Hey Jeff, finally got around to reading your script.

I had only skimmed a few posts.

My initial thoughts were if you sat me down to watch this without telling me what it's about.  I'd think it was a romantic film.  You did a good job going from lovable Tyler to crazy Logan.

I didn't get the supernatural vibe but horror instead.  Logan kind of reminded me of Jack The Ripper.

I think if you reduced the first twelve to six and started off with horror straight off the bat, then that would of been good.  Maybe a snippet of what's to come for Emma, with Logan & Kaylee?  What does he do with these cut of body parts, eat them or keep them as trophies, or something else?

I also think it would have been better for Logan to pick up Maia from a different location rather than outside in the K-Mart parking lot.  If Logan keeps picking these girls up in the same place, it would raise some concerns?

I liked when Maia stabs and leaves the key in Logan's chest, that was good.

Overall, I thought it was a good effort although it could of done with some more of supernatural elements.

I enjoyed Tanis again, can't wait for the script.  I wonder how many more SS scripts are to go?

All the best,


Javier

Quoted from jayrex I wonder how many more SS scripts are to go?

There are three:  Next from "itmightbeorange" (her real name escapes me now); after that is Gabe, or "Mr. Ripley"; and finally, my own.

Last season we had several members "drop out".  I expected the same thing to happen this time -- only nobody did.  Every member who committed to a script produced a script -- which is pretty great and pretty odd at the same time.

So, 13 episodes all told.

I am excited about the Tanis script -- my first original, posted piece of "for-fun" writing in about two years.

I am also going to "get my Balt on" and assure you that it is very, very good haha.

Hey Javier, thanks for the read and notes.

Cool , glad the beginning worked the way it was supposed to.  I like the long, drawn out intro, and then, WHAM, change things up drastically.

Yeah, this is definitely much more horror than supernatural.  As far as I understood it, Soul Shadows needed an item in Tannis’ possession that was found on a dead character, and there needed to be supernatural elements. Maia was my supernatural element.  A few have said that my script didn’t follow along with the Soul Shadows theme, so maybe I misunderstood something along the way.  Who knows, it’s my interpretation of what Soul Shadows should be…or could be, I guess.

I actually kind of like your idea.  I could easily have started with a 1 page intro, showing Kaylee chained up in the basement, but not shown Logan.  Kind of how Hostel started in the actual torture chamber, but didn’t reveal anything else.  But, by doing that, I would have lost the effect of first seeing the basement when we know Emma is in there.  It’s a great idea though, and I appreciate it!

The only reason Logan slices off the girls breasts is because they don’t allow him to do as he pleases with them.  They cry, scream, etc, so he basically decides if they’re not going to allow him to make them his sex slave (so to speak), he needs to get rid of what’s making him so horny…their breasts.  And eventually, they die due to loss of blood, as well as the fact that all 3 actually pulled their own scalp off, in the process of trying to escape.  So, no, he doesn’t eat them or save them or anything like that.

You’re probably right about Logan needing to use a different pickup spot each time.  I’ve already decided to use a different car each time.  There are numerous tail gating spots in and around Lambeau Field, the K Mart may be the biggest, but I could use Kroll’s, the actual parking lot in Lambeau, or any front lawn party going on.  Another good suggestion, Javier!  Thanks.

Glad you seemed to like it.  Thanks again for the great feedback!

Jeff, I cannot believe you did a Soul shadows. After all the ass ripping you've done of those SS scripts that I've read you've officially joined the clan.

I enjoyed this. Yes it was cheesy dialogue, but fit the theme. There are some major plot holes that were mentioned in previous posts. No biggy IMO for a short.

Major Kudos on the women scalping themselves to try to get away. Although, if they couldn't get their hands free, what good would it do them to pull their heads away from the wall. If you had more space, you could tease them with a key they could bite with their mouthes to get free.

Again, thoroughly enjoyed this. nice work man...

james

Hey James, what's going on, man?  Haven't seen you around for awhile.

Yeah, you're right...I ripped alot of these, but then again, I rip alot of script, period.  I don't do it to be an ass or anything.  I merely say what I feel and try to offer advice and help, etc.  I'm just a picky motherfiucker, I guess.

The deal with the girls scalping themselves is basically that they're so tormented, they pretty much lose it.  I think when you're in a situation like that, you aren't thinking logically.  You don't realize at the time, that even though you get your head free, you're still not going anywhere.  It's more about just being able to move their heads around...see what's around them, etc., than actually achieving freedom.

Thanks for teh read and notes...always appreciate it.  Hope all is well.

Jeff
I finally got around to checking this out. I read it first then listened to iscript.

First off, I must admit that I’m not a big supernatural fan, seen way to many sub-standard paranormal/psychological films/TV Shows to leave me with little faith in the genre...although I did love “Poltergeist” when I was younger, freaked the absolute sh?t out of me.

To get it out of the way, I didn’t take note of technical errors, formatting issues, typos, etc. Simply because 1) I don’t think you are going to go changing much since it’s part of the series and has already being aurally produced, so to speak 2) You are known, (notoriously among SS members) for extremely clean, professional writing, the old adage of “Don’t tell a priest how to say mass” comes to mind. So I left that department well enough alone.

Anyway, in terms of the script, I had mixed feelings on this, both good and bad. Unfortunately, overall, my impressions are leaning more to the latter. I see you’ve (rightfully) gotten a lot of feedback on this so I chose not to browse through it, as to not run the risk of my own perceptions being influenced. Rather, I’m telling you solely how I felt about it after reading and listening, so naturally there is a strong possibility I will repeat what’s already been said, apologies in advance.

From the beginning with the set-up of the three hot girls and subsequent intro of Logan/Tyler I detected that you were possibly going down the slasher route. It just had that feel to it, the chirpy, bubbly, slightly corny banter between the girls to the hunky jock’s intervention and immediate spark with the nervous, quieter, out-of-towner member of the group. It had all the hallmarks of that kind of film, also being aware of your “Fade to White” I know that stuff is right up your alley.
One major problem with the Logan/Tyler character is that you introduce him as Logan before he calls himself Tyler to the girls. Straight away our suspicions are piqued. This is maybe where your devotions to the rules of scriptwriting might have hindered you. Yeah, you are supposed to introduce a character as who they are and that handle shouldn’t change for the duration of the script but here, for the sake of storytelling, more specifically, from the readers perspective you should have let on that his name was in fact Tyler both in prose and dialogue.

I realise that if you were watching this, it wouldn’t be a problem but the reader should be treated the same way as the audience, no? He calls himself Tyler, right, so as far as the filmed version would play out we would take that as the truth...until later of course. Why not call him Tyler from the beginning so then we, the reader, can find out his true identity when the audience is meant to find out, it’s part and parcel of the script’s drama and deception.

So as he is getting to know the girls, coming off as the well mannered, down-to-earth, artistically & financially endowed Mr. Right, I can’t get this nagging uneasy feeling about him out of my mind. Before, bam! On page 6 another ominous, too-blatant-to-ignore piece of information is dropped, by Logan of all people, regarding the kidnapping of two girls AT THE LAST TWO HOME GAMES!! I mean, that’s it for me, the writing isn’t so much written as carved 6 inches deep with a hammer and chisel into the wall.

At the same time, having read your “Fade to White” feature script which caught me way off guard through the superbly crafted twist, a small part of me was entertaining the notion that maybe one of the girls was the killer, even Emma and that was going to be the unexpected turn of events. But then again, I figured you wouldn’t go over the same ground by pulling the same stroke as a previous of yours.

When Logan and Emma’s friendship starts to blossom, I went with it, you know, the occasion, the alcohol, his charms and all that but for her to go with him alone to his place, and hour and a half away was too much for me. I know it was needed to move the story along but it just wasn’t plausible regardless if this is supernatural fiction or not, I couldn’t buy it. I know you are a stickler for believability and that ever present “would they really do that” question, reasoning and logic, etc so I know you’ll see where I’m coming from concerning this part of the story.
The key to her heart scene was pure cheddar but I gathered that was your intention, even Logan himself and Alyssa allude to it so it didn’t bother me. Made me laugh more than anything.

Again, my feelings towards the tone and delivery of dialogue in those scenes was cringe-worthy cheesy at times but I can only assume this was all in the spirit of this type of story and its characters, it fitted, thus it worked for me.

To recap, my biggest issues with act I was how you introduced Logan, what you revealed to us through his character, personality, perceived background as well as his interaction with the girls, waaay too much was given away here, in my opinion. Also, the way in which you set-up the plot in order for it to develop from this point with Logan and Emma felt so unbelievable that it came off as pure contrivance, merely implied to get us from point A to point B, without any consideration for actual reality. Of course, I understand the script contains otherworldly, fantastical elements, let’s say, it isn’t exactly “based on actual events” or anything but still, these are meant to be smart, discerning mid-twenties women, not impossible(you see cases of it every year on the news, Ted Bundy thrived off such blind trust) but given these circumstances, the three women together, only having met Logan, Emma seemingly the shy one, jumping into a jeep for a 90 min drive with a stranger, I don’t know, I’m willing to suspend belief, but we all have our limits within the frame, tone and style of a given story. Here I couldn’t get past it.

Now maybe you wanted us to know that Logan is the killer, it seems that way because it’s so obvious plus the bigger turning point comes later but still, it would’ve been a lot more effective if you had thrown us a few red-herrings to put us off before realisation dawns on us. Preferably right before he knocks Emma out, like your “Fade To Script” script with the scene in the shed, I still remember that, man, classic.

Unfortunately, I don’t know how you could do that, given the way in which you have orchestrated the story’s set up. There really is no way to divert our suspicions from Logan, he’s our number one prime suspect when he enters the fray and by page 12 this is inevitably confirmed, thus lessening what should be a scene of surprise and shock to nothing more than an underwhelming “I saw that coming” reaction.
For the next 5 and a half pages we got one long torture scene, which on a dramatic level I’ve no problems with, I’ll admit to getting many a twisted thrill from the (first 3) Saw films.

Logan’s dialogue could be stronger, menacing, less predictable, I get he’s a sick person and believed he was, it’s just I’ve heard that character a million times before. I was hoping you’d give him some trait of habit to set him apart, make him more memorable, distinguishable.

Think Frank Booth in “Blue Velvet” with his oxygen mask. You may not remember what he said (bar his penchant for profanities), but man, you’ll vividly recall him sucking that apparatus to give him the necessary buzz to carry out his abuses.
Logan came across like all the rest of them.

However, what did separate him was his primary technique of incarceration. His de-scalping method, I loved that, great, grizzly imagination. I violently squirmed and pulled my best “disgusted” face at that visual, the whole sensation of it sends shivers down my spine. Something which will stay with me for a while, nice job with that.

I believe, as a whole it was a very effective scene, very disturbed stuff there, certainly no punches pulled. Personally, they were my (I don’t know what this says about me) favourite scenes in the piece. I know you’re an avid horror fan “Hostel” anyone? And it shows as you definitely seem most at home writing this kind of stuff, it’s where you really get to flex your literary muscles and allow your imagination to roam wild. It shows on the page, and even sounded good on the iscript, which is an admirable achievement in my book as most stuff I listened to, for me, doesn’t translate well. And may I say I don’t attribute this in any way to the quality of the actual scripts that have undergone the treatment.

The final act does throw up the second “twist” which you concealed better but (and I’m not one for anticipating twists all that well) I was expecting Maia to turn the tables on Logan. Principally because of the references to her lips, odd smile her extremely forward nature and again, where else can the story go? Seeing how far we’ve gone in the script and what’s left, knowing that Logan’s gonna bring her to his house, it can be deduced that Maia will have a trick up her sleeve.

Once things unfold, again your writing here is at its most potent, visually wonderful, it’s played out well, seeing the shoe on the other foot, imagining Logan flip and flop in excruciating pain brought out that twisted thrill again in me.

But do you not think Maia, this guardian, this saviour, came out of nowhere? And much too late in the story? There was no foreshadowing, no prior mention of her, nothing. Again, I don’t know how you would do this but her appearance felt like an afterthought, rushed, merely plonked in there to take care of Logan. I would even go so far as to call her a deux ex machine plot device, inserted to kick ass, take names and ultimately conclude the script. It was an interesting notion of this ruthless, female protector in the form of a vampire and almost a turn on to see her do what she does best but her placement within the context of the script was way off, unprecedented, a short cut and a big issue for me as a way of finishing the piece.

     MAIA
What's a matter? Cat got your tongue?

-- This may be just me, but a saying as overused and ubiquitous as “cat got your tongue” has no place in a script. Much like “It’s not rocket science” “easy come, easy go” “what goes around, comes around” etc. There bland, display a lack of creativity and just downright annoying. Of course, this could be just me.

I don’t mean to sound wantonly harsh or critical but I know you demand honesty as all serious writers should and this is what I’ve given you. It had some flashes of brilliance, some great writing, gruesome visuals, a fantastic line in “I'm gonna cut your fucking tits off and feed 'em to you. You like that idea?” but overall it was let down severely by plot, structure and premature exposition.

You boxed yourself in with the way you went about it, Logan is revealed explicitly on page 12 to be not who he says he is, the problem is, we already know this by 3 and given the details on page 6. But like I already asked, who else can it be?

To counteract the predictability of the 1st act you go way left field in the third act (maybe not too extreme since it’s Soulshadows but you know what I mean) so it’s two extremes from the blatantly, ominously obvious to the random, out-of-the-blue shocking. The aftertaste for me was one of WTF? confusion, but more so, detachment and disengagement with the script, its characters and their fate.

p.s I loved the Tanis bookends, particularly the epilogue. The heart on the spit was cool, as was the fitting of the key. Did you suggest that to Bert?

Sorry again if I come across as being a prick, these were my genuine, unfiltered thoughts.

Either way, it’s always a perfectly formatted pleasure to read your work.

Take care

Col.

Hey Col, thanks so much for the read and review.  Don’t ever worry about coming off as harsh or being a dick, whatever.  I totally respect your feedback, and whether or not I always agree with you, I think you’re a great writer and reviewer.  You bring up things that no one else does, and for that alone, I love hearing what you have to say.

Mixed feelings are fine.  I’m sorry your feelings lean toward the negative side though.  Overall, I actually really like what you have to say here, and it sounds to me that you may have liked it more than you originally thought (funny, huh, how I can spin that around?).  In many ways, it’s tough to get people to like something that is purposely disgusting and troubling.  Maybe memorable is what I was after here.

Yes, the horror genre is definitely where I like to place my hat.  I’ve wanted to write a semi slasher script for awhile now…maybe even a torture porn entry, so I guess this is it…for now.

Even in my logline, I wasn’t trying to conceal much, or even anything.  I actually wanted this to be fairly obvious where we were headed.  True, it may indeed be my way of once again bucking the system, but it was intended.  As for introing Logan as Logan, vs. Tyler, I was doing 2 things:  staying true to the rules that I believe in and follow, and also letting everyone know immediately that something was amiss.  I was a little worried that some would be confused, but I decided this was the way I wanted to go with it.

As for the drama and deception of the script, I wasn’t after either, so to speak.  It’s usually painfully obvious what’s what and who’s who in these types of scripts, so I didn’t want to go that usual route, and try and deceive anyone.  I wanted you to prepare for what was eventually going to happen.  My deception and the like was meant for later, and also in the actual way that things would go down.

Yeah, as I said before, sometimes, when things seem so blatantly obvious, they turn out not to be.  I did want just a hint of not being sure if it would play out how it seemed, or introduce a huge twist that you may have been looking for or thinking about.

Most are in agreement with you about the believability of Emma going with Logan so “easily”.  In the scripts defense, I’m going to say what I’ve said numerous times already.  This stuff does happen all the time, it’s happened with me many, many times, and just based on that alone, I personally have no problem with the believability of this plot point.

Yes, the parmesan was purposely heavily sprinkled on top.  But again, as crazy as it may sound, cheesy lines and the like work a lot more than you might imagine.  If delivered in a purposely cheesy way, it comes off as an intentional joke, but still does the job.  If you really think about it, the keys to success at just about anything, are saying what the other wants to hear.  If you can get away with it with tongue in cheek, IMO, it’s all the more effective.

Again, I really didn’t want to plant any red herrings here and I wanted you to “know” (or think you knew) Logan was going to turn out to be a problem.  Glad the shed scene from Fade sticks in your mind.  Thanks, that’s really cool.

As for Logan’s shtick, dialogue, and characteristics, I did try to make him unique…guess my uniqueness was his form of capture, his brutality, coldness, sexual deviousness, and the like.  The thing about classic antags is that once we’re familiar with them, any time another character acts in a similar fashion, we think back to the original, which IMO, isn’t totally fair.  But that’s another entire discussion in itself.

Glad you were disgusted/troubled and the like by the basement scene.  That was completely my intention and was meant to be the meat of the script, and what would set it apart.  I don’t like pulling punches and I sure didn’t here. I went for what I thought would stand out in anyone’s mind for a long time.  Wanted to get as cringe worthy as I could, without going over the top into cartoonish violence.  I wanted it real, brutal, and troubling.  If you paid close attention, there isn’t any real onscreen violence (other than Logan biting Emma’s nipple) until Maia is glued to the basement wall, and that’s not until page 22!  Sure there are dead bodies and disturbing dialogue and allusions to violence, but nothing until the very end.  I really wanted to “show” brutal violence, without showing much of anything, really.

I agree that the iscript sounded pretty decent for the most part.  The reader didn’t hit every piece of dialogue correctly, but he pulled most of it off pretty well.  Not to sound like a conceited ass or anything, but I think it worked because the dialogue came off as real…and real disturbing!

Yes, you’re correct again, Maia’s intro is supposed to send a slight message that things aren’t going to go as before.  But I did not want to let in on what/who Maia was, or what she was going to do, other than turn the tables on Logan, until Maia “outed” herself.

Yep, the 2 basement scenes are the reason for the script.  They’re definitely the set pieces and the parts you’re supposed to remember.  I guess this is how I like to write and what I like in a movie.  A lot of lead in, climbing up the roller coaster’s big hill, all for the “ride” down.  I truly believe that lulls in action make the action hit that much harder when it hits.  And I actually really enjoy the slow ride up the hill…there’s usually a lot to see up there!

You’re not alone in using that damn “deux ex machina” term, in describing Maia’s late intro.  I can’t deny that it’s against all of what the books and pros say to do/not to do, but it seems to be the way I like it.  I don’t see it at all as a negative when someone says this, actually.  I personally don’t agree with it, but maybe that’s cause I don’t see the classic deux ex machina as being bad or wrong…when done effectively.  I think you know that I take pleasure in hearing things like, “but her placement within the context of the script was way off, unprecedented”.  I don’t like following any rules, unless I agree with them.  I don’t agree with this one, and it seems to be a pattern of my scripts.  BTW, Maia is not a vampire.  She’s a demon…actually, a good demon, a protector of helpless women who are preyed upon by the likes of the Logans of the world.

HaHa, Col…funny about the “What’s a matter? Cat got your tongue?” line.  Here’s the deal…where I’m coming from and what I was trying to do here (as well as what I’ve tried to do with similar clichéd sayings in my other scripts).  I like using these types of sayings in a situation where you’ve never seen or heard them before.  Maybe another buck of the system or the norm, but IMO, they work wonderfully in such instances.  To me, it’s very funny.  It’s Maia mocking Logan, showing him who’s boss.  I mean, she just gave him a Glasgow smile (as another reviewer correctly pointed out), he can’t talk, and, again, IMO, it works quite well.  Who knows, difference of opinion for sure, but that’s cool.

Again, as I said earlier, I respect and enjoy your reviews and feedback.  I appreciate the positives here very much and understand the negatives.  BTW, I love that line too!  Funny…I was laughing my ass off when I came up with it.  Some like their scripts and movies to follow certain understood norms, but I don’t, and I doubt I’ll ever truly follow them.  I want my work to be different, to stand out, to be memorable, if nothing more.

No, Bert wrote the Tannis segments on his own.  I gave some feedback, but they’re definitely his own work.

Totally appreciate the words, Col.  Sorry I couldn’t leave you with a better taste in your mouth.  I definitely tried.  Take care, brother!

Quoted from Dreamscale BTW, Maia is not a vampire.  She’s a demon…actually, a good demon, a protector of helpless women who are preyed upon by the likes of the Logans of the world.

Apologies, forgive my ignorance, I foolishly assumed due to her sharp teeth. But yeah, I saw her as a morally centred, do-gooding vampire as opposed to Stoker's kind  

Quoted from Dreamscale It’s Maia mocking Logan, showing him who’s boss.  I mean, she just gave him a Glasgow smile (as another reviewer correctly pointed out)

I meant to include that in my review actually, another deviously, sick form of punishment, good work. It is sometimes referred to as the Chelsea smile too but more commonly Glasgow.              

Col, you're funny.  No ignorance on your part at all, as obviously, there is nothing that says exactly what Maia is.  She didn't do anything vampiric though for sure.  She's rather ambiguous, and you know how I like having an ambiguous, late entry, deux ex machina character in every one of my scripts!  HaHa!!!!!

What's the background of the "Chelsea smile"?

This is a Chelsea smile.  Every now & again I see people in London with an awful scar over their cheeks that stretches to their ears.

Two small cuts does this, then the scream does the rest.

Wow, that's awesome.  Where'd that pic come from?  Great efx there!!!!  Love it!

Actually, when I was questioning the "Chelsea smile", I was asking where the name came from, what it means, etc.

Jayrex nailed it better then I ever could with that picture.

Chelsea is a part of London where it has a reputation of happening, or so the stories will tell you. Is sometimes football related, rivalry and that. Britian is the bosom of rabid hooliganism after all.

Ah...cool.  Now I get it.  Scary stuff for sure.  What a pic though, huh?

http://www.google.com/search?q.....7&rlz=1I7GGIE_en

Tommy Flanagan is an actor you may have seen with one, he got jumped outside a bar.

Pretty extreme stuff for what seems a random dispute...

Yep, I have seen him.  Since he's from Scotland, I guess he wears the Glasgow Smile version.