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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Tricks, Lies and Backhanders Moderators: bert
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  Author    Tricks, Lies and Backhanders  (currently 6783 views)
Heretic
Posted: February 1st, 2012, 1:02pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bert
I found the final twist a bit confusing.  I had to read through it twice, and once I understood it, I found it unnecessary and truthfully a bit strained.

I do like the hint of a relationship between Kathy and Richie, however, and think you should keep that as your final shot -- jettisoning that shoe-horn of a final twist and the long, expository dialogue from Kathy that reveals it.


Second this.

I really enjoyed this one Col and it's definitely one of the most filmable shorts I've read of late.  It has a great attitude and a real sense of depicting a whole world which is very attractive.  I do think that it totally falls apart with the final twist.  The point of the story, I think, will become more effective when it's made in a slightly more reserved fashion.  I also think that you have such a natural climax in the trick finally being performed/the wife finally showing up that the final gag kinda feels like an aftershock when we should already be in denouement.  It's the quick, snappy pace and the lack of moments for the audience to catch their breaths that makes the story successful as it leads up towards the trick.  Then, after you give 'em the trick, they can relax and think -- their thinking guided by the Kathy/Richie twist -- but they don't have to deal with a whole new idea.  

I wouldn't reduce the number of characters at all; I think it's necessary for this short to be "full," both of characters and of action, in order to succeed in setting the aforementioned pace that you do.

I really enjoyed this one.  Thanks.
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ghost and_ghostie gal
Posted: February 2nd, 2012, 1:32am Report to Moderator
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Hey, Col.

Very nice read, intercutting between scenes and all the characters isn't easy to do.  But I was able to follow.  Clearly a lot of thought went into this piece.  The visuals were spot on, but I enjoyed the dialogue most of all.  But Richie, was one of those guys, you either love or hate him.   And I have to admit, i liked him, a lot.  I think it ran just a little bit too long, but I enjoyed it nevertheless.

Fun read, no need to comment on the writing, you're one of the best.  I know you haven't been around for awhile, but I hope this one gets more reads.

Ghostie


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Colkurtz8
Posted: February 5th, 2012, 3:59am Report to Moderator
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Chris

Thanks for taking a look, I appreciate the comments. You echo what others have said, it’s all taken on board. I'm glad you don't think a reduction in characters is necessary, it may come as a surprise but I completely agree!

I had some interest from a filmmaker but she seems to have dropped off the map, why does this keep happening to me!?

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time.


Ghostie

Delighted you liked this. I thought the conventional prose would bore you after the seeing the frantic, visceral way you lay out yours. Which, if you remember, I really admired, it just probably needs a bit of tweaking for purposes of clarity.

Ya, I'm trying to become more involved again, I'll be posting another short soon.

Thanks for taking the time.

Cheers

Col.


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kingcooky555
Posted: May 21st, 2012, 10:42am Report to Moderator
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Very well done. I liked how the trick shot is tied to the the love triangle (quandrangle?) between Meg, shelley, Kathy and Derek.

Lots of characters and I had to slow down my read to remember who's who. It's fine as is but if you ever need to cut the pages - as some producers are very specific with page counts - you can probably end this when Derek gets hit with the punch.

The intercutting between the trick shot and the punch was great.

Good job!
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Colkurtz8
Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 4:40am Report to Moderator
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Cooky

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Yeah, a lot of other have expressed a similar opinion about ending it after Derek gets the punch and while I see where ye're all coming from I always wanted more of a link between the two stories besides the trick shot parallel as I didn't like the idea of the entire script hinging on what is essentially a gimmick.

You're right though about producers, they do care a lot about page counts, basically the lesser the better.

Thanks again for your comments.

Col.


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alffy
Posted: May 23rd, 2012, 3:20pm Report to Moderator
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Hey, Col.

I enjoyed this very much, a real sense of the 'pub'.  I love a bit of 'sharking' and I've seen this trick done too.

I did find the amount of characters a little confusing but I think that's always the case when reading but would be much easier on screen.

I like the two different stories intertwining at the end too.  My only 'slight' concern is the length but again I feel this would be much quicker on film than paper.

Overall I enjoyed this, nice work.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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Colkurtz8
Posted: May 24th, 2012, 6:06am Report to Moderator
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Alffy

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I'm thrilled it worked for you. Yeah, I think on the screen the amount of characters wouldn't be a problem, most only get a couple of lines but still serve a function. It's not like we got to remember all their names or their motives for some pay off down the line. They are just there to beef up the wager and provide a bit of banter.

Thanks again.

Col.


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KevinLenihan
Posted: July 10th, 2013, 8:22am Report to Moderator
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Hey Colonel,


Was unaware of this short. Glad to find it.

the good

The dialogue was very effective. On rare occasions the dialogue in a script is so smooth it actually has a hypnotic effect on me. This was one of those times.

The technique of building suspense with the two story lines running along side each other was text book. Even though I knew how the billiard ball trick worked, it still built suspense as I wondered if something would go wrong. Breaking up the POV was great technique and shows how suspense can be built even with something as simple as a pool table trick.

The correlation between the colors and actions of the billiard balls with the characters in the story was cool.

the bad

Only thing I had a problem with was the ending and the arrangement between Bob and Kathy. I actually read it a few times to make sure I wasn't missing something. I think it's very clever, correlating Bob with the waitress as silent collaborators, which completes the mirror images of the story, as Kathy correlates with Ritchie(and perhaps more than correlates). I just think it might fall flat in terms of its being moving.

So everything is spot on until the very end. Maybe the ending could be adjusted somehow to leave a more satisfying impression.

the ugly

Kathy, of course!

Overall, another fine display of craftsmanship and intricate plotting.
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Colkurtz8
Posted: July 11th, 2013, 2:55am Report to Moderator
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Kevin

Thanks for checking this out, Kev, perceptive comments as per usual.

The bet is a well known one alright and I feared that most people would fixate on that when its only a part of what's going on. Thankfully most have rightfully taken it as an illustrative device and not got too hung up on it. It was too apt a parallel to pass up!

Yeah, some have mentioned, most to be honest, that the end doesn't work and that's cool, I can be stubborn when I want to be and do still hold stock in it. Like any script it can do with tinkering but the suggestion by most detractors to end right after the balls/fist-face collision doesn't really interest me.

I always wanted more links between both scenes outside of the trick shot simply correlating with Derek's undoing. It intended to be more of a farce; people bribing people who are being cheated on while cheating themselves. I liked the idea of Bob selling out his brother for a measly 20 bucks and blowing it on a bet. The final twist of Kathy and Richie was just thrown in at the end to add to the mix of soap opera-ish shenanigans, nothing too serious

Thanks again for taking the time, man.

Col.


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KevinLenihan
Posted: July 11th, 2013, 6:56am Report to Moderator
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I don't suggest stopping at page 12. It would be kind of pointless without the ending. I guess what I would suggest is to maybe play with more or less the same ending until it works a bit better. Sometimes it's a very tiny adjustment, one missing element, that really makes things work better. I really wish I had a more specific suggestion. I have the feeling it's something enormously simple.

Yeah, I know the pool trick was a device, but this really taught me something about technique. I was surprised at how effective that was at holding my attention. I know the trick as I've spent my life in bars, but I found myself waiting to see how it played out. What really added to the effect was the way it was spread out by mixing in the other scene at the bar. And of course we suspect that the two scenes will eventually linked in someone, so that fueled anticipation too.
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Colkurtz8
Posted: July 12th, 2013, 6:38pm Report to Moderator
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Kevin

Yeah, I may go back to this at some point in the future.

Thanks again for your thoughtful and kind remarks.

Col.


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Mr.Z
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Hi Howard,

Good stuff my man, I liked it. I dug how you moved back and forth between both storylines and the mini-cliffhangers before each cut. Having the women dress in the same color as the balls was a great visual parallel.

Some cool descriptions as well, like “a man who enjoyed his youth a little too much” and “Working class would generously sum up this place and its clientele.”

My only grip is that the last twist (Bob’s deal with Kathy) was a twist too many. I think the plot works pretty well as it is and there’s sufficient connective tissue between both storylines. Would be better to end with a bang than use Kathy to explain a new plot development (IMO).

Also (but it’s an easy fix) there were too many character names to keep track of. Maybe you shouldn’t give a name to all the secondary characters and go with “FAT PUNTER, TALL PUNTER”, etc.

Still, pretty good job. Well done!


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Colkurtz8
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Matias

Thanks for the read, man.


Quoted from Mr.Z
My only grip is that the last twist (Bob’s deal with Kathy) was a twist too many. I think the plot works pretty well as it is and there’s sufficient connective tissue between both storylines. Would be better to end with a bang than use Kathy to explain a new plot development (IMO).


Yeah, others have said this. I just felt their wasn't enough in having the trick shot mirror Derek's take down by the three girls. That to me would feel a bit gimmicky, like I thought of this neat parallel and just left it that, there is not much of story there I reckon. I wanted something overarching to tie them together and add an extra double-cross to proceedings. I hoped it would give it a more farcical, can't-trust-no-one-in-the-place, everyone-out-to-screw-the-other vibe. That not only are husbands cheating on their wives but wives are cheating on their husbands and siblings are fu?king each other over for a couple of quid too. Your point it taken all the same though.


Quoted from Mr.Z
Also (but it’s an easy fix) there were too many character names to keep track of. Maybe you shouldn’t give a name to all the secondary characters and go with “FAT PUNTER, TALL PUNTER”, etc.


Yeah, I could just give them physical monikers to help distinguish them for the reader. I did have that specific number of characters in there for a reason though, they all play a part. Plus, on screen it wouldn't be a problem.

Thanks for checking this out, Matias, I appreciate you taking the time. Glad you go some kicks out of it anyway.

Col.


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SAC
Posted: September 12th, 2015, 5:09pm Report to Moderator
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Col,

Finally got around to this. And I should note, as you did to me, that the version I read is on your signature. Correct?

Oh, that sent items folder!

Consider losing some of those ellipses? Didn't think so! Not that they're particularly annoying, but maybe just one too many, especially early on. No explanation needed, I remember you telling me why you use them.

Nicely done, Col. I appreciate the set-ups of your stories a lot. There's always much more going on than what meets the eye in your work.

Once you stated remarking on the colors the girls were wearing I knew something was going on. When Shelley arrived I got it.

Also, good job with character descriptions here, especially Richie and Bob. You give us a foreshadowing of Richie with his weasel-ish appearance -- and I just thought it was his sneaky pool trick you were alluding to, never mind the end twst!

Bob's character stood out as soon as you mentioned track suit and I immediately saw a navy blue Addidas with a white stripe going down the leg, wearing white sneakers. Know the type, perfect for a pool room.

The best thing about this is I can see it all playing out in my head, which isn't something I can do with every script I read. But for all that is going on here you made it very clear exactly what it is I'm reading/watching. And with an excellent final page twist, too.

Very well written, Col. Enjoyed this.

Steve


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Colkurtz8
Posted: September 20th, 2015, 4:35am Report to Moderator
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Steven

Thanks for the checking this out.


Quoted from SAC
Finally got around to this. And I should note, as you did to me, that the version I read is on your signature. Correct?


Yup, that's the latest draft through Dropbox. The link at the top of this discussion board is the draft I originally posted the traditional way through the site.


Quoted from SAC
Oh, that sent items folder!


I know, that pesky folder has been catching out cheating spouses since their introduction to mobile devices circa mid noughties!


Quoted from SAC
Consider losing some of those ellipses? Didn't think so! Not that they're particularly annoying, but maybe just one too many, especially early on. No explanation needed, I remember you telling me why you use them.


Noted. Too much of (almost) anything is not a god thing.


Quoted from SAC
Nicely done, Col. I appreciate the set-ups of your stories a lot. There's always much more going on than what meets the eye in your work.

Once you stated remarking on the colors the girls were wearing I knew something was going on. When Shelley arrived I got it.


- Thank you. Yeah I hoped the realisation of what's going on in terms of the parallels would gradually reveal itself when you noticed the attention being paid to what the lounge characters were wearing.


Quoted from SAC
Also, good job with character descriptions here, especially Richie and Bob. You give us a foreshadowing of Richie with his weasel-ish appearance -- and I just thought it was his sneaky pool trick you were alluding to, never mind the end twst!


Cool. Being honest I don’t normally spend too much time mulling over character description and try to keep them to no more than two lines, sometimes just a few adjectives.


Quoted from SAC
Bob's character stood out as soon as you mentioned track suit and I immediately saw a navy blue Addidas with a white stripe going down the leg, wearing white sneakers. Know the type, perfect for a pool room.


Ha, yeah, you nailed it. I think we can all recognize the type of clientele who frequents this type of establishment…without sounding too prejudice


Quoted from SAC
The best thing about this is I can see it all playing out in my head, which isn't something I can do with every script I read. But for all that is going on here you made it very clear exactly what it is I'm reading/watching. And with an excellent final page twist, too.


That’s the best compliment I could get, thank you. As you say, there is a lot of switching back and forth and a lot of characters to contend with so I understand that some feel it’s a bit cluttered on the page. This wouldn't be so much a problem on screen though.

Thanks for the taking the time, Steven, glad you enjoyed it.

Col.


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