I'm doing a re-write on a script of mine, it's a set in library.

The slugs go something like...

Quoted Text FADE IN: INT. COLLEGE - LIBRARY - DAY Scene description ect. People make their way toward the --   STUDY AREA -- where they ect. AT THE FRONT ENTRANCE Random old lady sits behind a desk. Dude enters FADE OUT:

I decided to ditch the FULL SLUGS for the MINIS, because I think things become less "broken up" with them.

I assume it's acceptable to use a FULL SLUG to refer to them later on , because later in the script I start up in a specific location (STUDY AREA), within the library, from a FADE IN:

And I assume I'd have to switch to FULL SLUGS if there is a time gap between the specific areas.

For example:

Quoted Text FADE IN: INT. COLLEGE - LIBRARY - STUDY AREA - DAY Shit happens. FADE OUT: FADE IN: <--- TRANSITION TO SIGNIFY TIME PASSING. INT. COLLEGE - LIBRARY - ENTRANCE - DAY Shit happens later.

...but that doesn't seem right somehow.

Would you consider this an inconsistent approach?

My location is built like this:

LIBRARY - MASTER SETTING
STUDY AREA - SUB LO.
ENTRANCE - SUB LO.

Can I have a full slug which includes a SUB LO, and move to another SUB LO within the scene, using a mini?

Example:

Quoted Text INT. LIBRARY - STUDY - DAY Shit occurs.  Oh well. AT THE FRONT ENTRANCE

Or is that incorrect?

God, I'm kind of explaining the situation messily here.

Basically..

MINI-SLUGS lack the time element, and there's a time gap between two specific areas in the library later on, and I'm not sure if I can express that with mini-slugs.

So would it be best to go back to full slugs for everything, or use a mixture of both?

And the other problem was, can I use a mini-slug to go from sub-location to sub-location, if one of the sub-locations is included in the scene header?

Fuck, maybe I'm over-thinking things but I want to get some consistency here.

Hi Max - just having a look at this--

Mini-slugs are fine if you are in a different area within the same location, so your fist bit is fine.

Your hybrid slug is fine where it does not  confuse.

Your last question is a bit confusing -- you're setting the entire piece in a library? That's implied earlier on, so your mini wouldn't be wrong, but your full would-- if your are going for mini's why then go for a full slug? Is the library open plan? Be clear and consistent, I think that the more important thing.

Quoted from Forgive Hi Max - just having a look at this-- Mini-slugs are fine if you are in a different area within the same location, so your fist bit is fine. Your hybrid slug is fine where it does not  confuse. Your last question is a bit confusing -- you're setting the entire piece in a library? That's implied earlier on, so your mini wouldn't be wrong, but your full would-- if your are going for mini's why then go for a full slug? Is the library open plan? Be clear and consistent, I think that the more important thing.

Yeah, I'm confusing myself.

Basically, I have a number of scenes which take place within a LIBRARY (this is my MASTER SETTING)... and the slug which I give it is...

INT. COLLEGE LIBRARY - DAY

Beneath that, I've used MINI-SLUGS...

STUDY AREA

AT THE FRONT ENTRANCE

ect.

Later on in the script I FADE OUT:, and then I FADE IN:

And the SLUG following that transition is...

INT. COLLEGE LIBRARY - STUDY AREA - DAY

Now one of the sub-locations is apart of the SCENE HEADER, as opposed to it being a MINI-SLUG like earlier.  Is it okay to do that?  I can't follow a FADE IN: with a MINI, so I don't really have any other choice here.

The scene starts in the STUDY AREA, right? But my next scene occurs LATER, at the FRONT ENTRANCE.  I can't use a MINI because MINI's have no time element, and I'm not sure if I can use a FRONT ENTRANCE mini under the STUDY AREA scene header anyway so...

So would I have to use a FULL SLUG again? Or could I just write...

Quoted Text INT. COLLEGE - STUDY AREA - DAY Shit happens.  People die.  Oh well. AT THE FRONT ENTRANCE - LATER

Or is that not CORRECT? To have a hybrid mini with a time element.

I'm guessing it would be better to do...

INT. COLLEGE LIBRARY - STUDY AREA - AFTERNOON

Shit happens.

FADE TO BLACK:

FADE IN:

INT. COLLEGE LIBRARY - FRONT ENTRANCE - (LATER)


I would do it like that, providing it's acceptable to include a sub-location in a scene header, a location which you previously used a mini for.

Max, I think the thing that's fucking with you is the passing of time in the same setting...and the FADE OUTs and FADE INs, again, in the same setting.

Sometimes, this works...and even works well, but more often than not, it doesn't work well, and doesn't look good in a filmed version....as in it's often tough to "see" the passing of time when you don't change locales.

So, the simple question is - can you go to a different setting and then back to the same setting, which will make the passing time more apparent?

As to the Full and Mini Slugs, off the top of my head, just quickly looking at what you showed as examples, I think you're OK.  Just be consistent, and as others said, be clear.

Hope this helps.

Quoted from Dreamscale Max, I think the theing that's fucking with you is the passing of time in the same setting...and the FADE OUTs and FADE INs, again, in the same setting. Sometimes, this works...and even works well, but more often than not, it doesn't work well, and doesn't look good in a filmed version....as in it's often tough to "see" the passing of time when you don't change locales. So, the simple question is - can you go to a different setting and then back to the same setting, which will make the passing time more apparent? As to the Full and Mini Slugs, off the top of my head, just quickly looking at what you showed as examples, I think you're OK.  Just be consistent, and as others said, be clear. Hope this helps.

Yeah, it's the time thingy most likely.

My short will be up soon anyways, once the lock on submissions has lifted, just fiddling out the details, ya know.

I'll watch some tennis tommorow and work it on then, lol.

Quoted from Dreamscale Max, I think the theing that's fucking with you is the passing of time in the same setting...and the FADE OUTs and FADE INs, again, in the same setting. Sometimes, this works...and even works well, but more often than not, it doesn't work well, and doesn't look good in a filmed version....as in it's often tough to "see" the passing of time when you don't change locales. So, the simple question is - can you go to a different setting and then back to the same setting, which will make the passing time more apparent? As to the Full and Mini Slugs, off the top of my head, just quickly looking at what you showed as examples, I think you're OK.  Just be consistent, and as others said, be clear. Hope this helps.

Yeah, I dunno

Some people may think that if you use..

INT. LIBRARY - STUDY AREA - DAY

...as a slug, then using mini's of different sub locations underneath ain't correct... because they might say "Your scene header says STUDY AREA... but now we're at the entrance with a mini-slug"

I'm sure that's correct though, because it's a sub-location, so a mini slug is appropriate.... even if another sub-location is included in the full scene header.

If there's a change of time between the scenes in different areas, I figure mini's ain't the best way because it's assumed everything is continuous with them.

But yeah, can you use a sub-location mini... under a full slug... which includes another sub-lo?

Quoted from Max But yeah, can you use a sub-location mini... under a full slug... which includes another sub-lo?

No. For yea shalt not confuse, but readily clarify.

INT. LIBRARY- DAY

Exciting things occurring...

                            FADE TO BLACK:

                            FADE IN:

LIBRARY ENTRANCE

More fun...

...may not be to everyone's taste, but is quite clear.

If you use that method, there is no need for 'LATER' as this has already been suggested. Also, there is always the option of fully slugging if that keeps things clear.

You can also try, as has been suggested, to indicate the passage of time in your action lines.

Quoted from Forgive No. For yea shalt not confuse, but readily clarify. INT. LIBRARY- DAY Exciting things occurring...                             FADE TO BLACK:                             FADE IN: LIBRARY ENTRANCE More fun... ...may not be to everyone's taste, but is quite clear. If you use that method, there is no need for 'LATER' as this has already been suggested. Also, there is always the option of fully slugging if that keeps things clear. You can also try, as has been suggested, to indicate the passage of time in your action lines.

Hmm, I'm sure I've read somewhere that it's allowed.

Dreamscale has done it in his Fade to White script, so I'm going to assume it's acceptable, at least for now, or at least until he gets back to me.

He did it like...

Quoted Text INT. COMMERCIAL AIRLINER - COCKPIT - NIGHT CAPTAIN BLACKBOURN, 40's, friendly, heavyset face, is at the helm of the plane, his Co-PILOT to his right. CABIN The plane looks to be about half full.

See what I mean? There's a sub-location in his scene header, but underneath that we go into the cabin via a mini.

I'm guessing by the same token, it would be equally acceptable to go into the front entrance area like...

Quoted Text INT. LIBRARY - STUDY AREA - DAY People fall over. ENTRANCE People laugh.

As long as the master setting is there in the scene header, I think it's alright.

Yes, that's fine.

Unless you have an EXT scene showing the "master setting" in full, you're always first going to have an INT scene which starts with the master heading and the breaks down from there.

EXT. MASTER'S HOUSE

It's obvious a Master lives in this big fucking place, as there's no way in Hell a Sub could afford it.

INT. MASTER'S HOUSE - BAR

The MASTER makes a perfect martini, while feeling up the buxom buttass naked babe standing next to him.

He swats her perfectly shaped ass, as he heads into the...

LIBRARY

...where another buxom buttass naked babe waits, slowly tracing circles over her more than abundant rack.

  

Quoted from Dreamscale Yes, that's fine. Unless you have an EXT scene showing the "master setting" in full, you're always first going to have an INT scene which starts with the master heading and the breaks down from there. EXT. MASTER'S HOUSE It's obvious a Master lives in this big fucking place, as there's no way in Hell a Sub could afford it. INT. MASTER'S HOUSE - BAR The MASTER makes a perfect martini, while feeling up the buxom buttass naked babe standing next to him. He swats her perfectly shaped ass, as he heads into the... LIBRARY ...where another buxom buttass naked babe waits, slowly tracing circles over her more than abundant rack.

Yeah, safe my dude.

Is that based on a true story?

Quoted from Max Yeah, safe my dude. Is that based on a true story?

True story of my everyday life.  

Quoted from Dreamscale True story of my everyday life.

Do you always have to come out of a mini-slug as well? Btw

Quoted Text INT. LIBRARY - STUDY AREA Max sits on a chair. ENTRANCE Dream enters, greets a random person. BACK TO STUDY AREA Max falls asleep. Dream jumps into frame and slaps Max across the face.

I've seen people use people's names as slugs as well... for example:

MAX

rushes toward the door.

To move back to a person...

So it would be like...

INT. LIBRARY - STUDY AREA - DAY

Max sits in a chair, reads a book.

ENTRANCE

Dream enters and punches a guy in the face.

MAX

closes his eyes and falls asleep.

Dream sneaks into view.


I don't like that tho, bit odd.

It's entirely up to you how you do it, but the point is not to confuse, that's all. In Dream's version there is only going to be one cabin, I would have thought, so it's clear what he's referring to.

In your version am I clear that you are referring to the entrance to the library or the entrance to the study?

Quoted from Forgive It's entirely up to you how you do it, but the point is not to confuse, that's all. In Dream's version there is only going to be one cabin, I would have thought, so it's clear what he's referring to. In your version am I clear that you are referring to the entrance to the library or the entrance to the study?

It's clarified earlier in the script really, it's all one big place.  There's a front desk at the entrance so...

and the action following the slug says "dude sits at the front desk" ect.

I'll probably change it to front entrance, just to clarify.

Forgive brings up a great point, and it's something I harp on alot.

Peeps continuously write Slugs like "INT. HOUSE", "INT. KITCHEN", etc...

What happens when you have more than 1 house or kitchen?  You have a problem, obviously.

This is why I always try to write Slugs that are detailed - I'm referring to Master Slugs, of course here.

Mini Slugs will not be differentiated from each other, meaning, you could have several Mini Slugs, which read as, "KITCHEN, BATHROOM, etc.

This is fine in a spec script, but understand  that when it becomes a shooting script, more work is required to make sure each bathroom and the like are detailed, so the shoot goes smoothly.

And this is really 1 big reason why some are against using Mini Slugs.  They may make the read easier and make the script more visually appealing, but they also lack the detail that a Full Slug gives.

Quoted from Dreamscale Forgive brings up a great point, and it's something I harp on alot. Peeps continuously write Slugs like "INT. HOUSE", "INT. KITCHEN", etc... What happens when you have more than 1 house or kitchen?  You have a problem, obviously. This is why I always try to write Slugs that are detailed - I'm referring to Master Slugs, of course here. Mini Slugs will not be differentiated from each other, meaning, you could have several Mini Slugs, which read as, "KITCHEN, BATHROOM, etc. This is fine in a spec script, but understand  that when it becomes a shooting script, more work is required to make sure each bathroom and the like are detailed, so the shoot goes smoothly. And this is really 1 big reason why some are against using Mini Slugs.  They may make the read easier and make the script more visually appealing, but they also lack the detail that a Full Slug gives.

If there's more than one house, I guess you just put...

Quoted Text INT. MIKE'S HOUSE - DAY Mike does this and that. KITCHEN More action.

And of course if you move to a different house...

Quoted Text INT. DAVID'S HOUSE - DAY David does this and that. KITCHEN More action.

And if you want to get back to them specific areas later in the script...

Quoted Text INT. DAVID'S HOUSE - KITCHEN - DAY

Or perhaps consider giving unique names to the locations...

Quoted Text EXT. THE ABODE - DAY A rather large house with a medieval style door. INT. THE ABODE - KITCHEN - DAY Dreamscale washes a pair of undies at the sink.

That's how I'd do it anyway, if you have multiple HOUSE locations.  The mini-slugs can stay the same tho, because they are underneath different MASTER SETTINGS.  People will obviously understand the difference if a "KITCHEN" mini-slug is beneath a different master.

So what I'm saying is, people will understand the difference between

Quoted Text INT. THE ABODE - DAY Dreamscale does something, moves to the -- KITCHEN -- where he ect.

and...

Quoted Text INT. CRYSTAL PALACE - DAY Dreamscale does something, moves to the -- KITCHEN -- where he ect.

Both use the kitchen mini-slug but in different master settings, and it can easily be changed to a full slug...

Quoted Text INT. CRYSTAL PALACE - KITCHEN - DAY

Am I right?

Yes, you are correct.

But, you should not start off with something like,

"INT. KITCHEN"

Max orders his bitch to make him a meal.

You first need to set the Master Scene, as you've been properly diong in your examples.

Quoted from Dreamscale Yes, you are correct. But, you should not start off with something like, "INT. KITCHEN" Max orders his bitch to make him a meal. You first need to set the Master Scene, as you've been properly diong in your examples.

Yah bro, I would never use a scene header like that because it's way too vague.  The only time I would consider using something like that is in a short, where perhaps there won't be another house in the script.

I've found that FULL SLUGS can't always cover descriptive elements.  When you say have a slug which says...

INT. CLASSROOM - DAY

..people know outright what the setting may look like, so you won't need to describe as much.  When you're describing some ancient, underground alien facility though, things heat up, especially when you have a solid visual in your mind, but again, that might be a decision for the director.

Quoted from Dreamscale Max orders his bitch to make him a meal.

  

But Jeff refuses to cook, as it's his night off.

Quoted from Max Both use the kitchen mini-slug but in different master settings, and it can easily be changed to a full slug... Am I right?

...depends on your question... in a script break-down, all your INT. KITCHEN scenes will be filmed at the same time, so it's back to the clarification point-- are you being clear about what happens and when.

I do see the point you are making and it will matter more in a feature vs a short, but if you're breaking a feature down these things become less clear - do you get what I mean?

Quoted from Forgive ...depends on your question... in a script break-down, all your INT. KITCHEN scenes will be filmed at the same time, so it's back to the clarification point-- are you being clear about what happens and when. I do see the point you are making and it will matter more in a feature vs a short, but if you're breaking a feature down these things become less clear - do you get what I mean?

Yeah, I think I am being clear in my script.  I don't have INT. KITCHEN scenes, because I always have a MASTER SETTING.

Scenes like INT. DAVID'S HOUSE - KITCHEN and INT. MIKE'S HOUSE - KITCHEN will of course be filmed in different locations, to differentiate.

There is never a case in my script where INT. KITCHEN is used twice to describe two different locations, that would be insanity... because how would one differentiate?

There has to be a master location for locations like that, no doubt brother.

My script won't get filmed, but it's not about that.  I'm trying to achieve a standard for myself and others, just from a pure screenplay perspective.

To make myself clear, because I'm slightly tipsy right about now, few cans of beer and all that.

INT. KITCHEN = Would never be used as a full slug twice, or at all even, especially if there is multiple houses in a script.

INT. KITCHEN would always have to come with something before it, a master setting ect.

Quoted from Max INT. KITCHEN = Would never be used as a full slug twice, or at all even, especially if there is multiple houses in a script. INT. KITCHEN would always have to come with something before it, a master setting ect.

IMO, "INT. KITCHEN" should never, ever be used in any script, be it a short or a feature.  If for no otehr rason, it is lazy and gets the writer in a bad and lazy way of thinking it's OK.

It's not OK, whetehr or not you have multiple kitchens you're making your bitch make you a meal or if you're drilling her on the kitchen counter.

Consistency is something that can only be achieved through being consistent each and every time.

Quoted from Dreamscale IMO, "INT. KITCHEN" should never, ever be used in any script, be it a short or a feature.  If for no otehr rason, it is lazy and gets the writer in a bad and lazy way of thinking it's OK. It's not OK, whetehr or not you have multiple kitchens you're making your bitch make you a meal or if you're drilling her on the kitchen counter. Consistency is something that can only be achieved through being consistent each and every time.

lol bruh, what happens if you have three kitchens in one house tho?

Quoted Text INT. RANDOM HOUSE - DAY Max moves into the -- MASTER KITCHEN -- and then to the -- SMALL KITCHEN -- and then to the -- EVEN SMALLER KITCHEN

That's a fucked up house.

Trippin out.

Yeah...that would be a fucked up house.  

I don't use minis as standard any more. Non standard things can arise through pacing and the like... depends on a lot of things. Generally though I do full slugs, precisely because it can get confusing if you have two living rooms. As other people jump on board the script they will only have to figure it out later, which means you're making somebody else's job more difficult... or they may even expect you to do it which further delays the script development stage.

Thinking further about it, it was Forgive that first opened my eyes to this issue around a year or so ago. I ignored him, of course... then later found out through direct experience that he was correct. Ouch.

Hm... mini slugs vs. slugs.  Hot topic in the screenwriting world.

Okay, imagine a MAN making dinner in the KITCHEN.  He takes the tray out the oven, dishes it all up, carries two plates into the DINING ROOM.  Returns to the KITCHEN for two wine glasses.  Then he's sitting at the table with a WOMAN eating the food he made.

How would this function on-screen?  Well...

Quoted Text INT. KITCHEN - DAY MAN takes a lasagna tray out of the oven.  He dishes up two plates, carries them - DINING ROOM - and places them on the table.  Sets up cutlery - KITCHEN - Collects two wine glasses from the cupboard. INT. DINING ROOM - NIGHT MAN sits with WOMAN at the table.

I think if the action follows what a character is doing in one scene to the next, then a mini slug functions alongside them.  So if they step from one room to the next on a phone call, for example, that's a mini slug.

If they're in the hallway/foyer of a house, and they step outside.  No mini slug is useful because they're going from INT. to EXT.

I could be wrong, but I think that's the best way to tackle mini slugs.  

Quoted from Leegion Hm... mini slugs vs. slugs.  Hot topic in the screenwriting world. Okay, imagine a MAN making dinner in the KITCHEN.  He takes the tray out the oven, dishes it all up, carries two plates into the DINING ROOM.  Returns to the KITCHEN for two wine glasses.  Then he's sitting at the table with a WOMAN eating the food he made. How would this function on-screen?  Well... I think if the action follows what a character is doing in one scene to the next, then a mini slug functions alongside them.  So if they step from one room to the next on a phone call, for example, that's a mini slug. If they're in the hallway/foyer of a house, and they step outside.  No mini slug is useful because they're going from INT. to EXT. I could be wrong, but I think that's the best way to tackle mini slugs.

Pretty much my approach as well - same location-same time (like a man walking thru a house) I think they work quite well.

A caveat though - I have often found that my own use of  mini-slugs can be a warning flare of over writing. Specifically, I have often found when re-editing something that I really only needed the last room in the house for the script. i.e., not only were the mini slugs not needed, neither were the scenes.

Quoted from eldave1 A caveat though - I have often found that my own use of  mini-slugs can be a warning flare of over writing. Specifically, I have often found when re-editing something that I really only needed the last room in the house for the script. i.e., not only were the mini slugs not needed, neither were the scenes.

Great point, Dave.  Writing with "tracking shots" and/or continuous action doesn't work for every situation and can be quite tedious and even completely unnecessary.

Quoted from Leegion Hm... mini slugs vs. slugs.  Hot topic in the screenwriting world. Okay, imagine a MAN making dinner in the KITCHEN.  He takes the tray out the oven, dishes it all up, carries two plates into the DINING ROOM.  Returns to the KITCHEN for two wine glasses.  Then he's sitting at the table with a WOMAN eating the food he made. How would this function on-screen?  Well...

Well, in part they are a hot topic for good reason. In your example you have DINING ROOM as a mini, and then after that have the dining room as a master. You'd do this this other way round; but then of course, you have your two masters: in that case it is better to have the house as a master, and the kitchen and dining room as minis, as the minis are sub-locations within the scene.

I think it's always important to acknowledge that setting a new scene means setting up in that scene, so people are going to be getting equipment, lights etc. together to do the filming, so you have to establish what scenes need to be set up very clearly.