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  Author    Rid of Guilt (alternative version)  (currently 6177 views)
Colkurtz8
Posted: June 30th, 2015, 8:51am Report to Moderator
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Steven

Thanks for taking the time.


Quoted from SAC
However, with this one I am still trying to figure out the "point" of this one. Most of your others have a message I can relate to, this one not so much as it feels more like a sad slice of life piece.


Yeah, it is mostly what you say, charting the final acts of a man’s life, the process of that. The decision he ultimately makes but also what came before which culminated in what we see depicted now. To show how these seemingly disparate people are connected in a major way (Patrick and Linda) and a more minor, coincidental way (Daniel and Linda/Patrick) but by the end are all inextricably linked forever because of what has happened.

I tried to drip feed the story and gradually create the context around it so to understand what is going on and why which only really coalesces in the final pages. I hoped the weaving together of these characters and timelines in a non-linear fashion would inject some intrigue, suspense and in the end, shock.


Quoted from SAC
One can easily see all the pieces that make this hold together. Daniel being an actuary, little Joseph and his toy train. But why? I'm big on certain "items" giving depth to the story, but did Joseph's toy train have any deeper meaning or just coincidence?

The toy train doesn’t hold any significance other then it being a visual link to the train itself. My thinking is that since he and his mother take this train all the time they have become a fascination for him, which trains do for a lot of kids. Although, after this experience, he may develop a phobia of them.


Quoted from SAC
And I felt it a bit of a stretch that Daniel happens to be an actuary? Was that coincidence as well? I wonder if I missed something here.  I can see how that relates to the story, and it definitely works and adds meaning to what Patrick eventually does.

I’ll admit that smells of contrivance.      It was to add another layer, an element of irony and coincidence that yeah, could only happen in the movies.


Quoted from SAC
Hmm. Tell me I'm missing something here, Col. I wouldn't be surprised if I was. What it actually feels like, with this non-linear weaving in and out, is more of an exercise of your writing chops.


Yeah, I was definitely trying to push myself in terms of structure and seeing how I could tell an otherwise simple story in the more intricate but more importantly, dramatically satisfying way. As you’ll have gathered, this is based on an earlier script which was just Patrick at the station confessing to Daniel the guilt he felt over what he’s done before pointing out Linda and Joseph on the platform and jumping in front of the oncoming train. It was linear and straightforward that built gradually to a climax. Where you only learned of Patrick’s motives near the end, right before he commits the act.

Here I wanted to take that idea but rework it in such a way that not only does Patrick’s motives gradually become clear later in the narrative (with the added misdirection of him telling Daniel it was someone else who killed Linda’s husband paralleled with his own guilt ridden message) but we also get to see Linda and Joseph go about, what is supposed to be, just another day for them thus getting the reader wondering what binds these people together. Plus, I was able to insert a sleight of hand in the Dictaphone reveal which plays a big part in Patrick’s preparation for his final day and changes our initial perception of those “night before” scenes. So while I can understand that it might seem like merely an exercise, all smoke and mirrors to obscure what is in essence a basic story, there were legitimate dramatic reasons for telling it like this too. Then again, you could probably say this about a lot of non-linear stories.


Quoted from SAC
It doesn't miss a beat, imo.  Even the one issue I had, with Patrick talking to himself alone in the apartment, was clarified later that he was speaking into a recorder.  I loved how we saw that recorder laying just before the rug with the letters flitting on top of it. Extremely visual -- great writing.


Thanks, I’m glad you were able to follow the switching timelines because I know they can be difficult to keep track of and make the read a little taxing. On screen this wouldn’t really be a problem though. I’m happy the Dictaphone reveal worked for you too.


Quoted from SAC
You captured your characters movements well.


Even though I know you’re referring to specifics, body language, expressions, etc, I’m pleased you mentioned movements because again, in the general sense of the word, this is about process and preparation. Some readers have questioned the necessity of Linda and Joseph’s scenes in their house but I think they are crucial in establishing the routine of these characters. That this started out as ordinary day for them. This extends to showing Patrick turning off the Dictaphone, going upstairs and turning off the lights. To the next morning when he’s in waiting in the taxi before walking to the door and dropping the Dictaphone through the letterbox. To him getting back into the taxi, following Linda and Joseph, exiting the taxi and entering the train station. There is an element of watching these unconnected lives slowly converge on a collision course, figurative and literally.


Quoted from SAC
I enjoyed the scene of Daniel's relief as the train approached.

Daniel's relief? Hmm, now that's interesting right there.


Yeah there is a tragic irony to that. Daniel is initially relieved at its interruption but of course he doesn’t realise how much of an interruption it’s actually going to cause. It’s cool you picked up on that.


Quoted from SAC
Joseph's train striking Daniel's foot. You could read something into that, but I don't. It just seems like all these character are linked together on this one particular morning where it all comes to a head. Daniel's more like a wild card thrown in, the one true witness to Patrick's plan.


Yeah you could read into the train hitting Daniel’s foot as portentous of what’s to come, in a much bigger sense but I didn’t want readers to attach too much meaning to it, it’s just a little touch. Think of it as a less overt version of the boulder in Sexy Beast

On a purely practical level though it’s a trigger for him and Linda to interact. Daniel is the wild card as you say, the variable, as his only link is the fact that he spoke to Linda on that morning. Since Patrick has just entered the platform at this time, I imagined he saw them talking so he chose Daniel as the one to say his parting words to.


Quoted from SAC
...regardless if I've missed anything...


- No, you got a good grasp of it and picked up on some touches that a lot of others haven’t so don’t sell yourself short. I’d like to tell you there is some overarching message or point or theme at work here but I’m not that clever, sorry

Thanks again for the read and you r comments, much appreciated, man.

Col.


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Grandma Bear
Posted: June 30th, 2015, 11:45am Report to Moderator
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I swear I have read this one before. Long time ago. I scrolled through the comments, but didn't see any reviews from me. I must be getting old!

Anyway, here we go.

I totally get what the story is about, but I'm wondering if the non linear way you chose to tell it is the most effective. The reason I'm wondering is because about halfway through or so, we know what's going to happen. That sort of takes away from the strong impact this story should have, IMO. The second half of the script, we're just waiting for Patrick to go ahead and jump. When he finally does, it doesn't feel like a traumatic event.

I also had some questions about reason. For example, since Patrick caused so much pain for others through his actions in the past, why would he commit suicide in front of poor Joseph? And, jumping in front of a train no less, which I can only imagine would be a rather nasty sight. Why would he insist on the little boy seeing that? IMO, that doesn't seem very thoughtful of Patrick who wants to do the right thing. Even leaving a recording behind for them.

I can't believe I would say this, but I think I would've preferred a longer better conversation with Daniel instead. One that starts out seemingly innocent where they talk about normal stuff. Then slowly it becomes clear that what Patrick has been talking about was something completely different than we first thought. Kind of like that first scene in Inglorious Basterds. Intercut this longer conversation with Linda and Joseph getting ready and finally arrive at the train station. Maybe Joseph drops the train on Patrick's foot instead?

Just me rambling. Trying to think what I would do, which doesn't mean it would make it better. A few suggestions, is all.

Powerful story, that suffers at the moment from the non linear telling.

Hope any of this will be useful. If not, just chuck it!  


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Colkurtz8
Posted: July 2nd, 2015, 7:38am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I swear I have read this one before. Long time ago. I scrolled through the comments, but didn't see any reviews from me. I must be getting old!


Nope, you’ve still a few years of cognizance before dementia sets in. I sent this to you on email some years back. Plus, you read the original version so that’s probably firing off somewhere in those young, healthy, fully functioning synapses of yours


Quoted from Grandma Bear
I totally get what the story is about, but I'm wondering if the non linear way you chose to tell it is the most effective. The reason I'm wondering is because about halfway through or so, we know what's going to happen. That sort of takes away from the strong impact this story should have, IMO. The second half of the script, we're just waiting for Patrick to go ahead and jump. When he finally does, it doesn't feel like a traumatic event.


I think it does benefit from the non-linear structure. This was expanded from an earlier script which was told very straightforward and although you don’t find out Patrick’s motivation until the last minute there I thought it would be interesting to see could I incorporate more of the surrounding events leading up to the act itself, to give a fully rounded picture while slipping in some additional layers of misdirection and twists along the way. The non-linear approach gave me that facility.

I don’t think its obvious Patrick is going to kill himself that early. Or at least I hoped it wouldn't be. Maybe you came to this conclusion quicker because you’ve read this before...or you’re just that sharp on the uptake I tried to obfuscate Patrick’s intention by having him tell Daniel it was someone else who killed Linda’s husband while he relays a decidedly different message in his apartment the night before all the while intertwining it with Linda and Joseph’s preparations for their day ahead.

At first it’s not clear how they are connected, who Patrick is talking to and how much to really believe what he is saying to Daniel. I hoped the reader wouldn’t grasp the full measure of things until those last pages when we find out that Patrick’s is essentially giving his last rites into the Dictaphone which is bound for Linda.

I intentionally switched back and forth, compared and contrasted Patrick’s “night before” dialogue with the version he tells Daniel the next morning. The idea was to keep you guessing and wondering up until the end but maybe I gave too much away for you and I’m totally willing to accept that. Thankfully most others didn’t anticipate the climax before it happens, they might have an idea what might go down but not how it will unfold.


Quoted from Grandma Bear
I also had some questions about reason. For example, since Patrick caused so much pain for others through his actions in the past, why would he commit suicide in front of poor Joseph? And, jumping in front of a train no less, which I can only imagine would be a rather nasty sight. Why would he insist on the little boy seeing that? IMO, that doesn't seem very thoughtful of Patrick who wants to do the right thing. Even leaving a recording behind for them.


I remember you brought this issue up before on both drafts so at least you’re consistent More importantly, it’s a perfectly valid point to make. My response now is the same as I gave then, that in Patrick’s warped state of mind, he believes he is doing the right thing by them, giving them what they want. Doing the honourable thing almost.

He talks of how they wanted him “to rot in there (prison)” how everyone has abandoned him so he figures he is doing the world a favour here, especially Linda and Joseph. For some people, suicide is synonymous with selfishness and Patrick’s can certainly be viewed in this manner. It is a totally self serving act in the end, destined to traumatise Linda and Joseph, but try telling that to someone like him, in his situation and mindset.


Quoted from Grandma Bear
I can't believe I would say this, but I think I would've preferred a longer better conversation with Daniel instead. One that starts out seemingly innocent where they talk about normal stuff. Then slowly it becomes clear that what Patrick has been talking about was something completely different than we first thought.


Clearly it didn’t work for you but this is exactly what I was trying to achieve both in this and the original draft. Patrick’s initial demeanour is cheery and friendly, his chatter is innocuous, I mean, he starts by talking about the weather! Then as the conversation wears on he becomes increasingly serious and disconcerting, his tone darkens, he mentions Linda and Joseph, talks of their past tragedy from a third party perspective before revealing the true nature of things, why he is hear and what he plans to do.


Quoted from Grandma Bear
Intercut this longer conversation with Linda and Joseph getting ready and finally arrive at the train station. Maybe Joseph drops the train on Patrick's foot instead?


This could work, to make a less intricate dual intercut. I guess I liked adding that third element and playing with the Dictaphone twist. Again, this is what the non-linear technique allowed me to do, hopefully make it a little more of a puzzle and, most importantly, provide a greater dramatic pay-off at the end.


Quoted from Grandma Bear
Just me rambling. Trying to think what I would do, which doesn't mean it would make it better. A few suggestions, is all.


No this is good stuff, thank you as always for taking the time. Like I said, I appreciate the consistency in your comments, you voiced similar reservations before and I respect them.

Col.


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HyperMatt
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This was an interesting short, with an interesting premise. Although I was confused at the beginning with the many flashbacks, jumping from the past to the future, it all came together at the moment of realisation at what Patrick intends to do. But it was engaging throughout.
On page 1, shouldn’t KITCHEN – CONTINOUS  be INT. PATRICK’S FLAT – KITCHEN?
I’ve read a lot of debate of the use of continuous in sluglines, some people think it is fine, some think you should be able to indicate if it is a continuous scene from the way that it is written. I personally would not use it.
How do we know some dishes have been at the sink longer than others? I supposed they could be drier or something.
I think there are too many flashbacks and flash-forwards after ‘the accident’ has occurred, but that’s just me.
How do we know some dishes have been there longer than others? I suppose they could be drier or something.
I didn’t realise at first that Patrick was talking in that scene, I thought it was a V.O. or something, but then we have the reveal that he is actually talking to a microphone.

I really like the scene where we realise that Patrick wants to jump in front of the train, and he tries to get some statistics from poor Daniel. That was a very tense build up to the accident, a page-turner.
I like the way you have Linda and the Son at the other end of the platform unaware of Patrick’s presence. That was a nice cinematic device, he is near but far.

Good work... and thinking about it, very appropriately titled.


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Colkurtz8
Posted: April 3rd, 2018, 10:56am Report to Moderator
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Matt

Thanks for the taking the time to check this out.


Quoted from HyperMatt
On page 1, shouldn’t KITCHEN – CONTINOUS  be INT. PATRICK’S FLAT – KITCHEN?


- If a scene transitions to another part of the same location, as in different rooms within a building, I don’t reiterate the building. Fairly common approach from the scripts I’ve read.


Quoted from HyperMatt
I’ve read a lot of debate of the use of continuous in sluglines, some people think it is fine, some think you should be able to indicate if it is a continuous scene from the way that it is written. I personally would not use it.


- Yeah, I see it used a lot while others don’t specify. Personally, it makes sense to me and provides clarity for the reader.


Quoted from HyperMatt
How do we know some dishes have been at the sink longer than others? I supposed they could be drier or something.


- Yeah, or what stage the dirt is at. How encrusted and mouldy they look.


Quoted from HyperMatt
I think there are too many flashbacks and flash-forwards after ‘the accident’ has occurred, but that’s just me.


Fair enough, I appreciate that it can be a challenging read with the jumping timeline but it all fits. This would be easier to follow on screen I reckon. It is also why I make the sluglines as clear as possible.

Thanks again for look at this, glad some of the reveals worked for you.

Col.


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HyperMatt
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No problem.
Didn't realise that it was written a while back.


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Colkurtz8
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Quoted from HyperMatt
Didn't realise that it was written a while back.


All good, I always welcome new thoughts on my scripts.



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Matthew Taylor
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Good morning

I have read this one, and the original - this one is worlds better.

This is already head and shoulders above my ability - so just gonna spit out my thoughts and see if anything is vaguely helpful. I am a little surprised this hasn't been picked up already - have you had any interest in it? - maybe the suicide angle is putting off would-be producers, or maybe it's the train.

The non-linear is well done - I had to reread slugs a few times to get my bearings but I think that's part and parcel of this type of story.

The two supers at the beginning can be cut I think - they don't help with clarity, if anything, they have the opposite effect (on me, anyway) and there are no more supers later on.
I get why you have them in, to appease the readers who don't like/get non-linear stories but I think (especially on-screen) they will detract too much.

Page 5 is where I realized Patrick was the drunk driver - I'm assuming that is the exact time you wanted us to know this info.

bottom of page 9 is where I realized he was going to jump - Again, it seems this was the time you wanted me to find out.

I get the feeling you overcompensate a little bit, to really make sure we get what is going on - and it might work for those who are slow on the uptake, but for the majority of the readers/viewers who are switched on, it might be overkill -


Quoted Text
INT. PATRICK�S FLAT � KITCHEN � NIGHT
The Dictaphone lies on the table.
The hallway LIGHT is switched off...complete darkness...

INT. LINDA�S HOUSE � HALLWAY � MORNING
The Dictaphone lies on the rug...A couple of LETTERS flitter
through the letterbox, rest on top of it


Here for example, we have already seen the dictaphone on the table, and on the rug - we have also seen him talking into it. Just seems slightly overdone.

If it was me (not saying I'm correct or anything) I would change up the order slightly.

I would have the actual jumping in front of the train closer to the end. I would have that right after he talks into the dictaphone "I hope you can find peace". If the jumping comes later, then the reveal of him planning to jump would have to be pushed back later as well.
I would have the scene of Daniel's brief encounter with the mother/son before the jump (More on this scene later)

Patrick, he's such an arsehole lol first for being drunk and killing the kid's dad, and now he jumps in front of a train in front of him? bloody hell, he is messed up.
This next bit I can't seem to put into words, so I hope you understand what I mean - I wanted to see more from Patrick.
He is obviously messed up - the accident, rather than sobering him up, made him spiral even worse into complete despair and depression. In this messed up state, he believes killing himself is the right and noble thing to do to help the family move on - great. but, Patrick feels a bit wooden about the whole thing, I guess I wanted to see more emotion from him at the end.
The only comparison I can think of is Colin Farrell's character Ray from the brilliant In Bruges.

If you haven't seen it - spoiler alert - Ray has accidentally killed a kid, and he obviously struggles to carry this burden throughout the film, but keeps it in, eating him from the inside (Direct comparisons can be made here to Patrick). It boils inside but the only time we see this finally boil over into an emotional outburst is the point when Ray tries to kill himself. I guess, just before the end, I wanted Patrick to have that emotional boil over moment- he's an arsehole, but he is human and overcome with remorse and I wanted to see it, that small glimpse of a redeeming quality.

Daniel - wrong place, wrong time - but he has no other bearing on the story other than just being there to listen. There is a hint of something more, the brief encounter with Linda, checking out her figure, but there is no elaboration (Which makes me think the encounter scene is unnecessary). I was hoping a third angle was going to creep in:

Daniel and Linda catch the same train, same time, every day--
They share pleasantries, Daniel wants to ask her out but Linda can't/scared to move on from the death of her husband--
Patrick, spying on Linda, see's this--
Now the "moving on" comment has two meanings, move on from Patrick being a free man, move on with Daniel--
Daniel comforts Linda and Joseph after the suicide.

Something similar to the above anyway, bring Daniel into the story rather than just being there.

Another thought just popped into my head - I'm just spitballing at this point - there's an issue with Patrick killing himself in front of Jacob, but it can be tied in nicely with my Daniel/Linda relationship idea and add a bit of tension and drama.
Patrick doesn't want Jacob to see, he basically gives Daniel an ultimatum - Try and save me, or go make sure the boy doesn't see - hesitation, the train comes closer. Daniel runs for Jacob and averts his eyes just as Patrick jumps. Now Daniel has been raised up a notch in Linda's eyes, he looked after her son.... or this that a bit over the top?

I did have other thoughts, but I spent so long trying to articulate the above I have forgotten them lol

Overall though I really enjoyed it, you are clearly a talented writer who knows his stuff and if nothing else, I have succeeded in bumping this thread lol

I would be interested in reading a feature of yours in the future, good stuff.

Matt


Feature

42.2

Two steps to writing a good screenplay:
1) Write a bad one
2) Fix it
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Colkurtz8
Posted: August 1st, 2019, 2:45pm Report to Moderator
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Matt

Thanks for checking this out.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I have read this one, and the original - this one is worlds better.


Yeah, the original draft is pretty straightforward. It was fun to mess around with it and complicate things a bit.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I am a little surprised this hasn't been picked up already - have you had any interest in it? - maybe the suicide angle is putting off would-be producers, or maybe it's the train.


It placed in a few contests (Top 10) and I had interest in the original version many moons ago but yeah, those reasons would hinder it perhaps. A clever director and editor could make the train scene work though without it being necessarily a complex and expensive sequence to pull off. i.e. have it happen off screen.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
The non-linear is well done - I had to reread slugs a few times to get my bearings but I think that's part and parcel of this type of story.


True it can be a taxing read which is why I made the sluglines as informative as possible, to avoid confusion. It would be less of a problem on screen I reckon.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
The two supers at the beginning can be cut I think - they don't help with clarity, if anything, they have the opposite effect (on me, anyway) and there are no more supers later on.
I get why you have them in, to appease the readers who don't like/get non-linear stories but I think (especially on-screen) they will detract too much.


Really? They were intended to clarify the timelines for the viewer. We start in Patrick’s apartment the night before so that can taken as the present time before we flash-forward in quick succession to two different timelines. I figured this would be disorientating for a viewer as they don’t have the benefit of sluglines like a reader does. I guess by the end of the film people will have gathered what’s going on timeline-wise so they could be removed but it’s hard to tell. It would depend how well it was executed in the production stage. Ultimately it would a decision made in the editing room.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Page 5 is where I realized Patrick was the drunk driver - I'm assuming that is the exact time you wanted us to know this info.


It's undeniable by page 6 but perceptive readers will have twigged it earlier I’m sure


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
bottom of page 9 is where I realized he was going to jump - Again, it seems this was the time you wanted me to find out.


Yeah, well, he actually does it on that page so...Before that I hoped you weren’t sure what was going through his mind but again, some will have copped it before it happens.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I get the feeling you overcompensate a little bit, to really make sure we get what is going on - and it might work for those who are slow on the uptake, but for the majority of the readers/viewers who are switched on, it might be overkill -

Here for example, we have already seen the dictaphone on the table, and on the rug - we have also seen him talking into it. Just seems slightly overdone.


I wanted to establish the Dictaphone in both scenes, in separate locations. It’s a major component of the reveal, in that he is not talking to someone but rather recording a message for Linda. I didn’t want it to be lost among the back and forths. Maybe I over compensated. For me, it’s the same with naming the characters present in every new scene even if we have followed them one room to another within the same location. It’s just a habit I have.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
If it was me (not saying I'm correct or anything) I would change up the order slightly.
I would have the actual jumping in front of the train closer to the end. I would have that right after he talks into the dictaphone "I hope you can find peace". If the jumping comes later, then the reveal of him planning to jump would have to be pushed back later as well.

I would have the scene of Daniel's brief encounter with the mother/son before the jump (More on this scene later)


I like the idea of juxtaposing the relative calm and ordinariness of Daniel’s encounter with Linda/Joseph with the pandemonium of the screeching train and shocked onlookers. I did try to push back the actual jump as far as I could but I wanted that coda of the day’s beginning, how it started off as just another day. Of course we already know by then it’s going to become anything but for these people.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Patrick, he's such an arsehole lol first for being drunk and killing the kid's dad, and now he jumps in front of a train in front of him? bloody hell, he is messed up.


Yep, it’s a pretty sick thing to do but suicidal people are ill. In Patrick’s warped mindset he thinks he is doing a favour, that this is what they would want. It’s like how families who go to watch executions of their loved one’s killer. Of course he will probably just end up causing more trauma for everybody involved but try telling him that.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
This next bit I can't seem to put into words, so I hope you understand what I mean - I wanted to see more from Patrick.

He is obviously messed up - the accident, rather than sobering him up, made him spiral even worse into complete despair and depression. In this messed up state, he believes killing himself is the right and noble thing to do to help the family move on - great. but, Patrick feels a bit wooden about the whole thing, I guess I wanted to see more emotion from him at the end.


That was by design, His “banter” with Daniel is indeed very forced and stilted. Overtly cheerful, overtly personal and just all around disconcerting. The fact that he would approach a stranger like that and have this type of conversation already raises red flags and would send most people edging away from him.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
The only comparison I can think of is Colin Farrell's character Ray from the brilliant In Bruges.

If you haven't seen it - spoiler alert - Ray has accidentally killed a kid, and he obviously struggles to carry this burden throughout the film, but keeps it in, eating him from the inside (Direct comparisons can be made here to Patrick). It boils inside but the only time we see this finally boil over into an emotional outburst is the point when Ray tries to kill himself. I guess, just before the end, I wanted Patrick to have that emotional boil over moment- he's an arsehole, but he is human and overcome with remorse and I wanted to see it, that small glimpse of a redeeming quality.


It’s ok, I’ve seen it a couple of times. Good film. In his own odd and cowardly way Patrick is remorseful. He talks to Daniel as if someone committed the act and he is just relaying the events. Part of that is to step outside himself and try to see it in a sympathetic light. Trying to say that the person served his time, lost everything, got punished for his transgression, etc. Some could say that is even worse but I tried to make it clear that Patrick is really only trying to convince himself and no one else. His final act tells us he failed. He is beyond redemption. His real apology, if you want to be generous about it, is conveyed in his Dictaphone message. It’s up to the audience how much absolution they’re willing to grant him.

The difference between here and In Bruges is that the latter film wants you to sympathise far more with Colin Farrell. Yes, he’s in an immoral trade but killing the kid was a total accident and it happened during the assassination of a paedophile priest (If I remember rightly) Thus, there is plenty of circumstantial impetus to feel sympathy for Colin Farrell. I don’t expect a whole lot of sympathy for Patrick here. Sure his wife cheated on him but his bad decision making and ultimate consequences far outweigh the wrong committed against him.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Daniel - wrong place, wrong time - but he has no other bearing on the story other than just being there to listen. There is a hint of something more, the brief encounter with Linda, checking out her figure, but there is no elaboration (Which makes me think the encounter scene is unnecessary). I was hoping a third angle was going to creep in:

Daniel and Linda catch the same train, same time, every day--

They share pleasantries, Daniel wants to ask her out but Linda can't/scared to move on from the death of her husband--

Patrick, spying on Linda, see's this--

Now the "moving on" comment has two meanings, move on from Patrick being a free man, move on with Daniel--

Daniel comforts Linda and Joseph after the suicide.

Something similar to the above anyway, bring Daniel into the story rather than just being there.


True, Daniel is more of a functional character, as you say, wrong place, wrong time. I had him interact with Linda/Joseph to add greater resonance, so he would have some minor stake in hearing their story after having just spoken to them.

Also, the unintentional collision of Joseph’s train on Daniel’s foot foreshadows what’s coming. I like the randomness of that. If they already know each other I would probably have to take that out.

Those are some good suggestions though. There could be some development there. I wouldn’t like to spell out “moving on” theme but it could be hinted that Daniel and Linda have spoken before, that they are acquaintances. Perhaps he flirts, playful, asks for that date she keeps denying him but she deflects it, plays it off as a joke, walks on.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Another thought just popped into my head - I'm just spitballing at this point - there's an issue with Patrick killing himself in front of Jacob, but it can be tied in nicely with my Daniel/Linda relationship idea and add a bit of tension and drama.

Patrick doesn't want Jacob to see, he basically gives Daniel an ultimatum - Try and save me, or go make sure the boy doesn't see - hesitation, the train comes closer. Daniel runs for Jacob and averts his eyes just as Patrick jumps. Now Daniel has been raised up a notch in Linda's eyes, he looked after her son.... or this that a bit over the top?


It’s a little much but I like your thinking. You got a writer’s mind. However, if Daniel chooses to shield Joseph rather than stop Patrick (whose right in front of them) from jumping...then what does that say about Daniel as a person? What were his motivations for doing that? To score points with Linda? Also, if Daniel just stops Patrick from jumping than he doesn’t have to worry about shielding Joseph from anything nasty so really he should only react in one way to that ultimatum.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I did have other thoughts, but I spent so long trying to articulate the above I have forgotten them lol


All good, you’ve already given me plenty of useful stuff. You got me wrestling with whether to develop Daniel and Linda/Joseph’s interaction into something more substantive of just keep it as a random encounter.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Overall though I really enjoyed it, you are clearly a talented writer who knows his stuff and if nothing else, I have succeeded in bumping this thread lol


Cheers


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I would be interested in reading a feature of yours in the future, good stuff.


Sure, we can do a feature exchange if you want. Let me know.

Thanks again for your detailed comments, much appreciated.

Col.


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Matthew Taylor
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Yeah, well, he actually does it on that page so..


I meant page 8 lol. When he first asks about his odds, it didn't click before that.

I don't have a feature for a review swap, I enjoy your writing and was just interested to read a feature of yours


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Two steps to writing a good screenplay:
1) Write a bad one
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Colkurtz8
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I meant page 8 lol. When he first asks about his odds, it didn't click before that.


Ah, right. I see.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I don't have a feature for a review swap, I enjoy your writing and was just interested to read a feature of yours


I sent you a PM.


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