SimplyScripts Discussion Board
Blog Home - Produced Movie Script Library - TV Scripts - Unproduced Scripts - Contact - Site Map
ScriptSearch
Welcome, Guest.
It is March 18th, 2024, 9:27pm
Please login or register.
Was Portal Recent Posts Home Help Calendar Search Register Login
Please do read the guidelines that govern behavior on the discussion board. It will make for a much more pleasant experience for everyone. A word about SimplyScripts and Censorship


Produced Script Database (Updated!)
One Week Challenge - Who Wrote What and Writers' Choice.


Scripts studios are posting for award consideration

Short Script of the Day | Featured Script of the Month | Featured Short Scripts Available for Production
Submit Your Script

How do I get my film's link and banner here?
All screenplays on the simplyscripts.com and simplyscripts.net domain are copyrighted to their respective authors. All rights reserved. This screenplaymay not be used or reproduced for any purpose including educational purposes without the expressed written permission of the author.
Forum Login
Username: Create a new Account
Password:     Forgot Password

SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Rid of Guilt (alternative version) Moderators: bert
Users Browsing Forum
No Members and 8 Guests

 Pages: « 1, 2, 3 » : All
Recommend Print
  Author    Rid of Guilt (alternative version)  (currently 6173 views)
Toby_E
Posted: May 7th, 2013, 4:54am Report to Moderator
Been Around



Location
London, UK
Posts
872
Posts Per Day
0.15
Col,

I really enjoyed this one, man.

I have a feeling I might have read the original version, when it was posted all those years ago. Just checked; and yep, I did give that a read. Despite that being well over 4 years ago now, I felt a sense of familiarity when I was reading this one.

So I guess you're doing something right, if your stories stick in people's minds for that long

But anyway, back to the script.

As I said at the start, I really liked it. There's really not too much for me to bring up. It was a clean, typo-free read, and none of the dialogue brought up any red flags for reading awkward or unnatural, either.

I sometimes dislike non-linear structure, if I feel that it is sometimes used purely as a gimmick, without actually bringing anything to the story.

However, I thought that it really did work here. Without it, I do not think that the story would have worked.

The only real issue I had with the script was that I felt that it hung around for slightly too long after (SPOILER) Patrick offs himself. I wasn't sure if the scene where Daniel gives Joseph back his toy train was necessary.

But yeah, this was a decent little short.

Well written, buddy.


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 15 - 40
Andrew
Posted: May 7th, 2013, 4:46pm Report to Moderator
Old Timer



Posts
1791
Posts Per Day
0.33
Colonel!

First off, nice work. You handled the three timelines well and the use of the dictaphone was a nice visual in differentiating that also doubled up to give the ending a bit more weight.

Your craft is spot on. No comments there needed.

My real thinking on this derives from the actual suicide. It's less an issue of the script, but more a rumination of the possible ramifications of the action. Is it me or is it actually incredibly selfish that Patrick would kill himself in front of a young child, and potentially scar this young lad who would not seek the revenge/retirbution of the mother at such a young age? I cannot for the life of me think how the seeing this image at such a youn age could be positive when Patrick is making this decision. Doesn't his decision simply underline that he has learnt nothing at all? It was his inability to control himself that led to the death of the young boy's father, and here again, it's his inability to deal with the guilt that leads to a grisly death that also unfairly impacts on Daniel. Is this intentionally woven into the script? Are we supposed to read this as an implicit message that there has been no growth on Patrick's part and his decisions still revolve around number one? There just appears a residue of bitterness in Patrick that seems to suggest he blames the victims in all of this - even if that's not what he's actually stating.

I ask these questions not as criticism, but because it's what stayed with me after reading it. It just felt so damned unfair. Sure, on a surface level Patrick was doing the 'right thing' in order to satisfy the vengeful nature of society, but in fact, this was kind of the last slap in the face for the family - at least that's how I would read it. It's definitely provoking thought, which is a sign of good writing - I'm just curious as to your intentions on these issues.

As someone else mentioned, you could probably shave a little off this and not lose much by way of impact, but instead add a smidgen more zip.

As ever, though, you don't disappoint, my friend. Nice one.


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 16 - 40
Colkurtz8
Posted: May 8th, 2013, 4:00am Report to Moderator
Old Timer



Location
--> Over There
Posts
1731
Posts Per Day
0.31
Toby

Thanks for the read, I’m glad it worked for you for the most part.

In regards Patrick’s scene with Linda and Joseph it was more to establish a connection with them thus making the characters more intrinsic to one another. I thought it would be a nice reveal to find out that Daniel had some prior interaction with the mother and son before Patrick arrived on the scene. I see it as a sort of epilogue, similar to your one in “Searching For Gemma” that brings the intersections of these character full circle. It may deflate the ending from the dramatics of Patrick’s action but I feel it adds to the horrible tragedy of the piece…of course I could be wrong.

Anyway, thanks for the comments.


Andrew

Thanks for the read, Andrew, I can always rely on you to the of the crux of it. Which, in this case, is the real motivation and value of Patrick’s suicide. Everything you say is correct and reasonably argued, exactly the kind of debate I hoped the script would spark and which a few people did address concerning the original draft some years back.

Suicide is considered by many to be a selfish act in itself although I believe there are exceptions. Patrick’s however, is not one of those, it is indeed a terribly selfish act, with massive, as you say, ramifications for those affected, particularly Joseph...Although I tried to imply in the prose that he or Linda don't see Patrick actually jump as they are watching the train pass by them. Yes, Patrick does leave an apologetic recording and subsequently throw himself under a train to repent his great sin and prove how sorry he is but I believe there is a part of him that realises the effect it will have on the people involved in which he derives some morbid comfort from, in knowing that his final act will be of some notoriety, it will effect somebody, the whole “go out with a  bang” ideal. However, as a counterpoint to that, Patrick is clearly unstable, you get a glimpse of his living conditions, his own life has really gone to pot since the incident, in his frazzled state of mind he may actually believe he is doing the honourable thing as his recorded testimony would have you think. Isn’t that what drives most suicide victims when deciding to go through with it, that they are doing the world a favour?  It’s this central argument I wanted readers to take away with them. I think everyone will and should seriously question Patrick’s true motivations, some will call him out as being nothing more than a careless, selfish basta?d looking for attention while others will have a degree of sympathy for somebody so rejected and miserable that the only viable option was suicide and through that act, had convinced themselves they were taking the noble route.

Either opinion is valid I think.

Thanks again for your comments.

Col.


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 17 - 40
J.S.
Posted: May 10th, 2013, 11:00pm Report to Moderator
New



Posts
204
Posts Per Day
0.05
Hey Howard,

Returning the read. Below are my notes as I was reading the script, followed by my general thoughts.

"A portable TV flickers in the corner."

Flickers in what sense? I'm having trouble understanding what you mean. Does it have a flickering problem? Is someone changing the channels? Or is it flickering on static? I'm going to assume the foremost possibility.

Also, what I'm gathering from this first scene is that you're describing a series of shots, approx. 3 to 5, just as a way of "establishing."

"Tea bag stains blotch the wall over the exposed, bulging bin. "

I don't understand this.

", some
there longer than others."

I don't understand this either.

Okay, so first scene, you spend about 20 seconds getting across to us, arguably, a single point. I would spend 6 or 7 seconds, no more than 10. But I'm not going to pass judgment on this for now because maybe it'll work as I read on.

"INT. LINDA�S HOUSE � BEDROOM � MORNING "

After reading the scene (getting to the TRAINS are the theme of the room) I looked back to the heading. You should probably indicate that this is Joseph's room. Unless it's Linda's? Or do they both sleep in the same room? It's okay to indicate this even though you haven't introduced the character yet.

Also, this scene was somewhat quick, and again I'm still not sure the purpose of it at this point. Likewise, I'll not pass judgment for the time being.

The next scene, back at Patrick's flat could probably work better as a voice-over, as I don't see any real reason to show that he's drinking. I don't think its efficacious.

"It�s the tranquillity of early
morning, you know. Ideal
opportunity to take a walk...out
in the country of course, away
from all this...Where you can
really appreciate it. "

It seems contemplative, sure. But still, I don't know where this is going.

Pg. 3 INT. PATRICK�S FLAT � KITCHEN � NIGHT

"I�m not doing too good. Just can�t
seem to get my head right...I
thought I could slip back in
unnoticed. Try to pick things up
where I�d left them...rebuild. "

I don't understand why this is necessary, and I don't really get it. It's talking about something I have no knowledge of so I don't know how to respond i.e., "I'm not doing too good" Why? "Just can't seem to get my head right" Why? "I thought I could slip back in unnoticed" I don't understand. "Try to pick things up where I'd left them...rebuild." Again, I don't know whats going on. He's speaking very abstractly, and so for now, I'm just going to go along with his musing.

"his
formal, well-prepped attire for the first time. "

This seemed a bit redundant because I already know what his clothes look like. Just keep it short and say his clothes.

"I thought that�s what it would
take. Is five years not enough...?
Of course not. "

Not to belabor this point, but again don't know how this is relevant.

"A YOUNG COUPLE "

I don't think extras really need to be capitalized. I don't think I've ever read it like that before.

"Patrick holds out two hardened, callused HANDS, palms up."

I think this would read better:

"Patrick holds out his hardened and callused palms."

"Patrick laughs."

This is a bit awkward

"He looks
at his hands,"

He looks at Patrick's hands or his own hands?

"You�ll be happy to hear my family
haven�t talked to me since I�ve
come out. Friends...? I don�t have
any"

Okay, this is sort of intriguing at this point. Not 100% clear, but definitely intriguing.

"My wife moved away with her new
man...Thankfully we never had any
children. "

Now I'm not sure if this is Patrick in the Flat or Patrick at the Station.

"braces himself."

Why is he doing this? Maybe you need a better word than 'braces'. Is he nervous?

"You have to know how sorry I am,
both of you...and I realise these
words mean nothing... "

Now its feeling like a suicide note. At this point my wild guess, and this is completely wild and out of the blue gut feeling, is that he's going to jump in front of the train.

pg. 12 INT. PATRICK�S FLAT � KITCHEN � NIGHT & EXT. LINDA�S HOUSE � HALLWAY � MORNING

I honestly don't think these two scenes are necessary.

"Daniel gazes down at his hands. "

I'm guessing you're trying to get across the idea that he feels partly responsible? I get the tie in with Patrick looking at his hardened hands, but it still doesn't feel completely in sync with this.

"...I was up at half six, rose with
the sun. Kinda gives you a feeling
it's gonna be a nice day... "

I was looking for a clue here but got nothing.

"Then towards Linda who stares back at him."

I don't know what this is suppose to signify.


Overall, it was fairly good but it does need work. I still don't understand why he killed himself. There was that part about him saying his family hasn't talked to him "since [he's] come out." Again, I don't know what this means. Out of the closet? Regardless, I began to enjoy it around this point (page 7) because now I could kind of make out the narrative. But for the first six pages you're leaving me confused and I don't know where this is going. The information is all sort of disconnected.

The whole aspect of using the flashback reminded me a bit of LOST, so at the times where it didn't feel extraneous you did a good job with it. But there were others times where it feels unnecessary. I think the first six pages could benefit from being shortend by about 55%. It might seem like much, but the narrative only gets intriguing for me around page 7.

Nevertheless, I do still have some unanswered questions. There's a lot of assuming that I have to do to get the narrative to work right in my head. My instinct tells me he lied when he's telling the story to Daniel and he's the father of the child, but then again I can't be 100% sure of that. He could be a friend, an uncle, or the drunk driver in his story who wants to set things right. But I can't be sure of this either.

Okay, now I'm reading through the comments and it looks like he's the drunk driver. The only hint I see that could have made the connection clear for me was the part about five years. But this happens on page 4, but at that point I don't know that was relevant information to remember.

So my thoughts on the non-linear structure, I don't like it. It just really confused me and I don't like to be confused Personally, I don't think the story actually begins until page 7. Everything before that is very random. But I did enjoy what you did later on.

Upon further thought, what Andrew mentioned and you replied to, that double edged sword, I can see that. That's not bad.

Best luck with getting this one reworked,

-J.S.

Revision History (1 edits)
J.S.  -  May 14th, 2013, 3:53am
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 18 - 40
spesh2k
Posted: May 15th, 2013, 2:06pm Report to Moderator
January Project Group



Location
Harlem USA
Posts
1186
Posts Per Day
0.20
Hey Col, this was really good. I dig your writing style, easy on the eyes.

At about page 5, we figure that the drunk driver Patrick is speaking about is indeed himself, but when he asks that question "what are the odds of surviving", I was just as caught off guard as Daniel. I thought that maybe Patrick would apologize in person to rid himself of this guilt, though the thought that he might jump in front of the train was in the back of my head.

I like the way you weave the different time cuts to add tension to the story. And your characters are very fleshed out, too. Patrick comes across as a typical, guilt ridden drunk (which is done often) through his flashbacks of him sitting in his kitchen speaking into a tape recorder. But he also comes off as affable when we hear him speaking to Daniel -- I thought that after 5 years of prison, the way its written, that he was trying to find his way back into society.

I liked the ending and the last words, though I would have written it like this:

PATRICK (V.O.) God, I love these mornings, don't you?

Then back at the train.

PATRICK (V.O.) Kinda gives you the feeling its gonna be a nice day...

I'd cut out the "I was up at half six and rose with the sun" part. I don't think you need to include the full quote (from earlier in the story).

Also, one other minor thing, I got a little bit confused at parts because you do cut in and out between time sequences. One second Patrick is speaking to Daniel, then he'd be addressing his tape recorder, and then you'd cut to earlier at the train station with a Patrick V.O. -- I wasn't sure at times (at first) if his V.O. was a continuation of him addressing the tape recorder or a continuation of his conversation with Daniel - of course, after reading the whole block of VO dialogue, I figured it out.

Overall, fantastic work. Liked it a lot.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 19 - 40
Colkurtz8
Posted: May 29th, 2013, 5:41am Report to Moderator
Old Timer



Location
--> Over There
Posts
1731
Posts Per Day
0.31
James

Thanks for the read and detailed review.


Quoted from J.S.
"A portable TV flickers in the corner."

Flickers in what sense? I'm having trouble understanding what you mean. Does it have a flickering problem? Is someone changing the channels? Or is it flickering on static? I'm going to assume the foremost possibility.


- What I meant here is when a TV lies just within your field of vision, as in out of the corner of one’s eye it gives the allusion of flickering as it goes from shot to shot. In that opening scene I imagined the camera panning around the apartment taking in the squalor with the TV on in the background without the camera ever focusing on thus it would flicker in the corner.


Quoted from J.S.
Also, what I'm gathering from this first scene is that you're describing a series of shots, approx. 3 to 5, just as a way of "establishing."


- Correct, trying to give an impression of Patrick living conditions. thus character, purely through visuals.


Quoted from J.S.
"Tea bag stains blotch the wall over the exposed, bulging bin. "

I don't understand this.


- Have you ever been in a house where the occupants have a, shall we say, lacklustre approach to housekeeping? They’re too lazy to empty the bin so when it gets full they take the lid off to fit a bit more in. Once overflowing, if someone tries to toss a used tea bag on to it will often hit the wall behind it (presuming the bin is against one) leaving those blotchy stains.


Quoted from J.S.
", some
there longer than others."

I don't understand this either.


- The full line is:

“Dishes pile up in the sink, some there longer than others.”

Meaning some of the piled dishes have been piled up on the sink longer than others.


Quoted from J.S.
Okay, so first scene, you spend about 20 seconds getting across to us, arguably, a single point. I would spend 6 or 7 seconds, no more than 10. But I'm not going to pass judgment on this for now because maybe it'll work as I read on.


- As in the first scene so you mean kitchen and living room of Patrick’s house? Although it’s half a page (i.e. 30 seconds) action and no dialogue can vary drastically. Sometimes a page of action could equal 2 minutes, 5 minutes or 20 seconds of screen time, depending on what’s being shown and how. Dialogue can fluctuate from the minute per page rule of thumb too but not to the same degree as action I reckon.


Quoted from J.S.
"INT. LINDA�S HOUSE � BEDROOM � MORNING "

After reading the scene (getting to the TRAINS are the theme of the room) I looked back to the heading. You should probably indicate that this is Joseph's room. Unless it's Linda's? Or do they both sleep in the same room? It's okay to indicate this even though you haven't introduced the character yet.


- Good call, cheers.


Quoted from J.S.
Also, this scene was somewhat quick, and again I'm still not sure the purpose of it at this point. Likewise, I'll not pass judgment for the time being.

The next scene, back at Patrick's flat could probably work better as a voice-over, as I don't see any real reason to show that he's drinking. I don't think its efficacious.


- Hopefully this made more sense once you finished.


Quoted from J.S.
"It�s the tranquillity of early
morning, you know. Ideal
opportunity to take a walk...out
in the country of course, away
from all this...Where you can
really appreciate it. "

It seems contemplative, sure. But still, I don't know where this is going.


- Which is not a bad thing surely if it pays off at the end?


Quoted from J.S.
Pg. 3 INT. PATRICK�S FLAT � KITCHEN � NIGHT

"I�m not doing too good. Just can�t
seem to get my head right...I
thought I could slip back in
unnoticed. Try to pick things up
where I�d left them...rebuild. "

I don't understand why this is necessary, and I don't really get it. It's talking about something I have no knowledge of so I don't know how to respond i.e., "I'm not doing too good" Why? "Just can't seem to get my head right" Why? "I thought I could slip back in unnoticed" I don't understand. "Try to pick things up where I'd left them...rebuild." Again, I don't know whats going on. He's speaking very abstractly, and so for now, I'm just going to go along with his musing.


- Again, hopefully this makes more sense later on.


Quoted from J.S.
"his
formal, well-prepped attire for the first time. "

This seemed a bit redundant because I already know what his clothes look like. Just keep it short and say his clothes.


- Good point, duly noted.


Quoted from J.S.
"Patrick holds out two hardened, callused HANDS, palms up."

I think this would read better:

"Patrick holds out his hardened and callused palms."


- Thanks for the suggestion, I specified “palms up” merely for clarity.


Quoted from J.S.
"Patrick laughs."

This is a bit awkward


- I’m delighted you say that, I intended it that way. I formatted that line out on its own to stress the abruptness of his laugh at his own comment.


Quoted from J.S.
"He looks
at his hands,"

He looks at Patrick's hands or his own hands?


- Well spotted, I’ll change it to “He looks at his own hands”


Quoted from J.S.
Okay, this is sort of intriguing at this point. Not 100% clear, but definitely intriguing


- Good


Quoted from J.S.
"My wife moved away with her new
man...Thankfully we never had any
children. "

Now I'm not sure if this is Patrick in the Flat or Patrick at the Station.


- An understandable question. This is Patrick at the flat. I hoped the reader would determine this because the previous scene is at the flat with Patrick seemingly talking to himself. Any V.O is a continuation of the last scene we see Patrick in.


Quoted from J.S.
"braces himself."

Why is he doing this? Maybe you need a better word than 'braces'. Is he nervous?


- Yes he most certainly is. I dunno, maybe it’s a slang thing, where I’m from it’s a common phrase to describe somebody briefly preparing themselves (a deep breath, a cough, focusing of eyes etc,) before doing something daunting. I could be more specific I guess.


"You have to know how sorry I am,
both of you...and I realise these
words mean nothing... "


Quoted from J.S.
Now its feeling like a suicide note. At this point my wild guess, and this is completely wild and out of the blue gut feeling, is that he's going to jump in front of the train.


- Bingo!


Quoted from J.S.
pg. 12 INT. PATRICK�S FLAT � KITCHEN � NIGHT & EXT. LINDA�S HOUSE � HALLWAY � MORNING

I honestly don't think these two scenes are necessary.


-It's primarily a visual comparison showing the Dictaphone after the final message has been recorded juxtaposed with it at its chosen destination. I think it could work well on screen.


Quoted from J.S.
"Daniel gazes down at his hands. "

I'm guessing you're trying to get across the idea that he feels partly responsible? I get the tie in with Patrick looking at his hardened hands, but it still doesn't feel completely in sync with this.


- Part guilt since he had a grip on Patrick before his grip gave way which of course ties into the earlier comment by Patrick. It’s as if Daniel remembers the remark at the moment and instinctually looks down at his hands.


Quoted from J.S.
"...I was up at half six, rose with
the sun. Kinda gives you a feeling
it's gonna be a nice day... "

I was looking for a clue here but got nothing.


- This was bring things full circle, close the loop if you will as the second and third timelines connect. Also, I like the idea of referring back to Patrick at the beginning when he seems to so cheerful and life affirming compared to what we learn about him and his changed attitude right before he jumps.


Quoted from J.S.
"Then towards Linda who stares back at him."

I don't know what this is suppose to signify.


- Linda had just talked to Daniel so she is understandably curious as to why everybody else is staring at him. I imagine that Linda and Joseph don’t realise what has actually happened at this point as they are further down the platform but with all the commotion and the abrupt nature of the train’s braking she at least knows that something has gone down and the man she just talked to seems to be involved.


Quoted from J.S.
Overall, it was fairly good but it does need work. I still don't understand why he killed himself. There was that part about him saying his family hasn't talked to him "since [he's] come out." Again, I don't know what this means. Out of the closet? Regardless, I began to enjoy it around this point (page 7) because now I could kind of make out the narrative. But for the first six pages you're leaving me confused and I don't know where this is going. The information is all sort of disconnected.


- He kills himself because of the guilt he feels for killing Linda and Joseph’s husband/father while driving drunk after catching his wife cheating. Also, as a result, his life has gone to sh?t since the event, everyone has abandoned him. He served time for it, which is what “since I’ve come out” refers to.

Did you not realise that when Patrick is telling Daniel about Linda’s situation he lets on that it was someone else who committed the tragic act? This is intertwined with him recording the message in his apartment where he talks as if it were him that done it. I hoped that when you find out he’s talking on the Dictaphone and, in fact, recording a confession its clear as to which version is the actual truth and the other a story to separate him from the incident while gauging Patrick’s reaction.


Quoted from J.S.
The whole aspect of using the flashback reminded me a bit of LOST, so at the times where it didn't feel extraneous you did a good job with it. But there were others times where it feels unnecessary. I think the first six pages could benefit from being shortend by about 55%. It might seem like much, but the narrative only gets intriguing for me around page 7.


- It may only start coalescing around that point but the build-up makes more sense as you read on. Everything that has gone before informs the second half of the story as things come to a head. At least this was my intention.

Nevertheless, I do still have some unanswered questions. There's a lot of assuming that I have to do to get the narrative to work right in my head. My instinct tells me he lied when he's telling the story to Daniel and he's the father of the child, but then again I can't be 100% sure of that. He could be a friend, an uncle, or the drunk driver in his story who wants to set things right. But I can't be sure of this either.


Quoted from J.S.
Okay, now I'm reading through the comments and it looks like he's the drunk driver. The only hint I see that could have made the connection clear for me was the part about five years. But this happens on page 4, but at that point I don't know that was relevant information to remember.


- But it’s still in there. The answers are on the page. I mean, it’s only a 12 page script after all, there’s not a lot to retain I don’t think. Don’t get me wrong I understand what you mean and you are not the first to be confused by it but I’m confident the story  ties up, it just may require a second read. Also, I think it would be a lot easier to follow on screen as any script which has multiple timelines overlapping can be  taxing read.


Quoted from J.S.
So my thoughts on the non-linear structure, I don't like it. It just really confused me and I don't like to be confused Personally, I don't think the story actually begins until page 7. Everything before that is very random. But I did enjoy what you did later on.


Cool, it won’t work for everybody, if it’s not your thing so be it. Personally, I love non-linear films when done well e.g. Pulp Fiction, Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind, Memento to name a few.


Quoted from J.S.
Upon further thought, what Andrew mentioned and you replied to, that double edged sword, I can see that. That's not bad.

Best luck with getting this one reworked,


- Thanks so much again for taking the time to read this, James, and your extensive notes. Much appreciated, man. Just a shame it didn’t really work for you.

Regards

Col.


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 20 - 40
Colkurtz8
Posted: May 29th, 2013, 5:43am Report to Moderator
Old Timer



Location
--> Over There
Posts
1731
Posts Per Day
0.31
Michael

Thanks for reading, man.


Quoted from spesh2k
At about page 5, we figure that the drunk driver Patrick is speaking about is indeed himself, but when he asks that question "what are the odds of surviving", I was just as caught off guard as Daniel. I thought that maybe Patrick would apologize in person to rid himself of this guilt, though the thought that he might jump in front of the train was in the back of my head.


- The “what are the odds of surviving" is a somewhat facetious, rhetorical remark by Patrick as we all know that surviving a train running over you is an impossiblility. Patrick asks him more so to tie in to the earlier part of their conversation about Patrick profession.


Quoted from spesh2k
I like the way you weave the different time cuts to add tension to the story. And your characters are very fleshed out, too. Patrick comes across as a typical, guilt ridden drunk (which is done often) through his flashbacks of him sitting in his kitchen speaking into a tape recorder. But he also comes off as affable when we hear him speaking to Daniel -- I thought that after 5 years of prison, the way its written, that he was trying to find his way back into society.


- Yeah Patrick’s chirpiness here and in the original draft put off some people. My reasoning behind it is that he’s arrived at the last day of his life, a life he doesn’t want to live anymore, thus he’s happy, excited almost. Although, as the train nears, he does feel the pressure and gravity of his situation.


Quoted from spesh2k
I liked the ending and the last words, though I would have written it like this:

PATRICK (V.O.) God, I love these mornings, don't you?

Then back at the train.

PATRICK (V.O.) Kinda gives you the feeling its gonna be a nice day...

I'd cut out the "I was up at half six and rose with the sun" part. I don't think you need to include the full quote (from earlier in the story).


- Good suggestion, I've debated losing that line before but kept it in there. It could go.


Quoted from spesh2k
Also, one other minor thing, I got a little bit confused at parts because you do cut in and out between time sequences. One second Patrick is speaking to Daniel, then he'd be addressing his tape recorder, and then you'd cut to earlier at the train station with a Patrick V.O. -- I wasn't sure at times (at first) if his V.O. was a continuation of him addressing the tape recorder or a continuation of his conversation with Daniel - of course, after reading the whole block of VO dialogue, I figured it out.


James (J.S) said a similar thing, I hoped that as you read the order of scenes you will discern which Patrick is talking as his V.O. will always belong to the scene of him which preceded it but yeah I can see how it could be a bit confusing.

Cheers again for taking the time to read and review this one, Michael.

Regards

Col.


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 21 - 40
J.S.
Posted: May 29th, 2013, 11:06pm Report to Moderator
New



Posts
204
Posts Per Day
0.05

Quoted from Colkurtz8
James

Thanks for the read and detailed review.


No problem


Quoted from Colkurtz8


- What I meant here is when a TV lies just within your field of vision, as in out of the corner of one�s eye it gives the allusion of flickering as it goes from shot to shot. In that opening scene I imagined the camera panning around the apartment taking in the squalor with the TV on in the background without the camera ever focusing on thus it would flicker in the corner.



I see. In the sense that its simply on some channel, the volume's turned down I assume.


Quoted from Colkurtz8


- Correct, trying to give an impression of Patrick living conditions. thus character, purely through visuals.



Okay, I see what you mean. Though it gave me the impression that he's just an untidy individual more so than that the condition of the room is such because of the incident. It requires retrospective thinking to fully get that across I think. So that's why I would suggest you tone it down a bit, just because in my opinion only those few shots would get the same message across. For example:

"Not much better. Tea bag stains blotch the wall over the
exposed, bulging bin. Dishes pile up in the sink, some
there longer than others. "

I imagine as a series of shots. Rather, you could just go with:

"In the same condition as the living room."

It's just as good. Just a suggestion


Quoted from Colkurtz8


- Have you ever been in a house where the occupants have a, shall we say, lacklustre approach to housekeeping? They�re too lazy to empty the bin so when it gets full they take the lid off to fit a bit more in. Once overflowing, if someone tries to toss a used tea bag on to it will often hit the wall behind it (presuming the bin is against one) leaving those blotchy stains.



Haha, no I've never heard of this. But now that you explained I can see what you mean. Though, honestly, its too descriptive. If it had some relevance, maybe its a running joke in the script, I could see why you would indicate that. But, no, I've never heard of that before


Quoted from Colkurtz8


- The full line is:

�Dishes pile up in the sink, some there longer than others.�

Meaning some of the piled dishes have been piled up on the sink longer than others.



I just don't understand how you could show a dish has been dirty and there longer than another dish. Is it growing mold on it? I don't know, it just struck me as odd. It's no big deal I suppose but I had to stop and think about that one for while.

I did just reread that paragraph and I think because this is description only and that the tea bag stains aren't actually blotching the wall as we see them and dishes aren't piling up in the sink as we see them i.e., there's not actual action going on here, it's just an image, you're better off saying "Tea bag stains have blotched the wall..." and "Dishes have piled up in the sink." It's more clear that way.


Quoted from Colkurtz8


- Yes he most certainly is. I dunno, maybe it�s a slang thing, where I�m from it�s a common phrase to describe somebody briefly preparing themselves (a deep breath, a cough, focusing of eyes etc,) before doing something daunting. I could be more specific I guess.



For me it was just seemed odd because there's no clear indication of it just yet. It feels premature to say he's bracing himself.


Quoted from Colkurtz8


Did you not realise that when Patrick is telling Daniel about Linda�s situation he lets on that it was someone else who committed the tragic act? This is intertwined with him recording the message in his apartment where he talks as if it were him that done it. I hoped that when you find out he�s talking on the Dictaphone and, in fact, recording a confession its clear as to which version is the actual truth and the other a story to separate him from the incident while gauging Patrick�s reaction.



Not really. Something about the way you introduced Patrick then Linda and Joseph I imagined they were a family. I don't know why, I just assumed that. So that idea kept going through my head as I was reading the script. And because the guy talking to Daniel seemed a shade cheerier than you might think, I thought he was the father and simply lying to Daniel about the father/drunk driver story. Honestly, not for a second would I have realized that he was the drunk driver. That information, which is essential to the story, it's essential to who he is, what he's doing there, and what he's done is revealed in an indirect way, with vague clues. As a matter of fact, as I wrote, I only understood this after I read the comments. And I think the only clear piece of information that would have helped me make that connection was the five years. But even that I felt wasn't presented clearly so that's why I was lost.


Quoted from Colkurtz8

- But it�s still in there. The answers are on the page. I mean, it�s only a 12 page script after all, there�s not a lot to retain I don�t think. Don�t get me wrong I understand what you mean and you are not the first to be confused by it but I�m confident the story  ties up, it just may require a second read. Also, I think it would be a lot easier to follow on screen as any script which has multiple timelines overlapping can be  taxing read.


I agree that a second read would be more rewarding for this kind of story. It's like a Memento mystery though slightly more confusing because that one still had the whole premise made clear to us straight in the beginning. It didn't sort of creep up to it like you did here. I personally think you could really make this one work if only you made some essential things more clear. I understand you want to drop clues along the way, but there's a certain point where it seems like that whole process is completely dull and unnecessary and only the ending really matters.

I'm reminded of what Hitchcock would say about Mystery or Whodunits. You're so tempted to go straight to the last page to find out what happens but everything prior to that is essentially wasted footage. Lubitsch sort of parodied that idea as well Cluny Brown where the professor says he'll write a book for 150 pages until he reveals what happens on the last page and that it'll make millions for the couple, something like that. And he does just that at the end and they do

So try maybe giving us more information and dropping clues from there on out. Grabs the audiences a little closer and then drop clues to the end from there on out. Or you could always play up the suspense by showing more information to the audience than what the characters know.


Quoted from Colkurtz8

Cool, it won�t work for everybody, if it�s not your thing so be it. Personally, I love non-linear films when done well e.g. Pulp Fiction, Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind, Memento to name a few.


I like those kinds of films too. You just have to be careful how you handle the essential information, what you decide to tell the audience and not tell them. Pulp Fiction is certainly not a mystery. Memento probably isn't either since it's more of a manhunt movie but there's that other angle of trying to figure out who he is what he's doing there. We the audience know he's losing his memory ever so often so we know who he is, at certain points, and in a way we do learn more about him as he does but we know he's going to try and figure out what he's after (the goal of the character) eventually. The real twist only happens at the end. But there was no indication of it anywhere prior in the movie. So it wasn't really a whodunit kind of Mystery. And so I don't think it's really a mystery/whodunit.


Quoted from Colkurtz8

- Thanks so much again for taking the time to read this, James, and your extensive notes. Much appreciated, man. Just a shame it didn�t really work for you.

Regards

Col.


No problem. Don't get me wrong, I think you can really get this one to work much better. It's one of those plotting things that can sometimes be a bit tricky I know, I've been there before. I've written similar stuff in the past. It's never quite satisfied me and it gets too complicated for me to write the plot holes out of existence. But I think you can really fix this one up. Just some more exposition in the beginning would be a great benefit to your story.

If you ever do rework this into another draft let me know and I read it.

Take care,

-J.S.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 22 - 40
Colkurtz8
Posted: June 2nd, 2013, 2:28am Report to Moderator
Old Timer



Location
--> Over There
Posts
1731
Posts Per Day
0.31
James

Thanks for the detailed response I'll be taking your suggestions on board in future. Your points about the structure and build of the story are interesting, I guess its just a style thing, whatever works for you, we each have our reasons.

I'll keep an eye out for your work in future.

Regards

Col.


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 23 - 40
CoopBazinga
Posted: June 30th, 2013, 11:39pm Report to Moderator
Old Timer



Location
Perth, Australia
Posts
1175
Posts Per Day
0.26
Hey Col,

This was a good read and a very powerful story. I loved the non-linear structure going on here (which sometimes I don't) but it made this one all the better. I think the story would have suffered or lost impact by going the traditional route.

In saying that, I did become really confused in the last few pages and had to re-read one section when Daniel picks up the toy train. Other than that, the writing was good, lean and a breeze to get through.

Story-wise - only one thing stuck out to me in what is a great story and that was Patrick's decision to commit suicide in front of the wife and child. I get his reason, the guilt he feels but I didn't understand why he chose to do it this way and possibly scar the poor boy for life?

Otherwise, I liked it a lot - good work.

Steve
Logged
Private Message Reply: 24 - 40
Colkurtz8
Posted: July 10th, 2013, 3:00am Report to Moderator
Old Timer



Location
--> Over There
Posts
1731
Posts Per Day
0.31
Coop

Thank for taking the time and I’m glad the script worked for the most part.

Yeah, the timelines become a little more blurred and fractured near the end as events pick up dramatically and one timeline collides with another. I do believe it would work more comprehensibly on screen though.

The nature of Patrick's motivation have always been a big talking point with this and the first draft.

In Patrick's warped state of mind he is doing a brave and noble act which of course he's not, it’s a very selfish one with, as you say, major repercussions for those involved…but try telling him that. He has had enough of the life he ultimately caused so in his mindset, in order to give it some value or meaning, he’s "sacrificing" himself in front of them to illustrate his remorse. In his eyes, everyone’s a winner. It’s very misguided indeed.

I hope that goes some way to explaining things.

Let me know if you have anything on the boards.

Col.


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 25 - 40
RichardR
Posted: June 12th, 2015, 8:34am Report to Moderator
Been Around


Posts
889
Posts Per Day
0.26
Col.

Here goes.

Here we go.  I’ll start at the beginning.
You set up a depressed man who lives a crummy life in a crummy place.  So, when he commits suicide, it is any surprise?  Often, when someone decides to commit suicide, he becomes cheerful.  Decision made, there’s no reason to be depressed.  Also, often suicides clean up before they go.  They don’t want anyone to have to do it after they’re gone.  If it were me, I’d have Patrick buy new underwear, perhaps a new shirt.  
And we immediately start the time jumps.  OK.  Linda and Joseph work just fine.  Trains are great.
Patrick’s first line is awkward at best.  Why be so formal?  Simply, ‘What would you have me say?’ or ‘what should I say?’ or ‘what do you want to hear?’  Simple works.
And another time jump.  We met Daniel.  And Patrick has a good line.  He loves these mornings, as if he’s anticipating a wonderful day.
Another time leap and voice over.  You have an ideal chance to plant a seed here.  You can hint at what’s coming for Patrick.  A walk can be a ‘chance to clear your head,’ or an ‘opportunity to see straight.’  Something that will mean something at the end.
Daniel has a chance too.  Give him a good line.  ‘I clear my head with coffee.’  ‘I find I need only twenty minutes ready myself.’  
Back to Patrick at night, and who is he talking to?  Why talk?  How many people actually talk out loud when they’re alone?  Can you show how his life is going?  A past due bill?  A returned card from his former wife?  A returned card from Linda?  
Time jump and some info on Daniel.  And how about a better line for Patrick.  ‘I never had much use for public transportation.  I always drove.’  Indicating that now, he has a use for it?
The next scene is a throwaway.  What does it do for the story?  We will infer that she puts on makeup.  
Next scene is also not needed.  Patrick Isn’t talking to himself for his sake, it’s for the sake of the audience, and that weakens the story.
The couple has no real part in this, do they?  And why not have them shake?  Daniel notices the roughness, and then, Patrick explains and apologizes.  Also, you might consider having Daniel ask about Linda.  He notices the attention Patrick is paying and he asks.  Especially since Daniel sees Linda and Joseph every morning.  He just doesn’t have the guts to approach her.  Then, Patrick tells the story.
How does Patrick know Joe would have been a wonderful father?  The rest works, although what does Joe being an actuary add to the story?  And you have a chance here to reinforce Daniel’s character.  How about he spouts some statistic about how many married men die in an automobile accident before they turn 30?
Another kitchen scene with the same problem.
Do we need to see Linda’s car?
And now we get Parick describing himself.  Five years in the slammer.  And it’s not justice, not for a life, but then, he never intended to kill anyone.  It was an awful accident, no?
Show us how alone Patrick has become.  Don’t tell us.  
Next scene is needed.  Linda leaves so Patrick can leave his note.  And at this point, I’m thinking Patrick was dictating in the other scenes, but if so, show it.  
And you do show Patrick taking something off the table.  OK, at this point, I can buy that Patrick was making a heartfelt confession and mea culpa, but it doesn’t sound like it.  Why?  Because it’s about Patrick.  A true confession should focus on the wronged person, no?
I’m not sure Daniel would know the chances of surviving a train accident.  He might well know how many people die by jumping in front of a train.  But how many tried?  
And back again in time to the house and Patrick’s note.
And we jump a few more times before we get to the jump.  All needed?  Can we infer that Patrick paid his cabbie?
We go from the train to the incident between Daniel and Linda earlier.  Placing?  After the jump, everything should end quickly, no?
The earlier scenes should come earlier.  They give Patrick a reason to meet Daniel.  Is he doing Linda a favor?
And the final voice over.  Needed?  If it were more cryptic when first given, then a repeat would divulge Patrick’s true meaning.  But the lines are not cryptic, ironic maybe but not cryptic.  
OK, we’ve gone through the script, pretty much scene by scene.  Here are my last thoughts.  I think you time jump too much.  The last thing you want is confusion.  Yes, you want surprise but not confusion.  And if you’re looking for surprise, make Patrick much more circumspect in his farewell speech.  Show rather than tell.  
One of the problems I had with Patrick is that he decides to kill himself in atonement and does it right in front of Linda and Joseph.  Is that really the act of a remorseful man?  He traumatizes the kid even as he tries to help?  I might suggest that his real act of atonement is an old life insurance policy that he has assigned to Linda.  Since it’s old, it pays even in event of suicide.  Patrick has no one else to leave it to.  But you still have the problem of doing it in front of the child.  Not a pretty sight.
I hope this helps.  Much of this is very good.  Cut out some of the scenes that don’t add much, and perhaps make Patrick’s suicide more unexpected.  
Best
Richard
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 26 - 40
Colkurtz8
Posted: June 15th, 2015, 9:21am Report to Moderator
Old Timer



Location
--> Over There
Posts
1731
Posts Per Day
0.31
Richard

Thanks for checking this out.


Quoted from RichardR
You set up a depressed man who lives a crummy life in a crummy place.  So, when he commits suicide, it is any surprise?  


I hoped it would still come as surprise as the story unfolds and you understand what’s going on and why. There are obvious hints along the way and Patrick’s living conditions are a tell tale sign that this guy has given up but its more about the process, the final hours and deeds of this man’s life. The fact that he commits suicide is known to us but that is only the culmination of events. It’s the events themselves that is the main concern of the story. How these characters are linked and what transpired to result in what we’re witnessing now.


Quoted from RichardR
Often, when someone decides to commit suicide, he becomes cheerful.  Decision made, there’s no reason to be depressed.


You’ll notice there is a happy tone to some of Patrick’s lines, particularly at the beginning when he talks about waking up early and embracing the day. Also, at the end when he comments on the minuscule odds of him surviving a train collision, a look of peace comes over him.

In between that though as he relays the stuff about his cheating wife, the car crash and repercussions does his tone be wholly regretful and sombre...and understandably so.


Quoted from RichardR
Also, often suicides clean up before they go.  They don’t want anyone to have to do it after they’re gone. If it were me, I’d have Patrick buy new underwear, perhaps a new shirt.  


I never saw that as entering Patrick’s mind. Given his tortured mindset it’s really not his concern. On the other hand, who knows, he may have cleaned up that morning off screen...but I seriously doubt it
I do understand what you’re saying though. I think you can look at it a couple of ways, some people might get their affairs in order, buy new clothes, pay the bills, clean the house before doing it while others will be the opposite, let themselves go, stop keeping up appearance, etc...Patrick is clearly the latter.


Quoted from RichardR
Patrick’s first line is awkward at best.  Why be so formal?  Simply, ‘What would you have me say?’ or ‘what should I say?’ or ‘what do you want to hear?’  Simple works.


You’re dead right, Patrick’s delivery is stilted and formal. Hopefully this made more sense when you discover the true construct of that scene.


Quoted from RichardR
Another time leap and voice over.  You have an ideal chance to plant a seed here.  You can hint at what’s coming for Patrick.  A walk can be a ‘chance to clear your head,’ or an ‘opportunity to see straight.’  Something that will mean something at the end.  


I realise that is doesn’t seem clear now as you read but again, hopefully by the end you will understand. All of Patrick’s lines carry significance in the greater scheme of things.


Quoted from RichardR
Daniel has a chance too.  Give him a good line.  ‘I clear my head with coffee.’  ‘I find I need only twenty minutes ready myself.’  


I thought his line was suitably flippant and light to contrast with Patrick’s weighty chattiness. I’ll look at it again. Cheers.


Quoted from RichardR
Back to Patrick at night, and who is he talking to?  Why talk?  How many people actually talk out loud when they’re alone?


Again, this becomes clear further on.

  
Quoted from RichardR
Can you show how his life is going?  A past due bill? A returned card from his former wife?  A returned card from Linda?  


I figured I showed enough in the beginning by describing his dilapidated surroundings.  The returned cards are a nice touch though I may incorporate that, thanks. Although, I would think they’d tear them up and burn/dump them rather than go through the hassle of sending them back. Maybe I could show a returned cheque or something, that.


Quoted from RichardR
Time jump and some info on Daniel.  And how about a better line for Patrick.  ‘I never had much use for public transportation.  I always drove.’  Indicating that now, he has a use for it?


I feel the current line works fine as his comment about his car giving out carries extra meaning when we find out what exactly happened with it and why he must rely on public transport now.


Quoted from RichardR
The next scene is a throwaway.  What does it do for the story?  We will infer that she puts on makeup.  


It’s about process, preparation. I wanted to parallel Linda getting ready to face the day with how Patrick is preparing for his last day.


Quoted from RichardR
Next scene is also not needed.  Patrick Isn’t talking to himself for his sake, it’s for the sake of the audience, and that weakens the story.


As before this becomes clear. Plus, I didn’t want to have too much VO so I cut to Patrick, seemingly talking to himself or to an unseen person across the table, as often as possible. It mightn’t seem important on paper but on screen, depending on the actor of course, it would be more effective to show Patrick’s expressions as he relays his message.


Quoted from RichardR
The couple has no real part in this, do they?


No, just passersby but I always capitalize people.


Quoted from RichardR
And why not have them shake?  Daniel notices the roughness, and then, Patrick explains and apologizes.


This is to add to the somewhat off-kilter, disconcerting tone of Patrick’s manner, the fact that he’d even suggest they should’ve shaken hands. However eyebrow raising is it for Patrick to just randomly come up to Daniel and start talking to him like this, a formal handshake would have been even stranger.


Quoted from RichardR
Also, you might consider having Daniel ask about Linda.  He notices the attention Patrick is paying and he asks.  Especially since Daniel sees Linda and Joseph every morning.  He just doesn’t have the guts to approach her.  Then, Patrick tells the story.


Maybe you misconstrued it a different way but Patrick doesn’t make his interest in Linda clear until he starts talking about her. Prior to that he’s just looking down the platform (which I imagined to be both at Linda and looking out for the train) but to Daniel he could be looking at anybody or anything. I’d think that Daniel would presume he is looking out for the train.


Quoted from RichardR
How does Patrick know Joe would have been a wonderful father?  


At this point, Patrick is relaying the story as an observer, as if he read about so perhaps he might have been acquainted with him. Of course, as we find out at he was the drunk driver so I always considered this to be glorifying remark, it’s pure speculation on Patrick’s part but he’s almost saying to punish himself, to emphasise what he took away from this family.


Quoted from RichardR
although what does Joe being an actuary add to the story?  And you have a chance here to reinforce Daniel’s character.  How about he spouts some statistic about how many married men die in an automobile accident before they turn 30?


As you’ll have read, this is paid off later. It’s admittedly a little contrived and could easily be omitted. I thought it added a tragic irony but I may have overstepped it.


Quoted from RichardR
Another kitchen scene with the same problem.


I already gave reasoning for repeatedly cutting to Patrick’s flat. I won’t bore you with repeating it. I’ve done enough of that on other points.


Quoted from RichardR
Do we need to see Linda’s car?


Again, it about process and parallels. How it’s everyday and mundane (though that is soon to be changed) for Linda and Joseph but entirely different for Patrick.


Quoted from RichardR
And now we get Patrick describing himself.  Five years in the slammer.  And it’s not justice, not for a life, but then, he never intended to kill anyone.  It was an awful accident, no?


Yes it’s an awful accident but wouldn’t you still hold Patrick accountable? He was drinking driving on the wrong side of the motorway!


Quoted from RichardR
Show us how alone Patrick has become.  Don’t tell us.


The “show, don’t tell” rule of thumb is a good one to go by but in this case, given the nature of the scene, a character leaving a message, it’s all about Patrick explaining himself.


Quoted from RichardR
And at this point, I’m thinking Patrick was dictating in the other scenes, but if so, show it.  


I do...wait...


Quoted from RichardR
And you do show Patrick taking something off the table.  OK, at this point, I can buy that Patrick was making a heartfelt confession and mea culpa, but it doesn’t sound like it.  Why?  Because it’s about Patrick.  A true confession should focus on the wronged person, no?


This is a great point and my thinking has always been (since this point has been rightfully brought up many times before by others on this and the original version), in the warped state of mind Patrick is in he feels like he is doing the honourable thing by leaving this message, laying out how bad he feels, how his life has been irrevocably damaged too, and how he will sacrifice that life in front of them as a way to somehow prove his shame and guilt over what happened but of course it’s a woefully misguided and downright selfish approach. However, trying telling that to someone like Patrick and the headspace he’s in.


Quoted from RichardR
I’m not sure Daniel would know the chances of surviving a train accident.  He might well know how many people die by jumping in front of a train.  But how many tried?  


You’re right and you’ll notice that Daniel doesn’t answer him. Patrick is just throwing the question at him because of the nature of his profession but I don’t believe he expects an answer either.


Quoted from RichardR
And back again in time to the house and Patrick’s note.
And we jump a few more times before we get to the jump.  All needed?


I think so because this is the “hopefully it all make sense now” moment when we see the Dictaphone and Patrick finishes his message juxtaposed with him dropping the Dictaphone through the letter box and following Linda to the train station juxtaposed with him jumping in front of the train. This is when it comes together, the culmination of the three timelines.


Quoted from RichardR
Can we infer that Patrick paid his cabbie?


Yes you can, by all means It only a quick shot to show him entering the train station from the same taxi. A linking scene to help map Patrick’s movements, continuity for sake of clarity.



Quoted from RichardR
We go from the train to the incident between Daniel and Linda earlier.  Placing?  After the jump, everything should end quickly, no?


True, Patrick’s jump and Dictaphone reveal are essentially the climax but not every film must end on that. The post jump sequence bring the scenes full circle, close the loop. It where the earlier morning scenes (Linda and Joseph at home) join up with the later morning scenes (train station) I feel it gives a clearer picture of events as a whole.

Also, we understand now why Patrick picked Daniel to chat to. He seen his brief interaction with Linda and Joseph and focused on him to tell “a version” of events. Basically, I see Patrick as just wanting someone to talk to while he waited for his fate.


Quoted from RichardR
The earlier scenes should come earlier.  They give Patrick a reason to meet Daniel.


Yes, chronologically they are earlier as in when Linda and Patrick reach the station and like I said, they give a reason why Patrick chose Daniel to talk to. However, given the non-linear structure of the script we’re only witnessing them now.


Quoted from RichardR
Is he doing Linda a favor?


Not sure what you mean here, sorry. Are you talking about Daniel or Patrick? If it’s the latter then no, this won’t do Linda or Joseph any good but as I reasoned, in Patrick’s twisted mind he truly believes he is doing right by them.


Quoted from RichardR
And the final voice over.  Needed?  If it were more cryptic when first given, then a repeat would divulge Patrick’s true meaning.  But the lines are not cryptic, ironic maybe but not cryptic. ?


Well, it’s more irony I was going for or how these words that seemed so innocuous and positive at the beginning have now taken on a much more sinister and doleful edge. We now know why Patrick was so cheerful, so appreciative of rising early and facing this particular day.


Quoted from RichardR
OK, we’ve gone through the script, pretty much scene by scene.  Here are my last thoughts.  I think you time jump too much.  The last thing you want is confusion.  Yes, you want surprise but not confusion.  


I can totally understand the confusion criticism, there is a lot of intercutting here which makes it a challenging read. However, it’s all there for a reason and does make sense when considered. On screen, the switching back and forth between timelines wouldn’t be such a big issue but I’ll admit on the page, it can be taxing.


Quoted from RichardR
And if you’re looking for surprise, make Patrick much more circumspect in his farewell speech.  Show rather than tell.  


As I said, he’s leaving a message, that’s the nature of it, the character talks. My intention was that the Dictaphone would make it all worthwhile and one would forgive the talkativeness when grasping the true nature of the scene and why Patrick is doing what he’s doing. It will work for some, not for others and that’s ok.

CONT'D...


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 27 - 40
Colkurtz8
Posted: June 15th, 2015, 9:24am Report to Moderator
Old Timer



Location
--> Over There
Posts
1731
Posts Per Day
0.31
CONT'D

Yup, I waffled on so much that I couldn't fit it into one one post.

The writer doth protests too much, methinks.

Anyway, I'm nearly done. I promise.


Quoted from RichardR
One of the problems I had with Patrick is that he decides to kill himself in atonement and does it right in front of Linda and Joseph.  Is that really the act of a remorseful man?  He traumatizes the kid even as he tries to help?


I addressed this already in regards the skewed logic of Patrick’s (what he deems honourable) act. It’s a totally valid point and I’m heartened when people bring it up because its shows they’ve got more of a moral compass than Patrick who is so far off in his attempt at atonement. You’re right, it is a totally misjudged, damaging attempt at absolution.


Quoted from RichardR
I might suggest that his real act of atonement is an old life insurance policy that he has assigned to Linda.  Since it’s old, it pays even in event of suicide.  Patrick has no one else to leave it to.  But you still have the problem of doing it in front of the child.  Not a pretty sight.


I’m not aiming to give this a redemptive touch to be honest, that’s not the story I wanted to tell. Unfortunately, it’s mired in delusion, pain and regret, amongst other delightful stuff


Quoted from RichardR
I hope this helps.  


This helped a lot man, and thanks for providing such extensive and thoughtful notes. You brought up many perceptive points.  I particularly like reviews which comment as they read because it’s a great way to gauge on-the-spot reactions and how the reader is responding to your work along the way. Hopefully I was able to address some of your issues and clarify my intentions too.

Cheers

Col.


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 28 - 40
SAC
Posted: June 27th, 2015, 9:05pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


… but some dreams do

Location
Upstate NY
Posts
3201
Posts Per Day
0.79
Col,

Hello sir! Just read this now, and once last week. Let it sink in a little. I admire your work. However, with this one I am still trying to figure out the "point" of this one. Most of your others have a message I can relate to, this one not so much as it feels more like a sad slice of life piece.

One can easily see all the pieces that make this hold together. Daniel being an actuary, little Joseph and his toy train. But why? I'm big on certain "items" giving depth to the story, but did Joseph's toy train have any deeper meaning or just coincidence?  And I felt it a bit of a stretch that Daniel happens to be an actuary? Was that coincidence as well? I wonder if I missed something here.  I can see how that relates to the story, and it definitely works and adds meaning to what Patrick eventually does.

Hmm. Tell me I'm missing something here, Col. I wouldn't be surprised if I was. What it actually feels like, with this non-linear weaving in and out, is more of an exercise of your writing chops. If that is the case, I'd say you've succeeded as it is written very, very well. It doesn't miss a beat, imo.  Even the one issue I had, with Patrick talking to himself alone in the apartment, was clarified later that he was speaking into a recorder.  I loved how we saw that recorder laying just before the rug with the letters flitting on top of it. Extremely visual -- great writing. You captured your characters movements well. I enjoyed the scene of Daniel's relief as the train approached.

Daniel's relief? Hmm, now that's interesting right there.

Joseph's train striking Daniel's foot. You could read something into that, but I don't. It just seems like all these character are linked together on this one particular morning where it all comes to a head. Daniel's more like a wild card thrown in, the one true witness to Patrick's plan.

Overall, great writing. It works well for me regardless if I've missed anything because your writing style carries this along very smoothly.

Steve

Steve


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 29 - 40
 Pages: « 1, 2, 3 » : All
Recommend Print

Locked Board Board Index    Short Scripts  [ previous | next ] Switch to:
Was Portal Recent Posts Home Help Calendar Search Register Login

Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post polls
You may not post attachments
HTML is on
Blah Code is on
Smilies are on


Powered by E-Blah Platinum 9.71B © 2001-2006