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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Soul Shadows II: Just a Dream Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: May 21st, 2009, 12:35pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Soulshadows II: Just a Dream by Tyler Higgins (Tanis by Robert Newcomer) - Series, Supernatural - Devon, feeling neglected and unimportant, escapes his unfortunate reality through his dreams.  When his dreams turn to nightmares, Devon realizes he may have made a huge mistake. - pdf, format




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Don  -  May 21st, 2009, 12:47pm
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grademan
Posted: May 21st, 2009, 4:09pm Report to Moderator
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I liked it. Roger is very well drawn as the antagonist. The supporting cast is very good especially Gus. The eyes in the knife thing, didn't work for me but I got it. A very good addition to the series. Higgonator, good job! Tanis is quite the fascinating character -- can we get  an episode on her?

Gary
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James McClung
Posted: May 21st, 2009, 4:13pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Tyler,

I have to admit I was interested in reading your Soul Shadows entry as I remember you mentioning not being much of a horror fan due to their lack of realism. I guess it stands to reason that you'd opt for subject matter where realism doesn't apply.

I should mention I'm somewhat opposed to dreams in films. Generally, I think dreams function on such a different level than reality that they can't be interpreted accurately onscreen or even come close. Nevertheless, I think you've captured the essense of lucid dreaming. I think every once and a while, people realize they're dreaming yet it's still difficult to take full control. Devon's lack of control in a universe that's essentially completely under his control feels very organic so I think you did an excellent job in establishing the story's atmosphere. You also seem to have done a lot of research, which is always tedious, so kudos for that as well.

I would, however, like to know what prompts all interest in dreams (in Devon, not you). The first dream doesn't seem all that out of the ordinary. It feels like something just randomly clicked in the guy. Nothing seems to kick off the script, other than the script itself. It feels a little too convenient. Maybe you could expand on the stress Devon's feeling about talking to this girl. As is Gus's character. It seems strange that this guy would know all about the stuff or, at least, have an interest in it. It also makes Devon look stupid. He could just as easily find the websites himself. I'd recommend Gus actually be taking a class on the subject (perhaps a psychology course?). I think that would help lessen the movie-ish quality of the script. I also think Kelly and Dad need to have more relavent roles. Dad is especially useless. Both feel tacked on, nevertheless, even though Kelly tries to come through for Devon in the end.

Overall, I think is was a good effort. It held my interest and was not predictable. I actually gave the audio a listen as well. A little silly at times (Tanis sounds way more Irish than I expected) but fun.


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stevie
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 7:04pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Tyler. Look, man, I won't pull any punches: I couldn't get into this at all. No probs with the formatting and style but the actual story was all over the place. I know you're not a horror fan and kudos to you for attempting something like this.
But it was like having horror or fantasy applied to your 'Squirt' series - it just didn't gel.
After reading Mike's great opener, this didn't fit in to the theme. Cheers



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steven8
Posted: May 23rd, 2009, 5:15am Report to Moderator
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Tyler,

I liked this script as a story, and I feel it was well written, but I don't think it fit the Soulshadows theme completely.  The dagger is used to steal souls, I got that idea, but the object was meant to have been in the possession of, or near someone, when they die and it absorbs their 'soul', right?  Then the story was to show how that absorbed soul affected someone after the soul was absorbed.  I would like to see how this daggered affected someone if they happened upon it and possessed it.

About the script technically, I really liked the way you flowed between reality and dreams.  I've been at odds on how to do that, and you've handled it very well.  I believe this script would film very well.


...in no particular order
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stebrown
Posted: May 23rd, 2009, 8:12am Report to Moderator
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Hey Tyler, I really liked this episode. I thought it was an interesting premise and the characters were well developed. There were some nice angles with the Mom and Kelly as the real love interest. I thought they all helped to make Devon a believable protagonist.

Gus was a little cliche but I felt he worked. It was the sort of character you needed to get the information across but maybe he needed something fresh. Someone gave me the advice a while ago about a gangster I had in one of my scripts. If you're dealing with the type of character that appears in a lot of movies then give him something special, maybe just a character trait that is very unique for him. I think Gus' character could have used a little more work.

The whole idea behind this script was really interesting for me because it's similar in a way to a book I just read, called 'The Lathe of Heaven' by Ursula Le Guin. It deals with a man who can change things in reality through his dreams. It's an interesting read if you'd like to check it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lathe_of_Heaven

The pacing and structure of the script was really good too, it was a fast read and all came together well. The pacing increased the nearer we got to the end, which made it an exciting finish.

I really liked this, well done.


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Mr.Ripley
Posted: May 23rd, 2009, 4:05pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Tyler,

I see you added an extra scene in the beginning displaying the object. That's good. It flows better showing the object, in my opinion. I think I mentioned before but if I didn't I liked how it develops structure and story wise.  

Something that came to me when reading was Kelly's interest in Devon. I think you should show a bit more of that early on maybe like she asking Devon to go out indirectly or something similar to that.  

Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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steven8
Posted: May 23rd, 2009, 9:52pm Report to Moderator
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Tyler, I owe you an apology.  I went back and looked at the requirements for the series, and I had actually twisted them in my mind.  The object merely has to have a death near it, and the soul transferred into the object - as stated in the original thread.

In that case, and I am sorry, your story meets the requirements just fine, and as I really like the script and the way it flows it is a very solid piece of work.

See what happens when you get something stuck in your head and can't get it out?  Totally farks you up.

Now, people, let's get to reading this and making some good comments for Tyler.  Not enough in this thread yet!!


...in no particular order
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Higgonaitor
Posted: May 24th, 2009, 9:39am Report to Moderator
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Hey everyone,
First off, thanks for the reads.  They are, of course, greatly appreciated.

Grademan, thanks for the read, I'm glad you liked it.

James, while I do think that Devon's interest in dreams and lucid dreaming is not totally unreasonable, I do agree that it is a weak point in the script.  I did think of that when writing this, but I had a bit of a problem with length and the only solutions I could come up with required at least a page.  I'll keep thinking, I s'pose.

Stevie- I'm sorry you didn't like it.  I don't really see how it relates to Squirt, but thats okay.  I would appreciate, however, if you could be a little more specific.  When people don't like a script they have a special opportunity to help the writer make it better through constructive advice--unfortunately (not to pull any punches) all your advice seemed to offer was that it was bad.  If you could elaborate, like explain how you thought the story was all over the place or offer a solution, for example, I'd be really thankful.

Steven, I'm glad you liked it, thanks for the review

Ste- I agree that Gus's character is a bit cliche, and I really like that idea of giving cliche characters a single trait that breaks the cliche--I'll definitely think of something for Gus.  I'm glad you liked it, too.

Mr. Ripley,
Thanks for the re-read.The kelly-issue is another I'll give at least some of the blame to length restraints.  However, excuses are for losers, and I agree that it would improve the script to have Kelly show at least a little more interest in Devon earlier on, so I'll work on it.

Thanks all,
Tyler


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steven8
Posted: May 24th, 2009, 11:38am Report to Moderator
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I liked Gus' character.  He's that clingy guy who just wants so badly to fit in that he'll never fit in.  He's a jack of all trades but master of none.  Especially 'fringe' trades, such as the lucid dreaming.


...in no particular order
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mcornetto
Posted: May 25th, 2009, 4:48pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Tyler,

That was a slightly different version than the one I read earlier.  I think in some ways you improved things, in some ways maybe not.

First off, I did like that you included more of the Roger character and tried to explain a bit more how he fits in with what Devon is going through.  I still would have liked to have understand him a bit more.

I'm not sure if you did or not but I would have liked to have seen a non-dream sort of scene with Kelly and Devon interaction (not just that one scene in the library).  You might have had this scene but I think it got lost in my memory shuffle.

I don't understand why his father doesn't answer the door when Kelly knocks.

I think it would have been good when Kelly wakes him in the library if he showed some dissociative behaviour.  This would have given Kelly more of a reason to be worried.

I think you added the scene with his mother in the kitchen and I didn't really think that worked.  The reason is it sort of was in the middle of this tense part and it kind of lost the tension.  Plus there really was no mention of his mother before or after. It sort of seemed extraneous to the story.  You have a lot of story there for the page count so you don't really need to have extra.

Overall, I found it a fun little story and thought you did a good job with your episode.

And Bert,  I loved Tanis in this one - even though she sounds a bit Irish on the recording.  

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Don  -  May 25th, 2009, 7:36pm
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stevie
Posted: May 25th, 2009, 7:28pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Tyler. I thimk the main problem I had with this, is I wasn't sucked straight into it. mike's did this. Ok, I know it's a bit unfair to compare it to his, but the overall theme is meant to be this dreamy, sort of spooky vibe. Yours started as more of a teen rom-com and simply put it some vague horror elements. The point I was making with 'Squirt' is the setting; the normal town, normal kids,etc.
I get the basic feel of what you were trying to do here, it just seemed to be out of reach a bit. There was no sense of a buildup to the climax. But hey, good on you for having a crack at it.



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tonkatough
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Take control of your dreams is always a fun idea.

I am finding this one hard to comment on because it wasn't bad, but it didn't knock my socks off. It was well written and the format was spot on but it did not engage me.  So I don't know what to say.

I agree with what Steve wrote above.

I liked the little details such as Father who ignores his son and sits in front of TV. Gus who goes around the library asks anyone and everyone "what's up?"

Roger was kind of weak for an antagonist. Did I understand correctly that he is some sort lost God who demands a blood sacrifice? How you have Roger is like an annoying big brother inside his head.

By the end I thought it was a little sad how Devon feels overlooked and unwanted and yet he has overlooked Kelly for a girl he was too afraid to approach.

There is defiantly a theme you have going on here and maybe you should have used the first half of the story to explore that theme rather then just have fast forward clip of Devon doing his homework on Lucid dreaming.  Maybe just have a pill or some sort of drug that make you lucid dream. That would cut out the research stuff right there and free up your story to focus on other stuff such as the theme or conflict with Roger.






  


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Dreamscale
Posted: May 26th, 2009, 1:24pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Tyler, I actually read this last week, but wanted to wait a bit to see if my feelings changed at all.  Read it again this morning.  Sorry to say, but they didn’t.  This one just didn’t work for me.  I didn’t think it had the same kind of “feel” as any of the other Soul Shadows scripts so far, and what that means exactly is hard to put into words.

First off, this story didn’t seem like one that would be associated with such a series.  Maybe because the theme or meaning wasn’t something that stuck with me, or maybe I just didn’t get it at all.

Secondly, the item….the dagger, also didn’t seem to fit in for me.  Maybe because the dagger wasn’t really real in the first place?  I don’t know for sure.

Finally, the characters didn’t come across as real or engaging.  Gus was just plain irritating, based on his dialogue and mannerisms.  Devon didn’t really come across as much of a character either.  I didn’t hate him, but I didn’t like him at all either.  Roger could have been a great character, I think, but he didn’t work the way you developed him.  He had almost a Freddy Kruger persona (and the entire script kind of had a Nightmare on Elm Street vibe), but I don’t think you developed him or it enough. I never understood who he was, where he came from, what he was doing, or why this was all happening all of a sudden, only to Devon.

Some of the dream scenes were well done, and were definitely the highlight of the script.  The reality scenes really chugged though, in comparison.  You know, the cool thing about “Nightmare” was that the dreams and reality intertwined so well.  That’s not the case here, and I think it’s a problem.

I took some notes that may help.  Good effort here for sure, but it just didn’t do it for me.

Page 3 – You start things off with a 5 line description that is filled with clunky writing (this may have been a reason why I was put off right from the start).  Check this passage out…

“He is short and skinny; but they are both dressed nicely--Devon in a button up shirt and Penny in a dress.”

OK, so he’s short and skinny, what about her?  Why use “;” and then “but”, and describe what they’re wearing?  I don’t know why you’d describe what they’re wearing at all here, but by combining it with a physical description on only one of them and then using the “but”, it just doesn’t read well at all, and that’s how you started things off.

Page 13 – This is a good example of some problems I saw throughout.  Check this out…

“Kelly stands by her locker as students swarm around her. She is looking for someone. Devon is nowhere to be seen. She waits by her locker.

The crowd of students begins to thin, and the bell rings.  Devon doesn’t come. Kelly takes one last look around, then jogs off.”

So, we’ve got Kelly looking for “someone” by her locker, and then you start talking about Devon being nowhere to be seen…Kelly waiting…Devon not coming…Kelly jogging off.

Do you see why this passage doesn’t work at all?  The unfilmables and information from you that we can’t see or know?  If Kelly had just said to one of those swarming students, “Where’s Devon?”  or “Have you guys seen Devon?”  Then, it would have made some sense, but as it is, it’s a waste.

I found a bunch of things like this throughout the script, and this may be why it didn’t do it for me, Tyler.  I don’t know, but I gave it 2 reads, and being a Soul Shadows entry, I wanted to like it.

Hope this helps a bit. Take care.
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Higgonaitor
Posted: May 28th, 2009, 2:51pm Report to Moderator
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Michael,
Thanks for the re-read.  My main problem here was with the page limit, i think.  i think this was too big of a idea to fit in thirty pages and the script suffers because of it.  An extra scene explaining ROger a bit more would have been nice, but there's no room.  AN extra scene between Kelly and Devon would have been nice, but there's no room.  An extra scene further explaining the dynamic of the relationship between devon and his father would have been nice, but there was no room...etc.  For the purposes of soul shadows, I really can't add extra scenes, all I can do is condense and hope to get more into the scenes I already have, which I will try to do.

As for the scene with his mother in the kitchen, it was in the one you read earlier.  Honestly, I'm a fan of this scene.  I think that losing a mother, the one who's supposed to care for you, is an almost integral part of in this story of feeling uncared for.  However, I do see that there would be benefits in ditching the idea of his mom being dead--namely that it would give me more room to expand on the rest of the ideas in the script.

Thanks again for the re-read.

Stevie,
I'm sorry, but I'm still confused.  A teen Rom-Com?  I didn't think this was funny at all.  I suppose I have been wrong before, but any humor in this script, excepting Gus' line about how Kelly totally digs devon, is unintentional.  I'll read through it again for signs or Rom-Comedy, but since no one else has said anything to that effect, I won't make it to high a priority.  And as for comparing it to Squirt because it takes place in a normal town with normal kids....that seems, no offense, a little silly to me.  There are literally thousands of movies in every genre that use normal people in a normal town.  The fact that they're teenagers is simply because I am a firm believer in the "write what you know" idea.  Seriously though, i don't want this to be misconstrued as me being unthankful for your feedback...I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of why you didn't like it so that I can fix it.

Tonka,
Thanks for the read, and I'm sorry it didn't knock your socks off.  I agree with you that I could use the first half of the story more efficiently, but I want it to remain based in reality (haha) and the idea of a pill that makes you lucid dream is not yet (unfortunately) a reality.  Thanks for the advice, I definetely do need to work more on the theme and the conflict with Roger.

Dreamscale,
I can't really address your first two points as they're a little... underdeveloped?

As for the characters...:  People seem to either love or hate gus.  My first review on this script told me that they loved Gus, the next, that they found him incredibly irritating, the next that they didn't have any sort of problem with him and found him neccesary, and so on.  Eventually I just decided to keep him in.  I didn't really get to develop ROger as much as I would have liked to, and I agree with you that he doesn't reach his full potential as a character, and as a result comes off as...odd.

I didn't describe Penny because her physical attributes don't have any significance, and her role in the script is very small.  You mentioned that you don't like long clunky action lines...I avoid them by not describing little details that are unimportant, like what Penny looks like.  That could be completely up to the director.

Devon, however, is the main character of the script--that is why he gets more of a description.  It is important for Devon to be small to accentuate his sense of helplessness in the real world, a subtle theme throughout the script.

And I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with your next point about Kelly waiting by the lockers.  This is not something that cannot be shown.  Someone would have to be pretty, well, stupid not to put two and two together here.  Kelly is waiting outside the lockers where she and devon met up in a previous scene.  SHe is looking for someone.  Dveon is the main character, the focus of the story.  A line like "Where'es Devon?" is a waste of space and even somewhat insulting to the audience.  They can figure out basic things---not everything needs to be delivered on a silver platter of obviousness.

Like I said to Stevie though, i don't want this to be misconstrued as me being unthankful for your feedback...I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of why you didn't like it so that I can fix it.

Thanks for the reads everyone,  you are all really helping me to improve this script a great deal, and I truly appreciate it.




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