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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Horror Scripts  ›  Wisconsin Hells Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: December 10th, 2006, 3:03pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Wisconsin Hells by Douglas Gregor (Kerrangster) - Horror - A group of friends travel to the Wisconsin Dells to relax at a water park, and right from the start the trip becomes turbulent; pulsing with primal energy, our group is engulfed in a hyper-surreal nightmare with incredible bite. 86 pages - pdf, format


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You will miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
- Wayne Gretzky

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Don  -  December 26th, 2006, 6:30pm
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kerrangster
Posted: December 15th, 2006, 10:09pm Report to Moderator
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Does anyone what to provide me some feedback on the script.  Be honest so I can learn.
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Steve-Dave
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Quoted from kerrangster
Does anyone what to provide me some feedback on the script.  Be honest so I can learn.


You'll learn even more if you read other people's stuff. Odds are nobody's gonna read yours until you read theirs. It's just the way things work around here.


"Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd" - George Carlin
"I have to sign before you shoot me?" - Navin Johnson
"It'll take time to restore chaos" - George W. Bush
"Harry, I love you!" - Ben Affleck
"What are you looking at, sugar t*ts?" - The man without a face
"Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." - Exodus 31:15
"No one ever expects The Spanish Inquisition!" - The Spanish Inquisition
"Matt Damon" - Matt Damon
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bert
Posted: December 16th, 2006, 12:43pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Doug.  Welcome to the boards.  I’ve backed off from reading features for a little while, but I did pop this open to see what I could see, and here is the dime-store review for ya’.

That little quote you start with, is that spoken as a voice-over (V.O.) or do the words appear on the screen (SUPER)?  You need to let us know, and if the answer is neither, then you need to lose it.

You give us lots of camera directions here.  ZOOM, FADE TO, CUT TO, FREEZE FRAME, PUSH IN, and the somewhat ambiguous CROSSFADE.  You need to know that potential directors will not be impressed with this sort of camera tomfoolery.  In fact, quite the opposite, they will resent you for treading on their turf.  And it also takes the reader out of the story.

So lose them.  A trained reader will recognize that a new slug line takes us to a new scene.  And losing all those CUT TO’s and such will help lower your page count.

I am of the opinion that the rare DISSOLVE is alright if you have a very good and specific reason for it -- say, a rolling tractor tire dissolving into a ferris wheel.  But a CROSSFADE just for going from the motel room to the parking lot?  No.  Don’t do that.

You might see that kind of stuff in shooting scripts, but at this level, us lowly scribes writing spec scripts try to avoid those things.  Concentrate on telling your story -- that is the key -- do not let yourself get distracted telling us how it will be shot.

You have lots and lots of “we see”, as in “We see the farmer walk away.”  Just write, “The farmer walks away.”  There is a big, on-going debate about this little phrase, but the consensus is lose the phrase “we see” wherever possible.  And it’s really not that hard to cut them out.  You’ve got tons of them, and they should all go.

You also use a great many “CONT” for dialogue.  I think this practice has fallen out of favor.  I mean, it is obvious whose dialogue it is because thier name is right there in CAPS, you know?  I never use them, and consider them nothing more than clutter on the page.

For what I read, I also need to say that after the deer and farmer scene, Gwen seems like a horrible person.  Just awful.  I do not like her at all, and you may or may not consider that a problem.  But depending upon your intent for her, you may want to reevaluate making her such a foul-mouthed little snot-brat.

For the most part, however, at first glance the formatting looks good and the writing seems competent, so you are clearly on the right track.  Your biggest problem is the “we see”, but once you start addressing that, you will find it to be an easy fix.  I hope some of these comments help you out.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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kerrangster
Posted: December 16th, 2006, 3:05pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the feedback.  I working on the changes.  I need to figure out how to develop a character and understand more about the blance, imbalance, back to balance equation.  
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Steve-Dave
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Hey, started reading this, got up to like page 15 and stopped, but here's enough for you to work on.

SPOILERS..........................................................................................................

Put Ed Gein's quote after SUPER:   if you want it to have anything to do with it being in the movie.

You don't have to be SO detailed in description. Don't tell us feelings and things like that in description. (ex. "It's an unusually warm day in October." and "it's just a few weeks from Halloween") how would we know this by watching the movie? Tell us through seeing and dialogue. Have somoene mention that it's close to Halloween, or show a callander or pumpkin or SUPER: Whitefish Bay, October 12th - or something like that.

Try to refrain from using street names and things like that when you can. And try to eliminate things like "we see" and "when WE arrive"  from your writing vocabulary.

Whenever you go to a new location, use the slugline to indicate it. Don't just SAY  in the description. Like with Klode Park, it should be: EXT. KLODE PARK - DAY  and then you could put people play in the park in the description. Same with WHITEFISH BAY, And so on  when you go someplace else, put that in the slugline instead. Description's just for telling what's going on in that specific place, but not naming the places.

And leave out camera angles and directions, like this place is just south of another. It's okay, and probably better to be a little vague in your descriptions. Just tell us what's important. A lot of your lengthier descriptions could be written in just a few words. Just try to summarize it more and condense it. You don't even really have to make complete sentences really, just as long as you get your point across. The quicker and shorter we could get through it the better.

Introduce the character and tell us her name. GWEN, age, pretty, blonde. or whatever before she speaks. Don't just say she's a girl.

again, no "we sees" Just put, "Gwen checks her watch and looks up to the sky."

David needs a proper introduction, and I'd recommend putting in a scene before they're in the car, so we could get to know him a little first. Like arriving for Gwen and explaining why he's late and they talk and etc. Why not also show David and Gwen arriving at their room? I saw you asked how to develope a character, well, you have to have them talk to eachother, or about something that we could get a feel for what they're like, and you miss out on opportunities to do that. Like in the car on the way before they hit the deer, David picking up Gwen after being late and them arriving at the room. Or Gwen even mentions that the lady at the front desk gave her the creeps, why not show that and show David and Gwen checking in. You could build on a lot more with some scenes you cut through. You just have them in these situations all of a sudden, but don't transition too well to get there. So far, all I've gathered is that Dan and Amy are horny and Gwen's a grade a bitch, and David's just there, and dating Gwen for some reason.

once again, Introduce Amy, Dan and The Maid properly. And there's a lot of spelling and grammar mistakes too, so you might wanna give it a good once over.

Again...another example of thigs you could build on. David, Dan, Amy, and Gwen are all of a sudden in the Fort Funtier Parking Lot together, but why not show them meeting up, and put in a little conversation there too? That's how you develope character. Or even just somebody saying "we gotta meet them at this place tomorrow" or something, but don't just magically cut to them all together, you know? you gotta transition somehow.

What's a "college age girl", people of all ages can go to college. Just say she's 20 or something, Simplify things. Just put something like, Out walks MOUSE, 20, attractive.

character, you also have to have a balance to find between them. Like usually, when I write, I have like the "wild child/risky/idiotic/mean/bad" character, and then a good one to balance it out. Like, I think as much of a bitch Gwen is, you should make David a really nice guy who like doesn't really want to be with her, but has to be for some reason or something like that, and Mouse would also have to be good too. But as it is now, it seems like they're all just horny sex crazed people which all these random events are just happening. We can't really get behind any of the characters yet, and I don't really care for them because of that. The sex thing I think is very cliche in movies now, I'd rather see the more dramatic approach, but this seems more like a cheesy B rate horror like Friday the 13th or something.

Also, if you cut out a lot of your mistakes and description, you'd probably have about 70-75 pages of script, which is a little on the short side.

And I think saying everything is "creepy" is kindof a dangerous way to play it in horror, because it's kindof like you're just trying to pound it in our heads that this is supposed to be so scary and so creepy, you know? Same with when Mouse screamed and they went on and on about it, so you may want to keep the saying that "everything so creepy and scary around here" to a minimum.

But I do like reading your dialogue. I think that is your biggest strength, cuz you do keep it interesting. And I don't want to discourage you, because I used to make all these same exact mistakes too, but you get better over time. Just keep writing and reading other's work, and you'll get better. A lot of these are just rookie mistakes, and I'm still learning too, so just keep at it, and fix up this draft. And watch the "cut to's and disolves and crossfades" and stuff like that cuz they're not really needed and frowned upon by people nowadays, and the CONT'D's too.


"Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd" - George Carlin
"I have to sign before you shoot me?" - Navin Johnson
"It'll take time to restore chaos" - George W. Bush
"Harry, I love you!" - Ben Affleck
"What are you looking at, sugar t*ts?" - The man without a face
"Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." - Exodus 31:15
"No one ever expects The Spanish Inquisition!" - The Spanish Inquisition
"Matt Damon" - Matt Damon
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kerrangster
Posted: December 19th, 2006, 10:19am Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the review.  I spent the past couple of days revising my script, cleaning it up.  I know I just have to keep at it and learn.  I'll post what I revised so far.  Once again thanks.  What are some good scripts to read that became movies?
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JD_OK
Posted: December 19th, 2006, 8:08pm Report to Moderator
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When you post your revision. I will give it a look exchange for The Unholy Cry in my sig.

And what bert says is true. If you just remove camera direction i could tolerate a read


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!



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JD_OK  -  December 20th, 2006, 1:14am
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JD_OK
Posted: December 20th, 2006, 8:34pm Report to Moderator
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Hey I went to start readiing this, and I still see camera directions and we see, we hears stuff.

I posted above I would read when had this revision done exchange for Unholy review. Since you reviewed it, i went to read yours and those major flaws are still present.

Also, rule of thumb for paragraphs is no more then 5 lines. You have paragraphs over this. They must be broken up.

No need to go into too much detail on descriptions. We dont need to know every single movement they make, just the general.

I would like to read the story but if I continue to read, I wont be able to get into like I would without those distractions and would reflect in my over all review

So if you have the revision completed, you can email it to me, if you dont wanna wait for the revision to be posted here.

Side note. features are 90-120. for you genre usually 90-110. Cause once you remove all those unecessary directions its gonna reduce your script to about 77-79 pages.


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!



Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
JD_OK  -  December 20th, 2006, 10:56pm
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kerrangster
Posted: December 20th, 2006, 8:43pm Report to Moderator
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Sorry ... I'll let you know when it's posted up there.  I'll make the correction you just mentioned.
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JD_OK
Posted: December 20th, 2006, 9:16pm Report to Moderator
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Its totally fine, its up to you. I can read it tonight and give review or read your revision? Since you already read mine.

Also i had some questions for you posted in my thread if you could respond, be great


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!


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JD_OK
Posted: December 20th, 2006, 10:55pm Report to Moderator
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pg 3 " We see Gwen hold.." -- remove that we see

pg 3. You can introduce a charcter (amy) and describe them if they are not seen.
pg 3 Gwen, You always on time" - You're

You are over doing the "beats" Use"..." which indicates a pause of speech.
Remove ALL we hears and we see

pg 4 david's description. Watching this as a movie by seeing this guy, do you really think we can see he is superficial, salesmans-like. Remove anything in description that  audiece can not see. Also You are still using camera directions " As we wind down the road..."

Omg, so many we's on this page is killing me. and Camera directions ex."PUSH IN"

pg 5. The farmer glanceS....
ok - okay
pg 6 Famer - Farmer and period after fucking.

After this point I feel Im going to run into many many more grammar errors then normal. So i will have to stop listing them. you will need good couple of proof reads also with other corrections i mentioned.

Also move all sentences into ACTIVE ones. meaning remove all ING verb words, where it does not make bad grammer. Im going to just focus on the story now.
interupting some one is done like this
              The farmer
I only came here to make sur--
                Gwen
--You only came over, etc
Dont ned that line telling us.

Okay i am page 26 and i cant go any further til this story is in decent shape. You keep teling me things in the descriptions look you r writing a book. We can NOT see on screen that Amy's obessions with beautiful began at a aging conference.
And now its getting a tid bit silly. She wants to stay young forever in a horror movie? And its being very serious about it?
You are missing scene heads everywhich way.

The story is really draggin for me. almost 30mins into the story and only thing exiting was the deer hit. The dialogue is good, which is only strength of you story thus far.

PLEASE REMOVE ANYTHING YOU HAVE IN DESCRIPTION THAT CAN NOT BE SEEN ON SCREEN. and over worded descriptions. After you do these things I can finish the review. I hope what I have pointed out helps.

I would hold on doing exchanges with anyone til you correct these major problems or people will not finish your story.
(I being the 3rd)


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!



Revision History (6 edits; 1 reasons shown)
JD_OK  -  January 4th, 2007, 7:19pm
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tonkatough
Posted: December 21st, 2006, 5:27am Report to Moderator
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Oh look it's the Texas chainsaw massacre with no chainsaws.

Did you self train amd develope your story structure skills  from watching Saw, Wolf Creek, Wrong Turn, Hostel, Hills Have Eyes, House of wax etc etc.

cause with your script it is just like you aped these movies which is fine and a good place to get started. plus all these movies are almost identical plot structure wise bcause they all use the same genre template as approved by Hollywood studios.

And if this is your first attempt then i must saw you did all right. But there are some beginner problems.

first up your characters are an ugly, stupid bunch of brats that I do not care about and just wish they would hurry up and die. and die a horrible death cause these characters piss me off.

the original purpose for the set and first 30 min of a horror is to introduce the characters and get to know them and like them so when the blood starts flining I am supposed to feel horror at seeing these poor little people suffer. I don't feel that with your script.

Second part the set up is way too long. I have only read 53 pages so far and there is no horror. When I see a horror I want to see horror. Not a bunch of shallow brats being brats.

You need to tighten up the first 50 pages and cut out a lot of the filler. the sex scenes, the dialouge that does not move the story forward. the talk about shopping, the constant whining about how much their holiday sucks. All you need is  group roll up at hoilday house, go look for some pot meet the canibals, become victimised.

but other then that your writing is very good and is your dialouge. I have no problem with it  Your writing is fine you just need to master plot.

The only way to improve plot is do your homework. Get your hands on some books on script writing and story structure, plus character development and learn the craft.

Don't just rely on watching horror movies and copying them as the horror movies today are flawed and you don't want to pick up their bad habits.

Oh yeah and as Sryknows stated above. Read other scripts. It is the best way to see what works and what doesn't. You will learn a lot form reading toher peoples scripts. I knwo I sure have.

I'll read the rest and post a second review.      



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dogglebe
Posted: December 21st, 2006, 5:20pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from tonkatough
first up your characters are an ugly, stupid bunch of brats that I do not care about and just wish they would hurry up and die. and die a horrible death cause these characters piss me off.


Are the characters named Paris, Nicole, Britney and Lindsey?  Just wondering...



Quoted from tonkatough
The only way to improve plot is do your homework. Get your hands on some books on script writing and story structure, plus character development and learn the craft.

Don't just rely on watching horror movies and copying them as the horror movies today are flawed and you don't want to pick up their bad habits.


For the most part, slasher films are the bottom dwellers in film genre.  The reason why a small few succeed is because it's really really cool how the characters die in it.  The reason why most of them suck is because those involved are only concerned if it's really really cool how the characters die in it.

Read some dramatic screenplays, here.  Learn how to tell stories and how to build suspense.  Take what you've learned and then apply it to the slasher genre.


Phil
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dogglebe
Posted: December 21st, 2006, 6:00pm Report to Moderator
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Okay, I read the first twenty pages of this scripts and I see a lot of problems.  For starters, I would have no oidea that this is supposed to be horror if you didn't mention it in the logline.  I would've thought it was some sort of coming-of-age film or something.

You have only ten pages to establish your story.  At that point, people decide if the script is worth reading.  If you submitted this to an agent or a producer to read, they may not even read that far before tossing your script into the circular file.

A big part of your problem, Doug, is thtat you use too many words in describing thing.  The twenty pages I read could be reduced to only ten pages.  Take out all the we see's, and camera angles.  If it can't be recorded by the camera, it shouldn't be the script.

Your character development needs a lot of work.  Your characters are two dimension and forgetable.  I couldn't remember their names seconds after I put the script down.  If the reader doesn't care about the characters, he won't care about what happens to them.

Read some scripts, here, and see how people tell stories and analyse the characters used.  Readings scripts is a great learning experience.


Phil
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