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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Meet Joe Moderators: bert
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  Author    Meet Joe  (currently 1529 views)
Don
Posted: January 21st, 2009, 7:29pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Meet Joe by Xavier Gonzalez - Short - Joe is a homeless man in the city who loves to smoke and has a bad COUGH... 3 pages.  - pdf, format


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dogglebe
Posted: January 21st, 2009, 10:36pm Report to Moderator
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The biggest problem with this script is that you don't give the reader anything about Joe to like.  Are you trying to make us be like the passerby's in the story.  Joe have Joe doing this.  Joe doing that.  Joe doing something else.  And the story ends.  I think if you had him do something positive, or nice, I might care about him.  Right now I don't.

Some of your descriptions could be a little tighter.  If you introduce him as JOE in the first paragraph, instead of the third, it looks like you could eliminate on line on the page.


Quoted Text
EXT. CITY STREETS- DAY

Joe counts the money from inside the stolen cup. It is not
too much but enough for him. He walks into a convenience
store.


This passage isn't needed.  Delete that you saved another five lines.

I recommend that, in the future, you do not submit first drafts.  A lot of people, here, don't like to read them because they are so problematic.  Instead, put it away for a bit and then look at it with fresh eyes.  You'll see a lot of things to change, yourself, and will be able to submit a better script.


Phil
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Xavier
Posted: January 22nd, 2009, 3:26pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks Phil for the comment, and yes you're right the whole point of this story is that YOU the reader are like the passerby's in the story, you're not supposed to care for this character, he's just like every other homeless person you see on the streets, he can give less a crap if you care for him or not (which you don't) he just wants to survive. That's exactly why I ended the story the way I did, cause he's just another pointless homeless person in the streets of the busy city. No one needs him there and therefore he no longer is.

And about the actions: First, I announced his name in the third paragraph because he's a pointless character, his name isn't really important in my story. And that paragraph that you told me to delete, well I only wrote it like that because if you think of it visually he's expressing the way the money makes him feel, he can buy another packs of smokes, so when I say "it's enough for him" then it could just mean that he smiles, only I put a little more feeling into it.

So thanks for the comment, Phil. And thanks for posting the script, Don.


Those who believe that they are the best, the most popular, the go to guy, those are usually the ones who need the most help.
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Script_Monkey
Posted: January 22nd, 2009, 4:46pm Report to Moderator
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Hey mate, just read it. You could actually cut quite a bit off of this.

EXT. PUBLIC PARK - DAWN

JOE (34), a tramp, sits on a bench, his face maintains no
emotion. A cigarette hangs from his mouth. He lights it,
takes a long drag, COUGHS.

People walk past without a care. Children point and laugh,
disgruntled parents cart them away.

Joe grunts. He gets up and begins to walk the path.

That's my quick re-write. I've described the same scene but I've cut off the stuff that doesn't need to be there.

At the moment the story is about a homeless man that dies and what you're trying to get across is that nobody cares. Fair enough, but you could make this event so much more tragic. If you paint the tramp as a person who tries hard to get a job but is let down at every oppurtunity, the character already has my sympathy. What about the tramp trying to get in contact with his family who won't help him out?.

If you include something like this we can symphathize with the character.

From the script, I didn't get the impression that this person wanted to survive, I got the impression that he wanted it all to be over. If he wanted to survive why the hell would he buy cigarettes? Because he's at the bottom and doesn't care.











Revision History (4 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Script_Monkey  -  January 22nd, 2009, 5:02pm
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Xavier
Posted: January 22nd, 2009, 7:01pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the read. Actually the reason he buys cigarettes is for the same reason most people do: he thinks he can't survive without it. And he knows the difference between a cigarette and the things that can really keep him alive, that's why he trades one for food.

Another thing is that the story is not supposed to be tragic, I've NEVER thought of it liked that. In my mind Joe is one of those guys that I've always wondered what would they be like if you gave them their lives back? You're not supposed to care for him in a way in which you say: "Why doesn't somebody help him" but just to the point where you think: "Why doesn't he have more to live off of?"

but I will check over my writing, thanks for the tips and again for the read. If you have anything you want me to read just go ahead and tell me.




Those who believe that they are the best, the most popular, the go to guy, those are usually the ones who need the most help.
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dogglebe
Posted: January 22nd, 2009, 7:14pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Script_Monkey
From the script, I didn't get the impression that this person wanted to survive, I got the impression that he wanted it all to be over. If he wanted to survive why the hell would he buy cigarettes? Because he's at the bottom and doesn't care.


I've been to hospices where cigarettes (and booze) are given to the residents.  A lot of people think it's weird to give people smokes when they only have a few weeks to live.  The reason behind it is that the hospice isn't there to cure the residents, just to make them comfortable in their last days.

The same applies here.


Phil
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dogglebe
Posted: January 22nd, 2009, 7:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Xavier
Thanks Phil for the comment, and yes you're right the whole point of this story is that YOU the reader are like the passerby's in the story, you're not supposed to care for this character,


I understood this.  But the story isn't interesting unless you care about the character.


Phil

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Xavier
Posted: January 22nd, 2009, 7:28pm Report to Moderator
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Well if you want you can think of it in a way as a Black Comedy, the whole goal of a black comedy is to make a character that is unlikeable, someone that if he died at the end you'd say "Good" or "ah, who gives a shit".

But if you'd like I could always go back and put in some extra things about the character, there was a lot about the character that I left out things that could point out why he's the way he is.


Those who believe that they are the best, the most popular, the go to guy, those are usually the ones who need the most help.
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dogglebe
Posted: January 22nd, 2009, 7:38pm Report to Moderator
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I think you need to add something.

And I don't agree with your black comedy explanation.  B;ack comedies are either parodies or comedies of subjects to grim for comedies.


Phil
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Xavier
Posted: January 22nd, 2009, 7:51pm Report to Moderator
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True but if you look up the definition of a black comedy character you will see that what I say is true: But what I'm trying to say is that it's easier to kill off a character in a black comedy than it is in any other type of genre accept for horror.



Those who believe that they are the best, the most popular, the go to guy, those are usually the ones who need the most help.
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dogglebe
Posted: January 22nd, 2009, 10:14pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Xavier
But what I'm trying to say is that it's easier to kill off a character in a black comedy than it is in any other type of genre accept for horror.


I'm gonna disagree with you on this, too.

If a character isn't properly developed, the genre doesn't matter.


Phil
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Martinus
Posted: January 23rd, 2009, 6:47am Report to Moderator
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Writing about love, beauty and robots.

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Hey Xavier,

I just read this little script of yours, and honestly I don't particularly like it in its current form, mainly because of the reasons Phil gave. The story would become so much stronger if Joe was more likeable. I had a really hard time feeling sorry for him in the end. If you improve this aspect, you'll wind up with a far more interesting script.

About this passage:

MAN
I don't see why those people can't
go get real lives.

I couldn't really imagine the man saying that, it didn't really flow in my head. Just to give a suggestion:

MAN
Sorry hon, but I just don't understand why these people are throwing away their lives.

Just my two cents


I will return reads as fast as possible!

My scripts:

Shattered - Short: Two men who meet each other in a prison cell find that they have more in common than they'd like...

Tough as Pins (work in progress)
Bulletbound (work in progress)
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Xavier
Posted: January 23rd, 2009, 2:37pm Report to Moderator
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Cool, thanks for the read.

And yeah I understand that people like to feel things for the many characters of a story. Of course I wasn't trying to go for a Stranger Than Fiction character where you're thinking why does he have to die, I just wanted to show how a homeless person lives his last day, which I forgot to mention to Phil and Script_Monkey. And plus I doubt that you would care for a real homeless person that you see walking through the streets steeling, smoking and coughing in your face, would you?

Anyhow thanks for the read again and the comment, I'll try to fix up the script as much as I can. Maybe make Joe a bit more likable, maybe you'll give it a better review next time.


Those who believe that they are the best, the most popular, the go to guy, those are usually the ones who need the most help.
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jayrex
Posted: January 23rd, 2009, 7:17pm Report to Moderator
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Cut to three weeks earlier

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Hello Xavier,

I've read your script and the comments above.

I can see you're aim of writing the last day of this homeless man.  But I don't get it, why?  

You got to have a reason, a purpose to show us how crap this man's life is.  How it got this way.  Otherwise it's practically another day in his life except he dies.  

Remember, nobody nowadays are born homeless.  So what happened?

I think you should have this character full of remorse and with no motivation.  This way we can have a glimpse into his life.  From where he came to where he is now.

Aside from that, you have a few spelling errors and grammar errors to correct.  But I believe you're improving on your previous scripts.

All the best,


Javier


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Xavier
Posted: January 23rd, 2009, 9:43pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the comment, Javier.

Yeah I try to make each script better than the last. But on my schedule that's hard to do. So I'm surprised that I can even find the time to write even a three page long script.

I understand how all of you would like to feel for Joe. Maybe his death can be a little more meaningful, but even if I do add more about the character nothing will make his death more meaningful, I mean he dies from a nasty illness that he had no idea about, he's homeless he doesn't really care much about his health, he just wants to survive, that's all. I guess what I'm saying is that no matter how much more stuff I put in it's not going to change the way the ending makes you feel "unchanged" there is no sadness or happiness in my ending, it just is and once again I don't think anything can change that.

But I will take your advice and add a little more to the character to reveal more about Joe to you.


Those who believe that they are the best, the most popular, the go to guy, those are usually the ones who need the most help.
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