location
New York
Posts
1979
Posts Per Day
0.31
Figure out what the protagonist story and make everything fit around that. Don't get caught up with other stuff. focus on the protagonist, everything else will fall into place. Also, be open minded to change certain things even though you might love something.


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
Logged
Site Private Message Reply: 10 - 30
leitskev
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 7:43pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


Posts
3113
Posts Per Day
0.64
I hear you, LK. That's why I suggest you do a novel AND a screen. Which sounds crazy, but I don't think you will feel satisfied doing just a screen, at least if you do an effective screenplay. You want your whole story to be told, and the only way will be a novel. For an effective screenplay, you simply are going to have to cut this down and focus on some part of the larger tale.

No reason one of your protags can't be cut back to a more secondary role, is there? I mean it can still be an important role. The emotional part of the journey should be with one protagonist in a story like this, which is fantasy. I can't think of any fantasy genre films where there is not a protagonist, a hero who we focus on.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 11 - 30
LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 8:00pm Report to Moderator
New


Posts
12
Posts Per Day
0.00

Quoted from leitskev
No reason one of your protags can't be cut back to a more secondary role, is there?


Yes, you are right. I understand. But before I can re-write I really have to set in stone the rules for the 2 genies, otherwise I'll end up back where I am now, which is knowing full well what I have put to paper can't work. Like 2 actors without a stage.

I have thought about the novelization of my idea, but I know my command of the English language isn't expansive enough to be viewed respectfully, and I am more interested in seeing the visualization of the story. Guiltily, I would like to fill a void that I feel is missing from Hollywood movies as well. Don't tell anyone, they'll think I'm arrogant. XD
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 12 - 30
leitskev
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 8:08pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


Posts
3113
Posts Per Day
0.64
I think worrying about rules to limit the genies could be a problem. If you going to have rules, they have to not only make sense, they have to be something the audience can easily understand. The problem, I don't, is the rules. The problem stems from the concept of wishes. Once you have the notion of, "Ok, I will grant you 3 wishes", then you either have all powerful genies, or you have to lawyer up your genies by having them say, "I grant you 3 wishes, as long as you don't, and I can't...".

If you get rid of the wish idea, you no longer have the problem. If the genies are spirits with some limited power to help, you should be all set. If you want to put a limitation on the service of the genies, make a time limitation. "You, sir, are my master for 1 day, and I will aid you in any way I can in that time!" Or, the master can have control over the genie as long as they hold a certain object, maybe. Maybe the master wheres a ring over his neck that gives him power over the spirit.

I think it's the wish idea that starts all the trouble for you.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 13 - 30
LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 8:26pm Report to Moderator
New


Posts
12
Posts Per Day
0.00

Quoted from leitskev
I think it's the wish idea that starts all the trouble for you.


Very much so! The story needs the genies in my conceptualization, but how I handle them can either compliment what the protagonist does or make the actions completely inane. I read the replies, and I thank all of you for them, over and over because I know the initial reaction is the one that will make the most sense to viewers. If it requires a lot of thought and explanation, it's a bad idea.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 14 - 30
leitskev
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 8:40pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


Posts
3113
Posts Per Day
0.64
If you want, LK, write a log and a 4 sentence pitch and post it here. That will help you focus, and let people give you some feedback.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 15 - 30
LKD
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 10:41pm Report to Moderator
New


Posts
12
Posts Per Day
0.00
All right, lets see if this is comprehendable:

A young girl in a corrupt city of hedonistic alchemical magic seeks salvation by following a path to madness laid by a magical creature hoping she'll bring its freedom.

This is a combination of horror and fantasy action within a city on the brink of anarchy where magic is power anyone can buy. A young girl has her family taken from her horrifically then persuaded by a conniving genie to kill to reunite with her mother. Each murder destroys more of her sanity, but an old acquaintance instills clarity to realize these acts are wrong. She finally stands up for herself by facing the genie, sacrificing her life to end the creature's and redeem her soul.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 16 - 30
wonkavite
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 11:36pm Report to Moderator
Guest User




Quoted from LKD

I have thought about the novelization of my idea, but I know my command of the English language isn't expansive enough to be viewed respectfully


LKD - haven't gotten involved too much in this thread (I think you've got a lot of good people contributing on that already) - but had to say: from what I've seen of your posts here, you seem to have a *very solid* command of the English language.  Much better than some I've seen elsewhere...

Cheers,

-Wonka (J)
Logged
e-mail Reply: 17 - 30
Kevan R. Craft
Posted: February 3rd, 2012, 10:17am Report to Moderator
New


Posts
30
Posts Per Day
0.01
I WROTE A 120 PAGE SCRIPT BUT CAN’T WRITE A LOGLINE: THE CONSTRUCTION OF A LOGLINE
by Christopher Lockhart

Original article in PDF format (14 pages)
http://www.mediafire.com/?gkfsky101410q2g

I WROTE A 120 PAGE SCRIPT BUT CAN’T WRITE A LOGLINE: THE CONSTRUCTION OF A LOGLINE
by Christopher Lockhart

Newly Expanded article (54 pages)
http://www.twoadverbs.com/logline.pdf

I suggest you read both articles above. Download them both and read them through a couple of times.

You need to learn to write decent loglines which consolidate your two main characters and condense your main story.

A logline conveys the dramatic story of a screenplay in the most abbreviated manner possible. It presents the major throughline of the dramatic narrative without character intricacies and sub-plots. It is the story boiled down to its base. A good logline is one sentence. More complicated screenplays may need a two sentence logline. There are available templates to assist writers, but theses aids often leave the logline sounding pedagogical rather than dramatic and slick. A writer must learn the elements of how to construct a logline.

The basic rule of thumb is:-

A logline must present:

1. who the story is about (protagonist)
2. what he strives for (goal)
3. what stands in his way (antagonistic force).

Sometimes a logline must include a brief set-up. A logline does not tell the entire story. It merely uses these three (sometimes four) major story elements to depict the dramatic narrative in an orderly and lucid manner. For instance, a logline for THE WIZARD OF OZ may read:

Example Logline
After a twister transports a lonely Kansas farm girl to a magical land, she sets out on a dangerous journey to find a wizard with the power to send her home.

You need to use a logline to help you write your story and consolidate in your own mind who your protagonist is and who or what your antagonist force is.

A logline not only helps you write your screenplay but a logline is also used to pitch the story of your screenplay to those who matter, folk in the industry who may request to read your completed screenplay.

But for now, I would practice writing a logline in one or two sentences which helps frame your idea into a basic premise of your story.

It doesn't matter how many times you write a logline. You can write as many as you like until you have one which you prefer.

Many writers write many variants of the same logline and eventually when they have completed their screenplay even write many more loglines until they find the right combination of words which best sums up their screen story.

Writing loglines is a skill and is best practiced by any aspiring screenwriter because it helps hone in, not only logline writing skills, but your logline is a selling tool to help you pitch your story ideas to others, particularly those who matter in the movie industry.

Once you have a logline you are happy with so you know the basics of your story you can produce an outline and flesh out the story in more detail as you plan out your script.

There are many ways to write an outline using many methods including many sequence methods. One such sequencing method is *Save the Cat* by Blake Snyder..

I would suggest if you don't already have the published book *Save the Cat* by Blake Snyder then buy it from Amazon and read it thoroughly to help map out your 3 acts of your screenplay.

You can also purchase a software program called *Save the Cat* which helps a writer to collect all their ideas so these many be included into their outlines.

Like the book and the ideas suggested using Blake Snyder's method, you start with a title, then choose a genre, then a logline and then produce a beatsheet and from the beatsheet you take this to a board consisting of multiple index cards over a 3 act structure, and find the best choices which fit your story ideas into those beats, scenes, sequences and finally acts in order to end up with a tight outlined structure which you use to eventually write your screenplay.

It is no good having a half-baked idea! You need to develop industry working practices into your own working habits and the first thing you can do is start by  reading those articles on how to write a logline by Christopher Lockhart.

When you've read those articles I suggest you acquire that Save the Cat book written by the late Blake Snyder and the knowledge from those resources will assist you greatly in your quest to write a screenplay..

There are other methods out there for writing outlines/beatsheets such as Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, Christopher Vogler's The Writer's Journey, Truby's Sequence method and many more but the Blake Snyder Save the Cat method is sound, simple to grasp and works 100 per cent.

Save The Cat! The Last Book on Screenwriting You'll Ever Need [Paperback]
Blake Snyder (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Save-Las.....328281161&sr=8-1
Price:      $13.21

Blake Snyder's blog and STC forum
http://www.blakesnyder.com/

Save The Cat Software (for PC, Mac OSX)
(Download)
$99.95
https://www.blakesnyder.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=23

If you have an iPhone or iPad you can acquire the STC software as an app for an additional small fee once you become a registered user of the main software for the PC or Mac)

You don't actually need the software because you can produce beetsheets and outlines using Microsoft Word templates. I have the software on both my PC and Mac and fully recommend it particularly the latest version 3 which is much improved since the program was first published in version 1.. The options available now in v3 are outstanding for producing title, genre, logline, beetsheet and outline. You won't look back if you acquire the software.

But purchase the book first, even as a Kindle eBook if you don't wish to purchase the paperback and again, you won't look back. The book will be a tremendous help to you in writing screenplays.

The screenplay is a final document which presents all your ideas into a particular form where all your ideas are consolidated into a story with a beginning, a middle and an end. But to get to a screenplay you *MUST* plan your story, your plot, your subplot/s, your beats, your scenes, your sequences and acts, your beginning, middle and end before you even write FADE IN:

So when you have a logline, a beatsheet and outline, you know exactly how your story begins and ends, you know all your characters and the screenplay basically writes itself.

Call it a plan if you will, a map which guides you through a maze, a map to help you travel a journey until you locate the end of that journey and you finally write FADE OUT:

THE END

Hope this helps any..
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 18 - 30
LKD
Posted: February 3rd, 2012, 6:51pm Report to Moderator
New


Posts
12
Posts Per Day
0.00
Thank you kindly. I'll read on it.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 19 - 30
Kevan R. Craft
Posted: February 4th, 2012, 10:02pm Report to Moderator
New


Posts
30
Posts Per Day
0.01

Quoted from LKD
Thank you kindly. I'll read on it.


The great thing about loglines is you can write variants, have fun with it and write many based on the first one you started with.. It is great practice and help you see your story in one or two sentences..

If you post some brief information about your story, who your protag and antag characters are and if you have an ending for your story, I'll help you write a killer longline..



Kevan
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 20 - 30
LKD
Posted: February 4th, 2012, 11:19pm Report to Moderator
New


Posts
12
Posts Per Day
0.00
Thank you very much. That's a phenomenal offer, as brevity is not my strong suit.

The protag is a young girl looking to be reunited with her mother in the afterlife. The antag is an evil genie looking to gain freedom through his master's death. And at the end, the protag persuades the man who was hunting her through the whole story to kill the genie.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 21 - 30
Electric Dreamer
Posted: February 5th, 2012, 10:02am Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Taking a long vacation from the holidays.

Location
Los Angeles
Posts
2740
Posts Per Day
0.55
My best advice would be to check out the new theatrical feature, "Chronicle".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1706593/
That's a well reviewed film dealing with absolute power over physics.
It may provide you with some insight and avoiding repetition with their themes.

E.D.


LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 22 - 30
LKD
Posted: February 5th, 2012, 10:52am Report to Moderator
New


Posts
12
Posts Per Day
0.00
Electric Dreamer,

I saw that preview. That's exactly the kind of feel I was looking for, where magic had real life ramifications. Where it wasn't something that was clean and idealized.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 23 - 30
Kevan R. Craft
Posted: February 5th, 2012, 11:15am Report to Moderator
New


Posts
30
Posts Per Day
0.01

Quoted from LKD
Thank you very much. That's a phenomenal offer, as brevity is not my strong suit.

The protag is a young girl looking to be reunited with her mother in the afterlife. The antag is an evil genie looking to gain freedom through his master's death. And at the end, the protag persuades the man who was hunting her through the whole story to kill the genie.


Hi LKD

Thanks for returning and providing the information.

The majority of information you have provided is very good but I do see one major issue or problem and this is mainly to do with your intended ending for your script story.

In any story your protagonist is the hero, and it is is generally agreed that it should be the protagonist who stops or kills the antagonist, not somebody else. So this basic problem needs to be resolved in order to tighten your story idea so the ending shows your protagonist killing the antagonist character.. Once you do that your story will display both the inner and outer dynamics of conflict and be the best course of action to finally resolve the major conflict during the ending.

So here's how we structure your logline using Christopher Lockharts logline model.

1. Your hero is the protagonist.

2. The hero's goal is she needs to free her mother trapped in the afterlife.

3. It is the antagonist force (antagonist) which prevents the protagonist from achieving their goal.

Obviously, from reading the basic information you have provide, it reads like the antagonist has kidnapped the protagonist's mother and imprisoned her in a dark abyss in the afterlife.

I can also see another problem and this is the use of a man as a surrogate antagonist. That is the man character you refer to who plaques the young girl protagonist through the majority of the story (in the afterlife). Although this is not a major issue in itself, because this is done time and time again in screenplay stories, these are referred to as "surrogate antagonist" or "henchmen" or "antagonist allies", I think for your screenplay to be tight and on the money to concentrate on a single antagonist character. Let all conflict in the story stem from the main antagonist character the main genie. He alone instigates all conflict. Whatever he does, whatever actions he undertakes influences the antagonist force because he is that antagonist force. It takes an experienced screenwriter to play around with multiple antagonists, surrogate antagonists and shifting antagonists to service a complicated plot. For your script I seriously suggest you keep it simple and basic and only use the main antagonist. That way you are not hiding behind surrogates or shifting in a complicated plot to hide plot points or to service plot points in your story but use the main antagonist to service your story, to provide the conflict and dictate the very plot points within your script story.

Doing this will provide a concrete basis for your story and enable you to concentrate on those elements required for a screenplay story. It is the choices you make for your scenes and the conflict within them which will dictate the drama in your story.

You can still use surrogates and henchmen, antagonist's ally characters sent by the antagonist to prevent the protagonist from achieving their goals.. These surrogates or henchmen act as gatekeepers, guards, policemen, dogs, wolves, you name it and somehow temporarily get in the way, act as obstacles to prevent your protagonist from getting any further in your story. The idea is your protagonist has to overcome these problems at every step of the way on her journey looking for her mother. These surrogate, henchmen and or antagonist allies appear at various points in your script journey and they get in the way, provide conflict situations. Your protagonist has to find solutions to overcome these situations in your script story.

I can't stress this enough! Your screenplay story is *HOW* your protagonist character deals with conflict. Any conflict. And all conflict stems from the antagonist force. It keeps coming. It is all instigated and comes directly from the antagonist..

If your protagonist character suddenly comes up against an henchman or a group of henchmen, antagonist allies, then they are there at that point of the story because the antagonist force ordered those characters to be there to prevent the protagonist from achieving their goal. To stop them in their tracks. Even if it means killing them! So you pile on the agony for your protagonist character. Force the protagonist in your script story to have to find solutions to overcome these story situations or scenes. Everything that happens to your protagonist character is done by design. It is manipulated and controlled by the antagonist character - even if the antagonist orders his minions to do it or if he does it him or herself!

If you do use surrogate antagonists or henchmen to provide conflict for your protagonist character then make sure we see the antagonist character on the screen instigating that conflict through orders and whatnot. Everything comes from the antagonist so we the audience need to see the antagonist occasionally on the screen. Don't have surrogate antagonists and or henchmen etc, and only to reveal the actual antagonist in the final 3rd act for the final battle. Try and make visual references to the actual antagonist all the way through the script.. You don't have to give equal screen time to an antagonist as much as you do the protagonist, although some screenwriters do. You can be creative with how much screen-time you give your antagonist and how you visually reference your antagonist..

Think about DIE HARD and how many times we see the Bruce Willis character and the conflict situations he has to deal with in the script story and the solutions he derives at in order to remove those obstacles so he can move on, get closer to his goal only to find another obstacle in his path.  Think about HANS GRUBER the leader of the Terrorists who take over the Nakatomi building and how we later discover they are not terrorists at all but simply thieves. Think about how many times we see HANS the cross cutting back and forth between Bruce Willis' character and the HANS character.. One services the other. One decides and instigates the conflict and the other has to deal with it...

An other aspect to your protagonist character you may have neglected or forgot about is your protagonist character must have a character flaw. A flaw which continually gets in her way and prevents her from achieving her goals. Not only does your protagonist character have to deal with conflict instigated by the antagonist character but she has a problem she has been lumbered with and which she has to deal with each and every time she overcomes other problems in the story/script.

Your protagonist character will be required to undergo a *character arc*, to rise above her failings, her faults and her flaws in order to achieve her goal/s and free her mother from the afterlife. The key to any protagonist in any screenplay is what flaw or flaws you assign to your protagonist.

As an example, what if your protagonist didn't love her mother anymore? What if the mother punished her daughter or prevented her doing something. Say the daughter had a boyfriend and she prevented her seeing him? Or she wanted to go to college and the mother said no. Or she wants to become a magician and learn magic and the mother says no because she wants her daughter to go to school/college to gain a good education so she can eventually find a good career? I like the last one a lot because it gives the hero some basic skills which she may not be adept with but she may have practiced some of them at the beginning of the story in act 1. What if her father now divorced from her mother was a magician and now dead, taught the young girl some tricks, illusions and magic only for the mother put a stop to all this because she didn't want her daughter to turn out like her dad continuously out of work or even drunk himself into an early grave.

All this is back history to put flesh onto your protagonist character, the mother and a father and to service a subplot or subplots. Maybe you have some allies in your script story and these could be acquaintances of the father who help the girl, your protagonist character.. I'm thinking of Star Wars here with Luke when he meets the droids who initially relay information about Princess Lia and the fact she has stolen the plans to the Empire's Death Star and to relay this information to an Obi-Wan character. This is not only backstory which propels the story but also brings these characters together, Luke, the Droids and Obi-Wan which in turn reveals important information relating to the major plot and acts as the starting point for the hero Luke to venture on a journey of his life. Luke initially refuses to go but eventually when he does decide to go on this journey he finds more than he bargains for.Luke is far more bound to the characters and history and future of this story than he knows. This is what you need to do with your owns story.. relate the characters to a back story, a back history.. There must be a reason why this antagonist genie kidnaps the hero's mother. Why is this? Did the girl's father steal some magic tricks from the genie? Maybe that's it. But as the father is presumed dead then the only person the genie can think of reeking his revenge on is the wife. Maybe the genie knows that the girl character has magic powers like her father and this is all a ploy, a ruse to trick the girl into the afterlife so he can steal though magic tricks back from the young girl. maybe she is the key to some special powers that the genie wants so he can rule both the underworld, afterlife and maybe even the world?

So now all things are related in a subtext way and not overt so as to be obvious to both your reader and audience. But you start with a premise that the antagonist has kidnapped the mother for a reason and your hero has to undertake a journey to rescue her even though she doesn't love her mother anymore. But the antagonist is banking on family loyalties to lure the daughter into the afterlife, he is using the mother as bait to trick her into revealing how she does certain magic tricks or she can perform such a special magic because he wants that from her.

Make these characters and events linked in some way and you obtain solid and good through-lines. Continuity. This works from how the characters behave, what they say and how they act and react. It also provides the source of conflict required for every beat, scene, sequence and act in your screenplay.


As a side note, why don't you make the genie the father who was thought to be dead? This would provide a rich source of through-lines and subtext for your story and eventual ending. What if your protagonist has developed some magic powers which the father could never master himself and in attempting to master them he became the bad genie and was consigned to oblivion? This would explain why the father became the antagonist. He may have been at one time a loving husband and father but he turned by messing around with the dark forces of magic and in doing so became this evil genie he is today. And the daughter, the protagonist, being gentle, kind and loving has not been corrupted by evil forces but she still has the potential to be a much better magician than he and it is that potential he seeks to steel from her. He is bad, he turned out bad and everything he does is bad all because he was turned from a good magician into an evil genie who wishes to use magic against the good or mankind because maybe he blames mankind for him being turned into the genie in the first place? All these ideas of linking all elements, characters and story and subplots together enhances your story, makes it rich with subtext and through-line potential and will help you focus your ideas into a concrete whole so you can begin with a good solid logline, beat it out in a beatsheet, develop this into an outline all with the view this will assist you when you actually write that screenplay because you will have planned it all out before hand.

So with all that in mind here is an example logline using the examples I have given above:-

LOGLINE

THE GUARDIAN

An evil genie kidnaps a mother then holds her captive in the afterlife which forces a young shy girl with responsibility issues to rescue her before he casts an evil spell on the human race.

You can play around with this, reword it, change the order, change the adverbs, whatever until you end up with a decent logline.

I suggest reworking it until you end up with a solid logline you are happy with..

Start by just writing one variant on the logline about as an exercise.. I'll come back, take a look and comment on it and then maybe offer another logline and then you repeat the process.. We may come to a point when we can combine ideas from each others loglines until we end up with a killer logline..

It doesn't matter if my suggestions here don't conform to your own story but to humor me, try and write your own example based on the ideas I've suggested and see what you can come up with.. My logline is basic and simple but addresses the basic elements required and needed in a logline..

It mentions:-

Who the protagonist is

What is the protagonist goal

What and or who the antagonist force is..

What is also does is leave the logline with a cliffhanger in that it mentions the antagonist's intentions if he is not destroyed. This cliffhanger is a device merely forces the logline reader to want to read more and possibly request to read your completed screenplay.

Have a go at writing a logline based on the ideas above and I'll come back and have a look and make some comments and suggestions..

Hope this helps any...

For now, good luck..


Kevan

Revision History (1 edits)
Kevan R. Craft  -  February 5th, 2012, 11:26am
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 24 - 30
Mr.Ripley
Posted: February 5th, 2012, 11:20am Report to Moderator
January Project Group


Writing

Location
New York
Posts
1979
Posts Per Day
0.31
"An evil genie kidnaps a mother then holds her captive in the afterlife which forces a young shy girl with responsibility issues to rescue her before he casts an evil spell on the human race."

Or

A young shy girl must rescue her mother from an evil genie before he casts an evil spell on the human race.


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
Logged
Site Private Message Reply: 25 - 30
Kevan R. Craft
Posted: February 5th, 2012, 11:42am Report to Moderator
New


Posts
30
Posts Per Day
0.01

Quoted from Mr.Ripley


A young shy girl must rescue her mother from an evil genie before he casts an evil spell on the human race.


That's even better, Mr. Ripley, like it!

The more posted the better as they improve, refine, etc.

My logline was a tad long but I wanted to get across the concept of capturing those 3 essential elements in Christopher Lockhart's "How to Write a Logline"...

Cool..

Keep them coming!



Kevan
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 26 - 30
LKD
Posted: February 5th, 2012, 11:53am Report to Moderator
New


Posts
12
Posts Per Day
0.00
Far far too much to read in a few moments and contemplate properly. I will certainly do so because every bit that I read clicks and makes sense to the plots of so very many movies that are out there. A re-write is decidedly coming from me when I am in the proper environment in a couple weeks.

I do want to note one thing that is important to me above all else. And a lot of the reason that I started this story. I am disappointed that so many female heroes are portrayed like Underworld, or Salt, or Catwoman, et cetera. I really want her to be someone that women can relate to, understand, and identify with. Who could see her tumultuous start and say that, 'I wouldn't do that, but I know someone who did'.

The reason I wish, and bless you for noting this so I understand my intention with the proper verbiage, the second protagonist (who'll definitely be re-writen as a surrogate antagonist) to kill the bad genie is that she has no fighting experience, no reason to be capable of defeating a magical genie who would know very well how to defend himself. I personally am so very bothered when a character suddenly turns out to be an expert because the story needs one at that moment when in reality, they shouldn't be capable of accomplishing that.

And if I write 'I' once more I think the internet will lock me out of this website for 15 minutes.

Very wonderful replies and very helpful in me seeing this to the end. Thank you terribly for you words.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 27 - 30
bert
Posted: February 5th, 2012, 11:57am Report to Moderator
Administrator


Buy the ticket, take the ride

Location
That's me in the corner
Posts
4232
Posts Per Day
0.61
I have just been kind of half-way following along here, but it seems a shame to lose this fine piece of tone-setting:


Quoted from earlier
A young girl in a corrupt city of hedonistic alchemical magic...


So, amend it to read:


Quoted from better?
In a corrupt city of hedonistic magic, a young shy girl must rescue her mother from an evil genie before he casts an evil spell on the human race.


Note that I have dropped "alchemical".  I know what it means, but what does it really mean here, or even add?  Lose it.



Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
Logged
Private Message Reply: 28 - 30
Mr.Ripley
Posted: February 5th, 2012, 12:12pm Report to Moderator
January Project Group


Writing

Location
New York
Posts
1979
Posts Per Day
0.31
No problem. Ever since Babzbuzz (which I suggest people to hear), I've been improving. Glad to be of help.

I would suggest to add irony like she has to overcome her shyness to do this adventure.


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
Logged
Site Private Message Reply: 29 - 30
Kevan R. Craft
Posted: February 5th, 2012, 12:45pm Report to Moderator
New


Posts
30
Posts Per Day
0.01

Quoted from LKD
Far far too much to read in a few moments and contemplate properly. I will certainly do so because every bit that I read clicks and makes sense to the plots of so very many movies that are out there. A re-write is decidedly coming from me when I am in the proper environment in a couple weeks.



Good, glad my suggestions made sense and inspired you toward your upcoming rewrite..


Quoted from LKD

I do want to note one thing that is important to me above all else. And a lot of the reason that I started this story. I am disappointed that so many female heroes are portrayed like Underworld, or Salt, or Catwoman, et cetera. I really want her to be someone that women can relate to, understand, and identify with. Who could see her tumultuous start and say that, 'I wouldn't do that, but I know someone who did'.


Try not to impose your own agenda onto your script because of how you think women are portrayed. Just write the screenplay..


Quoted from LKD

The reason I wish, and bless you for noting this so I understand my intention with the proper verbiage, the second protagonist (who'll definitely be re-writen as a surrogate antagonist) to kill the bad genie is that she has no fighting experience, no reason to be capable of defeating a magical genie who would know very well how to defend himself. I personally am so very bothered when a character suddenly turns out to be an expert because the story needs one at that moment when in reality, they shouldn't be capable of accomplishing that.


Unless you are an experienced screenwriter where you can grapple with multiple protagonists and antagonists be mindful that using such devices can confuse an audience and indeed a script reader. Keep it simple is always the best policy.. The main thing you are after is to write a screenplay one which can be read within the industry and be used as a writing sample.. You want that sample to illustrate you can write a screenplay with all the basic conventions  and that you as a screenwriter understand those basic conventions before you start to break them. Don't get me wrong, a lot of screenplays and movies now use surrogate and shifting antagonists, it displays a deeper understanding and manipulation of story craft which at the same time stops relying on tried and tested cliches because movie audiences are starting to figure out what comes next or who the bad guy is and that in itself can be cliche so this is why some screenwriters and movie makers have decided to move away from the standard principles of a single protagonist and single antagonist plus it makes for a richer plot and story, especially when these aspects of characters and subplots are revealed to an audience.  But beware you don't get lost or confuse yourself in constructing a screenplay using such complicated devices..

I wouldn't have a surrogate protagonist because this is a "no no" in story-telling,.. These are called "allies".. You can have a surrogate antagonist or shape-shifter or tricksters who at first reads as a bad guy only to become an ally of the protagonist. But to have a surrogate protagonist means you are splitting important aspects of the plot which should be dictated by a single protagonist.

You can have multiple protagonists if you have multiple story lines and each has their own battle with their own antagonist but to force a surrogate protagonist into the final battle to defeat the antagonist means you are not only robbing your true protagonist of this (which it should be her doing this to achieve her character arc in the story) but also you will be cheating your audience who expect the protagonist herself to defeat the antagonist in any final battle you construct. That is the very essence of a screenplay story where you finally pair off the protagonist with the antagonist.

You obviously have your own reasons for wanting to use a surrogate protagonist but I would suggest this will be a major flaw in your script story and probably one which will cause Hollywood Studios a reason to reject or say "no" to optioning your script.

Think of it like this.. Say your script is optioned and the director casts Kate Beckinsale as the young girl your protagonist? *Imagine what she would say when she read the script and discovered another character defeated the antagonist. The actors/actresses who play the protagonist characters tend to be A List actors and they don't want another character stealing scenes or the ending or the limelight from them. Heroes win battles not surrogate protagonists. It *MUST* always be the hero.  Check out any story through time, in history, myth, novels, poetry and screenplays, it is *ALWAYS* the *HERO*..


Quoted from LKD

Very wonderful replies and very helpful in me seeing this to the end. Thank you terribly for you words.


No problem.. If any of this helps you then that's what it is all about, you learning something from the exercise to help you become a better screenwriter..

Keep working on those loglines because your next step is producing a beatsheet based on Blake Snyder's Save the Cat method..


Kevan
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 30 - 30
 Pages: 1, 2, 3 : All
Recommend Print

Locked Board Board Index    Screenwriting Class  [ previous | next ] Switch to:
Was Portal Recent Posts Home Help Calendar Search Register Login

Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post polls
You may not post attachments
HTML is on
Blah Code is on
Smilies are on


Powered by E-Blah Platinum 9.71B © 2001-2006