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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Horror Scripts  ›  Trail of Ashes Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: January 15th, 2006, 11:07am Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Trail of Ashes by Matthew L. Phillips - Horror, Drama - Lucas Martin set out to do one thing, fulfill his grandmother’s wishes and scatter his father’s ashes out by his dad’s birthplace, a long since burnt down cabin. However, when he finds out the cabin still exists and the woods surrounding it are subject to ghostly apparitions, he suspects his grandmother is hiding something she never meant for Lucas to find out. Searching for answers, he becomes engrossed in a mystery that when finally unraveled will give him more answers than he could ever have bargained for. - doc, format


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sfpunk
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okay, so this if my first full length script
all feedback will be appreciated, i tried to make the story as character based as possible and to have no plot holes so comments on the story, dialogue and characters will be welcomed to let me know if i acheived my goal
i also feel that maybe 96 pages is a tad bit on the short side but i dont know what else needs developing as to me the story makes total sense, if theres anything that is unclearl tell me and i will think of adding additional scenes

lastly, please use SPOILERS IN YOUR REVIEWS... a big part of my story relies on the twists and turns so i want people to read it not knowing what to expect

thanks,
-Matt

I've just noticed that there a few blank pages in my script so I'm sorry if they are annoying as you read through (must be 7 in total as my script is 103 pages in this version). I used Script Wizard to write my script and it's just a microsoft word add on package. When I open this link on my home computer it is fine and shows just the 96 pages. It must be a problem with opening it in word without the script add on. Anyway, ignore those blank pages and I apologize for them being there, it's something that is definetly not in the version posted, I do proofread better than that so it has to be a word error. There is no text missing like I said, just skip the blank part and move onto the next page.


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'Trail Of Ashes' - (Drama/Horror)


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sfpunk  -  January 15th, 2006, 4:39pm
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Martin
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Hey Matt,

I read this in one sitting and for your first script it's an impressive piece of work.

It's getting late here but I'll go through it again tomorrow and provide you with some detailed feedback.
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greg
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Yeah, I'll get to this sometime this week.


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bert
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I see some others are looking at this, but I have a hard time keeping my hands off new horror, so I’ll take first crack at it.

Matt, this is a good first effort, I’ll tell you flat out.  But judging from your “work in progress” thread, you apparently began work on this script sometime around January 3rd, and it was posted by January 15th.

Why the rush?

As it stands now, your ideas are much, much better than the script that surrounds them.

I am going to treat this as a first draft that is less than two weeks old -- which means I am going to bust on this one a bit.  I am just warning you up front.  I liked it, but I will go into this review assuming this is a very early draft you intend to continue working on.  Some of these are small details, and some are quite broad:

And, as requested, comments will contain SPOILERS:

*  I assume the opening scene was supposed to serve as a “grabber”, but the black screen falls short of compelling horror, I think.  A scream?  Crying?  A thud?  I kept waiting for this to come back, and it kind of made me cranky that it never did.  We’ll talk about this point later.
*  Page 7:  The parenthetical (mouth half full so dialogue hard to understand) should probably be reduced to something like (eating).
*  Page 20:  You mean “homey”, not “homely”; two very different things.
*  Page 26:  “A small animal perhaps a raccoon…” Is it or isn’t it?  You’re the writer.  You tell us.
*  Pg. 33:  Mr. Evans is “balding”, not “bolding”.
*  A lot of the dialogue is becoming repetitive, particularly the exchanges between Michelle and Lucas.  I noticed this a few times, but FYI, I finally decided to comment during the scene beginning around page 33 in the supermarket.  Yeah, we all know he kept her out late and she is all steamed about it and he wants her to move in and she tells him he doesn’t understand -- this is ground we have covered already.
*  Now, in regards to this haunting thing -- let me get this straight.  One guy at a diner says the trail is haunted.  He goes there at night and sees a raccoon, then hears some voices.  Creepy, sure, but is it enough?  He seems pretty eager to embrace the idea that this place is haunted.  I say make this nighttime visit to the trail a little scarier.  Give us some more shocks (which are lacking a bit, so far).  Consider having Lucas see or hear something that Michelle doesn’t see or hear.  Create a little additional tension between these two that way.
*  His note on page 65 is way, way too long.  This is the movies, not a book.  Cut this down by at least two-thirds, I’d say.
*  And after this note, you go from his study to the cabin then back to his house in the space of just a few seconds.  Then he’s on the phone with Michelle again, then -- whoosh -- we are back to the cabin.  These couple of pages are really confusing, and require a smoother transition between the scenes.
*  These same “too quick” transitions occur on page 74.  Lucas finds Michelle’s body and falls into the floor.  Then, suddenly, he is checking phone messages in the car.  This last part is feeling kind of rushed, as if you couldn’t wait to get to the end of this story.
*  And the ending.  I read the last 10 or so pages twice, Matt, and I am afraid I just don’t get it.  Why is Michelle alive?  What happened to Mary?  The question of the burned man is never really explained.  And (the biggest peeve of mine) we never return to the opening scene -- the screams and the mysterious “THUD” -- this opening segment seems to have been simply a device, operating independently of any real role in the story to follow.  That’s cheating...

I am gonna go out on a limb and just say this, Matt:  You rushed your final act.

I’m not trying to be mean.  I know exactly how you felt.  You were so close that you could hardly stand it and you busted it out over the course of a feverish day or two, and I’ll also bet you submitted it within hours of typing “FADE OUT”.  Believe me, you ain't the first to do it, either.  

If this were my story, here is the biggest change I would make.  I would involve Ron in the action, something beyond his scenes in the diner.  Once it becomes clear that Michelle will not be an ally to Lucas during his investigation, why not have Ron join Lucas, albeit reluctantly, to help discover the mysteries of this trail and the cabin.  I think solving the mystery of his lost daughter would be enough to spur him on.  I think Ron can be wrung for a good deal of sympathy here, and that you should try to do that.

And answer the questions of this script!  There are so many loose ends.  The more horror I read, the more it annoys me when the author states, “Well, it’s supposed to be a mystery…”  Balderdash!  It just means the author doesn’t know.  I will pass on to you something that George gave me while reviewing an early draft of “The Farm”:  “Scripts don’t come with FAQs.”  I love this quote because it stabs the lazy horror writer right in the stomach.  You should take it to heart with this story, too.  Answer a few of the questions that remain and it will make your script stronger.  I guarantee it.

So, you have laid a solid foundation here, Matt.  But this script is only two weeks old, and it shows.  I hope some of these comments help you with the rewrite phase, and I strongly encourage you to dive back into this story with some of the comments you will likely receive here.  Don't shy away from making this one better, OK?


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sfpunk
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Bert,
I obviously was not clear enough with the main points in the plot that I wanted to drive home. The people that had read it beforehand knew the plot and therefore were able to deduct what I wanted them to get from it. So below (CHOCK FULL OF SPOILERS) is what I intended for the reader to get about the plot. Please read this and let me know what part of my execution failed.

SPOILERS!!!
-Michelle was never taken anywhere, Lucas got so involved in the killings and his dad that he started imagining things like the owl in the photographs that Mary didn't see. That was supposed to show him losing his mind a little bit. She kept saying she was going to leave and therefore did. Lucas imagined that she was dead when she was just away for a while. When she got back the fire had been and she assumed Lucas was dead too and moved on with her life.

-As for Lucas seeing and hearing things that Michelle didn't, that was another clue too. She didn't hear anything at all as only those connected to the killings can hear them as Mary stated. Therefore she really thought Lucas was going insane and had to get away from him.

-The burnt man at the end is Lucas. That was supposed to be a big twist ending. After finding out about the killings, says he has no family left, and is burnt in the cabin he loses it. Since he thinks Michelle is dead, his father is a killer, and his grandma hid the whole thing he stayed there as he had no reason to go back. The scenes where Lucas, Michelle and the burnt man where all there at once was Lucas remembering his past. That's why I used words such as confused and puzzled when the burnt man views Lucas. It was all supposed to be the burnt man seeing past memories. Kind of like two time frames running on at once. The ending where I showed the scenes from before was supposed to clarify that such as the car dissapearing and him cutting a deer and not a person.

-The lighter was supposed to throw the audience off. He mentioned that it was the last connection between him and his dad. Rex stole one from the funeral and Lucas had the other. You are supposed to assume it's rex the whole time but once you see him at georges diner you realize he is not the guy in the woods. That is Lucas. I thought the conversation with Michelle and the guy at dinner about how Luacs never returned answered that, but again I know the story so I will assume that's the ending whereas the reader doesn't appear to.

-The beginning, I'll admit was kind of cheap. I didn't return to it because no one ever went missing. I guess I just put it there to hook people in and to show that something wasn't right with the woods, of course people did get killed with an axe there just not in the course of the story I told. That's the backstory.

-As for Mary, I wanted to imply her nightmares continued and she never was able to get away from the fact that she hid the killings from people even if it was her son.

END SPOILERS

I had 2 people read it before I posted it and they both got those plot points but then again they were friends and knew most of the story as I bounced ideas of them. I guess it obviously goes to show that a reader with no knowledge of the story will struggle to get them. Like I said, it'd be greatly appreciated if you could read over my intentions and tell me where I failed in my execution. I obviously need to make them more understandable as I feel like most your critisicm stems from me not hammering them home.

The rest of your points about dialogue and spelling I can take into consideration immediatly as those are more finite things. However, the plot points you're going to have to give me a little info on where I went wrong.

Anyway, thank you for very much for at least giving it a read and voicing your opinions. I will admit that maybe I rushed it a little but with the friends read throughs I thought it was ready.
-Matt

if anyone else has read my script, and feels i left a lot of loose threads, read this post. It explains everything that i wanted the plot to be and should answer any questions about plot holes you had. Since berts comments i am beginning to feel that maybe i didnt make anything clear enough especially the ending. So, if you think i failed to answer anything check this out and maybe then i will get a better idea of how to execute the ideas


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sfpunk  -  January 16th, 2006, 12:22am
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As I said before, this is good for a first script. I really like the story but the execution isn't quite there yet. My comments might sound negative but hopefully they'll be helpful when you rewrite this.





SPOILERS


I'll agree with Bert on the opening. It's not really a grabber with it being a black screen. Then you never pay it off. If I were you, I'd start with an image of the burnt man smoking his pipe and tapping the ashes onto the hill.

Pg. 3: "Why wouldn't I? I mean I'm your girlfriend" people don't talk like this and it sounds like an info dump to me. We can assume their relationship as we progress without her having to tell us.

A note on descriptions. Try not to use the passive voice. Whenever someone "is driving", "is pounding" or "is doing" anything, make it more active e.g. "Lucas pounds on the door" or "Lucas drives"

In general, your dialogue scenes tend to run on a bit. Bert's right when he says you're repeating info. Some of your dialogue is a little 'on the nose'. Try and say what you want to say through subtext rather than telling us outright. In my opinion, Ron and Mary suffer from this a lot.

Some of the dialogue is bland and unnecessary. Every line of dialogue should either develop character, move the story forward or reveal something about the plot.

MICHELLE
I'm going to the bathroom. I need to get home soon though so is it okay if we leave when I get back?
LUCAS
Yeah sure, that's fine.

This one stuck out like a sore thumb. It's not needed. You do this with phone conversations too. Arrive late, depart early. Stuff like the following can be cut:

MICHELLE
Hello?
LUCAS
Hey, how are you?
MICHELLE
I'm okay, how about you?

Here's another problem I have. You describe 'Grumpy old Evans' and how he thinks Lucas is 'abusing his father's death'. Then he fires Lucas for taking time off. Yet, somehow, he turns all nice when Michelle is upset and abusing customers and then he gives her a week off work. This didn't ring true.

RON
Thanks but I'd rather not go digging up the past, it�'s best forgetting what could have happened to my daughter.

So he's not interested in finding out what happened to his daughter? Gee, I sure would be. Maybe the nightmares scared him off but this didn't sit well with me.

A note about the voices. You say the voices can only be heard by people involved in the killings. This seems a bit weird but I guess we can suspend disbelief. Why can Ron hear them? Just because his daughter was killed?

The email is too long. I'd suggest cutting it down and/or using a voice over. Nobody goes to the movies to read.

I really thought you were onto something with the photograph but then you go and have Michele rationalize it, then you show us a flashback of it blowing into the cabin. We don't need it hammered home like that. Him finding it and telling Michelle is enough.

A note on phone conversations and scenes in general. You don't have to continue the scene until someone leaves or hangs up the phone. Arrive late, depart early. As soon as your scene achieves what it set out to, get the hell out of there.

The first thing I thought when Lucas discovered the bodies was SMELL! What about the smell? I realize there are supernatural elements at play here but, from an audience perspective, we're left wondering why both Lucas and later the Cop are unable to smell the rotting corpses.

Then the cop shows up and he's all like "Hey, you're the guy who was trespassing the other night, now you've broken into someone's cabin, you'd better fix those floorboards, anyway have a nice day, see ya!" Okay, he doesn't say that but you get my point.

I read your spoilers about Michelle. Now, if you want this to work, have the voicemail from her mother before he finds Michelle's body. Then it's easier for us to believe he imagined it.

As for the ending. On page 92 I knew where this was going, I understood the ending and I was thinking "yeah, that's pretty cool". Then you went and confused the hell out of me. I read your spoilers and I realize my initial reaction was correct but the last 4 pages or so made me doubt that. In my opinion, all you need at the end is the burnt man on the hill, have him turn his face and we see that it is Lucas. Instead, you confuse us by having him watch Lucas, thus suggesting they are not one and the same. As Bert says, the ending needs some work.



END SPOILERS

Overall, it was an enjoyable script. You put some thought into your characters and they came out pretty well. I like the concept of the story but I think you need to iron out a few of the flaws I mentioned above.

For a first script, it's a solid foundation. Good luck with the rewrite.
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AGAIN SPOILERS

Yeah, I didn't know how else to do the ending though as I had the burnt mans face show throught out the movie so if I wanted it to come across as a twist I can't have them look too alike or else it would be figured out in the first scene. It seemed too gimmicky to me if the whole time if you never see his face. It would be too obvious that something was being hidden and I wanted the ending to be something where the audience finally gets in as the fade out occurs, hence why I used the disspearing car and his confused look when watching his past memories. Obviously from yours and Berts comments this doesn't work and I will fix it in the rewrite once I've given it some though on how to execute it better.

The part with Ron was suggested with Bert so in a re-write I will have him more involved in Lucas's struggle and cut some of the Michelle stuff. That way it will add more character dimensions and I can also go ahead and make it more clear that Michelle wasn't killed, she just had to get away from Lucas. I also have an idea to make the ending more effective that involves Ron

As for the smell that kind of puts a big hole in my story I wanted the cop scene to be in there for a little suspense but you are completely and utterly right about the rotton corpse. I don't  know how I can get around that though so any suggestions would be appreciated. It seems to me that the corspes can't be left in the cabin especially if the cop shows up. And if the cop doesn't show him it seems that that just lefts an loose thread, with the cop saying he'd be watching the area and return and all. At first, I had Lucas kill the cop and hide the body with the rest but again that also seemd implausible.

Secondly, with Michelle rationalizing, I thought that was necessary as I felt that otherwise people would be confused on how the photograph got into the cabin. It had to be the wind as obviously the burnt man was never there the whole time. That was all in the future after Lucas was burnt in the cabin, I just cut both time frams together. I thought the wind would clarify that the burnt man was Lucas and that no one was there to take the photograph into the cabin. Again, my execution needs work.

End Spoilers

Okay, thank you for very much for reading. All your feedback has been extremely useful and I plan on re-writing this as much as possible. I am pleased with my basic concept and idea and I can't thank you and bert enough for pointing out execution flaws that I missed.
thanks
-Matt


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Martin
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Quoted from sfpunk
AGAIN SPOILERS
As for the smell that kind of puts a big hole in my story ... I don't  know how I can get around that though so any suggestions would be appreciated.


Not a big hole but definitely something to consider. Maybe you could have the cabin as some kind of hunting lodge. Throw in a few deer carcasses rotting outside. This would explain the smell and could increase the creep factor when Lucas first visits the cabin.
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bert
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Quoted from Martin
Throw in a few deer carcasses rotting outside.


Yeah....inside, outside, all over the place.  That's a really good idea.

I was waiting to see if anybody else was as confused as I was before responding.  I think Martin picked up on a few of the nuances better than I did.  I still don't get the (minor spoiler) two lighters, though.  You clearly know what you are going for -- you just need to clarify things a bit for your audience, I think.  


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Bert
the only thing I used the two lighters for was so the
SPOILERS
twist ending didn't seem cheap or anything like that. If a reader got it but didn't see any reference to where it came from I figured they'd be mad so that's what the lighter was for. Lucas and his father both had one and his fathers got stolen by Rex. Therefore, when you see the burnt man cutting something and the lighter falls out of his pocket onto whatever it is he's cutting you assume it's rex and he's committing a murder. He was in on the killings and stole the lighter so I wanted the audience to assume that rex is the burnt guy when it  is in fact Lucas. After seeing rex at the diner I showed the burnt man with the lighter again to remind the reader that the only other person with the lighter was Lucas therefore the burnt man and Lucas are one in the same.
END SPOILERS

Once again though, just from your two reads I can tell it needs alot of work in the story department so this upcoming week and weekend I am going to take it apart and first of all add in the new subplot with Ron and remove some of the unneeded and repetitive dialogue. Then I will add in various lines to make sure my plot comes out more clearly as that is obviously the biggest issue here. Even though Martin picked up on a few of the things it still seems I was not clear in clarifying what had happend and it seems I confused him even after he had it figured out
once again thank you for your comments guys, as always they will be very helpful
-Matt


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Just a note to everyone, I read the first 60 in an e-mail and just finished up the conclusion.

Alright, first I read the last 40 pages of this then I checked out Bert's comments and then your response.  I believe on the 6th it was at 58 pages, and here on the 15th it's up for action.  The main issue is that's waaaay too soon and it really shows in the story.

40 pages in 9 days and not even a grace period to really check out your work.  You're getting too excited man!  You gotta take your time on this kind of shtuff.  At least that's my philosophy.  Anyway, the story and the ideas are there, but the execution is completely babbled up.

So many things were going on during the end and I tried following but I just got lost.    Your explanation of the endings make it sound pretty thrilling, you just need to create that bridge in the story so the reader can understand.  For example, he took a picture of the owl and then when he showed his grandma, it wasn't there and never was.  Unfortunately, you never really say if that's the case.  In fact, by the end you don't really know exactly what happened.

The audience can't assume "Oh, the owl's not in the picture, he must be insane." Basically, you can never assume that if you clearly understand what you're saying that everyone else will.  Trust me, I have a script that has so much going on that something I thought was clear in fact wasn't at all.  Whoa song from Vice City is playing!!!

Sorry, hahaha.  The burnt man being Lucas is a nice twist with the double framing thing kind of going on, but again, it's too confusing to fully get.  Maybe what you could do is that at the end when it has the burnt Lucas watching Michelle and young Lucas getting out of the car, well, you can show burnt Lucas looking at the ground and then when he looks up they're gone.  Maybe some voice over there could help you too.

You got a feature going here, so don't be afraid to go over the century mark in pages.  You want to end this with a feeling of satisfaction.  Right now you're still halfway there because the ending isn't 100%.    If I sounded like a dick I didn't mean to.  I think you got a great story and idea going here, it just needs to be tweaked.  And that e-mail to Michelle is way too long.  Chop that bastard up!

Another thing, the voices.  They're really supposed to be a mysterious type creepy-esque thing, but I think you overuse them to the point where it's like "alright, now what?"  I'd use the voices as little as possible.  Oh yeah, and there's a bunch of chopped up bodies under the cabin, right?  I think they'd be rotting and stink really bad by now, thus getting the cop's attention.  Or maybe they weren't real and Lucas was just imagining it!  

Yeah, the ending is fuzzy.  Dude, take your time.  In a story like this you want the ending to be as clear and punching as possible.  So yeah, work on those thingies and I think you'll be closer to where you want to be!  Good job!


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sfpunk
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Okay, I think the general concesus is that I rushed this and looking back maybe I did. I will admit for it being my first full length I was excited to get it up and the comments from the friends that read it where all pretty positive so I guess I got too excited too soon. I hope that I have not blown my chances with you guys of reading future drafts. I will really take my time chiseling away at this bad boy as I am still satisfied with the story that I have (thanks for the positive comments on that part) so I will try to execute it better. So, if I didn't completely mess this up, comments on any future draft would be good to let me know if I worked out all the kinks (trust me, I'll take my time)

SPOILERS
Don't worry Greg as you didn't sound like a dick at all. You told me flat out that you think I rushed it and that the story needs working on. There's nothing wrong with being honest especially since you did back it up to prove that you took the time to read it. Like I said in the post before yours I will go ahead and take out some of the repetitive dialogue and add a story in with Ron helping Lucas.

As for Martin's note I will add in another side story of the woods now being used for hunting and how the hunters find the cabin and use that. That will explain the smell alot better if there are rotting deer carcasses or something of the sort. I still havn't worked that part out but something along those lines will explain the lack of smell of the corpses. I'll also go into more detail about the rules on who can hear the voices and who can't. I know it's a suspension of belief but I feel that if I set the rules in my script and don't ever violate them then there shouldn't be a problem.

As for the ending, clearly that needs work. I think the best bet would be some kind of a voice over or Lucas writing a journal entry explaining that he is still tormented by the ghosts of his past. Something along those lines should really hammer down the notion that the burnt man and Lucas are one in the same.

As for the email, I will chop it up as every single person has said that and even I thought it was a tad bit too long but I felt the information was needed. Having said, the same message can still be conveyed with less words.
END SPOILERS

So, when I get a break from all my college work I will start to chop this up and fix some of the issues that have been brought forth by nearly every reader. Like I said, I would like if you guys could read the next draft when I eventually put it up as that will really let me know if I fixed what needs to be fixed.
So thanks to all of you for your comments, I'll take everything on this thread into consideration during the re-write
thanks
-Matt


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Bert is a heck of a reviewer and it looks like you've got some good comments to start with. Since the primary comment is spend some time rewriting, I'll hang back and read the second draft. I always check the portal, so if you announce once your second draft is up, I'll give it a read so I don't pollute my brain with the current first draft.

Good luck in your rewrites, and the only comment I would make based on what I've read here is that all that stuff you replied to Bert? Yeah, put all that stuff in the script. In fact, everything you've clarified for everyone on here? Those are some golden nuggets you just left hidden that you shouldn't have. You should be going through your script trying to figure out where there is too much information, not trying to add stuff in. I'll keep following this because I liked the 58 pages I read before.

I will say it is possible to knock out 40 quality pages in 9 days (I've written two 90 pagers in about a week before), but those weren't my first scripts...more like my 15th or 20th ones (I lose count). It takes practice. Keep writing. Keep revising. Have fun with it.


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sfpunk
Posted: January 16th, 2006, 6:52pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks a lot George. The first response I put to Bert clarified everything that my story should have said but didn't because my execution made it too confusing. I won't say anything more on the script though until I've gone through and done a solid re-write. It will take time I know but at least I know what has gone wrong with this first draft and now it's just a matter of spending the time fixing it. And trust me, when I have the time that's what I'll be doing.


My Scripts
'Trail Of Ashes' - (Drama/Horror)

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