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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  Freedom of Screenwriting (Save the dog!) Moderators: George Willson
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  Author    Freedom of Screenwriting (Save the dog!)  (currently 3951 views)
coldbug
Posted: April 14th, 2013, 6:40pm Report to Moderator
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I am an amateur screen writer.  Very much amateur.  I think not even grade 4 on 1 to 10 scale point.  To improve my skills, I must keep on writing.  Not easy as it sounds. Something is restricting me.  I found out what it is.  Unaligned rules and laws of screen writing.
  Save the dog is a complete freestyle writing..that's what I call it.  I have noticed that I write more if I ignore the rules and just write like a maniac.  Once I stop and wonder if my scene really followed the rules, I lose concentration.  Really annoying.
  Who really says what is right and what is wrong?  Even the producer has no set of rules he will follow when he sees the magical script he wants.  If he likes it and thinks it's marketable, who cares if I used "We" in the script as camera angle.  He will buy it regardless of your writing style.  
   People say...oh you can't do this..you can't do that...they can say whatever they want...at the end...your script will be completely rewritten after purchased...no matter how much you listened to those people and how much you perfected on it.
   So, why waste your time listen to someone criticizing your work and he has never wrote a produced script.  Maybe, he will become a good critic one day but not a writer.
   Don't get me wrong.  There are some brilliant ideas and help from people who knows what they are talking about, but you must ignore the rest.
   It's a good idea to just write and ignore everything...i mean everything....and rewrite later with better editing methods.   Your ideas are way too much valuable to waste and should not be blocked by some rules.  
    Take minimal opinions from anyone, put maximum load and save the dog!  Good luck!


A lie has traveled around the world while the truth is putting the shoes on.
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Forgive
Posted: April 14th, 2013, 7:09pm Report to Moderator
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Hey coldbug. There's a couple of things you're missing here:

1. You can always write what you want. nobody's stopping you.

2. I always go for writing off the top of my head - initially, and then find some structure afterwards, but it's each to his own.

3. You might not be read by a producer, but a reader.

4. You're correct ... your script will be re-written. But if the re-writer's going to be paid, will it be you?


Quoted from coldbug
   It's a good idea to just write and ignore everything...


it's not.
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KAlbers
Posted: April 14th, 2013, 7:16pm Report to Moderator
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Hey coldbug,

I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle... this may sound as cliche as any writing tip, but don't look at them as RULES but more as guidelines... there is a reason why some things work and others don't... in the case of the "we" thing, it's redundant to say it (hey, I've done this too in the past) but I have to agree its a waste of space writing "we see..." just write what we see. Anyway I'm sure this "rule" is not what's really preventing you from writing a good story, but I think it important to note; who are you writing for? Other people or just for your self?... as for me, I want people to read my stories, and I don't want them to get all caught up with poor grammar, poor spelling, poor formatting... chances are the majority of regular people you give a script to won't even know the "rules" of script writing... but regardless, I personally don't want anyone to get thrown from the story... and you know what?, there are no hard-fast rules in screenwriting, only people who have been doing it with success and for long enough that they've passed on what seems to work best on the whole, and hey make additional cash selling books. I've never read "Save the Cat" so don't quite catch the "Save the Dog" reference but I take it you seem to be the underdog. It seems you are getting too caught up with what others on here will nag on you for that you can't concentrate on the story (i could very well be wrong of course)... but if that's the case then yeah man, forget all the rules just lay it out there. I think someone phrased this as a "vomit" draft... oh it'll be messy, but I still think before you have guest over for dinner, it's a good idea to clean up that mess, with the tools that are best for the job... I hope you continue to write and for Pete's sake enjoy doing it! And that's just my thought on your thought.

Best,
Kev



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KAlbers  -  April 14th, 2013, 10:43pm
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dogglebe
Posted: April 14th, 2013, 7:35pm Report to Moderator
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No one can make you write to the industry format.  Design your own rules and do what's most comfortable for you...  But don't complain when people don't read your scripts or when the only comments they leave are, "your formatting is off."

There's a reason why there are rules to formatting.  It makes it easier to read the script if you know where the dialogue, the action, the transition, etc.  are located.  And easier reading is faster reading.

There's always someone on the board who insists on writing things his/her own way.  They generally don't stay too long because they don't get the reads that they thought they'd get.

Good luck with it.


Phil

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KAlbers  -  March 7th, 2014, 4:21pm
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M.Alexander
Posted: April 14th, 2013, 7:50pm Report to Moderator
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Heck with the dog, save the cat.

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crookedowl
Posted: April 14th, 2013, 8:14pm Report to Moderator
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I'm not a "Save the Cat" fan by any means. I think you can write a good story without worrying about the rules. But if you're a new writer, chances are you'll run into a lot of problems, and using things like Save the Cat can help you identify and solve issues you would normally miss.

Having trouble making your protagonist likable? Maybe you should throw in a Save the Cat moment. Is your second act boring? Think about rising action and the midpoint. Don't worry about them when you're writing-- write however the hell you want. But if you can't fix a problem, the rules might actually help.

And I'm always annoyed by "don't listen to this guy's review! He isn't a pro screenwriter!". Why even post a script in the first place, then? You don't have to the Oliver Stone to know a script is shit.

Will
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James McClung
Posted: April 14th, 2013, 8:46pm Report to Moderator
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Pretty sure living in a bubble, free from any outside perspective whatsoever, is the worst way to go about doing anything, let alone screenwriting.

Also, doing something in excess doesn't have merit in and of itself; usually, it's the opposite.

Finally, save the dog is pretty much the exact same mantra as save the cat. If you really wanted to go the other way, it'd be kill the cat.


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mcornetto
Posted: April 14th, 2013, 9:09pm Report to Moderator
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Personally, I think you should just tell the story in your own way and not worry about screenwriting books.  Read some other scripts instead.  

Each of us has a structure within us and that's what gives us our unique voice.   Develop that and if that doesn't work for the number of people you want it to work for then tweak your style using what you learn from books.   You should, however, develop your own voice first.

If you plan on marketing your scripts in Hollywood then my advice would change slightly to encourage you to follow Save the Cat above all else.  Any other market, it doesn't matter as much but in Hollywood it's of utmost importance.          

No matter what, I do think your script should look like a script, so please follow the industry standard for your script's format.  
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dogglebe
Posted: April 14th, 2013, 9:11pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from coldbug
So, why waste your time listen to someone criticizing your work and he has never wrote a produced script.


Actually, a number of us have been produced.  But if you're not going to listen to anyone, then why come here in the first place?

When VA was posting his poorly-written nonsense on the boards.  He wouldn't listen to anyone's comments unless they were positive.  His argument was that we didn't know screenwriting because we weren't produced by Speilberg or Tarantino.

You can have the best story in the world, but if you follow your own formatting techniques, you won't find too many people reading it.  Formatting guidelines evolved over the last century.  A newbie writer is not going to change that.

And referring to it as save the dog is just silly.  It means nothing.  There was someone here last year who, like you, preferred to do everything his own way.  He compared his way of screenwriting to making a hamburger.  After a while, he realized no one was going to read his scripts and he left.


Phil

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KAlbers  -  April 14th, 2013, 9:31pm
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danbotha
Posted: April 14th, 2013, 11:36pm Report to Moderator
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Personally, I don't think that a screenwriting board is the place to tell people that what they've been doing for their entire screenwriting lives shouldn't be the way things are done because it doesn't suite the writers who can't accept formatting "rules". It's never going to go down well.

I've seen a few writers who have chimed in with some of the traditional arguments against formatting...

- It's a free world!
- Tarantino does it!
- You're not a pro, so sod off!
- You've never had anything produced!

All of these arguments are invalid when it comes down to the important matter at hand. If it doesn't smell, taste or look like a screenplay, then it's not a screenplay. Formatting a screenplay correctly is important. End of story. But, you can possible get away with not being a particularly good writer. Don't get formatting and writing confused. In a lot of respects they're completely different.

I'll give you a quick anecdote. Recently I landed a small time gig (not paid) with a film producer in America. Thinking that he was looking for stories more than correct formatting, I read one of the synopsis' I received. The idea was brilliant, so I asked for a completed screenplay. When I got the screenplay I realised it was a complete shambles. Unsure of what to do I sent it through to the producer, anyway. His response? "What is this bullshit?" He didn't even open the script, because he could see that the formatting was way off.

You say that you should be allowed to write the way you choose. As others have pointed out, no one's stopping you, so why the rant on the boards? What have you achieved?

I've been here just over a year and I've seen many screenwriting "rebels" come through who refuse to write according to the industry standard. It's never gotten anyone anywhere. Not having correct formatting is almost like writing a novel with no punctuation, no paragraphs and no sense of structure. People won't read it.

I'm sorry, Coldbug... You have every right to write the way you wish. No one's stopping you. Just like I have every right to write a novel with a lack of punctuation and poor sentence structure. However, to sit here and tell members of a screenwriting board that the way they do things shouldn't be the norm doesn't and won't make sense to the majority of us. It's the accepted way of doing things because it's easy on the eye. I was caught by some irony in your original statement which made me giggle:


Quoted from coldbug
Who really says what is right and what is wrong?


None of us do. But isn't that what this thread was started for? To tell us we're all wrong??

Dan


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crookedowl
Posted: April 15th, 2013, 2:14am Report to Moderator
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I'm confused... is coldbug talking about basic formatting (page margins, grammar, which things to capitalize) or "rules" of screenwriting like three-act structure and the inciting incident and midpoints?
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danbotha
Posted: April 15th, 2013, 3:30am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from crookedowl
I'm confused... is coldbug talking about basic formatting (page margins, grammar, which things to capitalize) or "rules" of screenwriting like three-act structure and the inciting incident and midpoints?


It seems like he's talking about both...


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mcornetto
Posted: April 15th, 2013, 3:49am Report to Moderator
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I thought he was talking about both.
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trickyb
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Hey cold,

Not sure I agree with most of what you have written, but you've stated not to listen to criticism so I'm not going into detail.

On the format and look of a screenplay you need to look at it like a job interview, you would'nt turn up to a job you want looking like a bag of shit, a screenplay is the same, the way it looks is your first impression and it shows you have done some research into the field.

Michael


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jwent6688
Posted: April 15th, 2013, 8:36am Report to Moderator
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Of all the stupid threads I've seen, this may be the stupidity climax. Cold, did your feet freeze when your heater let out or your brain too?

Write what you want, bro. You came here to stir up a discussion and are nowhere to be found. Haven't read anything by you, but if you want to tell a good story... There's lots to be learned by the books you ridicule.

Jamestown


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