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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Brawler Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: January 10th, 2009, 4:59pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Brawler by Raymond Belair - Short - An angry young man and his brother confront their shared past after he gets into yet another fight. 10 pages - pdf, format


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NiK
Posted: January 10th, 2009, 8:49pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Raymond,

Finished reading the script. I did enjoy most of it because of your writing, but i have to tell that i didn't really feel that this was an interesting story. Tommy is angry as hell and seems to have a problem with everyone, that didn't really convince me though and i think it would be better to have a scene telling us about his relationship with his mother.

Can't think of anything else to add.

Best.



Gift of Blood - NEW! co-written tonkatough
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mcornetto
Posted: January 10th, 2009, 9:17pm Report to Moderator
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Raymond,

That wasn't bad.  Had a bit of compassion by the end.  Good stuff.

But I think it can be even better.  Maybe add a flashback to the father stuff.  You have a lot of telling going on that could easily be transferred to visuals.  Mother crying.  Brother woken in the middle of the night.  This is stuff that could be in the script.  

How is Dan's family life anyway?  He has to defend it but we don't know if he is fighting for the truth?  You could always introduce us to his family.

Maybe make it a bit more difficult for this buried reason for Tommy's regression to surface.  It seems like he and his brother come into this sharing of feelings much too easily and I think you are missing out on a chance for some added tension and drama.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Cheers,

Michael



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jayrex
Posted: January 11th, 2009, 11:14am Report to Moderator
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Cut to three weeks earlier

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Hi Raymond,

I thought you have an interesting story.  There's alot of those pricks back home that act like Tommy does.  

I think you could have had some sort of setback earlier in the day.  Where Tommy has this going over and over in the back of his mind.  The Guy bumping into him was the spark that sets him off.

If you're going to have the father as the excuse, then a flashback might be in order.

The only thing that puzzled me was the slug INT. FLOOR.  It's not needed.

All the best,


Javier


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Colkurtz8
Posted: January 13th, 2009, 4:10am Report to Moderator
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Raymond

You always leave intelligent & thoughful comments in you posts so anything you do is worthy of a look.

I loved the intro where we just monitor Tommy go about his post work rituals: grabbing a beer, the microwaveable dinner, watchin TV, working out.

"Tommy just stands there under the steaming spray, head bowed, lost in the water's embrace."

Very nice writing here, well done.

"takes a long pull of his beer." -- I never heard it being phrased like that before.

Only twopages in but I already hate Tommy. I don't know if thats a good thing that the protag, or antag (I don't know yet) is an extremely dislikeable individual.

Even the most diabolical of villians had their charm.

By the end of Pg 4 - What the fu?k is Tommy's story, man? On a suicide mission or what?

JOEY
Maybe if you tried acting more like
your brother here, your face wouldn't
look like a crack whore's gash on
the rag.

A nice put down - getting visuals here.

TOMMY
Maybe if you tried acting like a
real cop they'd let you drive one of
their shiny cars and play with the
flashy lights.

Not a bad come back but the cop's remark shades it for me. Good exchange though.

"Dan calms down, hitches up his belt." -- That should be "Joey", right?

DAN
That's not-- I don't--
(deep breath)
Look, I'm sorry. Okay?

Very abrupt turnaround, nearly too abrupt.

DAN
I don't have a good excuse, Tommy.
I'm sorry, but I just don't. I
couldn't take it any more. I knew
what it would mean for you if I left,
but I had to get out of there,
before...

Dan chokes up, fights to hold it all in.

At this point I feel strangely disengaged from the conversation as Dan is getting all upset but us the reader have no idea why, thus its hard to empathise with him. You need to give us some indication or hint as to why he had to "get out of there".

TOMMY
I'm sorry. I know you're a good
father. I don't know why I...

Again such a rapid turnaround in character -- maybe this is a product of abuse, it just seems all to Jekyll & Hyde-ish.

A well written piece in all, typo's were at a premuim. However, I don't think the story matched it, especially the ending which I found tame & uninvolving. Something I felt throughout the piece, by either being too far behind the story at important moments or the fact that I just didn't like the characters.

I mean they had no redeemable traits at all. Sure there was a rehabilitation of sorts at the end with the embrace but on the basis of the previous 9 pages I'm thinking they will be at each throats again within moments. so it devalues the projected "happy" ending that we see.

As I said your writing is slick, clever & most of all practically error free, with some very quotable lines here & there. It's just a pity I couldn't "get into" the plot & characters more.

I'd suggest expnding it, 10 pages is far too short for the kind of story you want to take on here. This can definitely faciltate development & expansion, flesh out the back story & continue on after Tommy makes bail. Show us has he learned anything from his meeting with his bro, or is he still gonna be the same?

Best of luck with this, plenty of potential here.

Cheers.

Col.


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tonkatough
Posted: January 14th, 2009, 2:08am Report to Moderator
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I read this and I have been sitting at my computer for over a minute trying to think how to respond.

Problem is like Colkurtz said above, the writing is faultless so I can't comment on that.

For what it is the story is solid and typical. Angry man with father issues. I like how Tommy is a thug and the worst of the two brothers because when Dan left he sort of coped the full load of father's violence. But as I read on it left me wandering why Tommy doesn't just do what Dan did and just leave his father behind him or at the least beat on his father- his old enough to do it.

I disagree with everyone who say you should beef up this short with flashbacks. I quite liked how your story hints at stuff like boys childhood with father, Dan's family and how it forced my imagination to to do the hard work of filling in the blanks. Not everything has to be shown or told, people can imagine the rest.

If you're going to start adding flashbacks and Dan family you might as well just turn this into a feature.

And this is what I feel is the problem with this short as the content is not suitable for a short. From all the shorts I've read here they are basically just a central problem or conflict that is qukcly built up to a quick resolution or a series set up to a clever twist.

Your script is none of this and it feels like a tale of two borthers down two diffrent paths but with a lot of gaps and peices missing- mainly the support cast to conflict against the brothers and give drama.

Tommy deserves more then 10 pages and a longer story arc to face his demons and get over his father's abuse or abuse his father back.

I feel this would work better as a feature. It fails as a short cause it is to complex and mulitlayered to be a short.

    


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rjbelair
Posted: January 14th, 2009, 11:10am Report to Moderator
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Hi All,

First off, a big thanks to everyone who invested their time and talent to read and respond to my script.   I’ve only been participating in the SimplyScripts community for a couple of months now, but I’ve found the writers here to be very generous, and the feedback to be invaluable.

As for this script, what I was going for was to write toward a “moment of discovery.”  I think my biggest failing is that I may have been too subtle with this, and as a consequence lost any power this moment might convey.  

My idea was that Tommy, the brawler, goes around getting in fights and he doesn’t really understand why.  Through the course of the showdown with his brother, Dan finally realizes what’s driving Tommy.  Their dad, some little while after giving them a beating, would feel guilty an give the victim a hug and a “no hard feelings.”  This was about the only affection Tommy got from his father, and now – out in the world on his own – he’s not comfortable connecting with other people, so he’s subconsciously seeking to recreate the scenario with his father.  Only in the real world, no one’s giving him a hug after the beating.

Once Dan realizes this, and gives Tommy that affection that he’s been missing, my sense of the story was that with Tommy returning the hug, he too came to an understanding about himself and his violent behavior.  I was hoping that this was sufficient to communicate that, with this new self-awareness, Tommy could now make some changes, and more importantly that these disconnected brothers will now have a connection once again.

I may have been counting too much on the notion that the actors would bring this subtext more to the fore without me having to resort to “on the nose” type dialogue.  I don’t want to hit people over the head with these ideas, but I definitely don’t want to leave the audience scratching their heads at the end wondering what just happened.

If anyone has any further insights to offer on my predicament, I’d welcome the input.  Thanks again to every one who commented so far!

-RayB



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Toby_E
Posted: January 14th, 2009, 11:47am Report to Moderator
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Yo what's up Ray,

I was a big fan of your first script, "Memories of Goodbye", and you always leave great, constructive feedback on other pieces of work, so I was looking forward to reading this.

A few things I notices whilst reading:

Page 5- "The Joey unlocks..." - The Joey?

Page 6- As Col said, Dan's turn around, from being so mad at Tommy is too abrupt. It doesn't ring true.

Page 8- Dan's speech; "It doesn't take a genius to see that you're angry. You can't just take out your problems on strangers." would sound better as; "It doesn't take a genius to see that you're angry. But you can't keep taking out your problems on strangers."

Page 10- "Realization sweeps over Dan." - I don't understand this line mate. What does Dan realise from Tommy not turning to face him?

Okay, I finished the script, and it was wonderful. Really not much to criticse, apart from the things I've mentioned above. You are definitely a talented writer. The first scene was awesome, really painted the type of guy Tommy is. Only real complaint I had (which hasn't already been mentioned above) was that in the second half of the script, Tommy became a bit too passive, and Dan kind of took the front seat. Nothing too major I suppose.

Also, as someone said above, I think a few flashbacks showing their father's abuse would be very effective sprinkled throughout the jail scene. It would offer some good backstory, and also break up this long scene. I think the flashbacks would work well if they weren't too long; Very rapid scenes, lasting only a few seconds would work very well.

But yeah, this was an awesome short. Congrats on this man.

Toby.


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JonnyBoy
Posted: January 19th, 2009, 12:36pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Raymond,

I absolutely LOVED 'Memories of a Goodbye' (perhaps because of its similarities in tone to 'Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind', one of my all-time favourite films), and I always see you leave considered and constructive comments on people's scripts, so I really wanted to give this a read. So I did.

Clearly it's very well-written. Your use of description is economical but perfectly clear; I too liked the 'lost in the water' moment. There were loads of bits I really liked. I knew who Tommy was by the end of the first page. I really like him as a character. Actually, that's wrong, I don't like him. I pity him, continue to feel disappointed by him, and yet I WANT him to realise just how self-destructive he's being. He's a really interesting character, and I think deserves a longer story with a more satisfying resolution. But more of that later.

The scene with the girl in the bar was really nice, shows just how successful this guy could be if he managed to get things together. I liked Geno. He, in a way, is a kind of father-figure to Tommy, offering advice, trying to prevent him attacking the poor guy who accidentally backs into Tommy. April's horror, and that Tommy was too fixed on looking for a fight that he didn't even notice, was nice. Dan's introduction worked well. I too don't think you needed flashbacks for the father stuff, if you're going to leave this as a short.

As I read the script through a second time I realised the moment where Tommy says 'No hard feelings' to the Jock is very poignant, since I'm guessing that what Tommy is, in a way, looking for is the kind of post-beating hug he would get from his father. This guy goes around fighting because that's all he's ever known. Except all he gets now is the violence, without even the hug that made it "almost seem worth it sometimes." Nice touch.

Here's the things I didn't really completely buy. Having him go over to the Jock and start the fight didn't really work for me. It was too...random? Probably the wrong word, but still. Him being so violent and aggressive towards the guy who accidentally backed into him was perfectly believable, But that Tommy simply sees a guy who's bigger than him, wanders over and starts a fight just left me feeling confused. Putting him near the pool table left open the possibility of encorporating that. Maybe this guy's winning game after game, Tommy goes over to challenge him, and instead of playing they end up fighting? Maybe not that idea, but I just felt Tommy needed a big more motivation to attack this guy than merely 'looking for a fight'.

I also didn't like the fact that at one point Dan almost came across as a coward, someone who ran away to save his own hide and left Tommy to face their father's rage alone. That Dan was in a way responsible for his brother's plight. I didn't really like that I was being made to dislike Dan. Also, not knowing whether there was any truth in Tommy's accusations about Dan beating his kids was frustrating. If they were simply lies, why Dan's violent response? (The answer to that is probably, 'Dan resents Tommy comparing him to their father', but I don't think that's ENOUGH of an answer.) If it's true, then that completely undermines my faith in Dan and his ability to help Tommy. Which might sound simplistic, but it's the truth. I think Dan needs to be a nicer person; having him sink to Tommy's level, succumb to the winding-up and hitting him didn't really fit IMO.

I agree with Col that a couple of the turnarounds seemed almost too abrupt. Again, this links in with my refusal to accept that Tommy would just beat the jock for no reason. Some of Tommy's actions don't seem ENTIRELY plausible. I really like the character you've written, I think he's really interesting. But at the moment he seems a tiny bit too whimsical. It may be your intention that he's the kind of person that just does things, but then his instant regret about what he says to Dan doesn't quite fit.

I also think the ending was a bit of a nothing. You wanted Tommy to have a moment of self-realisation, but it was all perhaps a bit muted. He accepts the hug hesitantly, but suddenly he's holding on like he never wants to let go. I totally got that Dan was coming to an understanding of what drove his brother, but that Tommy was also realising what was wrong with him didn't register with me, sorry. Perhaps there wasn't enough emotion. Perhaps the dialogue was a little TOO vague, although I liked that much of what they'd been through was implied and hinted at rather than spelt out.

I think I've written more about the things I didn't like than the things I did. Sorry. I did really enjoy this. I really like the way you write. I would, in fact, like to see this as a feature. I think it HAS to be a feature. As Glenn said, as a short this doesn't work not because it's not interesting, but because it's perhaps TOO interesting. There's too much here, too much hinted at and implied for any kind of resolution after only ten pages to feel satisfying. I mentioned Geno before as a kind of father figure (I'm assuming he's older, he may not be). Someone else mentioned the mother; I'd like to see her at some point, hear her disappointment and pain first-hand. There's so much more you could do with Tommy, and I really hope you do.

So yeah, that's it. They're more general thoughts and reactions rather than a considered critique, Hopefully there are a couple of things you could use in there. I really did like this. I just wanted more. My suggested way out of your 'predicament' is to sit down and give this story the time it needs to find a proper resolution. Thank you for posting it, and I'm really glad I read it. But, in the end, it doesn't work as a short. It's too tantalising, too incomplete. I agree with everyone who says that this needs to be longer, much longer. This isn't short material, this is feature material. So please, give Tommy the long, painful, ultimately redemptive story he deserves!

Oh, and if you do, change the title. 'Brawler' is rubbish.

Jon


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Andrew
Posted: March 19th, 2009, 6:33am Report to Moderator
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Hi Ray,

To continue the theme, I'd just like to preface my comments with an acknowledgment of your own comments for my script, which were insightful and very helpful, so thank you for that.

It's already been said, but the writing here makes the reading easy, and it was a pleasure. The opening scenes to me felt reminiscent of 'Eternal Sunshine..' with the quick cuts showing Tommy leading a fairly mundane TV dinner existence, so I think it shaped my expectations towards the remaining pages. With that in mind, I was expecting the rest of the story to display similar minimalistic approach, but it erupts pretty quickly thereafter to a guy searching out fights. That was a disconnect for me, but most likely due to my own expectations.

I see from your own admission, you intended the closing scene to be an awakening for Tommy, but, I felt a lot of his dialogue suggested he was already aware of it.

I liked Tommy's exchange with April, and it helped me picture Tommy as a guy with a cocky senitivity - a trait common in the 'hard man', I think. The quality of your writing made me want to see some development between the two, so you successfully made me care about their fledgling evening!

This is certainly something I enjoyed, and I think it's a good showcase for your writing. I would be keen to read a feature of yours.

All the best,
Andrew


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wjw
Posted: March 19th, 2009, 8:26am Report to Moderator
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Like others have said, the plot has enough depth to be extended a hell of a lot further. I think a lot of that comes from the strong characters and the insiuated pasts that they both have; together and apart.

I do think some of the characters personalities are a little bit odd. Not odd. More snappy. One instance I found myself re-reading because the two guys seemed to go from friendly chatting to mindblowing angry exchanges in a heartbeat. I was a bit confused. But hey, I could be slow.

Great overall though.
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Seth
Posted: March 19th, 2009, 9:58am Report to Moderator
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This was a very well written, well told story. One that held my attention. That said, I haven't anything to pick at.

I will say this, like Tonka, I disagree with those who suggest the story might benefit from a flash back or two. The inclusion of such would, I think, throw a wrench into a story that slowly unfolds, revealing itself in measured -- read: satisfying -- beats (no pun intended).

I will, though, disagree with Tonka on one point. I didn't feel the story was typical. This story, while action packed, had a psychological subtext that is lacking in many, if not most, shorts that I've read.

Well done.

Seth


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xerces_
Posted: June 22nd, 2009, 2:13am Report to Moderator
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I though this was very well-written and engaging. Like Seth, I agree that reading a short with psychological depth was great, as I don't see many. Simple but effective descriptions, and a tone that can be easily visualised. I would definitely not use flashbacks - chances are they would detract from everything you have already established in the script. You really don't need to hit people over the head further - you spelled it out in dialogue, which is enough. Also because it was revelatory - it didn't matter that you spelled it out in the dialogue - it had impact.

The only part that bothered me was when the brothers stopped and laughed together for a moment. It took me out of the moment and seemed very abrupt.

With a couple of good actors this could be very special. Well done.

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JamminGirl
Posted: June 24th, 2009, 1:47am Report to Moderator
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Raymond, I love your prose. Very visual. Your dialogue is loaded with subtext too. Just work on the story a bit more. You'll go a long way...


Family Picnic 10 pages.

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by T. Jasmine Hylton
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