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On another note, I agree with Dec about the Bundy-approach. From what I have read about them, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy and - to a different extent - Charles Manson, all had the ability to "talk the pants off their victims" so to speak or in Mason's case, "the pants off his followers". All of them were insane (clinically, not legally), yes, but none of the were stupid - far from it. Different serial killers use different approaches, Dahmer for example - who's an entirely different can of worms - did not had the charm or the verbal skills that Bundy, Gacy and Manson had.
My point is, if you intend to use Bundy as a template of sorts for Logan then you have to show that, both through his actions and his dialogue. I think you're pretty much there with the action but the dialogue needs more finesse to really hit it out of the park. What you have now is, in my opinion, too cheesy (whether intentional or not) for a victim to fall for it. Just saying, bro.
Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load
PRC is a series that a few of us had written for. Info came over from Duane Craig over at Conflict Scripts.
The prime intent was to create some chilling scenarios, but not to use graphic violence.
By the way, Jeff,
My perception is off on the "spirit of Soulshadows". I can't shake the feeling I get where it's got a spooky vibe, but isn't heading too much into the grizzly mode.
I remember Michael Shelton's Ferris wheel script and that's the tone that I imagine when I think of the series now.
Anyways, Jeff, having read some more in this thread, I think that I've learned something from you writing this script.
The mention of "hitmen scripts". I never heard that term before.
And I definitely feel that the key issue, though we know it's true, for all of us, although we forget it, is the suspension of disbelief.
Also, some kinds of things we read we don't really suspend disbelief, but we engage with it. Like some kinds of poetry.
Is it wrong that I took pleasure in all this stuff happeing to Packer fans?
I read the script, sat on it for a bit, then started reading through the comments, and I gotta be honest and say that this is a hard script for me to wrap my hand around.
On one hand, it works. I enjoyed the story, and even though it toes the line of being a basic serial killer/abduction script, it kept my interest.
On the other hand, it doesn't seem like a Soulshadows script. To me, and you mentioned it in one of your earlier posts, it's more of a Masters of Horror script. It's got that goriness to it that's very common in their episodes. I like what I've seen of that series, which is probably why I liked this as well. It just seemed odd to remove the SS tag from my mind and look at it on its own.
The Tanis part came off the same way. It just had that "gross" feel, which is fairly uncommon for her. It did fit in with the tone of the script though, so kudos for that Bert.
I read this right after Jordan's, which has a fair amount of gore in it as well, but I think the main separation with that one was that the gore was based on something historical, and more emphasis was placed on the item (locket). Here, the key was minimal. Enough to qualify as the item, but could definitely benefit from being used just a little bit more.
Anyway, as a standalone script, I think you did a good job.
Regarding screenrider's production comment, I don't think anyone is pitching these anywhere. Nevermind the fact that most of them would be damn expensive to produce.
Well done. Gerat read. As always, I have a few comments:
I live just south of Green Bay and can attest to the accuracy of the location description in your script! Go Pack. The dialog was suitably cheesy for this cheesehead from Sconsin.
I liked the first half of the story and I liked the gory last half of the story -- I just wasn't sure they went together. If I read the first half I would not predict the last half. And vice versa.
That's not bad, just an observation. You're the writer, you take us where you want us to go. And boy, you took us there!
I am not sure that Emma needed two wingwoman on this.
Your transition between halves was neatly done with the WHAM of the lumber which was cool how you had it timed to occur at a page turn. Whether intentional or not it was very cool. More so because it interrupted the word stunning.
The intro of Maia was well done but too late in the story. Isn't there some rule or some warning about introducing a key figure in the third act of a story. It always comes off as deux et machina. Maybe a scene of her earlier in the story even if mysterious would help.
BTW, a story on Maia as the protector would be something to consider.
I think the "torture porn" genre as it's so derogatorily called nowadays can be excellent if treaded with care (Martyrs is a good example) but this was not only sickening, even for me -- it was also a little bit boring. Been there, done that....so to speak. Don't call the cops on me!
My main problem with this is that, even with its content, it failed to disturb me. It was gross, sure, but not once was I disturbed. It truly felt more like a fetish video than a Horror. Hell, we don't even see Emma die.
The only visual which was mildly effective to me as I was reading were the woman's scalps.
I did make a few notes as I was reading, so as to help you improve on this on the areas that I feel need reworking a little bit.
- Characters: too stereotypically Wisconsin IMO. I've been living there for around seven months, and I haven't seen one cheese hat yet.
- Character interactions: Completely unrealistic. Not even the most naive woman would fall for Logan's crap. Not to the extent he pushed it, at least.
- Dialogue: Not bad, but it felt stilted on ocassions. Minor things. Overall, it was decent.
- Plot structure: Bad. Never introduce a character by the third act without some foreshadowing as to its appearance; especially in a Short piece [and when said character is a supernatural (?) entity of some sort]. It makes for unengaging reading. I am, of course, talking about Maia. There was no protagonist here we could root for, either. Emma dies too soon, Logan isn't interesting enough -- just a run-of-the-mill psychopath, and Maia is introduced too late.
-Horror factor: Not enough. You had some nice visuals, but like I said -- it feels more like a fetish video. I am not counting Logan's demise here, because it was a revenge kill. I'd say a 5/10.
I'm sorry for being negative. But you have helped me a lot in my writing with your honest reviews and comments time and time again, and I think you deserve equal treatment.
I'm sorry for being negative. But you have helped me a lot in my writing with your honest reviews and comments time and time again, and I think you deserve equal treatment.
--Julio
I feel the same way.
I feel that you, Jeff, are a very special and intelligent person.
I keep coming back to this, and I don't know what it is, but I feel like giving you hell because I feel like I am connected with you and I need to give you as much hell as I give myself-- which is way too much.
Sucks to be me.
Anyways, just please take care of yourself these next few weeks.
I'm going to try and post regularly when we're on the cruise, but I have no idea what services will be available to us; so just know, that you're in my thoughts if some weird thing happens and I can't connect.
Seriously Jeff,
If I was hard, I know we need this. And for whatever... Just send it back to me.
As you know, I don’t like graphic, so for most of this I “covered my eyes.”
Here is a revenge tale that the only predictable part for me was that Logan was the killer. Just as soon as the serial killer was brought up, he’s the guy. The avenger was not so expected. The main thread was there all the way to the end, which was good, and I guess fits this “Twilight Zone” thing going on here.
But there is one huge problem for me, Emma was not alone. Emma had two friends who saw Logan. So just as soon as Logan showed back up to tailgate for his next catch, would not cops be there as well? I think that’s a hole big enough to drive a forty-five foot yacht through.
I thought you could make Emma the avenger. Make her and her friends just a bit off, like they are avenging angels or something. The serial killer talk could go on, maybe they discuss what they’d do if they ever met the guy, you know, in that macho girl kind of way. Each wants to go with Logan and maybe they cast lots in front of him to see who gets to play. Wouldn’t Logan think that was weird, but digs it anyway? When Logan’s revealed as the killer, we’ll say, “I knew it,” and then keep your twist.
As you know, I don’t like graphic, so for most of this I “covered my eyes.”
Here is a revenge tale that the only predictable part for me was that Logan was the killer. Just as soon as the serial killer was brought up, he’s the guy. The avenger was not so expected. The main thread was there all the way to the end, which was good, and I guess fits this “Twilight Zone” thing going on here.
But there is one huge problem for me, Emma was not alone. Emma had two friends who saw Logan. So just as soon as Logan showed back up to tailgate for his next catch, would not cops be there as well? I think that’s a hole big enough to drive a forty-five foot yacht through.
I thought you could make Emma the avenger. Make her and her friends just a bit off, like they are avenging angels or something. The serial killer talk could go on, maybe they discuss what they’d do if they ever met the guy, you know, in that macho girl kind of way. Each wants to go with Logan and maybe they cast lots in front of him to see who gets to play. Wouldn’t Logan think that was weird, but digs it anyway? When Logan’s revealed as the killer, we’ll say, “I knew it,” and then keep your twist.
Maschlom ha?
Peace.
I wish I was this brilliant.
I need to take some time and study when I get back.
Alright Jeff, sorry it took so long to get my review in. Here we go-
This is the first of the Soul Shadows scripts that I have read, so I hope I'm not missing any story or anything by not reading the others first.
I'm just gonna jot down notes as I read...
I HATE the title page. Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this(didn't check the others posts), but it is incredibly distracting. I know it's part of a series, but this isn't necessary. Not a good first impression...
On page 1 you use "We follow the sound...." That's the same as giving camera directions and that is a no-no.
I'm sorry, but every time Tanis talked I laughed. I just got done watching Star Wars: Episode 1, and Tanis reminds me of Jar Jar Binks. Ha ha.
Ooh, you score points with the Green Bay Packers reference. I'm a huge football fan, so that instantly caught my eye.
Not digging the dialog between the girls so far, man. It’s a little stiff and unnatural. It just doesn’t quite flow right.
I’m having trouble keeping up with who is who. All of these girls sound the same.
If a killer’s on the loose, shouldn’t security be tight? Why would the girls be joking about it? Just doesn’t seem right to me.
Oh God. All of my other complaints were minor compared to this one. When Logan tells Emma how much he’s “attracted to her”, I cringed. Terrible dialog there man. Ouch. I know you can do better than that.
I like the “cheesy” joke. That was actually kinda clever. Ha ha.
I can’t buy that Emma would fall for some random guy this fast. It’s just so unnatural and unrealistic.
The “cheesy” pun was funny the first time, it was painful the second time.
Quick question… if his name is Logan, why does he call himself Tyler? Just wondering.
You need to say that Kaylee is dead. Don’t want to confuse people into thinking that she might still be alive.
Bottom of page 12, you refer to Logan as Tyler in a description. I think this should be changed. Am I wrong? I really like how Logan has Emma trapped. The “self scalping” threat is brilliant and pretty brutal.
I cringed again, but this time it was a good thing. The nipple biting scene would be hard to watch on film. Good job, man. You actually creeped me out a little.
So you’ve pulled a “Death Proof” on me, huh? Switching to a new cast of victims midway through the story. That’s cool. I like that. It helps build tension.
Oh no… not another damn “cheesy” joke. That’s awful, Jeff. Really, it is.
I really think you need to develop Maia’s character as much, if not more, as you did Emma’s. Actually, considering how poorly developed Emma was, you should go back and develop BOTH characters more. For what it’s worth, you actually did a pretty decent job with Logan.
Maia’s “abduction” is the exact same as Emma’s. I know that this shows that Logan has been doing this for awhile and that he has a pattern that he likes to follow, but it seriously lacks suspense. Switch it up some.
Gruesome shit at the end man, but you’re moving through the meat pf you story too fast. You are way to focused on Emma’s character, as her part lasts 17 pages, where as Maia’s lasts only 8 pages. You need to flip this. Have Maia let Logan fuck with her a bit. Let him think he is in control. As it is, it’s way to fast and unsatisfying.
Really liked the end with Tanis. That was pretty cool.
All finished. Overall I gotta say that I’m pretty disappointed, Jeff. I really wanted to like this and wanted to praise it, but I just feel that wouldn’t be fair. You deserve honesty. I like the concept behind this, but really feel like you need to do an overhaul for this thing to even start to reach its full potential. Sorry if this seems overly negative, I just know you can do so much better. Let me know if you ever do a heavy rewrite.
Just had a second look at my review and wow, that's kinda negative.
Thought I'd throw some positives your way.
Your format is great and you are really good with description. I could picture everything very well. You and I should collaborate on a horror piece sometime. We'd make a hell of a team.
I think your biggest flaws are your dialog and your characters. What I always do is speak the dialog out loud as I write it. You can normally tell if something won't work once you hear it out loud.
The three girls in the beginning could have been switched around in any order and it wouldn't have affected the story in any way. Maia was barely any different(until the end, of course). You did a decent job with Logan though. I don't really have any tips on how to improve your characters as I'm not to great at writing them either(which is why I mostly stick to slashers, stereo-types are accepted in those types of movies ).
One last thing... please note that I wasn't extra hard on you because of the nature of your reviews(I've read some where you really come down on the writer, although you are always fair). You always give me pretty good reviews and seem to like most of my stuff, so I'd have no reason to "get back at you" by giving you a hard, negative review. But like I said earlier... A negative-but-honest review is much better than a positive-but-false review.
I'm sorry for being negative. But you have helped me a lot in my writing with your honest reviews and comments time and time again, and I think you deserve equal treatment.
--Julio
I feel the same way.
I feel that you, Jeff, are a very special and intelligent person.
I keep coming back to this, and I don't know what it is, but I feel like giving you hell because I feel like I am connected with you and I need to give you as much hell as I give myself-- which is way too much.
Sucks to be me-- and you.
Anyways, just please take care of yourself these next few weeks.
Bounce back and know we're together in this ship of ni- dreams.
I'm going to try and post regularly when we're on the cruise, but I have no idea what services will be available to us; so just know, that you're in my thoughts if some weird thing happens and I can't connect.
I feel that you, Jeff, are a very special and intelligent person.
I keep coming back to this, and I don't know what it is, but I feel like giving you hell because I feel like I am connected with you and I need to give you as much hell as I give myself-- which is way too much.
Sucks to be me-- and you.
Anyways, just please take care of yourself these next few weeks.
Bounce back and know we're together in this ship of ni- dreams.
I'm going to try and post regularly when we're on the cruise, but I have no idea what services will be available to us; so just know, that you're in my thoughts if some weird thing happens and I can't connect.
Sandra
Sandra,
Can you give the guy a chance to respond? I think you've made your point here, and you're starting to drive it a little too far into the ground.
I HATE the title page. Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this(didn't check the others posts), but it is incredibly distracting. I know it's part of a series, but this isn't necessary. Not a good first impression...
If you had read any others in the series, you would notice they all have a title page - both series. Right or wrong, it's a traditional sort of thing for the Soulshadows series. I can't see how it could possibly be distracting once you page past it. And you might think that I am defending it because I make the page - nup - wasn't even my idea. I would rather not have to do the extra work but I think it creates a unity for the scripts in the series, identifying them immediately as a matched set.