Okay, this one's for Dan C. who made mention in another thread:

Libby, sometimes, the good guy dies (you know what I mean) He should have added a wink but no matter, it was implied.

It did make me think however...

So, here a few of my favs where the good guy dies.

Leon
Heat
Braveheart

The 'why' is the key though. Why do we accept/even revel sometimes, in the hero's demise.

What are the elements that make a story/movie a success and a joy to watch when ultimately our hero dies? Obviously sacrifice is one thing, but what else?

the good guy does not die in Heat.


Hero dies... i dont know if youd call these great ones... but these are examples.

Quarantine
Alien 3
300
blair witch
the departed
Glory


as far as the why it makes them successful? sometimes it doesnt... it depends... sometimes its about a blaze of glory... sometimes its no-win/no-way-out... sometimes it's just badass if the bad guy wins.


it just depends on what the story calls for.
in this era of Superhero movies...people generally only want happy endings... they want everything tied up with a nice pretty bow on top... they want the hero riding off into the sunset....


pfftt

Quoted from Penoyer79 the good guy does not die in Heat.

That's your opinion.  

It's all a bit fuzzy with the good and the bad characters in The Departed too. Love that film.

Psycho?

Marion Crane. The whole movie up until the shower scene was set with her as the protagonist. Then BAM! Stabbed.

That's the thing, Libby. You can't say Hero and Protagonist together, as if they're the same thing.

Both Dawn of the Deads ('78 depends on the ending).
The Thing ('82).
The Matrix Revolutions.
Children of Men.
Saving Private Ryan.
The Devil's Rejects (same result if you were rooting for William Forsythe or the Fireflys).
The Prestige (Hugh Jackman was the protagonist, but he certainly wasn't the hero. Great movie).
Cloverfield (assumed).
Cool Hand Luke.
The Shining (see: The Prestige).
American Beauty.
Donnie Darko.
Reservoir Dogs (unless you consider Mr. Pink the protagonist).

Good point, Sean, perhaps I should have just said 'main character' and you're right, they're not one and the same.

The main point I was trying to get at and I should have voiced it with much more clarity than I did is when do these movie deaths work and when do they not - in the examples you might give.

In Braveheart for example William Wallace sacrifices his life - to free Scotland from English rule. Pretty straight forward plot and we buy his devotion to the cause.

Some deaths in movies however don't make sense at all. I don't think a character should be killed off for the sake of a stunning horror visual or for shock value alone (which is what I was going to elaborate on to Dan) and I don't think a death should be thrown in just to avoid another boring Hollywood happy ending etc.

So, I suppose examples of where it worked and where it didn't work is more to the point of what I was interested in.

Simply put, did the end justify the means.

I think, for the most part, they kill them off for about five reasons. To show (from their point of view) that good doesn't conquer evil, that a savior (to become a savior) has to die, to show that the bad guys aren't actually the bad guys (typical of crime movies), because the obstacles are too strong or because of, as you said, shock value.

Libby, I agree your 2nd question is a far better topic to discuss. There's too many films out there that will kill off a protagonist when the theme doesn't warrant it.

Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Birdman have similar endings, where both protagonists' most likely outcomes were suicide, but favored thematic revelation after the act was implied. Those moments are way more memorable to me than just killing someone off.

Here are some of the top of my head:

The Killer and Hard Boiled
Gladiator
The Wicker Man
American Beauty
Falling Down
Twelve Monkeys
V For Vendetta
Cool Hand Luke
Easy Rider
Jacob's Ladder (I guess)
Million Dollar Baby
Terminator 2
Get Carter
Fallen
Arlington Road

The Sound of Music.

Shawn.....><

All good examples.

Tarantino does this well. Or at least he did in his early days. Before he carried with himself. I never do that. I think reading my recent posts will prove I always stick to the point, never the plank, and I always know where my trousers are. Even when I'm no longer wearing them.

Resevoir Dogs killed both protagonists. Quite rightly in its case.

Pulp Fiction killed Vic. And then had its cake and ate it by dipping back in time and have him walk out of the restaurant. A conceit few films manage to pull off. He did well there.

My favourite is the Matrix. Surely one of the best deaths and resurrections yet commited to film. Neo dies and yet gets up and manages to ruin his antagonist. With style too. I remember watching this sequence for the first time. It's still one of the best film endings I've ever seen. Enough said.

R

Johnny I agree with you agreeing.   Seems I confused myself in the process of mulling things over.

Good point about Birdman, I'm glad they chose the route they did... even if I did find it exhausting to watch.

I remember watching Alien for the first time and being blown away by the all the characters dropping off the peg one by one - the harsh realism was a little hard to take but a cinematic revelation of sorts too - I was used to happy endings. Thank God they elected to save Ripley and the cat.

I think there's still something to be said for leaving an audience satisfied and some cinematic deaths of late do have a 'jump the shark' aspect to them imh. (Drive - Ryan Gosling) - huh? When it comes down to it, movies are not real life.  

Open Water pissed me off enormously too - I was invested in those characters all the way through, them clinging on to one another for hours, days, sea-sickness etc. etc. Still, who cares about satisfying your audience when the film cost $130,000 to make and went on to gross $55 million worldwide, right? I must have been the only one who hated that ending. But speaking of sharks which film did you enjoy most, Open Water, or Jaws? Robert Shaw might have become lunch but Roy Sheider's character survived - yippee, and he's forced to confront his fear of the water.

Demento, yep, some great examples. So, did you buy all of those unfortunate demises? When I watched Million Dollar Baby, I wanted to throw something at the screen. I can however buy that storyline more so than some others.

The ending of American Beauty always works for me.

Quoted from Ledbetter The Sound of Music.

Oh, I gotta laugh!

I thought they escaped...

Quoted from oJOHNNYoNUTSo Birdman... where both protagonists' most likely outcomes were suicide, but favored thematic revelation after the act was implied.

He didn't die... Didn't you notice that whole thing where she looked down and was confused? That is actually one of the issues with it is that it basically proved that the superpowers weren't just in his head. He absolutely should have died, but it should have happened in the theatre and neglected the final sequence.

Quoted from Mr. Blonde He didn't die... Didn't you notice that whole thing where she looked down and was confused? That is actually one of the issues with it is that it basically proved that the superpowers weren't just in his head. He absolutely should have died, but it should have happened in the theatre and neglected the final sequence.

Sure, I guess the way I worded that was unclear. The outcome could've been death but instead it wasn't... at least in visual context.