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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Thriller Scripts  ›  C. C. World - 7WC Moderators: bert
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  Author    C. C. World - 7WC  (currently 5247 views)
c m hall
Posted: September 6th, 2010, 9:57pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Coding Herman


I completely disagree with you. Everything in a script is planned. Everything has a cause and effect. Not random." quote Herman

Of course, I planned that the attack would happen, but the sisters did not.  Things just got out of control and they beat Celia, quite harshly.  (reply by CMH)

"The attack is on page 5, so we'd think this is the event that get things started. And we will question the motivation of the attack, thinking the reason behind it is the driving force of the entire story. Especially the attack is from the two antagonists.

If the incident that causes Celia to be amnesiac is a car accident or something, that'd be fine because it wasn't caused by any main characters. But it'd be even better if the accident is related in the story.
end quote Herman

The audience is being asked to consider that a brutal attack is made on a woman and there was no good reason for it.  As the story develops, it is revealed that Wendianna and Donnella are not nice, caring people.   If the audience can't accept that idea, then I guess the box office sales will not be so very good. (reply by CMH)
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 6th, 2010, 10:25pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah, I was actually going to post something very similar to what Herman is saying.  It just doesn't make any sense at all.

The "attack" is on page 5 and it is pretty clear what goes down and how.  It actually is a double attack as in there are 2 separate occasions when Celia is beat down.

It's also pretty clear that the intent is to kill her for some reason.  There's a line of dialogue about "is there enough water?", as in enough water for her to drown.  If that's the case, there has to be a meaning and reason for this all of a sudden.  I mean, these girls have worked together for what, 10 years or something?  Then, all of a sudden, for no reason at all, 2 separate characters try to kill their co-employee, but don't see it through for some reason, and then don't seem to do anything about it after the fact.

I also agree with what Herman is saying about when Harry comes into the picture.  There's nothing at all referencing that Celia has been in a life threatening altercation...twice, and left for dead, other than she's muddy.  

Catherine, the beauty of something like this is that we can all help each other throughout the entire writing process...from conception, through writing, and then in brainstorming for rewrites.

As I said originally, this just doesn't make any sense at all in a logical standpoint.  Your answers to Herman and my questions about it don't seem to shed any light on it either.  We're just trying to help here, and let you know what we see inside what you wrote.

Hope this makes sense.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: September 6th, 2010, 10:33pm Report to Moderator
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31 posts already!

Damn. I guess this thing is hot!  

I'll be on my best reading behavior tomorrow. Have been on a mini vacation!  


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c m hall
Posted: September 6th, 2010, 10:55pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
"Yeah, I was actually going to post something very similar to what Herman is saying.  It just doesn't make any sense at all.

The "attack" is on page 5 and it is pretty clear what goes down and how.  It actually is a double attack as in there are 2 separate occasions when Celia is beat down.

It's also pretty clear that the intent is to kill her for some reason.  There's a line of dialogue about "is there enough water?", as in enough water for her to drown.  If that's the case, there has to be a meaning and reason for this all of a sudden.  I mean, these girls have worked together for what, 10 years or something?  Then, all of a sudden, for no reason at all, 2 separate characters try to kill their co-employee, but don't see it through for some reason, and then don't seem to do anything about it after the fact." end quote dreamscale

Yes, that's the story.  


"I also agree with what Herman is saying about when Harry comes into the picture.  There's nothing at all referencing that Celia has been in a life threatening altercation...twice, and left for dead, other than she's muddy." end quote dreamscale

I think it ought to be clear to the reader, or to the audience that Celia has been attacked, because they have witnessed it.  Harry, however, has not witnessed it, so he does not know about it.  He does, however, know that something is wrong; Celia's appearance and her manner give him that information.

"Catherine, the beauty of something like this is that we can all help each other throughout the entire writing process...from conception, through writing, and then in brainstorming for rewrites."

Yes, that's the idea.  It's a great idea.  


"As I said originally, this just doesn't make any sense at all in a logical standpoint.  Your answers to Herman and my questions about it don't seem to shed any light on it either.  We're just trying to help here, and let you know what we see inside what you wrote.

Hope this makes sense.
"

I think you've made your points, and I have addressed them to the best of my ability.  
I look forward to reading your screenplay in the near future.  
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 7th, 2010, 12:30am Report to Moderator
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OK, I'll move on then.  Wasn't trying to be repetitive.  Sorry.
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Coding Herman
Posted: September 7th, 2010, 10:27am Report to Moderator
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Hi Catherine, it's me again. This is the finale of my review. I'm sorry I took so many posts to do that, but I'm a slow reader and I just wanted to get my thoughts on the page right away.

Anyway, from the tone in my previous posts, I guess it's not a surprise that I'm with Jeff on this one.

The major problem is the lack of direction. Ask yourself, what do you want Celia to achieve by the end? What's her goal and motivation? Who and what are in her way?

Right now, we just caught a glimpse of Celia's life and all these events didn't come together at the end. For examples, the attack on Celia, the missing $1600, the saving of Ophilia, the front door buzzing, Harry's book, Jame's death, the toxic iron mills, and more.

The only thing that is remotely related to the story is the magazine Cold Cruel World, but that was underdeveloped due to the so many different story threads.

IMO, the story is only, at most, 20 pages long but is stretched to over 90.

The logline isn't representative of the script. From your logline, I thought the Duff are trying to get rid of Celia, and that's why they blame her for the missing $1600. But that's just the first quarter of the script and this storyline wasn't brought up at all afterward.

There are also many things that don't make sense in the second half of the script.

How come the Librarian got so chummy with Harry in such a short time? I mean, they went to the Diner together. Doesn't the Librarian have to work?

Celia's sexual approach is too sudden. This is her first time inviting Harry into her trailer, and they weren't really romantically involved at the time, so I don't think she'll be asking for sex. Her behavior makes me have second thoughts on her character.

When Donnella picked up Celia, I thought, finally we're onto some action and story. But then it took a strange turn into testing soil for toxic materials?! What for? What was Donnella trying to achieve here?

The most unbelievable thing happened in the woods. Is Celia a monkey or Tarzan? It's not about whether a 40 year old woman can do, is about whether she should do. She was depicted as a nice and sort of weak woman for the previous 70 pages. So this just comes out of her character.

I was also confused with that scene. Who fired the first shot? I thought it was the farm man and woman. But then you said they're the ones who respond to the first shot. Who's hacking Celia's tree with the ax?

I'm no expert on cell phone, but does it work after it got into the water?

I didn't like how you told us that Celia's trailer is a block away, around the corner.

The Celia's attack flashback scene doesn't match with what happened on page 5.  So the Duff sister beat up Celia for good, and then what I looked back at page 5, it was Donnella who told Wendianna to come and take a look at Celia. Didn't they know what happen already? They beat her up!

I'm also utterly confused with the finale. What is everyone doing there? Who are shooting who? Why are they doing that? What causes Celia to ask whether the Duff sister killed James? Wasn't James killed in a hit-and-run?

I think what you need to do is to get rid of all those talky scenes and story threads that don't contribute to your main story. You also need to put in more relevant scenes so that we can connect the dots as to what happened.

But the first thing you should do is to explain what is the story you wanna tell.


Herman


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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c m hall
Posted: September 7th, 2010, 11:29am Report to Moderator
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Coding Herman, I understand that you don't like my screenplay and you've given many, many examples of things that you think are wrong with it.  I appreciate your time and the effort that you put in, reading it.

We have a very, very different perspective on human behavior.  Let's just leave it at that.  

Again, your time and effort are appreciated.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 7th, 2010, 11:45am Report to Moderator
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Catherine, I know I said I'd move on, but this entire thread just has me baffled.  I totally don't get it.

You've had 2 people read your script, who have both tried to help and ask many questions, trying to clarify things that don't make any sense, and for some reason, you have a problem answering the questions.  What am I missing here?

As I said earlier, this 7WC is so cool, because it allows each writer access to the entire group for help, support, and follow up.  You don't seem to want any of the help or follow up, and won't even answer simple questions posed about the script that we both spent 2-3 hours reading and formulating comments on.

I'm going to end this with 1 more question...just for clarity's sake.

What is your perspective on human behavior, anyway?
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seamus19382
Posted: September 7th, 2010, 11:56am Report to Moderator
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Jeff, just let it go.

I'm not trying to start a fight with you, I'm not trying to insult you, but at this point, you're just badgering her for badgering's sake.  

You've had your say.  Move on.  

And I think yours is the next one I'm reading.  Get ready for that ass whupping!  
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seamus19382
Posted: September 7th, 2010, 2:21pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Catherine!  As to everybody, congratulations on getting this done.  Writing a screenplay in seven weeks is a real accomplishment.  NIcely done!

I really like the relationship between Celia and Harry.  It needs work, and a couple of beats need polish, but it's sweet nd tender and heartfelt, and is definitely a spine to hang a movie on.

The rest, unfortunately, is a bit muddled.  I think you're circling around the idea of a really good thriller.   Porn puts you in the Raymond CHandler, LA Confidential, Dragnet territory, and thats not a bad place to be.

I think you need to get the magazine in quicker, and you need to develop it more fully.  I'm assuming the $1,600, the James/Conroy murder mmistake, and Celia being in danger all have to do with the magazine, but I'm not sure why.  

And when you introduced Ophelia, I thought Celia was going to discover that she was in the magazine, and that would let to the confrontation at the end.  Instead, Ophelia just kind of disappears.

Also, I think you have too many characters.  You should definitely lose on, if not both of Lu and Sue.  They don't really do anything for the stoy.  

Like I said, this definitely needs some work, but I think there's a story here that's worth putting the work into.
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khamanna
Posted: September 10th, 2010, 2:20pm Report to Moderator
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Hi C M Hall,

Read your screenplay - I started taking notes at the beginning but then I stopped and just enjoyed reading it. Because it's a Cinderella story is it not? Cinderella of age. Celia is your Cinderella - the set up, everything fits, everything? I'm sure I'm not mistaken about that, why didn't you say it's Cinderella remake though?

Anyway here's what I put down:

p1 - I wouldn't describe their hair.
Wendianna talks first, maybe you better introduce her first then. Is any of them your main character? I can't see your main character and I think you have to make it clear on the very first page.
p2 Your dialog is good - stuff in parenthesis is not that needed, I think.
I think if you have character lines twice in a row you could break it with the line of action (Donnella speaks twice in a row)
p12 I don't understand this "If she's still i there, we're not supposed to find her"
This is my first 7WC script  that's not about a couple and that's refreshing. Interesting too.
p14,15,16 - thier dialog could be cut in half, I think.
p22 - there's a lot of small movement/description of the small movement and small talk on this page (and throughout) for me. (same goes for mine - I'll tend to that in my rewrite btw).
p29 - I really like the love story progression between Celia and Harry. I'm on page 42 and I just realized that I've missed your first act break. (you didn't do it in three acts then?) Also there's no clear cut goal so I don't know where it's going. I'm sure you'll introduce one later - perhaps Celia acknowledges the meanness of "her step-sisters and step-mother" and starts acting - but I think it should happen now.
p42 - Now I'm sure it's a Cinderella story!

Not for everyone - it's a girly story after all. Great premise! Very original, i think.
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RayW
Posted: September 10th, 2010, 2:32pm Report to Moderator
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LOL, Khamanna!

I'm on page 30 and thought that about fifteen pages ago.
(Got a jump start on it due to the croup going around the household. Hack! Cough! Ugh!)

In fact, at the moment I have the Disney movie pulled up on wiki looking at the two daughters' names just to check n see.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella_(1950_film)



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c m hall
Posted: September 10th, 2010, 7:13pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from seamus19382
Hey Catherine!  As to everybody, congratulations on getting this done.  Writing a screenplay in seven weeks is a real accomplishment.  NIcely done!

I really like the relationship between Celia and Harry.  It needs work, and a couple of beats need polish, but it's sweet nd tender and heartfelt, and is definitely a spine to hang a movie on.

The rest, unfortunately, is a bit muddled.  I think you're circling around the idea of a really good thriller.   Porn puts you in the Raymond CHandler, LA Confidential, Dragnet territory, and thats not a bad place to be.

I think you need to get the magazine in quicker, and you need to develop it more fully.  I'm assuming the $1,600, the James/Conroy murder mmistake, and Celia being in danger all have to do with the magazine, but I'm not sure why.  

And when you introduced Ophelia, I thought Celia was going to discover that she was in the magazine, and that would let to the confrontation at the end.  Instead, Ophelia just kind of disappears.

Also, I think you have too many characters.  You should definitely lose on, if not both of Lu and Sue.  They don't really do anything for the stoy.  

Like I said, this definitely needs some work, but I think there's a story here that's worth putting the work into.


Thanks very much for your thoughts and comments,  there is certainly merit in considering everything you say.
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c m hall
Posted: September 10th, 2010, 7:24pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from khamanna
Hi C M Hall,

Read your screenplay - I started taking notes at the beginning but then I stopped and just enjoyed reading it. Because it's a Cinderella story is it not? Cinderella of age. Celia is your Cinderella - the set up, everything fits, everything? I'm sure I'm not mistaken about that, why didn't you say it's Cinderella remake though?

Anyway here's what I put down:

p1 - I wouldn't describe their hair.
Wendianna talks first, maybe you better introduce her first then. Is any of them your main character? I can't see your main character and I think you have to make it clear on the very first page.
p2 Your dialog is good - stuff in parenthesis is not that needed, I think.
I think if you have character lines twice in a row you could break it with the line of action (Donnella speaks twice in a row)
p12 I don't understand this "If she's still i there, we're not supposed to find her"
This is my first 7WC script  that's not about a couple and that's refreshing. Interesting too.
p14,15,16 - thier dialog could be cut in half, I think.
p22 - there's a lot of small movement/description of the small movement and small talk on this page (and throughout) for me. (same goes for mine - I'll tend to that in my rewrite btw).
p29 - I really like the love story progression between Celia and Harry. I'm on page 42 and I just realized that I've missed your first act break. (you didn't do it in three acts then?) Also there's no clear cut goal so I don't know where it's going. I'm sure you'll introduce one later - perhaps Celia acknowledges the meanness of "her step-sisters and step-mother" and starts acting - but I think it should happen now.
p42 - Now I'm sure it's a Cinderella story!

Not for everyone - it's a girly story after all. Great premise! Very original, i think.


Thank you very much for your kind words and your suggestions -- I hadn't been consciously following the Cinderella story but I can see the similarities and think it's a very charming idea, and I will give it much more thought.
My thoughts about the line you question on page 12 is that it implies that Wendianna and Donnella had agreed to pretend that they don't know what has happened to Celia, and hope that someone else will find her body.

I'm delighted that you enjoyed the story and thank you, again.

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Brian M
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Hey Catherine,

Well done for completing the challenge, I think you were the first to complete, also, so extra points for that. It’s also a fairly clean draft regarding typos etc, so that’s also a major plus. I noticed a few errors regarding formatting, particularly scene headings, but I’m going to assume someone has already pointed this out to you, as I haven’t read through all the comments. Anyway, onto the script.

SPOILERS

I think you need to focus more on the main story you want to tell. For me, after the promising start when Celia is attacked by her work ‘friends’, things got complicated and it felt like a series of random scenes that followed before we are brought back to the main story when she remembers the attack in the end. I don’t think the amnesia played as big a part as it should have, either. Celia should be remembering small parts of the attack and maybe find clues as to who attacked her during the script. Right now, you could be forgiven if you forgot the actual attack took place as it’s barely, if at all, mentioned. Even the sisters who tried to kill her act like nothing happened when she arrives back at work.

I also believe that it would make a great scene if you cut the part out when Celia makes the phone call the morning after the attack. It could work much better if she just wandered into the store, dressed for work. Imagine the sister’s faces when they actually see that she’s still alive.

This leads me to why. Why did the sisters want to kill Celia in the first place? It didn’t come across as random. She’s been working there for 9 years and they just decide to drown her? I didn’t buy that, sorry to say. There’s got to be a reason. Jealousy? Money? Maybe you could throw in a flashback to show how badly they treated Celia so she could be a little suspicious of them.

The Harry relationship just about worked, but it could use some work. The ages slightly baffled me. Celia is 30 years younger than Harry and was 39 years younger than Conroy. I don’t know if age gaps that size are common in America, but it amazed me.

Characters could be cut. First for the chop would be Sue and Lu. They didn’t do anything for me, and just wasted space that could be used to expand on your story.

I found the dialogue very mixed. It was quite good in places, but was brought down by a large amount of exposition and the constant use of the character’s names (especially in the first half). I’d watch out for that, especially as the sisters have longish names that stand out.

Overall, if the whole story could be about her coworkers attempting to kill Celia and she slowly but surely figures out why, then this could be a nice thriller. Right now, I think there’s just too much going on for me to really enjoy it. It’s a good effort, though. Any questions, just ask! Hope this helps.  

Brian
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