Quoted from EWall433 And isn’t that the dream when we’re editing? To cut a couple pages from our script while changing essentially nothing?

Why would that be a dream?

I don't edit to cut pages. I edit to make my story read better.

Your example is unnecessarily directing the actors, therefore adding lines. During a card game, a line of action or parenthetical suggesting an actor looks at their cards is a little silly. Provide a better example and you might convince me.

Quoted from Dustin I don't edit to cut pages. I edit to make my story read better.

Obviously. But more often than not, writers write too much, and improve by editing out and condensing rather than adding and expanding. Not everyone has the same concerns, but I’d venture to guess that a majority of screenwriters who come up with 135 page first draft go on to thinking, “I’ve got to cut fifteen pages.” I also believe most seek to take little nips out of their screenplay (through shortening and combining line description) before continuing on to the much harder task of eliminating or combining whole scenes.

Quoted from Dustin Your example is unnecessarily directing the actors, therefore adding lines. During a card game, a line of action or parenthetical suggesting an actor looks at their cards is a little silly.

I’m not sure I get this. You would prefer me to have Dean raising without throwing coins into the pot? How is the physical act of actually putting the money in the pot an unnecessary direction. In the same vein, why would I have Keith assume he’s beat without looking at his cards? Are you saying these actions should be assumed without the writer indicating them? That the writer should only indicate when these actions aren't happening? I think it’s a dangerous game for a writer to start assuming what a reader will assume from words not on the page. One could easily change the scene to this:

Code DEAN: Raise. KEITH: Son of a bitch. Keith folds. Dean collects. KEITH: Wait, you were out of chips, asshole. DEAN: Too late. You folded.

Dean doesn’t really have to say “raise” either. He could just toss the coins in. In addition, tossing your bet in is different than pushing it in, is different than placing it in. And checking your cards in mid-play indicates a different skill set than remembering your hand. Sure actors can object to anything. But to put it simply, Dean is bluffing and Keith is too inexperienced to call him out. That’s character on the page. I don’t think it’s necessary to delete subtle character moments just because some as yet undetermined actor may have a problem with some minutiae.

Everyone has something different that ticks their annoyance meter. For the most part it’s impossible to account for (unless you know in advance who your specific reader will be). But one of the things that seems to annoy most readers is a bloated, repetitive read. Both of which are more apparent (however slightly) in the second example. At least, in my opinion.

Both of your examples are action lines. Simply switched to parenthesis. They don't actually belong in parenthesis. The second one, doesn't even deserve an action line.

This is how I'd write the same thing:

Code Dean confidently throws in his stake. Dean: Raise. Keith: Son of a b****.

They're called action wrylies, and they are "acceptable", but I have to say I'm with Dustin in that they really shouldn't be used, other than very, VERY rarely.

The thing is there are 1,000's of ways to save a line or a space.  Using action wrylies isn't really a very good one to look for, IMO.

Wrylies are irritating for the most part.  Thye disrupt the flow of a read and because they're centered and only contain a few words at most, you'll find that in more cases than not, you'll have to really think about how to fit them on 1 line (action wrylies, that is).

Everyone can do as they please, obviously, but I'll say it again, using wrylies is not recommended on a regular basis.

I don't find moderate use of wrylies irritating at all. I think they sometimes really help a scene. Five - six (sad), (curious) pre script are fine in my opinion. Just don't go overboard.  Action wrylies save space, so I like them as well sparsely used.

Everyone has different preferences, find what works for you.

OK, let's talk about feature Spec scripts - 90 - 110 pages.

Just curious, but how many wrylies do you consider to be "moderate"?  How many is going overboard?

Quoted from Dreamscale OK, let's talk about feature Spec scripts - 90 - 110 pages. Just curious, but how many wrylies do you consider to be "moderate"?  How many is going overboard?

Everything over seven is too much.

OK, cool...so you understand we're talking about 1 per 11 - 15 pages, right?

So, my point again, is...seriously...sparing...sparingly...not alot...very little...only when it's necesary, or when you think it is when you're writing your masterpiece.

Bottom line again...don't use them as a way fo saving lines, don't use them more than a few times per feature length script.  Love life and your fellow human Beeings.  Believe in love at first sight.  And  most importantly, believe in what you write and write that way because you believe in it.

Word out...to all the Fathers and to all the sons and to all the daughters.

Quoted from DustinBowcot The second one, doesn't even deserve an action line.

I feel like I already addressed that...

Quoted from Me …why would I have Keith assume he’s beat without looking at his cards?...checking your cards in mid-play indicates a different skill set than remembering your hand.

But I’ll add, what if Keith bet blind the first round, meaning he didn’t look at his cards? To have him fold on Dean’s raise, without ever indicating he looked at his cards, is to take a brazen character and change him into a moron. There are reasons for that line to be there. To cut it out of context is to defeat the objective, which is to save lines without deleting information. I’ll admit though, that there is this:

Code DEAN: Raise. Dean tosses his coins in the pot. Keith checks his cards. KEITH: Son of a bitch.

Now this doesn’t quite beat out the way I prefer for the example I choose. But it works well and it saves the space. So I’ll move on to something more egregious:

Code MARK: What do you want me to do? VERNE: What else can we do? (sighs) Run the damn Bieber story.

VS:

Code MARK: What do you want me to do? VERNE: What else can we do? Verne sighs. VERNE: Run the damn Bieber story.

The count there is 7 to 10. That’s three lines saved from one parenthetical. Does taking up three lines for Verne's sigh really “flow better”? I just don’t see how forcing my eyes to travel three wasted spaces leads to a better flow than quickly glancing over a single word on the way to the next line.

And yes, I think the ‘sigh’ is needed. It’s basically a punch line and punches require beats. In that beat Verne also gets to express how he feels about “running the damn Bieber story”. So in my mind it does two things, not zero. In fact, I think Verne’s “What else can we do?” line is more disposable than the sigh.

Quoted from Demento Everything over seven is too much.

No offense intended, but I wasn’t sure if that was a joke. 700 lines of dialogue is not an unreasonable estimate for a feature. That basically translates to anything over 1% of your dialogue being too much. If your gonna pare it down to 1%, it would be more consistent to eliminate all of them. So just do that.

40 parentheticals would still be only about 6%. I’d say over 10% and you might want to double check yourself. But don’t forget, (filtered, radio) is a parenthetical as well. If you write a story with a lot of foreign languages on walkie-talkies you could easily crack 10% on what many would consider to be required parentheticals.

It bears repeating, I'm merely explaining the logic by which I use parentheticals. I don't 'knock points off' a read for seeing something different.

Quoted from Dreamscale Word out...to all the Fathers and to all the sons and to all the daughters.

Have you been going to that gospel church again?

R

Quoted from EWall433 No offense intended, but I wasn’t sure if that was a joke.

Of course it was a joke.

Quoted from EWall433 I feel like I already addressed that...

All you wrote was that he looks at his cards, you didn't mention where the cards were. I didn't know what game they were playing. I now take it that you are imagining them playing poker... the type where cards are laid out face down on the table? I don't gamble. At all. I don't even play the lottery. I imagined the cards being in his hands, so it would have been natural for an actor to intermittently look at their cards anyway.

Quoted from EWall433 Now this doesn’t quite beat out the way I prefer for the example I choose. But it works well and it saves the space.

It's not about saving space, it's about telling a story well. If that means you use more words to help with flow then so be it.

Quoted from EWall433 The count there is 7 to 10. That’s three lines saved from one parenthetical. Does taking up three lines for Verne's sigh really “flow better”?

That depends upon how you want it to flow. In your first example the sigh happens quickly. In the second, it happens much slower. That's flow. You may want the sigh to come in fast, use a parenthetical, if there's a longer beat between pause and dialogue then use an action line. It is all about flow.

Quoted from EWall433 I just don’t see how forcing my eyes to travel three wasted spaces leads to a better flow than quickly glancing over a single word on the way to the next line.

Forcing your eyes? Most words and even sentences are read instantaneously by our brains, it doesn't take any effort. It's not how the words are positioned that makes a story flow, it is the way the writer writes it.

Quoted from EWall433 If your gonna pare it down to 1%, it would be more consistent to eliminate all of them. So just do that.

It isn't about consistency either. It is about telling a story well... that is all.

Personally, I only add the parenthicals for the reader's needs.  I already know how they speak, more visual readers will also know after witnessing the scene unfold.  In truth, I'd not use them at all if I was absolutely, 100% certain that anyone who reads my story can fully understand the emotive state of the characters during a scene.

I never used to use them at all.  I use them sometimes now to help people grasp the concept of a scene.

I do it with action lines sometimes, if the character is speaking, for example, and is doing something at the same time, I add a little parenthical to show what he/she does in that exact moment to save me doing this:

Quoted Text Shane I want a cookie. Shane takes a cookie Shane I love me cookies.

Now it's more like this:

Quoted Text Shane I want a cookie (takes cookie) I love me cookies.

Saves what... a line, two lines?  Big deal in truth.  

Someone else gave an example of what their scene was, during a poker game, when it comes to poker/card games, I often avoid using action lines.  I just say whatever they're doing in their dialogue section to save even more space.

Don't have to do it this way, but it helps bring the page count down.  I remember years ago I'd convey emotion with action lines, probably the reason most of my scripts came in at OVER 120 pages.  Now, most of them barely hit 90 and the only ones that go over 90 are epics, but only by 10 - 15 pages due to plot threads.

I guess, my point here, is only use parenthicals when absolutely needed or use them to bring your page count down by conveying action and emotion within dialogue sections to avoid overcrowding your script with unneeded action lines.

-Lee

Shaving pages while still keeping the exact same substance of the story does nothing to shorten the actual story itself. Merely the page count changes. Why are people so hung up on page count?

Quoted Text I remember years ago I'd convey emotion with action lines, probably the reason most of my scripts came in at OVER 120 pages.  Now, most of them barely hit 90 and the only ones that go over 90 are epics, but only by 10 - 15 pages due to plot threads.

Right... so you're actually suggesting here that you can save 30 pages by using this technique. I've read one or two of your scripts and don't remember you using parentheses equal to 30 pages worth of savings.