CMH,
Interesting premise, I’d never have thought of it.

I thought the title CC World stood for Carbon Copy World, which I thought was intriguing given the amnesia theme of this 7WC. Your explanation was clever but you might consider spelling it out CC.

I had difficulty with some formatting distractions in your writing.

-- Underlining, it’s like screaming in your eyes.  

-- Use of capital letters definitely overdone. When the counter was capped as The Counter, I thought I had missed a character not a counter top.

-- Use of very, instantly, suddenly and other “ly” words don’t add anything to a narrative. Usually.  

-- The opening scene was hard to follow due to number of characters, getting the setting down, the capping and underlining of multiple words. Made for a busy looking front page. It started flowing better when the conversations dwindled down to Celia and one other person.

-- The conversations were long and didn’t move the story along until long sequences passed. Action was limited.

-- The dots weren’t all connected at the end so I could follow. How did Celia jump to the conclusion that Elle/Donella had killed her husband? How did the perverse copy of the magazine tie into this? How did Harry’s book impact the ending? How were the famers with guns involved? I know most of this is noted in the ending sequence, I just didn’t pull it all together.

I did like the conversations with the librarian in it. Good use of narrative there. Loved Celia’s last name.

All in all, not bad for completing a feature. That is huge!

I've heard the biggest differences are between the first and second drafts.

Gary

Quoted from Dreamscale Anthony, as always, when these sort of things pop up...

And pop up they do, it would seem, for Dreamscale.

AJR, we all know by now that Jeff is not shy about slamming a script with a mallet in each hand.  What you are trying to do here is understandable, but you fail in that you deliver your point with about as much tact as ol' Jeff himself.  You throw somebody on the defensive like that, how do you expect them to react?

That, and the fact that you have not read the script also diminishes your moral high ground.

Jeff, on the other hand, should make note of the fact that he finds himself embroiled in these debates more often than most -- so maybe there is a kernel of truth there that demands a bit more self-examination.

We DO NOT want to become a back-patting club, AJR -- walking around "good job!"-ing everyone.  (We got Circalit for that)  Negative critiques are important, so attacking a negative critique, in and of itself, should be reserved for the most extreme cases.

Jeff is a reading machine, which does buy him some (but not unlimited) leeway, but he also needs to realize that tacking an obligatory "please don't take this the wrong way" on the end is often inadequate to remove the sting.

Mod ruling:  Jeff is not in the wrong here, but working on a "softer touch" is nevertheless encouraged.

Led,

Read CM Hall's first post here and then let me know if she wasn't upset...

[bert's edit:  Led's post deleted as it only fanned the flames we are trying to quash here...]

Bert,

I was wondering when you would weigh in... (0:

If it matters, I've read three other scripts by CMH and they're in essentially the same style (I skimmed this one and noticed similarities). She has a talent for quirky worlds and quirkier characters, the other things noted by Jeff notwithstanding.

I'd also like to point out that she received two glowing reviews for her script Pears and Singles on Circalit, one from a winner of best script of the month who holds two masters degrees and teaches film, and one from our own Craigcf. So yes, I had a reaction to Jeff's hyperbole.

Anthony

I have sent CM Hall a Pm, apologizing for all this.  I haven't heard back from her yet.

Bert, A softer touch is most likely something I should try for...and I will.

Anthony, you continue to base your comments on prior efforts from Miss Hall, which I just don't understand at all.  What do they have to do with her efforts here?  Please read this script and give us your honest feedback in general, as well as the points that I brought up in a fair amount of detail, with detailed examples of what I was referring to.

Jeff, my reading this aside, there's just no reason to tell anyone - let alone an SS regular who's competed in a challenge - and after listing everything you feel about the script in great detail - that it's the single dullest script you've ever read. I'm sorry, I will believe to my grave that's it's just a plain crappy thing to do.

Then read the damn thing and form your own opinions!

Within everything, there is always going to be a single most...everything...best, worst, exciting, dull, action packed, dialogue packed, etc.  Basically, you're saying you wouldn't be honest when you come across something that falls into single most...

...and I disagree with that wholeheartedly!

Thank you for your questions and comments, your time and effort are much appreciated.

"The dots weren’t all connected at the end so I could follow. How did Celia jump to the conclusion that Elle/Donella had killed her husband? How did the perverse copy of the magazine tie into this? How did Harry’s book impact the ending? How were the famers with guns involved? I know most of this is noted in the ending sequence, I just didn’t pull it all together" (quote grademan)

Once Celia realizes that the Duff girls have brutalized her and tried (repeatedly) to kill her, she wonders if they were responsible for her husband's hit-and-run death, too.  She's in a state of shock, at that point, and my feeling is that her husband's senseless death is always in the back of her mind.

The perverse version of the magazine:  I wanted that in there to show that Donnella and Wendianna are cold, cruel people.  They ruin their father's magazine, shame the family and all in all make the world a worse place.  The other purpose is to show Celia's reaction when she sees the new version; she refuses to believe that Donnella and Wendianna had anything to do with its publication, although their names are on the masthead.  Celia can be very stubborn.

Harry's book was used to present Harry's theory of human behavior (that people don't get braver as they get older, they get more stupid) and to give Celia a reason to want to get away from him.  
Celia walks out of the Diner feeling angry with Harry and then quite lonely -- so when Donnella drives up and implores Celia to go with her, Celia is easy prey.

The Farm couple: when shots are fired in the woods, Celia yells out a warning to them, it's (almost) funny, because they're carrying guns, too.  

Hope that helps.  

Wow...when did this become the most popular 7WC script?

Hey Cathy, I didn't stop reading. I just caught up with work today.

But I still stand my ground that the first page is a "mess". Maybe "mess" is too strong of a word. What I meant is that you started off with the wrong step. A laundry list of characters is a no go. But it gets better afterwards.

SPOILERS....SORT OF

I'm up to page 36 after your first flashback scene.

On page 11, Celia calls Duff's Space at 5am. I'm not sure what time does the store open, but it couldn't be that early. So what was Wendianna doing there? I hope you'll explain it further into the script. If not, that's something you have to think about.

Page 14, good one. Finally we're onto some conflict and story.

Page 16, I think Elle is the first distinct character in the script. Sue and Lu are basically the same person for now. Same as Wendianna and Donnella. What's not helping is their similar sounding names, both end with "na" or "la". Although I can feel Wendianna is a bit reluctant and softer than her sister.

Page 18, "Elle sticks out her TONGUE at the bell." That's a funny image from a 70 year old woman.

Page 19, I don't understand what's going on: "Elle sighs dramatically, and rubs the WALL, as if to remove a spot, returns to hunt in Celia's desk drawers, and back to the spot on the wall." What's with the wall?

Page 21, I think it's better to end that scene after Celia exits. Those few passages about Wendianna and Elle's body movements don't do anything. They just take up space.

Page 29, it's a little too sudden for Donnella to change topic. She was in the midst of talking about the missing cash, which is the top-most concerned topic in the scene, so it's weird to have her jumping to Harry without anyone initiating it. Maybe have Celia said she's meeting Harry tonight. BTW, how did Donnella find out that Celia's meeting Harry?

Page 30-35, I can't tell how close Celia and Harry are. They sound like old friends, which they should be because of James. But then they're always talking about something that they should know already.

For example, from Harry, "We were like brothers -- myself and James and Conroy, that's Donnella and Wendianna's Uncle Conroy." This is pure exposition for the audience. How can Celia not know this?

There are more, from Harry, "When my wife died, that was almost twenty years ago", "Well, we lost the baby she was going to have and then Hannah, my wife--" And then a few passages down, Celia said she had visited Hannah's grave. So Celia knew all of these already, why is Harry being so informative?

And then Celia told Harry that Clark was Wendianna's father. Again, if Harry and Conroy were that close. I bet Harry knew about Conroy's family already.

All of these had me questioned Celia and Harry's relationship. How long have they known each other? Were they separated for a long time?

Now, over the 36 pages I've read, I found a lot of unnecessary scenes. By page 36, there should be something substantial happening that calls Celia onto a journey of some sort, but there isn't any right now. So that means you have to trim a lot of things to kick things started.

Right now, the scenes that I can recall are: Wendianna tells Celia to deposit $1600, Celia gets drowned, Harry meets Celia at her trailer, Elle's introduction, the argument about $1600 between Celia and the Duff's family, and the Diner scene.

The other scenes were a blur to me because they either didn't move the story forward or are just not interesting and unique enough. You need to have some special characteristics in each scene that sets it apart from the others.

All the others like the sleepy customer, getting and making coffee, the school bell, Elle's doctor appointment, and Elle pushing around Celia in the office can be trimmed or shortened. I still don't know how important they are, but if they're not, they're just taking up space.

I'll keep reading it.


Herman

Thanks for your comments and questions, it's all much appreciated.

The relationship between Celia and Harry is this -- they had a connection in James, he was Celia's husband and Harry's friend.
Harry and Celia were never close, in the past, but that's mostly by circumstance; Harry doesn't live nearby anymore.
Harry and Celia talk about who's who because it's common ground for them -- it's a typical thing for people (especially older people) to go over (seemingly endlessly) information that is known or partly known to both parties -- it can form or strengthen a bond between them.  That's been my experience, anyway.

One important element that I think I've failed to convey to you in the script is that Celia's rambling conversations are motivated, at least in part, by her refusal to remember the violence that was done to her, she continually changes the subject when Harry tries to inquire about what caused her to be in such a wretched state that first night when he saw her sitting in her doorway.

The Duff family members grill Celia about the lost money only because they are trying to figure out what she remembers about the night before -- their conversation is almost nonsensical because they keep trying to catch her off guard, in case she might be on the verge of remembering that they attacked her.  Again, Celia refuses to let herself remember that these people place no value on her life, at all.

This is what I intended to show in the story, anyway.

Catherine, in response to your response to Herman, I have some questions.

Why did anyone attack Celia?  What were they hoping to achieve?

Did they want to kill her?  If so, why, and why didn't they continue the attack until she was indeed dead?  If they didn't mean to kill her, why would they just beat her like they did and leave her there?

Why wouldn't/didn't Celia go to the police or the hospital?

If a 40 year old woman is brutally attacked and left apparently for dead, how is it that she didn't have any real injuries at all, to the point she went into work the next day like nothing happened?

I ask these things because I honestly don't know and maybe it will help to flesh things out more and add to the story.

Page 37, when did Elle appear in that flashback scene?

Page 39, when Celia calls from the dark, that should be O.S.

Page 41, this is not the first instance, but I'll list an example of over-writing here.

"Mrs. Dawn puts a finger over her own mouth, acknowledges that Celia can't talk to her. Celia finishes with her phone call -- Mrs. Dawn reaches over the Counter and squeezes Celia's hands."

You're describing detailed body movements. Instead, you can just have Celia motions Mrs. Dawn to wait. Then when Celia finished with the call, just have Mrs. Dawn squeeze Celia's hands.

You know what? Scratch that. You don't even need Celia and her colleagues to be on the phone. Just have Mrs. Dawn walk in straightaway. And you know what? Scratch that as well. Just have Celia and her colleagues enjoying the cookies at the beginning. Remember, start as late as possible.

Page 43, something wrong with that slug. What's INT. BACK DOOR? I think what you meant is to use a mini-slug BACK OF THE STORE.

Page 44, how can we tell Harry's driving down Ocean Avenue and not another street?

Page 44, Celia "hangs" onto the railings? I don't think that's the correct word. She's not dangling from the railings.

Page 44, you told me Celia is smiling twice. The first time she just smiles, the second time she smiles like a sea goddess.

Page 48, what's with the exclamation marks? Are they yelling to each other?

Page 50, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease, no more talking on the phone with the customers.

Page 50, the slug can simply be EXT. DUFF'S SPACE STORE - DAY

Quoted from Dreamscale Catherine, in response to your response to Herman, I have some questions. Why did anyone attack Celia?  What were they hoping to achieve? Did they want to kill her?  If so, why, and why didn't they continue the attack until she was indeed dead?  If they didn't mean to kill her, why would they just beat her like they did and leave her there? Why wouldn't/didn't Celia go to the police or the hospital? If a 40 year old woman is brutally attacked and left apparently for dead, how is it that she didn't have any real injuries at all, to the point she went into work the next day like nothing happened? I ask these things because I honestly don't know and maybe it will help to flesh things out more and add to the story.

Here are my thoughts:
Celia, like so many people, is attacked not for any particular reason but because she is there.
The brutality starts as a result of Wendianna's childish yanking on the deposit pouch as Celia is on her way to the bank -- Celia starts to fall toward Wendianna and -- instead of helping Celia to her feet, Wendianna takes the opportunity to throw Celia to the ground.
This is odd behavior, for sure, but it happens.  When Celia is down on the ground and helpless, Donnella kicks her, mercilessly.  My thought is that the Duff sisters have anger issues.  
I don't think that it's important for the audience to know why they attack her, just that it was easy to do and it was probably unplanned.

Celia's worst injuries are probably the blows to her head and the fact that her head was held under water.   Celia has visible bruises that are mentioned in the script but no one discusses this; the Duff family choose to bait her with questions about the missing money and the other women she works with show evidence that they don't want to get involved.
Celia doesn't go to the police because she represses knowledge of the attack, it's a blank to her, she doesn't remember it.

Forty year old women can be quite strong and fit and limber-- mention is made of Celia having ballet-like movements and that she takes long walks almost every day.

Hope this helps.  Again, thank you for your questions and comments.

Quoted from c m hall Harry and Celia were never close, in the past, but that's mostly by circumstance; Harry doesn't live nearby anymore.

But the scene (p.7) where they first met never alluded us to that. I mean, Celia wasn't even remotely surprised that Harry came. And then they started talking about such personal and painful things. I was thinking, they gotta be old and close friends to be like that.

Quoted from c m hall Harry and Celia talk about who's who because it's common ground for them -- it's a typical thing for people (especially older people) to go over (seemingly endlessly) information that is known or partly known to both parties -- it can form or strengthen a bond between them.

I'm sure these things happen in real life, but unfortunately, not in reel life. It just feels very heavy-handed with expositions. Try to do them visually. Like the picture that Harry showed to Celia was good. Without a single word, we know those three guys were good friends.

Another way to mask exposition is to do them through conflicts. Like during an argument, especially when one person is seeking the information. This way, you achieve two things at once: conflict and exposition.

Quoted from c m hall Celia's rambling conversations are motivated, at least in part, by her refusal to remember the violence that was done to her, she continually changes the subject when Harry tries to inquire about what caused her to be in such a wretched state that first night when he saw her sitting in her doorway.

Where was that? I never came across Harry asking Celia about what happened that night. He just told her that she's all muddy.

Quoted from c m hall The Duff family members grill Celia about the lost money only because they are trying to figure out what she remembers about the night before -- their conversation is almost nonsensical because they keep trying to catch her off guard, in case she might be on the verge of remembering that they attacked her.

Unfortunately, this just goes over my head. I understand that the Duff is up to something and I thought they want to blame Celia for the missing money. So that's why I didn't understand why the Duff change topic all of a sudden.

If you want to do what you intended, you should have a scene where the Duff talk to each other like: "Do you think she remembers?" "I don't know, we'll find out". Something to that effect.

Cheers.

Quoted from c m hall Celia, like so many people, is attacked not for any particular reason but because she is there. I don't think that it's important for the audience to know why they attack her, just that it was easy to do and it was probably unplanned.

I completely disagree with you. Everything in a script is planned. Everything has a cause and effect. Not random.

The attack is on page 5, so we'd think this is the event that get things started. And we will question the motivation of the attack, thinking the reason behind it is the driving force of the entire story. Especially the attack is from the two antagonists.

If the incident that causes Celia to be amnesiac is a car accident or something, that'd be fine because it wasn't caused by any main characters. But it'd be even better if the accident is related in the story.

[quote=coding]

"But the scene (p.7) where they first met never alluded us to that. I mean, Celia wasn't even remotely surprised that Harry came. And then they started talking about such personal and painful things. I was thinking, they gotta be old and close friends to be like that."quote Herman

Again, the scene where Harry and Celia first speak, in the script,  follows soon after the attack on Celia.  She's not even remotely sure where she is or what's going on.  Harry mistakenly thinks she's just drunk or high and tries to help her as best he can.

"I'm sure these things happen in real life, but unfortunately, not in reel life.
It just feels very heavy-handed with expositions. Try to do them visually. Like the picture that Harry showed to Celia was good. Without a single word, we know those three guys were good friends."quote Herman

Again, I may be writing for an audience that doesn't exit.  Or anyway, might be very difficult to find.

"Another way to mask exposition is to do them through conflicts. Like during an argument, especially when one person is seeking the information. This way, you achieve two things at once: conflict and exposition.

Where was that? I never came across Harry asking Celia about what happened that night. He just told her that she's all muddy."quote Herman

Celia notices and remarks that she's all muddy.  Harry tries to introduce the subject of "what happened to her that night" on several occasions when they meet in the next few days.  He makes mention of his own history of bar-hopping and he mistakenly thinks that Celia is trying to drown her sorrows.


"Unfortunately, this just goes over my head. I understand that the Duff is up to something and I thought they want to blame Celia for the missing money. So that's why I didn't understand why the Duff change topic all of a sudden.
If you want to do what you intended, you should have a scene where the Duff talk to each other like: "Do you think she remembers?" "I don't know, we'll find out". Something to that effect.

Cheers." end quote Herman

Well, that's something else to think about.  

With hope that I've addressed your questions adequately, best wishes.  I'll certainly make a point to read your script as soon as possible.