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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Do You Have A Clubcard? Moderators: bert
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  Author    Do You Have A Clubcard?  (currently 5870 views)
Don
Posted: March 23rd, 2009, 6:50pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Do You Have A Clubcard? by Howard Jensen (ColKurtz - Short, Comedy, Drama - Thomas, a fed up, derisive store clerk unwittingly possesses an irresistible "routine" to a certain kind of woman...enter Nicole. (40 Pages) - pdf, format


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Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Don  -  November 4th, 2009, 5:45pm
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Colkurtz8
Posted: March 23rd, 2009, 7:54pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks Don for posting this up.

As per usual your response time is exceptional, much appreciated.

I understand thus is a difficult length for the short section, (in other words, too da?n long) But if anybody takes the time to read & feed this I will be more than happy to return the favour with something of yours of a similar length.

As always, honesty is essential in any comments you may leave.

Cheers.

Col.


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sniper
Posted: March 24th, 2009, 2:22am Report to Moderator
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Hey Col,

It's great that you posted this script - btw. how much has changed (if any) from the draft I read?


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tonkatough
Posted: March 24th, 2009, 3:22am Report to Moderator
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Ouch! I cringed when I read that it was 40 pages long.  But ColKurtz always makes an effort to read my scripts so by cripes I will do the same for him.

I'm half way through it and will finish it tommorow night and  post my review.

So far I am really enjoying it.


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sniper
Posted: March 24th, 2009, 3:38am Report to Moderator
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It's worth the 40 pages, Glenn.


Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load
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stevie
Posted: March 24th, 2009, 3:44am Report to Moderator
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Yeah, I agree Rob. Col sent me this a few weeks ago and it was well done. We had scripts both set in a supermarket so we did a swap.



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tonkatough
Posted: March 24th, 2009, 4:20am Report to Moderator
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Funny you should say that Stevie cause when I started reading this it did remind me of your script about supermarket workers


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Colkurtz8
Posted: March 24th, 2009, 4:45am Report to Moderator
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Sniper

Only a small change to the ending with Bill's character. I know, length is a serious issue with me, there was just nothing I wanted to cut. I'm sure after some home truths on here I'll be willing to reconsider. Thanks for the plug too

Glenn
Cheers for taking the time, man, I hope its worth the effort. As I said if you have anything done similar in length send it on to me, I'll be more then happy to oblige.

Stevie

Thanks for the plug, dude.

May I say that this draft (for better or for worse) owes a lot to some extremely helpful critique prior to me posting it here. Guilty parties include: Toby_E, Ste Brown, Sniper, Stevie and in particular Rjbelair. Cheers for the help guys, much appreciated.

So, If it gets panned I can always blame ye motherfu?kers


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steven8
Posted: March 24th, 2009, 4:46am Report to Moderator
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colkurtz,

Just finished.  I liked it, even though I'm pretty sure I dated this girl at one point.  I wasn't Gary.  

Anyway, The characters and dialogue were pretty consistent, and I like the way you handled the action.  The scene of her coming over the counter at him and the scene where Gary rams their car were really well done.
  
On page 36, at the bottom, you call Gary Thomas for one block of dialogue.  On Page 32, you have Mr. Reeves say, "I�m not even gonna ask. . .", and I don't think he'd say 'gonna', like the guys who work there.  I hear him saying a more proper 'going'.

Over all it was funny and ironic, and worked in all the ways you wanted it to.  What a psychotic girl!


...in no particular order
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steven8
Posted: March 24th, 2009, 4:50am Report to Moderator
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Oh, one quick thing.  And this is just me, and I've noticed it in lots of scripts.  Why do young or young-ish characters always have to be smoking weed?


...in no particular order
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tonkatough
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That's an easy question to answer Steven8.

As Mr Mackey would say: "Drugs are bad . . .  M'kay."


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steven8
Posted: March 24th, 2009, 5:15am Report to Moderator
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I had to look up Mr. Mackey.  I've never watched South Park.  I haven't watched a regular TV show since 1990.  That's why references in my scripts tend to be 'outdated'.  Gotta bone up on these things!


...in no particular order
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Toby_E
Posted: March 24th, 2009, 6:18am Report to Moderator
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Yo Col,

Is there enough changes for me to read the whole thing again, or should I just comment on the new(er) ending?


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Colkurtz8
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Steven

Thanks for the read, Steven. Yeah I agree with "gonna" -- "going" thing, it's just where I'm from that word always sounds like "gonna" in the cotext of a spoken sentance, but yo're correct "going" is more suitable for Mr Reeve.

In relation to the wrong name over the dialogue, can you tell which line exactly as I've just checked it and cannot see it.

"Oh, one quick thing.  And this is just me, and I've noticed it in lots of scripts.  Why do young or young-ish characters always have to be smoking weed?"

-- Again where I'm from (and I presume a lot of people my age on this site will back me up)...A lot of people our age smoke weed, at least in my own social circle anyway. I don't know the stats but its very prevalent, particulary among the working class. Plus I think it fits Thomas's type of character too. Thanks agin for the taking the time.

Or of course see Tonka's terse but accurate reasoning.

Toby_E

Hey man. No I wouldn't say its worth reading again from start to finish, but yeah check out the ending if you get a chance. The only thing being is that it relates to a short additional scene earlier in the piece when Thomas is talking to Bill on the phone.

Cheers for the interest, everyone.

Col.


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steven8
Posted: March 24th, 2009, 4:31pm Report to Moderator
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Hey col,

THis is the passage:

NICOLE
Did you get a job at Best Prices?

THOMAS
(cool)
Yep, received a phone call this
morning, got fitted out for this.
(nods at Thomas)
Went to pay your little “flash in
the pan” there a visit, show him
who’s boss.
(MORE)

Then it's also in the (CONT) on the next page.

I did that all through my The Program script.  I kept mixing up Larry with the guy in the story he was telling.

As far as weed, where I come from is no different.  I grew up in the 70s.  My recollection is that anyone wearing denim material on their body was smoking dope.  That's why they had such a hard time getting me to wear bluejeans.  I always thought those were the 'bad' people.  I know longer think that at all.  Most of my friends in high school and college smoked dope/hash as well as acid, and drank like fish.  Now I ONLY where bluejeans, but I don't smoke dope, etc.  


...in no particular order
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Colkurtz8
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Stevie

Sorry my bad. For some reason I thought you said it was on page 35, good catch mate.

I'll check out "Blueprint for life" when I get a chance its only one of yours I haven't read according to your site anyway. Nice job on that too, well put together.

Cheers

Col.


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steven8
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That'd be swell, col.  Thanks.  Read it from my thread as well, as it is in total rewrite right now, and in the second draft, not much will make sense after page 21.  The first twenty one pages of the second draft are the rewrite of the first 17 pages of the first draft.


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cloroxmartini
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Story about Thomas, a grocery store clerk, who catches the eye of Nicole, a nympho for men in uniform, specifically grocery clerk uniforms. Nicole seduces Thomas every chance she gets as long as Thomas wears his uniform and spouts out the line “do you have a club card.” Nicole eventually jumps Thomas while he’s working and Thomas gets suspended. Since Thomas is longer a working man in uniform, Nicole takes back her old boyfriend, also a store clerk in uniform, leaving Thomas only memories of wild sexual rendezvous’ with Nicole.

The plot was very well developed and very strong from the setup to end. Reminded me of a harder version of what I might see on It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I felt like the first 10 pages should have been 5. You do a great deal of action writing in order to get your image across and I think you could pare the action writing down, being more selective about your words, and you wouldn‘t miss a beat. The same thing happened when describing the Raging Bull picture above the bed. When you described that altercation between Gary and Thomas, you became less wordy. Also when Gary finally took Nicole away from Thomas, you were less wordy. Those parts read best.

Dialogue was good and contemporary with current dialogue in R movies and cable shows.

The characters spoke and reacted as they would in real life, or at least this slice of it, and did not come off as fabricated in order to fill the plot. The characters lived and the plot developed from there. Nicole needed a man in uniform and by god she was going to get one. Thomas was properly shocked and dismayed, but, like any good red blooded young man, never let that get in the way of getting laid. Bill is the proper envious sidekick with a thing for older women (good setup and payoff). Gary plays out the jealous ex who figures out how to get his girl back. The requisite bit parts help move the rest of the story along.

Writing was good considering observations mentioned above. Several type-o’s and grammatical errors. It appeared to me that Thomas had Gary’s lines on page 36, 37.

Overall it was interesting and engaging for what it is; a guy’s wet dream with a few bumps and bruises along the way. I didn’t laugh much, chuckled some. For me it was more along the lines of holy shit, really. Chalk that up to age.
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escapist
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I thought you had a really good story here.  I thought you were taking it somewhere else, and I was pleasantly surprised with how things ended up.

The biggest problem for me was that the script feels a bit bloated.  I think you can probably cut this down to about 30 pages and have a much better piece.  The opening conversation between Thomas and Bill was largely unnecessary, as is the opening montage.  Nicole and Thomas' conversation in the bread aisle also runs a big long.  You don't have to show us everything they say...the time and place are more or less irrelevant, for example.

There are several other areas like this that can use a trim.  Probably the most important one is when Gary comes in and punches Thomas.  Rather than having him reveal everything right there, save it for when he stops by Nicole's later.  As it is, it really steals the thunder from the later scene.  We already know he's going to get her back.  I would cut everything from"a fad that's all" to "Thomas takes his hand away".

While I give you major points for referencing Crash (the good one), it's definitely not a movie I think anyone should assume other people have seen.  Maybe tweak her line a little there.

The ending felt a little lackluster to me, too.  I see what you're going for, but I think you need to give some indication that the woman is interested in Bill.


I have nothing that you can read.
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sniper
Posted: March 25th, 2009, 2:53am Report to Moderator
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Hey Col,

Just want to reiterate what I wrote you earlier when I first read your script.

I feel this is a very solid piece with an interesting and often funny premise. The characters are all very lively and engaging. Nicole is obviously a scene-stealer as she should be but I think Thomas manages to hold up on his own, and I attribute that to your use of Bill and their conversations together - though sometimes pure exposition, it works in getting Thomas' view of things across.

The only thing that bothers me about the story is the fact the Thomas gets suspended without pay from his workplace. I don't know how it works everywhere in the world but I've never heard of that before (other than in pretty much every cop movie) but not in the private sector.

GARY
You may have swooned her with this
place...your fancy uniform.

Hehe - I loved that line.

Cheers
Rob


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tonkatough
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Hey Col.

You know, I think this may the be the first script of yours that I actually got through to the end.

I really really enjoyed this one. It was a tight focused story centered around a uniqe and clever idea of Nicole who gets off on- of all things -a grocery clerk.

Obviously you have been paying attention to the reviews of your scripts or have burrowed your nose into "how to do plot structure" books as the plot of this script was perfect and is focused like a lazer while your previous scripts I read where lose sprawling, episodic wastlands of everything and nothing.

The whole pot smoking slacker Thomas was a bit of a Kevin Smith clique. But Nymphoid Nicole was an awesome character and the perfect central problem that drove the whole plot forward.  Gary was like a big gorilla version of Frank Booth.

Totally agree with the person above about how you write action. I didn't notice the problem myself but if what he suggests can shave off five pages from your scripts it is worth looking into.

This was a great script and I look forward to your next one.  


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Colkurtz8
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cloroxmartini

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Yeah, they opening scene feel a little extended at 10 pages but it was down to the complex descriptive I needed to get across.

I wanted to let the reader know of Nicole leanings without being too obvious and then get Gary out of the picture so Nicole and Thomas could have a proper meet & greet.

The reason why the final exchanges between Gary & Thomas are less wordy is because the everything has being set up, its a case of letting the characters do the talking.

I don't want to insult the audiences by being over explicit, finding that right balance is key and something I've yet to master.

"Thomas was properly shocked and dismayed, but, like any good red blooded young man, never let that get in the way of getting laid."

-- I'm glad you said this, because a major talking point I had with someone was that Thomas doesn't really have much of a goal throughout the piece "A victim of circumstance" was how he summed up Tomas's situation...and he was correct.

My point being "so what", he's a guy who has just crossed paths with a hot, sexy girl who wants him bad. Why shouldn't he just hang in their for the "ride" and get all the sex he can...until he realises he's in way over his head with the warring couple.

I'm kicking myself over the Thomas getting Gary's lines on pgs 26-27, very sloppy.

You say there are several grammatical errors, where?

"I didn’t laugh much, chuckled some." -- Again I'm glad you said this, I never intended it too be a laugh out loud or gross comedy. There always too much of those dumbass pictures around at one time for my liking, without me trying my hand at them, not my cup of tea generally.

I'll try and cut out some of the prose in the rewrite and see about dropping scenes...something I'm very slow in doing most of the time.

Once again thanks for taking the time, if you have anything done let me know. I'll take a look.



Escapist

Cheers for the comments, man.

The biggest problem for me was that the script feels a bit bloated. -- Yep I've heard this before and I'll hear it in the future. Subsequent rewrites down the line will strive to remedy this.

Interesting point you made about about cutting the Gary punching Thomas scene and leaving everything to the end. When I was writing it I considered that to be the primary confrintation because of the public location and heightened drama of the scene...All done with tongue firmly placed in cheek of course.

Whisch is why I gave Gary some grandiose, hard man lines. The guy thinks he's the sh?t.

"While I give you major points for referencing Crash (the good one), it's definitely not a movie I think anyone should assume other people have seen.  Maybe tweak her line a little there"

-- Sorry, brother I have to disagree with you on this one. If people don't know the film...well, thats fine by me. Makes it all the more rewarding when someone does.

I'm disappointed you didn't like the ending. Originally, It was just Thomas saying the line and serving the wannabes. More or less saying "I'm not going thru that again" the Bill part was added in a later rewrite. It worked for me, but I'll have a look at it again.

Thanks for the review, if have anything up here I'd love read em.



Robert

The only thing that bothers me about the story is the fact the Thomas gets suspended without pay from his workplace. I don't know how it works everywhere in the world but I've never heard of that before (other than in pretty much every cop movie) but not in the private sector.

-- I'm not sure about this either. I guess I was just being mean, rubbing salt in Thomas's wound. Plus I'd say Mr Reeve would pull a stunt like that if it were within the bounds of the law.

Also the circumstances in which Thomas was called up about (Reeve probably assumes Thomas threw a few punches himself) could warrant such a harsh dismissal. Employee rights or not I'm sure there are some stuff you can do in the workplace that will get you sacked without a leg to stand on.

Whether fighting is one or not, I can't say.

Many thanks for the positive remarks too.

Good, constructive advice all around fellas, is what I come here for, cheers.

Col.


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steven8
Posted: March 25th, 2009, 4:09am Report to Moderator
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Fighting in the workplace can be dismissal on the spot.  In this case, Thomas wasn't fighting, but attacked.  However, Mr. Reeve has had a personal peeve against Thomas for some time, and seems to be using this opportunity to let it out.  He is stepping out of bounds a little as a manager, but I don't think he's that great of a manager to begin with.  A good manager should always keep things from being a personal vendetta, but it doesn't always work that way.


...in no particular order
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sniper
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I didn't mean the reason why he gets suspended, I was referring to the fact that he gets suspended without pay when the logical thing to do was to fire him.

I mean, you either work for somebody or you don't.


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steven8
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I don't feel he should have been fired for what happened.  Not the girl, nor the attack.  I definitely would have reprimanded him, and given him a verbal warning about what does or doesn't happen in the store, then maybe taken stronger steps later on, if things didn't clear up.  However, Reeve had to do what he did to drive the story forward!  


...in no particular order
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This is really wierd man! ha ha it felt uncomfortable reading, an almost guilty pleasure at enjoying such a perverse story!
I dont know how long this would transfer to on screen but it would fit in an half hour show really well. Theres a few comedy strange ones on here, the haircut, numbers numb spring to mind, this could fit in nicely to a series of wierd and wonderful!
I was intrigued how this would end, the closing is very sharp and well done, makes the read well worth it.
No probs with any of the writing, though i dont know what a "bomb shelter menu" is, is that an American thing!
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Colkurtz8
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Tonka

Thank you for the kind remarks.

You have commented on all my shorts so far that I've posted here, and the feature I had up for a bit. I think it was that and "Engaged" you didn't finish and understandably so I may add.

I've actually been working on that 284 page, 2 part feature (yikes!!) the past few weeks.

Its currently down to 148 pages, so I've a lot done with still a bit to go yet.

"Gary was like a big gorilla version of Frank Booth." -- Thats the greatest compliment I could get, man. I actually watched it the other week for only my second time. What a character, what a film.

"The whole pot smoking slacker Thomas was a bit of a Kevin Smith clique."

-- Fair point, but thats simply because thats what the majority of those store clerks are like, the epitomize your average, everyday, pissed off working class stiff. They're everywhere, I know a few myself, walking cliche's in uniform.

Thanks again for checking out "Clubcard".

Steven8 & Sniper

Sorry I picked you up wrong, Robert.

Yeah, between catching Thomas talking to Nicole on the job -- to his less than shabby appearance on the morning shifts -- to the punch he gets off Gary -- plus Reeve's subsequent knowledge of Nicole's surprise visit the night before, I wanted it to be an accumulated, combo of things to result in his temporary dismissal, with Nicole being directly or indirectly responsible for each of the Thomas's "breaches"

I had always intended for Thomas to get suspended as so to set up the final scene. I dont think its completely unrealistic that he didn't get fired, part of Reeve probably get satisfaction out of barking at him, we've all had those kind of sadistic bosses.

"A good manager should always keep things from being a personal vendetta, but it doesn't always work that way." -- I think its fair to say Mr Reeve doesn't fall into the "Good Manager" column.

Barkman

Glad you enjoyed it, even more happy you felt uncomfortable reading it. An emotion I didn't forsee but its all good.

Yeah I'd like to believe it would fit into a 30min-35min slot, even with the way it is now.

"Bomb shelter menu" -- What I meant by that, was all the canned food the Freshers had was similar to that of a shopping list one would get for a "Bomb Shelter/bunker or whatever if there was ever a nuclear war to break out or a threat of an air raid like during war times.

Yeah I know, too much American TV.

P.s For the record, I'm not American.

Thanks again for reading and sharing your thoughts.

Col.


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Grandma Bear
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Hey,

thought I'd give this a read today.

My comments might seem somewhat useless to you because I don't really have much to add, suggest or complain about.

I thought it worked pretty well and was a quick and enjoyable read. I agree with some of the other comments that the beginning especially could be shortened or tightened some. I wouldn't say that it dragged, but it did go on longer than necessary.

Trying to think of something else to say... okay... if possible I would have liked some little comment or detail that would let me know why Nic has this obsession with the clerks, their uniforms and that line. I felt occasionally that it was too odd of a thing to not explain. Seemed a little unbelievable.

Also thought at the end that Thomas should've been too scared to want to try to get the attention of the woman. Especially after what he'd just been through with Nicole. Bill should IMO do everything he can to try to get her though. I know he might, but he should try REALLY hard. In a comedic way maybe even. Over the top so to speak.

That's all I have to say. I think you did a good job.  


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Colkurtz8
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Pia

I appreciate you taking the time to read this, I know its a long one. Its always great to get some feedback from you.

I was curious to see what the opposite sex would think of it,in particlur Nicole's character.

"Trying to think of something else to say... okay... if possible I would have liked some little comment or detail that would let me know why Nic has this obsession with the clerks, their uniforms and that line."

-- Never occured to me actually, length was already an issue without having a back story plus I don't think it was required. This was meant to be a bizarre, shortlived, whirlwind romance of sorts, both sides effectively out for the same thing.

I tried to convey this in the scene where Thomas tries to engage in meaningful conversation but is met with ridicule from Nicole, who counteracts by "impugning his cocksmanship" (to quote Max Schumacher from "Network")

I mean, how could one justify an odd fetish like that without concocting some equally ridiculous childhood experience o memory. I thought the story had enough randomness already.

"I felt occasionally that it was too odd of a thing to not explain. Seemed a little unbelievable."

-- Of course, that was my intention, this is tongue planted firmly in cheek (or at least my attempt at that style of story) And I totally understand if its not everybody's thing.

But look at the car incident, the events before it when Nicole mounts Thomas's checkout, the subsequent sex afterwards in the car itself, the whole premise is unrealistic to begin with, logic or reasoning was never going to be the order of the day.

I wrote this for the sheer entertainment, nothing more.

"Also thought at the end that Thomas should've been too scared to want to try to get the attention of the woman."

-- You must have mis read the ending, maybe I didn't make it clear enough.

That is why Thomas says the line to the "Wannabes". He is making the decision to serve them instead of telling them where to go like he done with the "Freshers" at the start. He doesn't want the attention of the woman in the queue for the very reason you just stated.

You may have thought he said the "Clubcard" line to impress the woman??. Now having Thomas come across 2 women with the same fetish in the space of a month would be a little too far-fetched...everything has its llimits.

"Bill should IMO do everything he can to try to get her though. I know he might, but he should try REALLY hard. In a comedic way maybe even. Over the top so to speak."

-- Good suggestion, that would definitelty dish up a more climactic conclusion. What I was aiming for was letting the reader know that "mature" women is Bill's vice, so to speak.

His expression relating back to the earlier scene when he is on the phone to Thomas watching the blue movie.

Who knows, maybe he did try his case when he served her, undeterrred by the exploits of his workmate.

Thanks again for the read, let me know if you have anything of a similar length, I'd love to read it.

Col.


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Grandma Bear
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I agree my comment seemed like I missed a few things. I didn't though. I was trying to think of anything, and I mean anything to say. So there, it's your fault for writing something that didn't need any fixing.


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Colkurtz8
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My sincerest apologies


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Cam17
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Col,

I liked this.  Your characters were well-defined and remained true to themselves throughout the story.  I love that idea of a retail groupie.  Score one for the working man.  Where the hell was this chick when I was sixteen and working at Kroger?  

I agree with another reviewer that you could pare it down a bit, maybe down to 30-35 pages by trimming some scenes and dialogue.  

The core of the comedy here is Nicole's obsession with clerks.  It's funny because it makes no sense.  I was thinking that you could have exploited this even further.  Like maybe Thomas looks through some of her old pictures and, in every one of them, she's smiling with some guy from a different retail chain.  Or, she has a wall covered with mementos of her previous conquests.  Reminds me of a line from one of the Wayne's World movies:  "I have an extensive collection of nametags and hairnets."

But this was a good slice of working class comedy.

Cam





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Andrew
Posted: April 8th, 2009, 1:07pm Report to Moderator
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Col,

Just finished reading this one, and it was an enjoyable read.

I am interested what your intentions are with this one - the length is not really appropriate to anything but a 30 minute sitcom, I think. The way I see it, if you are looking to commercialise this script, you have two options:

1) Turn it into a feature.
2) Trim the script down into a 30 minute show, and create a series.

Personally, I loved the premise of the script - it was amusing, and worked as a self-contained story. As Cam stated, this story hinges on Nicole and her unfathomable - but entertaining - desire for supermarket boys. There is scope for this to work on screen, no question.

My suggestion regards the series idea is that you could use Thomas and Bill as a vessel for a succession of stories in subsequent 30 minute episodes, utilising the quirks of supermarket shoppers. Here Thomas is totally used by a vamp, and this is owing to his otherwise unremarkable job - but, it becomes remarkable 'cos of an unhinged girl. Not sure how developed Thomas and Bill are in your mind, but if these guys are strong characters, I really think you could make this work as a series.

Perhaps in the next episode, Thomas or Bill become embroiled with shoplifters, or whatever - the world is your oyster.

My only real criticism is with Mr. Reeve, he felt like a character created only to payoff with the suspension, and his relationship with Thomas felt a little too like Marty McFly and Mr. Strickland.

To finish then - a job well done.

Andrew


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Colkurtz8
Posted: April 9th, 2009, 3:12am Report to Moderator
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Cam

Thanks for reading, I understand the length is a bit daunting especially on the shorts board. Glad you were able to get through it.

"It's funny because it makes no sense." -- I'm glad you said this as it was exactly my thinking when writing it. The initial absurd premise was, in a way, a device to let me take the story in any direction I wanted.  From the out set I tried to make it clear that this was by no means a serious script of any kind. That this was to be taken with a pinch of salt.

"I was thinking that you could have exploited this even further.  Like maybe Thomas looks through some of her old pictures and, in every one of them, she's smiling with some guy from a different retail chain.  Or, she has a wall covered with mementos of her previous conquests."

-- Yeah I could have really milked the whole obsession thing, as you say it is the core of the piece but I wanted to keep reins on it to some degree. If I sensationalized it too much I felt it could loose some of its surprise value. You've made some good suggestions although Thomas would've probably run a mile if she had stuff all over her room and that...Even a sexually frustrated, mid twenties male have their limits when it comes to the prospect of gettin' "sex on tap" of a gorgeous woman...don't we?

Thanks again for taking the time, much appreciated.



Andrew

Cheers for reading, considering you've only posted "short shorts" on here so far, I appreciate you taking this on. If you have anything of a similar length I'd be more than happy to take a look.

Yeah, the two options you mentioned came to my mind too. Personally I've no desire to turn it into a sitcom as I don't particularly like that genre of television. Shortening it down to a  manageable size would be more in my line of thinking although I've moved on to other things since so I've no ambition to do anything with it for the moment.

I like your summation of Nicole's influence on Thomas's otherwise boring, listless existence and see the potential here for a sitcom. But I never in a million years envisaged this being made or anything when writing this. It was an idea that came to me and just grew and grew.

It's been the most fun I've had writing yet, as thats all I ever intended it to be...a bit of fun

I see how Reeve could come off as your standard prick of a boss. Ha, I like the Marty Mac reference. I didn't mean for it to be has hammed up as that but given Thomas's attitude I think its only right that he wouldn't be a manager's best friend.

Many thanks again for reading, Andrew. Ill check out your "Cruiseaholics" when it hits the site.

Cheers

Col.


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grademan
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Hey Col.

I was propelled through the 40 pages! Like others have said before, very well constructed and great characters with fine dialogue. A little on the descrptive side early on.

Gary
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Colkurtz8
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Grademan

Cheers for the read. Yeah, I know its a bit wordy in places, I've been meaning to go over it again and tighten it up .

Glad you could get through it, much appreciated.

If you have anything on here that I haven't read, let me know.

Cheers

Col.


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James R
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Holy crap, Howard! I just looked at this message board and didn't see any review from myself! I read this a while back and thought I had posted a review, I feel terrible about it. I'll give it another read through and post soon.

James


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Colkurtz8
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No problem James whenever you find the time. I've been meaning to give this a re-read as my writing (I'd like to believe) has tightened up somewhat since I posted this.

Thanks for your interest.

Col.


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James R
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Hey, Col. This was a good short, very entertaining.

I like the banter between Bill and Thomas. I remember wondering if Thomas would really use a word like “misanthropist”, or maybe it’s a more common word over there? Then again, a lot of the dialogue is like that – reminiscent of Kevin Smith dialogue.

I find the eye exchanges between Thomas and Nicole at their initial meeting a little confusing. Filming that many facial expression exchanges might prove very difficult.

It’s a very odd fetish, isn’t it? Did you actually meet anyone with this particular one, or is this just a case of making the past more exciting than it actually was?

Teasing us with the woman back at the supermarket and the “clubcard” line was pretty good. Nice way to tie it all up.

This would be pretty easy to film and would be funny to watch. Good writing, pretty tight, very few errors.

James


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Colkurtz8
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James

Thank you for taking the time to read this, I understand its a daunting length for a short. As I said I do plan to reread and tighten it up, I literally haven't looked at it in a few months now.

I'm glad you got some enjoyment from it and maybe a few laughs or what the fu?k moments. It was probably the most fun I've had writing yet.

I know what you mean about the confusion you may have experienced during the initial Thomas and Nicole meeting. Its a difficult scene to document as its all body language ad suggestive looks. Filming it would be tough also. I'll be giving it special attention during the revision

Yep it is a very odd fetish, it just came to me. Unfortunately I don’t know a woman like Nicole, she would be an interesting person to be around, although I don't work in a "uniformed position" so I wouldn't stand a chance with her.

Thanks again for the read, much appreciated, man.

Cheers.

Col.


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rendevous
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Col,

Enjoyed this one. Can't say I've seen a film or tv show like it. The only similar thing that springs to mind is Caroline "Mrs. Merton / Royal Family" Aherne doing the sarcastic comments as she tills products.


Quoted from Fast Show
Oh, meal for one. And it's Saturday night as well, awww. Big bottle of vokda, hmmm, that'll take your mind of it though eh?


Good plot and characters. I'd like to see more character intro description though as I find it hard to picture them, which also means I find it harder than I should to remember their names and quirks.

Coupla typos here and there, coupla strange wordings too. I'll send you a PDF of that stuff if you like. Makes it clearer and easier than doing a big long silly list of that stuff.


Quoted from Thomas in DYHACC?
I heard the tall one say how he’s gonna write his name on all his
stuff when they get back to whatever hovel they’re squatting
in...What a fascist.


I've heard lads say stuff just like that and thought the same. Made me chuckle.

Good clear descriptions of the action and interaction though so I could see all that clearly enough, which was well done and enjoyable.

Bit of telling instead of showing going on here and there. I'd always add a bit more action / description of expressions and reactions to asides, unfilmables and tells to lessen it.

I'm usually against numbering characters by type, especially when they have lines. I'd much rather give them names. Unless they are very minor parts I'd err on the side of the naming them. Unless they are coppers. Or soldiers. As not naming them can give characters a more sinister edge than they would otherwise have.


Quoted from DYHACC?
THOMAS
No, sir, just gonna bask in the
contentment of not having to be
here for another seventy two
hours. Grace and Alex are on
holidays for a week so I’m free of
listening to their shit also.
BILL
The tantric sex?


Good dialogue. I'd shift that 'also' as it sounds weird as it is.

There's some good writing throughout. Some of it though needs polishing and rewording.

Some dropping from the present tense to the past occasionally. It's fine when referring to clothing and when something has already happened but action and the like is always gonna read better when written as now rather than then.


Quoted from DYHACC?
A couple of them swear under their breath but don’t protest
vocally.


Almost a contraction but not quite. It doesn't read well though.


Quoted from DYHACC?
THOMAS (CONT’D)
Do you have a clubcard?
At the sound of this, Nicole lets out a GIGGLE and squirms
ever so slightly. Thomas pretends not to notice but his
half furrowed brow gives him away.


That made me laugh.


Quoted from DYHACC?
NICOLE
I have a particular fondness for
supermarket uniforms if you must
know. Especially the stripy number
you’ve got goin’ on there.


That too.


Quoted from DYHACC?
fuck-me boots


Ah, a very underused phrase. Not seen in a while. Must drop it into one of mine sometime.


Quoted from DYHACC?
He smells himself, grabs for the deodorant.


Makes him sound like a dog. I'd be more specific as it currently sounds like he's smelling his crotch.


Quoted from DYHACC?
NICOLE
Pick me up there straight after
you finish work, k?
(stares at him)
Now I mean straight after, no
going home first to change or
whatever.


That made me laugh as well.

Page 15 gets very interesting. A good idea to take such an often spoken phrase and turn into something else.


Quoted from DYHACC?
INT. SUPERMARKET - CHECKOUTS – MORNING
A clubcard swipes through the card reader. Thomas forces a
smile at the customer as she grabs her bags and walks away.


A well written change of scene that.


Quoted from DYHACC?
A set of knee high boots clip clop their way through the
supermarket.


Good image. Be better of they made a noise on the tiles as they did so though.

I liked the POV too, that worked for me. I'd throw some breathing noises in there.



Quoted from DYHACC?
Thomas’s car JOLTS forward violently, someone has rammed
him from behind -- Thomas knocks his head off the steering
wheel. He struggles to keep the car under control. Nicole
lets out a SCREAM.


The past tense with "rammed him from behind" lets that bit down.


Quoted from DYHACC?
THOMAS
What do you mean ”Oh”?!


That made me laugh.

I'd drop all the CONTINUOUS stuff as it seems obvious to me.

The Crash reference made me laugh too.


Quoted from DYHACC?
GARY (CONT’D
The polo shirt...and I get to say
the line too, motherfucker.


Very good. The way it progresses is good too, particularly with the three in Nicole's house.



Quoted from DYHACC?
THOMAS’S BEDROOM - LATER
Thomas lies awake in bed. MOANS and a bed ROCKING are heard
faintly in another room. Thomas stares at the ceiling.


Excellent.

Overall it's a very good story. I liked the end and the full circle.

I'd say it does need a polish. Some great writing and some that needs work. Nevertheless, very enjoyable indeed Col.

RV



Out Of Character - updated


New Used Car

Green

Right Back

The Deuce - OWC - now on STS

Other scripts here
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Colkurtz8
Posted: December 2nd, 2009, 7:02am Report to Moderator
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RV

Thanks for the read, man, glad you got some enjoyment and a few laughs from it. This was more a bit of fun than anything as can be detected from the subject matter, just one of those random things that come into your head and you end up going with it and a story flowers around it. I agree, some of it works, some of it doesn't.

Good catches on prose side of things, I will implement them when I go to clean it up.

Glad you liked some of the lines. It’s a kind of humour and comedy that will work for some and not others.

I'd must defend the CONTINUOUS usage though. Sure, it might be obvious but it doesn't do any harm either. It's all contained within the location slug line so no extra space is being sacrificed. I'm a firm believer in descriptive scene locations as long as they stay within the confines of the single line.

Thanks again for the read, greatly appreciated.

p.s Fast show quote will always have their place in my books, great to have one on the thread.

Col.


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Brian M
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I'm a massive Kevin Smith fan so scripts or movies set in supermarkets or other dead-end jobs always appeal to me. This was no different. The 39 pages flew by and I enjoyed every one of them. How I wish I knew someone like Nicole. What a girl!

Most others have commented on the descriptions going on a bit. The bedroom posters during sex pushed it too far for me. You even mentioned Robert De Niro in one of the paragraphs there, a bit much in my opinion.

I did have a slight problem, not a major problem, with the boss. I think you need to show Thomas being really cheeky to him at the start so the boss doesn't come across as hating him for the sake of it. Also, suspension without pay is quite extreme, especially for four weeks. Where I work, there's not even a workers union to fight for our rights so we get screwed in every way by our employer, but suspensions always come with pay and are never over a week in length. I can't speak for other workplaces, but four weeks does sound too much. Missing four weeks pay for someone most likely on minimum wage could make them homeless.

Great work with the dialogue, one of the strongest aspects here without a doubt.

I can't help but think you missed a great opportunity with the ending. When you mentioned the woman was in line behind the wannabes, I was sure it was going to be Nicole's mother who suffers from the same fetish, even more so when you mentioned her age to be in the 40's. I was really expecting Bill to deliver a perfect 10 score of the clubcard line and the woman to start giggling like Nicole did as Thomas watches on. Don't get me wrong, I liked the ending, I just thought that opportunity was there for the taking.

Very enjoyable read, all in all. Great job, sir.

Brian
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Colkurtz8
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Brian

Cheers for taking this on, I know the page count is a bit daunting for the shorts section, an awkward length in any regard, halfway between a short and a feature so I appreciate you making the effort.

"Most others have commented on the descriptions going on a bit. The bedroom posters during sex pushed it too far for me. You even mentioned Robert De Niro in one of the paragraphs there, a bit much in my opinion."

-- I see what you mean about the Raging Bull poster, I understand it is "a bit much". It's just that particular film and that particular actor in that particular role is one of the most mesmerising film experiences I've ever...well, experienced. De Niro as La Motta, for me, is the ultimate portrayal of a "man" in every sense of the word, the good and bad, warts an all, no quarter asked or given. The sheer masculinity of that performance from beginning to end, from when he's at the top to down in down in the gutter (punching the prison wall with all his might) he never wavers or compromises so showing that poster at that point in this story was to counterbalance the dominating Nicole over the dominated Thomas. I know its a tad self indulgent and maybe too overt but what can I say, I love the film, the man and the poster stuck up on my room wall. Point taken all the same.

"I did have a slight problem, not a major problem, with the boss. I think you need to show Thomas being really cheeky to him at the start so the boss doesn't come across as hating him for the sake of it. Also, suspension without pay is quite extreme, especially for four weeks. Where I work, there's not even a workers union to fight for our rights so we get screwed in every way by our employer, but suspensions always come with pay and are never over a week in length. I can't speak for other workplaces, but four weeks does sound too much. Missing four weeks pay for someone most likely on minimum wage could make them homeless."

-- Again, a fair point about Mr. Reeve, he is a bit of a caricature. Still at 39 pages I  hadn't really the time to construct a specific scene to give reason why he dislikes Thomas so much. I though that conveying Thomas to be the bitter, cynical employee from the beginning would be enough of an indication for the audience that Reeve simply doesn't like Thomas because of his surly demeanour and bitter attitude towards his job, no Boss is gonna, you know. This was something I tried to get across in the opening scenes with Thomas and his handling of the students.

Essentially, I wanted to give the impression that Reeve didn't like Thomas before all this started as opposed to setting up a scenario where Thomas somehow pisses off Reeve then bam! the whole Nicole episode begins. I was my belief  that this would come off a little too set up and contrived, if you know what I mean?

At the same time, ya, Reeve is probably too much of a cu?t to him.

In terms of the suspension, ya its harsh, but again I was fuelling it on Reeve's disdain for Thomas. Plus there's every chance that he may be jealous of the fact that this waster is tapping a fit woman like Nicole.

Having said that, I could easily trim it back to a week or two with pay, it wouldn't make a whole pile of difference to the outcome.

"I can't help but think you missed a great opportunity with the ending. When you mentioned the woman was in line behind the wannabes, I was sure it was going to be Nicole's mother who suffers from the same fetish, even more so when you mentioned her age to be in the 40's. I was really expecting Bill to deliver a perfect 10 score of the clubcard line and the woman to start giggling like Nicole did as Thomas watches on. Don't get me wrong, I liked the ending, I just thought that opportunity was there for the taking."

-- I did mull over this for a time after the first draft. Someone else suggested it too and I really thought about it but in the end I felt it would be too much of a coincidence, possibly a little too silly. Now ,I know the pitch of the script is totally ridiculous to begin with but, in my opinion, this would be overstepping it, especially if it were Nicole's mother of all people. A matter of taste I suppose but I will have you know that I did consider something like you mentioned for awhile but ultimately opted against it.

It can always be included as a deleted scene/alternate ending on the 10yr anniversary 7 disc special edition!

Anyway, thanks again for the read and thoughtful comments, much appreciated.

Col.


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ajr
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colkurtz,

Saw all the good press so I wanted to read this. Let me first say that in the short time I've been here this has been the easiest read, which is a testament to your writing style.

Very nice job in the setup and with keeping the story going. Nice re-introduction of Gary who knows just what Nicole wants. As someone said earlier, I didn't really laugh, but I was interested and intrigued enough to digest this quickly and totally.

Agree with what most people said about the narrative - it can be tighter. Then again, even when you are superfluous you write it so well that I almost don't care.  So I would take a scalpel to it rather than an axe.

Having said all that, these are just minor quibbles or suggestions:

You started Thomas out as a self-described misanthrope, so I pictured him at the outset as sort of a less cheery Rik from "The Young Ones".  Granted you have limited time in which to set him up, however I would rather have seen you take some risks with his dialogue as you went along instead of in some instances giving in to the "Clerks" type banter (in my opinion, by the way, the limited interaction with Thomas and Bill rivals or exceeds what Kevin Smith did.  Maybe it's because I'm a fan of how the Brits write their sitcoms).  For example at the bottom of page 20, Thomas says:

THESE MORNING SHIFTS ARE KILLING ME, MAN. GOT TO COVER FOR JEAN THIS EVENING TOO... SHIT.

I would have preferred Thomas say something political here; comment on last night's news, etc.  Then when Bill says his line you would get the humor from the contrast.

Also the ending - it seems that Thomas is now nothing but resigned.  Maybe make him look through the want ads and come across the "Holy Grail" of retail service positions - something better than Best Prices?  Than he and Bill can banter about it somewhat, and the audience is left with the sense that the cycle may start up again.

As I said, very minor quibbles - overall a really strong effort and I enjoyed reading this.

AJR


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Colkurtz8
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Ajr...

Thank you for the read, I'm pleased you were able to get through it without it dragging too much.

Yeah, I'm always trying to trim back the descriptive. I've been fortunate in having received a lot of sound advice from people here before and since posting it, which I have implemented over time to help improve it...hopefully.

I’m not sure what you men about Thomas's character and hoping he would say something political. Did you want him to be deeper, multi-dimensional, reveal something more about him other then his cynicism? I agree, he is rather one sided but like you say, one only has a limited time to set a character up. I had originally intended this to be no more than 25-30 max but I got carried away and this was without ever really delving into Thomas as an individual, outside of his job.

I wanted him to be a "he is what he is", "not much more to him then meets the eye" kind of guy.  He's just a pissed off supermarket employee, who, through a very random & ridiculous way, has attracted a girl way out of his league which in the end he simply can't handle. He's In way over his head and knows it but continues anyway for the obvious carnal impulses, men’s basic urges and all that.

I figured his personality and relations with other characters; the banter with Bill, the altercations with Mr. Reeve would go in tandem with the tone and direction of the piece. Having him veer off into an unrelated matter might disrupt the flow of the piece and contradict Thomas’s persona. Not a given, I know but I wanted to keep it focused, I will be the first to champion the occasional off-plot strand of conversation in a script a long a sits entertaining and in a secondary way helps us understand the character more. It’s what the too often cited (and I realise the irony here) QT built his reputation with in is first two film.

"Also the ending - it seems that Thomas is now nothing but resigned."

-- Again, this is something I wanted, he's a defeated man, a guy whose learned a lesson. Been through the wars so to speak, its understandable that’s his libido has taken a dip after what’s happened, doesn’t want anything to do with hot, fetished, sexed up, imposing woman for the time being. Others have commented on Thomas's resignation but I see it as staying true to his lay about, careless attitude along with the experience he’s just had..

"and the audience is left with the sense that the cycle may start up again."

-- While I can appreciate the merits of this cyclical impression to leave on the audience, it’s definitely not something I wanted. People watch enough of those mindless, painfully repetitious, round in circle soaps without this conforming to it. Some have suggested this could be expanded into a series, something episodic, as it has that sort of sitcom feel to it and while I've mixed feeling over that opinion, I will admit I got that feeling too while writing it. But I see it as a story within itself, no indication of continuation, that’s it. In other words, to quote Dylan "beyond here lies nothin'"


Anyway enough of my raving, thanks again for taking this on, and leaving intelligent and thoughtful remarks, I owe you a read, bud. If there is anything you've done that you'd like me to take a look at, just ask.

Col.


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ajr
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Colkurtz,

Agreed that the piece is very good as it stands, and of course with a higher level of material all we can bring you are nuances.  As I read Thomas' character I kept thinking "intelligent underachiever", which I guess is what Kevin Smith was going for (and, at least in my mind, achieved only in part) with "Clerks".

That said, there's not much you can do in that area at all if you whittle down to near 30 pages.  I'd be curious to see what something like this looks like at 60 pages?

Unfortunately all I have up at the moment is a feature in the comedy section (Grand Avenue), though I should have a short posted any day now.  It's in the "comedy lab" and so far I've re-written up to page 15 and ditched the POV opening. Still be interested to see if a good writer thinks there's enough "funny" in it though.

Let me know if you have a full-length script posted because I'd like to work that into my weekend schedule.

AJR


Click HERE to read JOHN LENNON'S HEAVEN https://preview.tinyurl.com/John-Lennon-s-Heaven-110-pgs/
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JBrow
Posted: June 6th, 2010, 11:11pm Report to Moderator
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As far as the script goes I enjoyed it massively. But, as I've stated in a few post, I'm new to the script game and wouldn't feel comfortable giving criticism, good or bad.

But on the "why is everyone smoking weed" question, this I know about. So fyi, in 2006 the FBI did an undercover/drug abuse immunity investigation to attempt to find out how many ppl in the U.S. use Cannibus in one form or another. after 6 months they estimated that a whopping 60% of ppl between 14 and 45 use some form of "weed" at least on a casual basis (casual= same as "social drinker" AKA weekends, holidays, special occasions) However of this 60% only between 13 and 14% fell into the daily smokers spot. This has nothing to do with your script but it seemed like a question that could come up again and again as drug use has become common in all forms of entertainment.

But Back to the point great story couldn't move till I was finished. can't wait to see more
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Colkurtz8
Posted: June 7th, 2010, 9:37am Report to Moderator
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Jbrow

Thank you for checking this out, I know it’s a lengthy read to get through, glad you enjoyed it though.

I wouldn't feel uncomfortable about giving your two cents, it’s just an opinion after all and everyone is entitled to them, people here understand that.

As far as the weed thing goes, yeah it’s everywhere and has inevitably permeated into all art disciplines. Not that I'm underestimating the capabilities of Federal Bureau of Investigation!!! (cue intimidating music) but how would they carry out a covert operation like that and obtain accurate results.

Anyway thanks again for checking this out, let me know if you have anything you want me to read

Col.


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Craiger6
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Hey Col.,

I finally got around to reading this one, and I'm glad I did.  I thought you did a terrific job.  I'm only about half way through the comments, but look forward to reading the rest.  

It's much different than your other work, and for that reason, at least in the beginning, I was waiting for it to take a darker, more serious turn.  I'm kind of glad that it didn't though, as I think this works very well as is, and shows your range as a writer.  On the other hand, similar to your other pieces, I think you've done a fine job at developing these characters.  As someone else mentioned (I think Tonka), Nicole was the scene stealer/driving force here, but I also think that Thomas was very well developed.  I think we could all relate to him at some point in our lives (or at least wish we could, lucky bastard.  I'd trade a fat lip for a couple of weeks on the Nicole Express any day of the week, and twice on Sundays).

In your message you seemed to be concerned about the length, and I see that in some of your earlier posts regarding this piece, that you were concerned about length.  I can only speak for myself, but I read this in one sitting, and it was a page turner for me.  That said, yes 40 pages may scare off some people, but it seems that you've still managed to get more than enough reviews (positive ones at that).  Could it probably be trimmed a bit?  Yeah, I guess, but you can keep going back to any script and tinkering with it till the cows come home.  As long as you are comfortable with it, I say let it ride.

Below are a few things I picked out.  It's not a lot, especially for a 40 page script, and I think that is a testament to the job you've done with this piece.


P. 7 THOMAS  ï¿½Am...I work in a supermarket. Not exactly the holy grail of uniformed positions.�

Nice line.

P. 9 �The woman writing, half naked on a bed couldn�t be any younger then mid to late 40s.�

Not sure if this was supposed to be � the woman WRITHING? (EDIT: Actually I hope it's supposed to be writhing or else Col., you are either into some kinky stuff, or really were meant to be a writer if a naked woman writing is your thing - haha).

P. 10 BILL (V.O.) She never said. I told her that you were on holidays and you�ll be in on Friday for the night shift.  She said �OK� and left...that was it really.�

Not a big deal, but the conversation, and the scene ended a bit abruptly here for me.  I dunno, I kind of like the chemistry between Bill and Thomas.  Kind of like two guys who are on the same wave length that lean on each other to get through their mundane jobs.  I think you could have used this opportunity to inject a little more levity.  Maybe the chick in the porno starts getting busy and then Bill abruptly hangs up or something.  I dunno, just a thought.

P. 14 - A framed POSTER of �Raging Bull� is stuck on the wall. Jake Le Motta has just knocked his opponent to the ground. A fearsome look is etched on Robert De Niro�s face.�

Should be Jake LaMotta � you made him into a Frenchman!!!  For shame, Col.
Anyway, interesting approach you took in describing this poster.  One the one hand, you refer to him as Jake LaMotta, and on the other you refer to DeNiro.  Just curious if this was intentional or not?  Should they both be the same, or are they okay as is?

P. 16 � THOMAS - I can safely say that line has never elicited such a response before...from anybody, ever.�

Haha.  This chick is nuts.  I think Pia raised a good point, and I'm not sure if you addressed this in your comments, but I would have liked to get a bit of insight into why she is so hot for these types of men.  You were probably concerned about space and decided to leave that out.  Maybe make a trade and cut something to include a little more backstory for her.  

P. 30 - GARY (CONT�D) You may have swooned her with this place, your fancy uniform.

Ha, another good one for me.

The ending was fine for me, but I see that you originally had something else in mind.  I'm a bit torn about it as its currently constructed.  

Let's agree, that the whole premise of the story (i.e. every guy's dream) is a bit far fetched, which is fine for a script.  Part of me would have liked to have seen a tired, grumpy, Thomas finding him right back in a similar situation with the MILF.  I mean, yeah, I imagine he would have left Nicole's house swearing up and down and promising himself that he'll never get involved in a nother situation like that ever again.  Then he, like you, me, and pretty much 90% of the grown male population in the world, would have cooled off, and done a cost/benefit analysis of the situation, and realized that even with the bloody lip, he kind of came out ahead.

So, in short, I'm a bit torn between him deciding not to get involved the second time around, and having the woman end up in Bill's aisle.  Not a big deal, but I could see it going either way.  Part of me thinks that having him do the same thing all over again might fit a little better with the overall feel of the piece.

Anyway, nice job Col., I really enjoyed it and look forward, as always, to reading more.  Best of luck.

CR


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Craiger6
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Quoted from Andrew

My suggestion regards the series idea is that you could use Thomas and Bill as a vessel for a succession of stories in subsequent 30 minute episodes, utilising the quirks of supermarket shoppers. Here Thomas is totally used by a vamp, and this is owing to his otherwise unremarkable job - but, it becomes remarkable 'cos of an unhinged girl. Not sure how developed Thomas and Bill are in your mind, but if these guys are strong characters, I really think you could make this work as a series.


Col., just reading through some of these comments, and I think Andrew raises a good point here.  I see that you aren't too keen on the series format, but as I mentioned, I enjoyed Bill and Thomas' repoire (sp?).  I'm sure others did as well, this might provided you with an opportunity to expand on Bill's character.  And, as you mentioned, you did have a lot of fun writing this, so might be worth a shot.


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Colkurtz8
Posted: August 15th, 2010, 5:07am Report to Moderator
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Craig

Thank you for your comments, sorry for the delay in responding.

First off, I'm glad you enjoyed the script, it’s becoming more and more apparent that we have similar tastes here and that's cool. Yeah, I would've preferred to have gotten this around the 30 page mark but once I write something I half believe in, I become attached to it thus really struggle to excise the stuff that's in there because I want it as opposed to needing it. Basically, your classically vain, self indulgent mentality.

At 40 pages its neither a short or a feature but fu?k it, I enjoyed the writing process and most people seemed to like it. Plus, I don't envisage developing it any further as I chose to leave it as it is a long time ago now...but I appreciate your encouraging words.


Quoted from Craiger6

I think we could all relate to him at some point in our lives (or at least wish we could, lucky bastard.  I'd trade a fat lip for a couple of weeks on the Nicole Express any day of the week, and twice on Sundays).


--   yup, I hear ya, man. Although Gary is a dangerous (albeit, complete buffoon) sonofabitch who I wouldn’t want to pi?s off too much. As males, we generally tend to follow or dicks into most decision making, its instinct...but someone like him (and her) may just intimidate you and make one think twice about such choices in future situations.


Quoted from Craiger6

P. 9 �The woman writing, half naked on a bed couldn�t be any younger then mid to late 40s.�

Not sure if this was supposed to be � the woman WRITHING? (EDIT: Actually I hope it's supposed to be writhing or else Col., you are either into some kinky stuff, or really were meant to be a writer if a naked woman writing is your thing - haha).


-- Ha ha, no, a mistake on my part. It is meant to be "writhing", good catch, no such fetish here to report, sir.


Quoted from Craiger6

P. 10 BILL (V.O.) She never said. I told her that you were on holidays and you�ll be in on Friday for the night shift.  She said �OK� and left...that was it really.�

Not a big deal, but the conversation, and the scene ended a bit abruptly here for me.  I dunno, I kind of like the chemistry between Bill and Thomas.  Kind of like two guys who are on the same wave length that lean on each other to get through their mundane jobs.  I think you could have used this opportunity to inject a little more levity.  Maybe the chick in the porno starts getting busy and then Bill abruptly hangs up or something.  I dunno, just a thought.


-- I see what you mean and I like your idea of Bill getting distracted by the porn thus ending the call. My thinking though was that we had gotten all the information we needed by then. Nicole had been back looking for Thomas so I reckoned it was time to jump straight away to that night and keep things rolling.


Quoted from Craiger6

P. 14 - A framed POSTER of �Raging Bull� is stuck on the wall. Jake Le Motta has just knocked his opponent to the ground. A fearsome look is etched on Robert De Niro�s face.�

Should be Jake LaMotta � you made him into a Frenchman!!!  For shame, Col.
Anyway, interesting approach you took in describing this poster.  One the one hand, you refer to him as Jake LaMotta, and on the other you refer to DeNiro.  Just curious if this was intentional or not?  Should they both be the same, or are they okay as is?


-- Correct, good call but since I consider De Niro's performance in that film to be the best I've ever seen and I have the actual poster stuck up in my room, I arrogantly assume that everyone else should know the film too. So I figured switching up the names like that wouldn't confuse anybody. Tis probably incorrect in a technical sense but I wanted to drop both names in there. Which makes my “Le” typo all the more embarrassing, well spotted.


Quoted from Craiger6

P. 16 � THOMAS - I can safely say that line has never elicited such a response before...from anybody, ever.�

Haha.  This chick is nuts.  I think Pia raised a good point, and I'm not sure if you addressed this in your comments, but I would have liked to get a bit of insight into why she is so hot for these types of men.  You were probably concerned about space and decided to leave that out.  Maybe make a trade and cut something to include a little more backstory for her.  


-- Yeah, I remember her comment (I thought I answered it directly, apologies Pia if, on the off-chance, you happen to be reading this) Page constraints was one factor but more so was the desire to leave it unexplained. She digs men in uniform and especially the line, it’s just a penchant of hers which I didn't really want, or felt required justification. Of course, if this were to be expanded into a feature (I can just imagine one of those derivative, cheesy, hi-concept packaged rom-coms that saturate the mainstream market these days where everything is wrapped up in a nice bow at the end and the once dislikeable protagonist experiences a “change” or some sort of "transformation"...it gives me headaches just thinking about it) then it would probably have to be addressed but I don't think the piece suffers from it as it stands.


Quoted from Craiger6

The ending was fine for me, but I see that you originally had something else in mind.  I'm a bit torn about it as its currently constructed.  

Let's agree, that the whole premise of the story (i.e. every guy's dream) is a bit far fetched, which is fine for a script.  Part of me would have liked to have seen a tired, grumpy, Thomas finding him right back in a similar situation with the MILF.  I mean, yeah, I imagine he would have left Nicole's house swearing up and down and promising himself that he'll never get involved in a nother situation like that ever again.  Then he, like you, me, and pretty much 90% of the grown male population in the world, would have cooled off, and done a cost/benefit analysis of the situation, and realized that even with the bloody lip, he kind of came out ahead.

So, in short, I'm a bit torn between him deciding not to get involved the second time around, and having the woman end up in Bill's aisle.  Not a big deal, but I could see it going either way.  Part of me thinks that having him do the same thing all over again might fit a little better with the overall feel of the piece.


-- Oh yeah, the concept is completely ridiculous, totally tongue in cheek. I wanted to set that stall out early, this is not to be taken seriously in the slightest. The whole car bashing scene with Gary was an example where I just went all out with the absurdity of it. I mean, if Gary really cares about Nicole what the fu?k is he doing! It's basically a case of Thomas who we can relate to, as you say, a normal bloke stuck in a dead end job who gets sucked into the world of this not-so-normal, freaky couple. He's in way over his head here and simply not cut-out for the unpredictable behaviour of Nicole or Gary. That although he bit?hed about his humdrum existence, when offered a "walk on the wild side" he wasn't able for it and yearned for that simple life again.

And this leads me on to your other point about the ending and would Thomas turn down another potential woman like Nicole. Personally, I believe it works better that he does, that he has learned something (see, even I can't get away from the "protagonist must undergo a change" shtick) from his whirlwind romance with Nicole. I mean, on paper it sounds like a sweet deal, a hot, sexually adventurous woman is interested in you...and for sex, nothing more but the comedic (I hoped) lesson would be that despite these overwhelming carnal positives...the hassle and in part, unseen complications which invariable came with Nicole have turned Thomas off...for the time being at least. He now knows better than to fall for the “come on” eyes and suggestive gestures. Bill, however, is going to go in head first due to his preference for older woman as we seen in the porn watching scene. He may have seen firsthand the precarious situations Thomas got himself tangled up in but it’s that aforementioned following your dick propensity typical of alpha males coming out on top.

I'd like to think that if Bill got with this new older woman (I know, I'm being very presumptuous here as she only flicked her eyes at Thomas and changed queues but let’s fantasize, shall we) their conversations may mimic what we heard during the script except with Bill waxing lyrical about his sexual exploits and Thomas, the war weary veteran, telling him to watch out.

I do know where you and others are coming from but I guess I wanted to throw Bill a bone (no pun intended) too instead of the thing going around in circles with Thomas again.

And yeah, I completely agree with Andrew's comments, although this admittedly has a sitcom/series type feel, it doesn't follow the multi stranded plot structure of such shows primarily since I never intended it to be a sitcom/series. I really only have one story going on here and it still took up 39 pages so you can imagine what kind of bloated piece I'd have if I tried to wedge in a concurrent story for Bill and/or Gary. Like I said, at this time I've no motivation to develop that relationship as I'm working on other stuff, maybe some time down the line, who knows.

Thanks again for taking the time Craig, really appreciate it. Let me know if you got anything new coming up.

Cheers.

Col.


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RodriguezFruitbat
Posted: April 1st, 2018, 11:28pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Howard,

Thanks for pointing this one out, it was a fun read. I loved the setting and the premise. You have a knack for characters.

I only had a couple little thoughts. On the first page you introduce a ton of characters (maybe 13?), which I struggled to keep track of, then I realized that several of the capitalized character don't seem to be speaking roles. If they are really just background characters I'd spend less time describing them and not give them character names. That way the reader will focus on the important characters.

I scanned through the previous comments and see a recurring theme of either expanding this or tightening the script up to around 30 pages. It's totally subjective, but I feel that there is merit to the idea of trimming it. I wasn't distracted at all by the descriptions and felt the writing was easy enough to breeze through. Currently the story ends where it began with a small punchline at the end with Bill and the woman. This structure feels right for an episodic type piece, like one of many snapshots in the lives of these two clerks. As a short film I personally feel like it could end earlier with the payoff being him losing her back to the ex-boyfriend. It would feel tighter and end with a bigger punchline. Just opinion though, it's already fine as is.

This reminded me of a couple similar movies (can't remembrance them off the top of my head) but with the right director I think it could be a really fun watch.

Thanks!
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Colkurtz8
Posted: April 6th, 2018, 6:15am Report to Moderator
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Rodriguez

Thanks for the read, glad you got a couple of laughs out of it.


Quoted from RodriguezFruitbat
I only had a couple little thoughts. On the first page you introduce a ton of characters (maybe 13?), which I struggled to keep track of, then I realized that several of the capitalized character don't seem to be speaking roles. If they are really just background characters I'd spend less time describing them and not give them character names. That way the reader will focus on the important characters.


- Well, I give them names like HUSBAND, WIFE, SLACKER, etc but not actual names. Their descriptions are minimal too, sometimes non-existent so that they won’t seem important. It’s just a quick montage of the customers to set the scene. Even the group of college kids, who feature heavily in the opening scene, aren’t given names as we won’t see them again either.


Quoted from RodriguezFruitbat
I scanned through the previous comments and see a recurring theme of either expanding this or tightening the script up to around 30 pages. It's totally subjective, but I feel that there is merit to the idea of trimming it.


- Yeah, it’s an awkward length, I had the idea, wrote it and this is where it landed. I don’t really plan to expand or trim it at the moment.


Quoted from RodriguezFruitbat
Currently the story ends where it began with a small punchline at the end with Bill and the woman. This structure feels right for an episodic type piece, like one of many snapshots in the lives of these two clerks. As a short film I personally feel like it could end earlier with the payoff being him losing her back to the ex-boyfriend. It would feel tighter and end with a bigger punchline. Just opinion though, it's already fine as is.


- Yeah, you’re on the money, it has more of a sitcom-ish episodic structure where things come, pretty much, full circle at the end. Not the most suitable for a short script, although the length kind of rules out that viability anyway. Either way, that feature does show up in some of my scripts, where characters go through something, big or small, yet arrive back where they began, with nothing only perhaps some greater insight or an experience under their belt, I’m drawn to that idea as it happens in life a lot, certainly more than big epiphanies or life altering encounters. I know this is an exaggerated scenario but the experience of a person coming into your life, turning it upside down and leaving again does occur...and then you find yourself back to square one.

Plus, I like ending it with Thomas (even though Nicole has treated him like shit) ready to go headlong into it all over again when he sees another woman showing interest in a similar way.

Thanks again for taking the time to check this out.

Col.


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