Two Suns by Steven Clark - Short, Drama - An old man talks about the past, a life cut short, and what might have been different if he'd chosen the right path. 8 pages - pdf, format

Gotta say this one left me a bit bewildered.  One of those scripts I'll have to reread.

"Maybe it was sun dogs."

???

Hey Nick,

Thanks for reading. Sun dogs, as I understand it, is when, due to the amount of moisture in the air, an illusion occurs making the sun appear as three suns in the sky. I took liberties with the numbers.

Anyway, this short was something I wrote while rewriting a feature. We've gotten a lot of snow here in NY, I was feeling disjointed, and this short came about. Originally part 3 of a trilogy, I scrapped the idea as I felt this one could stand alone. It's certainly not my best, but I wanted to try more of a dialogue driven piece. I don't think it works really, and there are a few changes I probably could have made, but this is it.

Steve

Quoted from NickSedario Gotta say this one left me a bit bewildered.  One of those scripts I'll have to reread. "Maybe it was sun dogs." ???

A sun dog is an atmospheric phenomenon that creates bright spots of light in the sky on a luminous ring or halo on either side of the sun.

Hey Steven,

I really liked this. A sad story of what if. I can't leave you any notes since it's difficult writing on my phone but I'll get back to you tomorrow when I'm in front of my computer.

Take care,

Dirk

Quoted from SAC Hey Nick, Thanks for reading. Sun dogs, as I understand it, is when, due to the amount of moisture in the air, an illusion occurs making the sun appear as three suns in the sky. I took liberties with the numbers. Anyway, this short was something I wrote while rewriting a feature. We've gotten a lot of snow here in NY, I was feeling disjointed, and this short came about. Originally part 3 of a trilogy, I scrapped the idea as I felt this one could stand alone. It's certainly not my best, but I wanted to try more of a dialogue driven piece. I don't think it works really, and there are a few changes I probably could have made, but this is it. Steve

Ha.  Yeah I know a little something about feeling disjointed.  I.E. My Somalia micro-short series.  

Two Suns was an interesting read nonetheless.

Thanks, Dirk. Look forward to your comments.

Nick, I guess the rule of thumb here might be -- as writer's we always NEED to write...just not post. Not everyone will get whats in your heart.

Steve

Hey Steven,

Like I said earlier, I really enjoyed this. Just a bit confused on a couple things(maybe it's the blonde hair) but when Lloyd had the dream of the angel and the man in black, was he in a point in his life where he had just met Janice? Or going to meet her? I say that asking if maybe the angel in some way was Janice helping him towards a life with her and steering him away of bad decisions following the man in black. (Certain death). Also, nothing was mentioned of Kim after the accident, I'm assuming she was okay?

For a dialogue driven story it was good but I have to say Darnell saying the word "then" was starting to bug me a little. I'm curious to know why Lloyd would come right out and and tell Darnell about his dream. It felt a bit off to me. I understand they're just sitting there feeding pigeons when Lloyd begins his conversation but I think something would have prompted him to start telling Darnell out of nowhere about his dream he had. Maybe show the image of two suns at the start and Darnell is amazed by it. Or maybe have one pigeon black and another white to help remember his dream about the angel and man in black, thus starting the conversation with Darnell. Hope that makes sense to you.

It was heart warming and sad at the same time but you did a nice job with the execution of it. Nicely done! You mention above this was part of a trilogy. I would love to read the two other parts and see how this fits in with them.

- Dirk

I was partly confused as well. Did Kim also die? (Hence, the two pathways?)

I had it in my head that the wreck injured both Kim and his wife, and he (for whatever reason) could only save one of them. Car fire perhaps. And in the dream the angel is forcing him to choose again. But that's a whole other story now.   

Anyway, I liked it. Felt the dialogue spot on for the most part.

I liked this.  Not much else to say.  Good job!


--Steve

Hey Steve

Owe you a read...

I gotta say I enjoyed this one, the dialogue flowed very well, didn't sound static at all.

I was slightly confused as to why he had to choose a path, was the path's indicating the option of taking his wife off life support? If he could do it all again.

Overall, the story had a nice sentiment to it and pretty low budget as far as filming goes.

Good job

Mark

Dirk,

No, Lloyd had not met Janice at that point.  It's not made clear because I didn't really think it mattered much.  Yes, Kim is okay.  Again, I didn't think it mattered much at that point.  The two path represent the safer choices in life.  Lloyd took neither, he went out on his own and had to deal with the results, which were less than good.

I understand the dream comes out of the blue.  I was following the old rule of thumb "get in late, get out early."  There actually was a build up of dialogue that led to the dream, but I scrapped it.

Yes, there is a part 2 already in the can but I thought twice about posting it as I didn't want to flood the boards, and I wasn't sure if it was necessary.  So far this has gotten decent feedback, so I might post the other one at some point, in which the dream is explored more in detail.  If you want I can e-mail it to you.  Let me know.

Matt,

Thanks for the read.  The wreck, I'm sure, injured everyone, but only Janice didn't make it.  Like I said, it wasn't essential to the story to go into detail about Kim, so I left it out, as Janice and Lloyd's decision are the focal point here.

Steve,

Thanks.  Glad you liked it.

Mark,

Well, the paths were the safe bet.  Perhaps Janice might have lived had he chosen one of the two paths, but he didn't.  That was really the point here.  I'm glad that you enjoyed it, bro.

Two suns, two paths, two old men talking...all deliberate.

Don't know if anyone caught the Pink Floyd reference here.  It's pretty obvious if you're familiar with The Final Cut and the song Two Suns In The Sunset.  During the crash, the brakes locked, they slid towards a truck, Kim screamed -- all taken from that song's lyrics.  However, the subject matter of this short bears no resemblance to that of the song.

Anyway, thanks for reading.  If I can return any reads for anyone, please feel free to PM me.

Steve

Solid for what it is. Can't really say much that doesn't come directly from personal taste.

That said, I think it makes sense that someone would wonder whether or not Kim made it out okay. It's not clear and it IS important. If you think it's necessary to include Lloyd's daughter in  a violent car crash, I'd say it's necessary to point out that she survived. Otherwise, I'd remove her character entirely.

Other than that, not bad.

I'm finding it hard to figure this one out. What is the significance of having a dream at 17 or 18, and making a choice (or not) that impacts something in his 50's? Not sure of the relationship there. Shouldn't the dream happen during the accident for this to make sense?

Hi Steve,

That was a sad tale, it made me emotional. I liked the dialogue for the most part although there were parts were it was on the nose. The imagery came across really well with your descriptions. The horn honking that is not a car horn, I like the way you wrote that, it let me know what was going on but not in a normal standard way. Your script is littered with little touches like this which make it stand out.

I just don’t get the end or the parallel you try to get across with the Angel and the two paths. It seems to me Lloyd didn’t have any such symbolic crossroads in his life. The car journey and the accident was just that; an accident. It seems to me he couldn’t have done anything different.

I’ve no idea what sun dogs are though.

James,

Okay, I'll buy that it may be important.  Another instance where I stared at this (but not too long) wondering whether I should include that.  My choice came from the fact that Kim was thrown in the back seat at the last minute cuz it just fit in well with where I was going with this, and it makes the crash look a little more significant if there's more at stake here.  But I can see why one would wonder about her.  Seeing as Lloyd only spoke about Janice with Darnell, I guess I was just letting the reader assume she was okay.  If she wasn't I think Darnell or Lloyd might have mentioned her, and then the script become 9 or 10 pages.

Dustin,

Hey, man.  No significance really, but it seemed like a good starting off point --17 or 18.  Just starting his lifes journey, so to speak.  You might call it cautionary, the dream.  Him not choosing a path comes back to bite him.  And the dream has no direct link to the crash or Lloyd's decision.  It's basically a warning.  

Mark,

You're right.  The car journey was an accident.  However, a lot of us will relate particular
events directly to something like a dream or a gut feeling and try to find some sort of parallel relationship to it.  In Lloyd's case he spoke of having "no regrets," so apparently he was comfortable with his decision not to choose one of the two paths, but rather take an alternate route.

Thanks for reading, guys!

Steve

So he has a dream at 18. Then has a car crash at 60 or whatever which kills his wife. He's then relating this dream in his 70's while at the same time reminiscing over his dead wife.

I'm not really feeling it. I don't see how the dream at 18 is symbolic of a car crash he has at 60. He's offered two paths and he doesn't take any of them... and if he did choose a path maybe his wife would still be alive... it doesn't work for me. Maybe he'd never have been married at all...maybe he'd be dead... in jail... castrated and abused by a strap-on-wearing lesbian in a gimp suit.

I suppose this is a story relating to fate... always difficult to pull off, in my opinion, as it rests upon circumstance and superstition. I genuinely feel that for this to work the dream needs to happen directly during the accident... maybe he could have reached for the light himself, but chose to stay with his daughter...

Written very well though mate, nice work. Just my thoughts on it.

Steve,

I had to read this twice to understand what was happening.

A few notes:

• Your opening paragraph is overwritten.  You don't need to tell me that the buds on the tree branch signal the arrival of spring.  Just show the buds.  You don't need to say "yet several people are out."  Just show the people.
  
• Just a little nitpick:  You don't need parentheses and a comma around the age.  I use commas only.
  
• What does the honking horn and child's laugh signify?
  
• Lloyd's line:  "I could see her in that bed..."  Omit "could".
  
• Don't have Lloyd refer to the accident as "the thing."  Just call it an accident.
  
• I have a difficult time believing a 59 year old man would speed down a snow covered hill with his wife and daughter in the car.
  
• Don't tell me "they've hit a patch of ice."  Just show the car sliding.
  
• Instead of telling me what kind of horn isn't honking, tell me what kind is honking.
  
• Lloyd describing Kim's cry doesn't do anything for the story.
  
• I think you meant to use "incessant" versus "insistent".
  
• Darnell is kind of a dick bringing this painful story up.
  

In the end this is a tale of destiny, and no matter what past choices we toil over, our lives will play out how they will.

It was a little difficult to understand the first time, but the second pass made more sense.  That and looking up Sun dog.

Jordan

Dustin,

Well, personal preferences aside, anything could have happened to him.  But this is what did happen to him.  Whether it had anything to do with the dream is not provable in any way.  Lloyd never did say that if he'd chosen a path something else might have happened.  Darnell suggested it.  However, Lloyd chose his direction and this is what happened.  Did it happen because of his choice?  Probably not.  But, then again, what if..?

And thanks for the compliment on the writing.  It's taken a while to get to where I am, writing wise, and when someone says it's good it's a helluva compliment!

Cheers.

Quoted from Nomad Steve, I had to read this twice to understand what was happening. A few notes: Your opening paragraph is overwritten.  You don't need to tell me that the buds on the tree branch signal the arrival of spring.  Just show the buds.  You don't need to say "yet several people are out."  Just show the people. Just a little nitpick:  You don't need parentheses and a comma around the age.  I use commas only. What does the honking horn and child's laugh signify? Lloyd's line:  "I could see her in that bed..."  Omit "could". Don't have Lloyd refer to the accident as "the thing."  Just call it an accident. I have a difficult time believing a 59 year old man would speed down a snow covered hill with his wife and daughter in the car. Don't tell me "they've hit a patch of ice."  Just show the car sliding. Instead of telling me what kind of horn isn't honking, tell me what kind is honking. Lloyd describing Kim's cry doesn't do anything for the story. I think you meant to use "incessant" versus "insistent". Darnell is kind of a dick bringing this painful story up. In the end this is a tale of destiny, and no matter what past choices we toil over, our lives will play out how they will. It was a little difficult to understand the first time, but the second pass made more sense.  That and looking up Sun dog. Jordan

--Yes, opening is a tad overwritten, but not laboriously so.
--the use of parentheses is a little nitpick
--honking horn and childs laugh signify there's park-type stuff going on
--eliminate could?  Okay, you got me there
--I like "the thing"
--he wasn't speeding down the hill at all.  I never said he was
--show the car sliding down a patch of ice?  Okay
--show the horn that is honking.  Okay, could understand that.  I was getting cute, using a little creative license there
--I think describing his daughter's cry like it sounded like she was a child again adds a lot to the story
--no, I meant insistent
--what are friends for?

Thanks for the comments, Jordan.  Appreciate the read, bud.

Steve

Hey Steven-

Enjoyed the premise and the story.

The only suggestion I have is to interject something in the dialog that really gives a feel for the characters' age. Maybe a phrase or lingo that folks currently in their 70's may have used in the 1950's that wouldn't be used today, or even a mention of whatever medication they're on these days (a standard favorite of the old-timers), which could even be used as a transition into the dream ("Since I'm on the XYX for my blood pressure, I've been having the same dream...").

Bogey,

That's a good idea, actually.  I never thought of that.  I suppose I was too busy trying to figure out how all of this makes sense!  

Thanks for the read, pal.

Steve

Hey Steven,

I'm glad you got an actual script here to give you a read.

Also I'm glad that I felt highly comfortable here. The writing clearly steps above the language barrier. I can recognize a great choice of words here even though my English isn't strong. I felt every word was very thoughtful chosen and also brought on page successfully in case of rhythm and context.

I knew you got something to offer from Madison and Church, but I was not expecting this quality.

The characters, those old men are 100% authentic.

There is a line I wished Darnell wouldn't have said:

DARNELL
See, I don't know if I'd be able to
live with that. Something like that,
I think, would just...eat me up
inside.

But even this feels authentic cause old people often are open about their feelings and treat themselves in a way younger one's wouldn't. They're standing above the things of life, and your choice to write that line mirrors how good you know your story.


I interpreted it the way that Janice survived but Lloyd had to take her off life support as mentioned. I guessed Kim died too.

I'm not sure if Lloyd believes he better should decide between one of the suns/sides/paths to avoid the crash, when the sun splits behind the apex. And delivers it in his talk to Darnell.

I'm also not sure about the last line.

LLOYD
Maybe it was sun dogs.

I took it as a comment of a man who has done anything he could, which is, life the life. And not more. And so the dream and everything comes around as a really deep, but also humorous talk between wise men.

I have to say that I like to misinterpret your story a bit. It just gives so much of possibilities and sensible ways of viewing on life I can think about here.

The given space makes it bigger than it would be concrete.

I feel like I joined something like a test screening here. There are no changes, improvement I can offer. So I hope some impressions help you to identify your work from the other side. That's my taste of story.

Great script Steven.

Alexander,

Thanks for checking this out.  Your compliments are humbling.  Thank you!

I remembered your post from Madison & Church, as it was one of just a handful of positive reviews I got on that one!  

Anyway, the way I see it -- Kim didn't die.  But if you want her dead, then that's okay with me.  I'll stand by my earlier post that it didn't really matter much.

Lloyd's decision to not choose a path was just, I believe, his way of being an individual.  He flew into the sunset.  Read, he made his own path.  But he did that only because he was scared of the man in black, so his hand was kinda forced.  Now, maybe choosing a different path would have yielded different results, but I honestly don't think Lloyd believes this.  I think he's content with the way things have gone.  His sun dogs comment was in response to a question from Darnell that he never gave an answer to.  And had he answered that question, I feel his response would have been, "I wouldn't change a thing."  Actually, I know that because that was the original ending to the story.

Again, thanks for reading.  Appreciate it!

Steve

Yeah, Kim ends up in the way the audience decides by now. There's no conclusion, and doesn't have to, imo.
I was going for her death, because Lloyd told how her screams sounded and all that...

That the dream with two paths and decisions of life
and the accident with the sun splitting in two suns and all consequences "seem" to have a connection from the emotional, visual and symbolical way, is great

nevertheless I was 100% sure that Lloyd knows he's Lloyd and his life is and was the way he lives it.

( I understood that Lloyd flying away in the dream is a metaphor that he does it his way.)

When he summarized his life by mentioning the dream of when he was young, there's getting a whole talk out of it for him and Darnell and finally for us. They continue their talk and mix up with the accident happened.

This dream is Lloyd's example he choose for explaining his view, and his past life, to Darnell. They're finally talking "just" philosophy stuff like old men do, for me.

That there doing it in such an authentic way is what impresses me.

Quoted Text Ok. I saw something by now which I might misunderstood about Lloyds's last words: YOUR QUOTE: "His sun dogs comment was in response to a question from Darnell that he never gave an answer to.  And had he answered that question, I feel his response would have been, "I wouldn't change a thing."  Actually, I know that because that was the original ending to the story." Does he mentioned "Maybe it was sun dogs", because of the pigeons scattered? I have to admit that I first understood it in connection to Darnell's question, and Lloyd's reply felt like as if he calls it just out, humorous with a lot of self-irritation: The meteorological event must have a big meaning to him. Without it his family would have been still alive. He would have stayed in control of the car. I misunderstood it that way and felt he was very sarcastic here which felt still OK even that way, but when I watched over that part again now I builded the context to the pigeons, what also felt quiet sarcastic and at least lovable in the same time, but in a different context than I saw it first. You know what I mean?

The fine lines, that you go so close with the subjects without melting them together feels real and touchable concerning to the plot that wise old men talk about life. FOR SURE they take subjects which belong near to each other.
Darnell sensed that Lloyd wants to take a deep talk to him with the dream and so he mentioned the life support thing and joined that talk.  Just authentic.

Hi Steven

SPOILERS

Had a quick look. I haven't read other comments....

'Maybe it was sun dogs' - what's that mean?  I got to the end and then I thought, err..what's that mean? I haven't looked it up, you can tell  

I liked the two suns part - the idea it stems from an event, an image. What the meaning is, is another matter. For me I like the idea that someone could be attached to an image that is wrong, is a misunderstanding, that they either discover, or we discover. It seemed to me to be like that. What could make of that moment at that time, it that place? Misunderstanding adds emotional depth.

The two paths dream felt cliched, not sure it added.

Darnell is too passive. I understand why, the story needs a teller and a listener,  but it's one of those script issues we have to deal with. How do we make the telling of a story interesting and dynamic? For example, What if Darnell had been a ghost from the beginning and we knew that! We are the. Forced to think is he dead, or does he see ghosts whilst we hear the events, adds layers.

The accident. We assume the child dies, buts that not wholly clear. It's the kind of fact I would make clear. The story is so intwined with that moment it is a hole. The wife, I assume then lies on life support, he has to decide.

To really punch this needs a few adjustments, IMO, but I like the depth  and issues raised.

All the best

Hmm... Two people on a bench in a park feeding birds - That does remind me of something...

I thought this was going well until the script got vague about the sound of the horn. It struck me as the kind of device that works well in a novel to keep up the suspense but it's a cheat using it in a script.

The sound of the horn would be clear to the audience, enough for them to work out what it probably is.

All of it works well until the end. As most people here don't know what Sun Dogs means then there's a problem. The way they usually solve it is a dictionary definition at the start. Or the two old men explaining it clearly in their dialogue.

But I think you could write a much better end for this. It deserves it.

R

Bill,

Thanks for taking the time to read this.  Oh, and congrats on the success of The Grieving Spell, and for being highlighted on Janet's blog!

Quoted from Reef Dreamer Misunderstanding adds emotional depth.

Very well put, Bill.

Quoted Text The two paths dream felt cliched, not sure it added.

The dream is how this short came about for me.  It's the first thing I thought of before I started typing.  It's essential, I think, in that it relays Lloyd's feelings about how his life turned out, but ultimately it suggests that although he didn't choose one of the two paths, he still made a choice.  Whether or not one wants to read into that,  in relation to how his life went, is up to the reader.  I don't think Lloyd actually thinks that.

Quoted Text What if Darnell had been a ghost from the beginning and we knew that! We are the. Forced to think is he dead, or does he see ghosts whilst we hear the events, adds layers

That's a fantastic suggestion.  I guess my mind just doesn't work that way.

Quoted Text The accident. We assume the child dies, buts that not wholly clear. It's the kind of fact I would make clear.

Been getting a lot of that lately. Every time I say it doesn't matter, people yell at me.  So obviously this is something the majority feels strongly about.  Maybe I muffed it there.  Perhaps someone can tell me why it's so important.

Again, thanks for reading, Bill!

Steve

p.s.  Suns dogs are an atmospheric phenomenon that creates bright spots of light in the sky, often on a luminous ring or halo on either side of the sun.

Rendevous,

Thanks for the read.  

Quoted from rendevous Hmm... Two people on a bench in a park feeding birds - That does remind me of something...

What?

Quoted Text I thought this was going well until the script got vague about the sound of the horn. It struck me as the kind of device that works well in a novel to keep up the suspense but it's a cheat using it in a script.

I dunno.  Picture it on a screen, the family in the car sliding out of control on ice, panic and fear, then a disembodied horn--likely that of a big truck.  I think that adds even more suspense had I actually shown a big truck coming towards them.

Quoted Text All of it works well until the end. As most people here don't know what Sun Dogs means then there's a problem. The way they usually solve it is a dictionary definition at the start. Or the two old men explaining it clearly in their dialogue.

You got me there.

Quoted Text But I think you could write a much better end for this. It deserves it.

I picture a cut to black after Darnell says Hmm?  I should have put that in there.  I like that it leaves off like that, leaves you thinking.  The sun dogs would be confusing if you don't know what they are, so I understand that completely.  Hell, I didn't know what they were until I saw it on the Discovery channel a day or so before I decided to write this.  

Steve

Quoted from SC What?

Hmm... Two people on a bench in a park feeding... Oh, hang on. You meant explain it, not repeat it -

Just a throwaway an rather obscure reference to an old script of mine that a few may remember. Obviously your good self isn't one of them.

Quoted from SC Picture it on a screen, the family in the car sliding out of control on ice, panic and fear, then a disembodied horn--likely that of a big truck

I get all that. If the script said something like 'A horn honks but not like one that comes from a car.'

It's really not that big a deal, but if you mentioned like that of a big truck, or something similar, in the script then it'd work better.

I won't try to rewrite your script's end for you. If you got two old guys with a decent rapport this could work really well.

R

Quoted from R Just a throwaway an rather obscure reference to an old script of mine that a few may remember. Obviously your good self isn't one of them.

Point me in the right direction.  I'm interested to have a look.

Quoted from R It's really not that big a deal, but if you mentioned like that of a big truck, or something similar, in the script then it'd work better.

Point taken--makes sense.

Steve