Bobby Leigh Died At Sea by Paul S. Carrington (silverwolf) - Horror - A family sailing trip takes a turn for the worst when their yacht is overmastered by a band of murderous fishermen.  PDF file(90 pages) - pdf, format

Unsure who (whom?) I thank for getting this up, so I'll just thank Simply Scripts.

It might be worth noting that this is my first feature script, so to those who take the time to read it, please bare that in mind.  And enjoy.

Thank you.

Bobby Leigh Died at Sea

Paul, Congrats on your first feature length script.. Good draft but needs some serious work:

The writing of action and descriptive lines needs work. Here are my comments on the logline, title page, and the opening scene.

The use of the word “overmastered” in the logline is curious.  Would “overpowered ” or ‘”pirated” make it more plain what happened?

No need to put your title in quotes.

Pg 1 “Darkness and terror.”  This is more of a sequence heading rather than a descriptive or action line.

Pg 1 “ …and we see him properly for the first time.” Not needed.

Pg 1 “He grimaces at the unseen horror inside.”  If Slim can grimace at it doesn’t he see it or is it somehow the audience doesn’t see it? Besides “unseen horror” is trite

Pg 1 “…a hint of some unspeakable horror.”  Trite again. Probably better without the phrase.

Pg 1 “Slim in the doorway looks inside.” Put the verb closer to the character for an easier read and more action-like feel to it. For example:.”Slim looks in the door.

Pg 2 “It lands with a splash!” No exclamation needed. How about “SPLASH.”?

Pg 2 Isn’t a dingy different than a life raft?

Pg 2 “starts to row” How about “rows”

KISS: Keep it Simple Scriptwriter is my best advice. Clean up these items the opening scene will read much better.

There’s no dialogue in the opening scene. After that, the dialogue and writing is much easier to read

Pg 10 bear instead of bare,  also no need to underline words for emphasis.

Pg 18 “It’s Slim!” The audience knows this but the Darlings don’t.

Pg 31 is sat should be sits

Pg 42 Exclamation marks are usually not needed in the action lines

Pg 53 the horror begins

Pg 57 whore not hoar

Pg 62 “under its majesty” overwriting

Pg 65 I think you meant the cockpit

Pg 68 “magnum expression” ? OK, I got it. As in “unusual in power”

Pg 71 Aerial shot scene – interesting

Pg 73 “seems to weep in the way only dogs can’” overwriting

Pg 77 Things are getting creepy nw.

Pg 78 THE PROWLER POV doesn’t work – especially since “We” is the protagonist through it all. Why not continue the story without the flashback?

The third act is interesting and is a basic horror ending adequately done. However, without foreshadowing of Robin’s abilities it doesn’t stand up. Robin isn’t setup as the  avenging angel. Sure, there’s reference to a phoenix and the prowler as somehow being separate from Robin but it is not clearly defined. Your ending is one of those which the audience will either get it or not depending on what they think of Leo's introduction.

Hope this patchwork of comments help with your next draft.

Gary

Thanks, grademan for the comments.  Extremely helpful.  Yes, "cockpit", how embarrasing!

I don't class the long POV(steadycam) sequence as a flashback.  I like the idea of letting the audience experience the same events but from another perspective.  I think it's a decent enough scene worth keeping.  You're right on the money with THE PROWLER -- I thought I took that out.

I see this as a film of two halves; the first is more grounded in reality, whereas the second descends more into fantasy.  I don't see Bobby Leigh/Robin as having any kind of special abilities, rather she's simply been incredibly lucky in her recklessness.

Again, thanks so much for the comments.  You're the first outsider whose commented back to me on it and you've opened my eyes to a number of things I can improve up on.

I must say this is a right good effort for your first screenplay. I do think there are some things you could fix here and there but as it is, it was pretty darn entertaining, especially after page 50.

I will say that the story does take a while to get started. Lots of character development going on with Bobby Leigh, her Father and Laura. Lots of pages covering this, the upcoming proposal etc. When they find Slim on the boat, things got interesting, then it really blasted off after page 50 odd. Maybe some cuts could be made in the first 30 pages to help keep this going at a good pace. The intercut scene between Josh and his father and Bobby Leigh and Laura about the food never added anything to the story and would not be missed.

We see Slim right in the very first scene but it’s page 20 before the boat appears. This could happen maybe 10 pages earlier to really spice things up. Conversations which happen early in the script like Paul’s suicide attempt could happen when Slim is on the boat. Right now, the first 20 pages are just talking and not much action, Slim appearing right away would keep the reader on guard because we KNOW something’s going to happen when he shows up plus we still get to know what we need to know about the characters.

I will give you extra points for having real badass bad guys. They freaked me out. Really, they did. After Bobby Leigh’s family are killed, it would be nice if there was another scene where she could board another stranded boat looking for help and see the bad guys torturing the helpless folks aboard. Bobby Leigh would be forced to hide until it’s over, it would create a bit of suspense as to whether they would find her again or not. It would also give you a chance to show some more kills on screen, which you did a great job doing. The scene where she boards the boat looking for help to find them all dead was nice though as it tied in with the beginning. Another scene would be good, you could have more pages to play with anyway if you introduce Slim earlier.

I got the ending but wasn't crazy about it. Robin being a little reckless after watching that happen to her family is understandable although she must have been really lucky to overpower these big guys. I had a feeling the dog would save the day but not in the manner it did. Dawg deserved it though, it was a great scene. I was expecting some twist so it ended a little early for me.

Character wise, it was sound. The family tension kept me interested enough but as I’ve stated earlier, it’s the bad guys who really stand out. Dawg is in a league of his own. He takes killing a kid to a whole new level and his lines of dialogue after that were great! Slim was creepy in his own way but Watcher was too similar, with him not talking or doing much. I think he needs to be fleshed out more and your onto a winner.

I never had any problems with Bobby Leigh or Paul. Josh however, is a different matter. His first line of dialogue made me laugh. His first line is “So I see you're still acting the c*nt”, from that line, I thought he would be a wee brat but he turns out to be the voice of reason between Bobby Leigh and her father. I didn’t like him, I didn’t know why he was there or what the point in him was. I couldn’t even get any satisfaction out of his death. I do think he needs some serious work. Laura could also get annoying in parts but not as much as Josh. Her constant worrying about Slim on the boat, shouting things like “Where did he come from?”. How the hell do they know where he came from? I think she needs to be less annoying as she is the pregnant girl who suffers big time so we need to care for her, or at least have nothing against her.

Dialogue was fairly standard until Dawg came along. You really did do a great job with his character, I can’t stress than enough. Some scenes could be reworked, like on page six, “Your mom's dead, Bobby Leigh!”, I think this could be told better through dialogue instead of being rammed down our throats like that. Too much on-the-nose for my liking. Page 29, “There's no room for sissy's on this boat. I need you to protect me” didn’t sound right at all. What is she? A sissy  needing her dog to protect her?  Dawg telling Robin where the extension was for the blow torch was kind of outrageous to be honest. We know he needs time to work on the ropes but wouldn’t he be doing that from the start anyway? That scene should be cut, it’s so unbelievable, it doesn’t fit in with the rest of your story.

I’m not a fan of the POV scene at all. We know it’s Robin down there, although it is nice to see how the hell she managed to take them down, this could be done another way instead of showing us everything over again. I was 50/50 on this, but the more I think about it, the more I think it’s not needed at all. Another scene that needs looked at is the conversation with Bobby Leigh and Laura on page 13. It didn’t really feel natural at all.  

There were more than a few times where you over-described things, a lot of which were pointed out in the other review. Taking these out could free up a few extra pages better suited to more action or suspense which would help this greatly. Page 5 - “Bobby Leigh could offer a helping hand if only she were so inclined” could be just “Bobby Leigh watches” or something similar. Page 20 - “Josh disappears to get water as Bobby Leigh and Laura stare”, you told us he was getting water through dialogue, no need to mention it again in the next line. It’s a small thing, but they all add up. Page 49 - “Josh powers through stomach crunches while listening to his music as he was yesterday”, another example “as he was yesterday” should be cut.

There were parts where your writing was great. Very visual like when Laura is attacked in bed, the sight of Slim’s rotten grin. I think you described Dawg looking at the family on the boat like “pricing a car at a showroom” or something similar, things like that were great to read.

Although I’m far from crazy about the ending, I have a feeling some will like it, some won’t. You can’t please everyone. With a quicker pace in the beginning, more suspense and a few extra pages of action, this could be great. As it is, it is very enjoyable, entertaining and disturbing enough to keep me hooked after it all kicked off half way in. I’d be very interested to read a new draft when you get around to it.

Brian

Hey Brian.

Thanks so much for the feedback.  Really appreciate it.

This is one of those slow build type of films and I remain firm that Slim's re-introduction into the film needs to be where it is.  But the fact you've commented on it tells me that the earlier scenes need work, so I will take a look and see what I can do.

I'm real happy with the comments you made on Laura and Josh since I would never have picked up that they need the re-working you suggested.  Deffinately don't want Laura to come off as annoying.  I really want you to feel for her when she gets bumped off.  And yes, Josh is the voice of reason.  I struggled alot with his story of Paul's suicide.  I'm not a big fan of long monologues like that.  And especiallly so early on.  So I'll get back onto that.

Thank you so much for the compliments on the bad guys.  I worked hard on them, but you're right, Watcher is the weakest link.  I'll definately take a look to see what I can do to improve his character.

Bobby Leigh's line to Chopper about him being a sissy.  The line sets up the ending to the film, but I agree, it could be done better.

Dawg's line about the extension:  Outrageous is what I was going for!  Like the ending, you'll either like it, or not.

The POV scene.  You can make a valid argument that it's not integral to the plot of the film.  But my argument is that it's integral to the journey.  I have no better way of articulating my point than that.  Think of the opening shot of John Carpenter's Halloween.  Is the long steadycam shot integral to the plot of the film?  No.  But it's part of the journey.

So the ending.  Yes, some will like it, and some won't.  And you most definately cannot please everyone.  But it was definately my intension for it to end every bit as abruptly as it did.

Brian, I am very pleased with your response to this script and I want to thank you for taking the time to read it and for posting these comments.

Paul

Hey Paul, just got done with your script.  All in all, a great effort here!

I actually really like the story.  It holds up well and has a number of good twists and turns.  I am not crazy about the ending, or even the entire finale, as I think it delves into very crowded territory, that we’ve seen so many times before.

Biggest problem is with your writing…or over writing.  First of all, I can see that you really cleaned this up from the early draft I read awhile back. You cleaned up your slugs greatly, and took out a lot of that passive writing.  There are still a few too many examples of passive writing that just doesn’t need to be here, but overall, nicely done.

The problem, however, comes in the form of unfilmables and mostly, what I call asides.  You’ve got loads and loads of them in here, and for me, they’re very irritating, and really take me out of what’s taking place on the page.  I’d say you’ve got numerous extra pages with nothing but asides. Take these out and everything will flow so much better.  I realize there are those who will disagree with this, but in my book, there’s just no reason at all for them in a spec script.

I liked all of your characters and thought your dialogue was pretty good for the most part.  There are definitely times when there is too much talking going on, but that’s a matter of opinion.  Your antags are well done and very menacing.  I’d say they border on being a bit too evil, but in these types of flicks, they work well, and I’d say you nailed them pretty well.

Again, story-wise, I liked it and wanted to read more.  I agree that your action scenes need some work in places.  You have a tendency to change your tense in your action scenes and it takes away from the intense stuff going on.  My biggest problem is that none of our protags put up any fight (well, other than Bobby Leigh/Robin).  I understand what you’re after here, and you know my script is much the same in these terms, but here, when the invaders board the Robin, everyone knew they were in trouble, yet they stood around and did nothing, which doesn’t seem right.  Sure, 1 could go quickly and without a fight, but after that, everyone should be fighting for their lives.

Another issue I had is with Dawg and the boys just leaving Bobby alone on the Robin, with keys and the complete ability to do whatever she wanted…like escape.  It doesn’t make sense to me or ring true.  I’d rework that part, if I were you.

OK, I took detailed notes as I read, so they should provide a lot of helpful info for you.  Overall, as I said up front, I like this and think you’ve done a good job.  For what it is, it stands above the dredge that continually keeps getting made.

Congrats on that for sure!  Keep at it, bud!

Page 1 – “…and stood inside of a pair of worn out old boots.” – doesn’t make sense.  Reword this part of the sentence, or just drop it completely, as its not necessary.

“…then bolts!” – I am against using exclamation points and the like in action prose.  I know you’re merely trying to show the action, but for me, it detracts from the read.

“Slim in the doorway looks inside.” – awkwardly phrased.

Page 2 – I’d watch your use of “he sees”, or “he hears” kind of stuff.  I feel they are wasted words that only take up space.

Not sure why you’re using a “FADE TO BLACK” here, and then describing the teeth  brushing sounds.  I think I commented on this to you before, over E-Mail.

Page 3 – Again, an awful lot of lines about teeth being brushed, etc. and then another FADE TO BLACK, which I just don’t understand.

I’m also confused by the inclusion of the SUPER here.  Is this a different time than everything we’ve seen so far, or the same time?  Why insert the SUPER here?  Am I missing something?

“Laura calls out to Bobby Leigh:” – this is a wasted line…no reason for it.

Page 4 – “She sees that something bothers him.” – unnecessary aside.

I’m against underlining words for emphasis.

Page 5 – “Anxious Laura forces a smile. She's doing her utmost to appear enthusiastic while Bobby Leigh continues to portray the opposite.” – I’m against using adjectives in front of a characters name like this.  Just no need for it.  Also, the rest of this phrase is completely an aside by you telling us something that most likely will not be able to transfer to film.  I’d lose all these sorts of phrases.

“Bobby Leigh could offer a helping hand if only she were so inclined.

Instead, Paul drops what he's doing and tends to her aid.” – Again, this is completely an aside that we as readers don’t want to read.  It does nothing for the story and cannot be filmed.  Lose all these!

“…and Paul calls after her” – another example of a phrase that has no reason to be here.  You don’t need these kind of things.  This isn’t a novel.

Page 6 – “She's hurt by those words, Paul knows it and stops what he's doing regretting having said them.” – again, another great example of an unnecessary phrase.  OK, I’m going to try and stop listing all these, cause there appears to be a lot of them.  Be on the look out for them though, as they really bog the read down and take up space that you could use so much more productively.

Page 7 – Watch out for sentences and phrases that describe extremely mundane things.  I’d avoid all of these all the time.  Things like opening a door, closing a door, turning water on or off, etc.   I’ve noticed an abundance of lines that don’t need to be here and it’s slowing down the read.  I’ve read some prior reviews saying how this is slow at first.  Nothing wrong with being slow, but no reason to make it slower by adding so many lines that go nowhere.

Page 8 – “She senses Josh sat beside her in Laura's recliner but doesn't acknowledge his presence.” – Don’t ever include things like this in your script.  How are we going to see that she senses anything?  Unfilmable and a waste.  Also, the use of “sat” is incorrect.

Page 9 – a pet peeve of mine is over use of wrylies.  Lots of people do not agree with me on this subject, but I want to say you’re using too many of them IMO, and many are totally not necessary.

Page 11 – “stood” used incorrectly.

“Laura now offers the plate to Bobby Leigh who's head is still spinning from her talk with Josh.” – I know I said I’d try not to keep listing these, but I have to here.  This line is a perfect example of a wasted line.  The next 3 lines are also unnecessary.  So, basically, you’ve used 7 lines to say that Laura offers Bobby a sandwich and she accepts it.   See what I mean?  Personally, I have no problem with what has transpired up until now, but your writing is making it seem much longer and slower than it should be.  We’re on page 11 now, but in all honesty, I think without taking out a single plot point, action, or even line of dialogue, you should be on page 6 or 7.  JMPO.

Page 13 – I’d intro the boat as “Robin” much earlier…like when we first get a glimpse of her.

5 line passage that could easily be reduced to 4.  Whenever you have a 5 line passage, look at it in detail and chop it down to 4.

Page 15, 16 – This is going on far too long with the back and forths about the food, etc.  Again, nothing wrong with what’s going on, but you’re taking too long with it and you’re being way too descriptive and writing too many asides and unfilmables.  It’s really bogging down the read.

Page 16 – “They turn to find Paul stood beside them…” – incorrect use of “stood”.

Page 18 – We know it’s Slim in the dingy…just come right out and say it up front.

Way too many exclamation points here.  I only use them in dialogue and only rarely when someone is screaming.

“assess” – incorrect tense.

Continued...

Page 19 – I’d recommend cutting most of this page.  Just cut to where Slim is laid down onboard.  No need for all this.

Page 20 – “He's gotta have come from somewhere.” – I know this is dialogue and because of that, you can have your characters say anything, whether or not it’s grammatically correct, but this sounds really odd even for someone speaking.

Page 22 – “He reaches out for Slim's arm and he whirls around at the touch.” – I don’t understand this line.

Page 23 – I don’t think Paul would be so trusting, and say again and again, “he won’t do us any harm”.  Just what occurred to me as I read this part.

Page 24 – Out of curiosity, where are they located, based on the numbers given?

Page 26 – “Paul turns reassuringly the frightened stranger.” – awkwardly phrased.

Page 31 – “Laura is sat…” incorrectly used again.  Should read, “Laura sits…”

No reason at all for this scene that starts at the bottom of the page.  Get rid of it!

Page 32, 33 – I like the interaction and dialogue here between Paul and Laura.  Well done!

Page 35 – some passive sentences here.  I’ve noticed some throughout but you’ve really done a great job cleaning them up.  Nice job!

Page 38 – I doubt Laura would call out, “AARRGGHH!”.   I’d suggest a SCREAM from the bedroom, or simply, “PAUL!  Help!”

Page 39 – “  Paul moves to take a steps toward Laura –“ – awkwardly phrased.  Steps should be singular, but I’d rewrite the entire line.

Page 42 – “The other exchange questioning glances and then follow him out.” – should be “others”.

“His family turn to leave –“ – should be “turns”.

Page 43 – “Paul nods is agreement.” – should be “in” or “his”.

Page 44 – “sat” used incorrectly again.  Is this a foreign thing?

Not sure why you’ve gone for a FADE TO BLACK here.  Are you implying that it remains black onscreen?  Is that why you use V.O.’s?  I’m confused.

Page 45 – Now I’m really confused. New scene heading is “MORNING”, meaning a lot of time has passed, but it seems like it’s a continuous scene with Slim’s escape.  Something is wrong here.

“stood” incorrectly used again near the bottom of the page.

Page 48 – This is a time when you actually can use camera directions to your benefit.  I just think you could rephrase this passage so it reads a bit better.  It is a good visual!

Page 49 – “Josh powers through stomach crunches while listening to his music as he was yesterday.” – unnecessary aside here again.  Same phrasing as earlier, also.

Page 51 – “ans” – should be “as”.

“He will never speak.” – unnecessary aside.  Get rid of ‘em!

I don’t think it would be so easy to tie the boats together, if Paul didn’t want them to…which he wouldn’t.  Only time so far where I rolled my eyes and thought to myself that I didn’t buy it at all.  I’d rethink this part.

Page 53 – “CLUNK!! Paul collapses to the floor cradling his skull after being struck with the butt of a machete that Watcher had concealed under his trench coat.” – I don’t like this action line at all.  You want your action lines to display action.  This doesn’t at all, as the way it’s worded, we don’t even see the action take place.  I’d recommend rewriting this phrase and “showing”: the action.

Although I understand what you’re going for with Josh’s demise, I think it could be written better…again, showing more action.  Also, I don’t buy that Josh nor Paul would put up any fight here, knowing full well that something is terribly wrong.  JMO.

Page 54 – “Bobby Leigh recognizes the relentless screams to be Laura's but she is still yet to be seen as Watcher is knelt before her and right in her face blocking her view of the rest of the room.” – awkwardly worded and phrased.  This shouldn’t all be 1 sentence.  I’d seriously suggest rewording it and even reworking it.

Page 57 – “hoar” should be “whore”.

Page 58 – “He's really looking closely at her now in a way that is driving Paul to become angered by it but altogether powerless to do anything about it.” – here’s another one of those asides that totally take us out of the horror taking place.  There’ve been a few more in the last couple pages also, and they’re totally uncalled for.

Page 61 – “ANOTHER ANGLE - and suddenly, the room fills with the most incredible screams of agony you've ever heard! A sound so extreme that both Paul and Bobby Leigh fall silent under its majesty.” – Dude, you’ve got such a powerful scene taking place here, and then you throw this garbage in?   I don’t want to say that it ruins the scene, but it completely takes us out of it.  Absolutely no reason for this kind of stuff. Get rid of it!!!

Page 64 – “stood” incorrectly used again.

Not sure what is happening her with this new boat coming up.  On page 65, I’m still confused by what is taking place.  I think you cold write this better so it’s clearer, or maybe it’s not supposed to be clear…I don’t know.

Page 66 – At the bottom of the page, you did not do a good job of writing what it taking place, with the 2 boats.  I think you need to make this much clearer how Bobby jumps onto the new boat so easily.

Page 68-70 – OK< I understand what you’re doing here and why you’re doing it, but let’s stop for a quick reality check.  Bobby just saw all these dead kids and the boat is sinking, why would she for the life of her, decide to stop, figure out how to run some projector and watch the footage for 3 minutes?  I don’t buy it.  I understand where yuou’re going here, but I personally don’t like it.

Page 69 – “passed” should be “past”.

Page 70 – Don’t really like the camera direction on display here, but I’ll get over it.  It’s just not a time where you need to do that, IMO.

Page 71 – I don’t like using any “shots’ in a slug.  I’d do it in the action line, but that’s JMO.  Love the FADE TO WHITE, BTW!!

Way too much camera direction here, IMO.  I see what you’re after and like it, but a spec script just doesn’t need all this.

Also confused now that you are referring to Bobby as Robin.  I understand, but this is going to be completely lost onscreen, if you know what I mean.  It will also be confusing for an actual shoot, as you have anew character now but it’s actually still the same Bobby.

Page 73 – “Unfortunately for Chopper however, Robin has no time for love, she's all business.” – you know the routine!  Completely unnecessary lines here.

Page 75 – you should name this “elderly woman”.  Just call her “Ma” or whatever.

Page 78 – You’re losing me here with this “earlier scene” of The Prowler’s POV.  How would we know this scene is earlier watching it onscreen?  I’m confused.  No description given of this Prowler dude, although you say that we see him.  If he’s onscreen, you need to let us in on what we see.

OK, this really feels out of place here.  Are you saying that literally this entire scene is a POV shot from this Prowler, who is obviously Bobby/Robin?   If so, I really don’t think it works.  I don’t see why it’s at all necessary either.  It’s confusing, and feels so completely out of place with the tone you’ve set.

Also, I don’t like the reveal of the TCM/Wrong Turn/1,000 other backwoods, cannibal-like house and kin.

I do like how you leave the ship and ocean and find land, and the old, dilapidated Fairgrounds, but this is taking it a bit too far, IMO.  It’s well traveled ground, and I don’t think you need to tred there.

Page 81 – You’ve totally changed your writing style.  “We find”, “We saw”, and so many aisdes now.  Just way, way too much!

Page 90 – “Robin sits a facing wearing the welders hat and holding the blowtorch just as she was before he broke free.” – I don’t understand this…sits a facing…?????

Like others, I don’t like the sudden ending.  Also, don’t like how Chopper comes to the rescue just in the nick of time.  And what happened to good old Leo?

Hey Dreamscale.

It's 2:30 in the morning here, just read your intro to your response and I wanted to quickly thank you before I read the rest which will probably be tomorrow.  A very detailed response from you- expected nothing less!

Thanks so much for this.  I'm sure eerything you've pointed out will be a huge help to me.

I 'll come back to you when I've all the way through.

Cheers.

Paul

PART I

Hi Jeff,

Apologies once again for the late reply.  First off, I would like to thank you once more for taking the time to read this.  I also thank you for our previous communication about the unfinished earlier draft I sent you privately a while back.  The feedback I had from you back then I greatly apreciated, and I greatly value the feedback you gave for this current version.

Some of the comments you have made on this version mirror the comments you gave on the older version i.e. you still see some of the problems now that you saw then.  Now there are reasons why adjustments weren't made from the last version to this one and I am going to try and explain those reasons.  Other comments however, from yourself and others have pushed me to make the necesarry adjustmenst, and I'll talk a bit about those as well.

So, to start, I'm just going to go through yoiur analysis and respond accordingly.

You open with a compliment on my first effort.  Thanks, mate.  From the moment of its conception, this script has taken over two years to get to this point.  And it still needs work... And that's even with working on it fairly constantly... with no real gaps or breaks i.e. weeks or months.  The reason it's taken so long is because I have used this script as a tool to teach myself how to write a screenplay.  See, like many first time writers on here, I am unschooled in the craft.  And like many, everything I've learned, I've had to teach myself.  On top of that, I'm something of a slow leaner.....  Actually, that's not entirely true... more of a perfectionist.  And the script I've submitted to this board is at not nearly the standard of writing that I want to be at.  So 'why submit a script that's not at it's best possible standard?'  The answer is simple: because that would take forever.  Think about it; you could spend years and years on a script... making it better than what it is... perfecting it.  But at the end of the day, as they say: a producer ain't gonna buy your writing; he'll buy your story.  So at some point you have to say to yourself; 'okay, forget the writing; what about the story?'  And at this point in time, storywise, with this script, I'm happy.  And that's why it's up here for you all to read.  The writing might not be great... but it'll pass... for the most part... at least it will do when I'm done with this next draft!

What I wanna do now is move away from this script and onto something else.  I can't dwell on 'Bobby Leigh...'; I've other stories to tell.  No matter how much I work on it, it will always read like a first script by a first time writer... and so what?  I know I've learnt... something writing this script, so when I write the next one, it'll be better... hopefully.  We've all read stories on this board about people taking crash-courses in writing and after a week thinking they can better Shakespear.  Bull cr**.  No matter how good we are... or how good we think we are... we can always learn something new to help us be better writers.

But I digress.  And that was only a response to your first sentence.  In the next you say how you like the story.  Thanks again.  I've done my job.  Yes, you don't like the ending.  But then neither do most who've responded.  I'll come back to the ending.  But genrally speaking, my feeling is; I like the ending, so there's gotta be others out there that'll like it too.

CONTINUED...

PART II

Now onto the good stuff.  The comment about overwriting.  I see you've noticed this draft has been considerably cleaned up.  It has.  That was one of the things I worked the hardest on like you wouldn't belive.  Had to get rid of all that God-awful flowery language.  There are a couple of instances where that is still present, but not to the extent it was before.  Man, you should take a look at the VERY first draft which I hammered out in two weeks.  Boy oh boy.

And yes, I cleaned up the sluglines too.  All going off the comments you left from that earlier version.  Definitive evidence of your imparting of wisdom upon me, Sir.

Now onto what seems to me from what I've learned from various sources, the most flimsiest rule of screenwriting.  Passive and active verbiage.  Writing 101:  everything that happens in a screenplay happens NOW.  So the logical rule is always to write in the ACTIVE voice, right?  WRONG.  A bold statement, I know, and unfortunately I'm not going to be able to explain myself in any sort of way that will satisfy.  Something about all these words ending in 'ing' are frowned upon because they bog down the read.  Here's a very poor example to try and illustrate what I mean.  Say I wanted to start a new scene where ROGER, let's say, is walking down the street.  When the scene starts, he's already walking, right.  So I would write: Roger is walking down the street.  Now I know many who have a much better understanding of writng than I do would say: 'No, no... it should be -- Roger 'walks' down the street'.  Sure, it's less wordy and there's no 'ing' in there, but to me, it gives the feeling that Roger STARTS the action (walking in this case) in scene... on screen... whatever.  As apposed to 'walking' describes something that's already happening.  p*ss poor example, I know.  But I've come across numerous instances in professional screenplays, discussions etc, highlighting holes in this logic of the rule, certain phrases... use of language that would be frowned upon, but to me, these things often work and don't bog down a read in anyway whatsoever.

Again, I'm rambling.  I apologise.  Moving on.

Your comment about what you call 'asides' would fall into the previous argument.  I want to state, however, I totally understand what you're saying about unfilmables.  But again; a pretty flimsey ruling system.  It seems these asides and unfimables describe something that's happening on screen but is not construed as an action -- there's nothing PHYSICALLY happening.  So by the logic of the rule, they shouldn't be in the script.  Again, I disagree.  I'll try and use the example you've highligted in my script.

Pg 4:  "She sees that something bothers him".  Nothing physically happening here.  There's not really an action to speak of that could be captured on film.  And yet we all know what the phrase means... what it's describing.  Therefor, I saw it as being important enough for that particular point in the film to be present in the script.  I'm sure a good actress would know exactly what to do at that moment, going off what's in the script, as apposed to it not being there at all.

I think what it comes down to is a matter of taste, and you've stated as much so I think we can meet in some common ground on that.

Thanks again for the compliments on character and dialogue.  I do disagree there's too much.  One of the other things I worked hard on was chopping it all down.  Josh gives a fairly long monologue near the beginning but that speech is definately important to the story.  Sure, I could of done a flashback or used someother kind of  storytelling mechanic, but this was a case where I thought it would be more effective to 'tell' not 'show'.  Another example of those flimsey screenwriting rules.

One thing I did find comically odd is when you said "Your antags are well done and very menacing.  I’d say they border on being a bit too evil".  I gotta be honest, I was going for AS EVIL AS POSSIBLE.  Are we to believe that in the creation of Michael Myers they said 'we gotta pull it back a little; he's just too evil?'  It makes me wonder if this mode of thought has influenced the storytelling in 'Fade to White'.  (SPOILER) At the end when we realize that Xavier is Satan.  He kills Tobias because one of his rules is he doesn't kill children.  Why?  Did you see what he did to that poor little girl in 'The Exorcist'?  Techinally, that was not the Devil, but demon Pazuzu, I know, but still, c'mon, man.  I know others have made similar comments as well.  There's probably an explanation for it.  Probably something major I missed in the story.

The comments regarding characters not putting up a fight I think is fair... to an extent.  But you have to remember; this film takes place in the seventies, and although I wasn't alive back then I know that peoples attitude in the face of danger was alot different back then... more... relaxed.  An example I could give is the moment in 'Deliverance'.  The moments with John Voight and the hillbillies when Ned Beaty is about to be raped.  They knew that situation was only gonna go from bad to worse, but did they put up any fight?  No.  But not just because it's the seventies and all that cr** I just said, but for many reasons.  The biggest that comes to mind is that the characters of Voight and Beaty are 'civilized', and were trying to deal with the situation in a civilzed manor.  But the hillbillies; they ain't civilzed.  They come; they take what they want; that's all.  And that's what I was trying to capture in 'Bobby Leigh...'.  'Deliverance' was something of an inspiration for 'Bobby Leigh...'  as I've always thought of the antags in that as the 'hillbillies of the sea'

The issue about the fishermen leaving Bobby Leigh alone to escape.  Perfectly valid comment.  And in a way, I played it to that.  A reminder that we're in a horror movie, and here's the cliche to prove it.  She has to get away somehow in X amount of time so the second half of the film can begin.  And that was the most efficient way I could devise.

CONTINUED...

PART III

Right.  We're through with the initial introduction.  Now onto the notes.  I'm going to try and skim over these.  I'll copy/paste your comments and insert my own response.

"Page 1 – “…and stood inside of a pair of worn out old boots.” – doesn’t make sense.  Reword this part of the sentence, or just drop it completely, as its not necessary."

Right on the money.  That's been altered in the second draft I'm working on.  Thanks for pointing it out.  cr** wording.

"“…then bolts!” – I am against using exclamation points and the like in action prose.  I know you’re merely trying to show the action, but for me, it detracts from the read."

Half of the exclamation points are gone now; there were too many.

"“Slim in the doorway looks inside.” – awkwardly phrased."

Already altered.

"Page 2 – I’d watch your use of “he sees”, or “he hears” kind of stuff.  I feel they are wasted words that only take up space."

Understand your comment but disagree; some are needed.  However, I do agree there are some of those in places where they don't need to be.

"Not sure why you’re using a “FADE TO BLACK” here, and then describing the teeth  brushing sounds.  I think I commented on this to you before, over E-Mail."

This is the first piece of evidence that I trying to direct the film here, which is a big no, no.  Tough.  There's reasoning behind it -- stylistic reasons, not to mention the fact  that the FADE TO BLACK. paves the way for the 'SUPER:' title card, and I've think I've more than justified my reason for setting this film in the seventies.  If what's been said already isn't enough, then here's a good a reason as any:  all the best movies IMO came out of the seventies, especially horror films.  It seemed like a natural choice to set this particular horror in the seventies too.

This little moment of the brushing of teeth and transistions has been re-worked so it's not as distracting.

"I’m also confused by the inclusion of the SUPER here.  Is this a different time than everything we’ve seen so far, or the same time?  Why insert the SUPER here?  Am I missing something?"

Regarding this point, I can only conclude that you assume the first three pages take place in the present day, so the obvious question I put forth to you is:  why do you naturally assume it's present day?  Period dramas must be an interseting watch for you.

"“Laura calls out to Bobby Leigh:” – this is a wasted line…no reason for it."

Agreed.  It's gone.

"Page 4 – “She sees that something bothers him.” – unnecessary aside."

Already touched upon.

"I’m against underlining words for emphasis."

I'm not.

"Page 5 – “Anxious Laura forces a smile. She's doing her utmost to appear enthusiastic while Bobby Leigh continues to portray the opposite.” – I’m against using adjectives in front of a characters name like this.  Just no need for it.  Also, the rest of this phrase is completely an aside by you telling us something that most likely will not be able to transfer to film.  I’d lose all these sorts of phrases."

This has undergone treatment.  However, 'asides' may still be present, but not to the same extent.  And as I've argued; asides CAN transfere to film.  We see them all the time.

"“Bobby Leigh could offer a helping hand if only she were so inclined.

Instead, Paul drops what he's doing and tends to her aid.” – Again, this is completely an aside that we as readers don’t want to read.  It does nothing for the story and cannot be filmed.  Lose all these!"

"It does nothing for the story and cannot be filmed."

'Paul drops what he's doing and tends to her aid' isn't an aside; it's an action and totally serves the story and more important the characters, so of course it can be filmed.

I don't understand your thought process here about what can and can't be filmed.  It speaks something of little imagination.

"“…and Paul calls after her” – another example of a phrase that has no reason to be here.  You don’t need these kind of things.  This isn’t a novel."

This line is gone.

"Page 6 – “She's hurt by those words, Paul knows it and stops what he's doing regretting having said them.” – again, another great example of an unnecessary phrase.  OK, I’m going to try and stop listing all these, cause there appears to be a lot of them.  Be on the look out for them though, as they really bog the read down and take up space that you could use so much more productively."

This has recieved treatment but is still present in some form.  Again, I feel what's written does serve the story, it's just my current skill level as a writer isn't allowing me to pull it off successfully yet.  I think maybe this is a factor you maybe failing to identify resulting in these knee-jerk reaction comments, which, to a certain extent I understand and appreciate.  You seem to come from a very technically and knowledgable background.  But it seems you superior knowledge of writing is clouding your vision and overall enjoyment of the story, which, as you've stated, you liked.  At the end of the day, the story has reached you regardless of the writing.  And if it can reach you, it can reach others.

"Page 7 – Watch out for sentences and phrases that describe extremely mundane things.  I’d avoid all of these all the time.  Things like opening a door, closing a door, turning water on or off, etc.   I’ve noticed an abundance of lines that don’t need to be here and it’s slowing down the read.  I’ve read some prior reviews saying how this is slow at first.  Nothing wrong with being slow, but no reason to make it slower by adding so many lines that go nowhere."

Mundane things captured on film make up some of the best moments of a film.  Look at your film 'Wolf Creek'; part of the inspiration for 'Fade to White'.  That film is layered with incredibly mundane things, the collection of which, build up a narrative, a very suspensful narrative.  Suspense is what you're going for, is it not?  Same thing here.

I presonally don't think this is a slow read at all.  In fact, quite the opposite.  And it's only 90 pages!

"Page 8 – “She senses Josh sat beside her in Laura's recliner but doesn't acknowledge his presence.” – Don’t ever include things like this in your script.  How are we going to see that she senses anything?  Unfilmable and a waste.  Also, the use of “sat” is incorrect."

Nothing 'unfilmable' here at all.  'How are we going to see she senses anything?'  Again, you seem to be displaying a lack of imagination for something that is quite easily done on film.  Done often.  And done well.  Take 'The Sixth Sense'; that film is all about character's 'sensing something'.  The woman at the beginning, comes down into the basement , takes a bottle of wine and as she leaves, senses something.  It's all right there for you up on screen.  And I'm sure much of it would have been in the script otherwise it would've only been 10 pages long.  Again, not understanding your argument of unfilmables.  I understand the concept but not in the places in which the arguments are raised.  Imagine you were an actor in acting class and your teacher says 'stand up and act me a scene where you sense the arrival of someone behind you.'  What would you say,  that it cannot be done?  Then why even bother to invent such a word or concept?  I believe that what you call 'asides' are a perfectly acceptable and useful tool to convey one small, intimate, but altogether necesarry moment of a story.

CONTINUED...

PART IV

Okay, you're saying the same thing in the next comments now, so I'll have to stop.  I feel I've responded as best I can on this matter.

"Page 13 – I’d intro the boat as “Robin” much earlier…like when we first get a glimpse of her."

Disagree.  Intro to the Robin is right where it needs to be.  Our first glimpse is when Slim glimpses it from the life raft.  If we introduce it there, it gives away too much too soon.

"Page 15, 16 – This is going on far too long with the back and forths about the food, etc.  Again, nothing wrong with what’s going on, but you’re taking too long with it and you’re being way too descriptive and writing too many asides and unfilmables.  It’s really bogging down the read."

This has been completely cut.  Completely agree with your comments... exept about the asides/unfilmables.

"Way too many exclamation points here.  I only use them in dialogue and only rarely when someone is screaming."

Spot on.  They've been cut back.

"Page 24 – Out of curiosity, where are they located, based on the numbers given?"

You got me.  I have no idea.  Doesn't matter.  Has no baring on the story.

"Page 31 – “Laura is sat…” incorrectly used again.  Should read, “Laura sits…”"

Passive verbiage again.  We both agree the phrase is wrong.  But I'm thinking I'm going to change it to 'is sitting', since she's already sitting when we come to her.  To me, 'sits' implies she goes from standing to sitting ON CAMERA.

"No reason at all for this scene that starts at the bottom of the page.  Get rid of it!"

No!  Here's my reason: helps instil dread in the audience.

... Oh, yes it does.

"Page 32, 33 – I like the interaction and dialogue here between Paul and Laura.  Well done!

Page 35 – some passive sentences here.  I’ve noticed some throughout but you’ve really done a great job cleaning them up.  Nice job!"

Cheers, mate!

"Page 38 – I doubt Laura would call out, “AARRGGHH!”.   I’d suggest a SCREAM from the bedroom, or simply, “PAUL!  Help!”"

I'm debating this.  But I might just stick with what I've got.  Seems t give a more visceral vibe.

"Not sure why you’ve gone for a FADE TO BLACK here.  Are you implying that it remains black onscreen?  Is that why you use V.O.’s?  I’m confused."

Don't be confused -- you're spot on.  More evidence of me DIRECTING my script.  I understand the reasing behind this rule, but believe it's perfectly acceptable in the sparing measure it's used in this script.

Okay, I really have to wrap this up now.  I know I said I'd talk more about the ending and I wanted to talk more about the long POV shot.  As I've said in previous responses, I think the POV shot is perfectly justifiable and is integral to the journey of the film.  It's also me paying homage to the stalker/slasher genre:  'Halloween' and the lesser know 'Black Christmas'.  In that scene, Bobby Leigh/Robin IS Michael Myers, Jason's mom etc.  Ask yourself, are the long POV shots in those films integral to the story and plot?  No, but they're integral to the journey of the film.  That's the quality they represent.

As for the ending; as you've stated; you either love it or hate it.  People hated the abrupt, ambiguous ending to 'The Thing'.  And today, that film is hailed as a classic.  Could you really see that film ending any other way?  I couldn't.  But more importantly, I wouldn't want to.

Thank you once again for reading this and I apologies if any parts of my response has come off as sounding insidious, but I have to stand up for my work.  And I've tried to do it in a way that's both fair and unbias.

Cheers.

Paul

Hey Paul, that’s one Hell of a response!  Damn…over 20,000 words/spaces!  Unreal.  You’re a rambler, buddy!  Just wanted to respond to a few things you said.

You noticed that a number of things I brought up here, were exactly what I brought up the first time.  At least I’m consistent, and that’s actually a very good thing.  You know, Paul, everything you read in here is someone’s personal opinion.  There’re obviously some hard and fast rules that need to be understood and followed, but most of the stuff is a matter of taste…you know?  Some people like curry, others hate it. Some love sushi, others would rather puke.  So, understand that everything I brought up was simply based on my feelings, my preferences, and my tastes.  You are free to write however and whatever you want to.  You have a vision with this and that’s awesome.  You feel so strongly about it that you feel you have to stand up for it and defend it…that’s a very strong example of your passion for this project, and I totally appreciate that.

An acquaintance (who is actually an entertainment lawyer and a writer) once told me that a writing project never really ends…you can continue to make changes for an eternity unless 1 of 2 things happen.  Someone buys it and you make some coin, or you tell yourself that it’s as good as it’s going to get, and you move on to the next project.

At this point, you’re the boss.  You can change whatever you want about this script as easily as you can keep whatever you want.  It’s totally up to you.  Like you said, some may not like the ending, some may love it.  The feedback you receive can give you some idea of what works and what doesn’t, but at this point, it’s up to you to pick and choose.

Paul, you’re cracking me up with your passive verbiage example…here’s why.  A few years ago, I thought exactly the same way.  I even used certain examples in my head like sit/sitting, walk/walking, run/running, and fall/falling.  In my mind I was quite sure that these were definitely examples of when the passive verb was actually the correct choice to make.  Same deal about a scene starting and the character already performing the action, as apposed to “starting the action” (he runs, he sits, etc.).  And to this day, I still think about certain examples that definitely work, and I do from time to time, use passive verbiage…BUT…I know that it is better not to.  It is stronger writing to write active prose.  Nothing wrong with a little here, a little there.  Just don’t do it too much, don’t make it stand out, and try not to do it often in the beginning of your scripts.  Once you’ve got someone hooked, these types of things won’t jump off the page.

An aside is an unfilmable.  But it’s actually just a comment that the writer makes…tells us…and has nothing to do at all with what is happening onscreen.  The unfilmable you are referencing is a case of the writer telling us something that a character feels, thinks, etc.  The unfilmable idea really just means that there is a better way of “showing” the onscreen actions than just telling us, like we’d get in a novel.  The point of the example is this…yes, I understand what you’re saying and what you’re going after, but this is a screenplay and based on that, it’s a rough blue print for everything that is going to be happening onscreen with your actors.  This is done 2 ways, and 2 ways only…through a character’s action or through a character’s dialogue.  The longer you write and the more scripts you read, you will discover that there are definitely ways to write “unfilmables” into your scripts, so that they’re not unfilmable.  So in your example here, the question that anyone and everyone would ask is this…what is happening onscreen with her character that relates to this line?  Your answer involves an assumption of what “a good actress” would do, but doesn’t say what that would be.  You don’t know that you will have a good actress, and you don’t have a visual of what is taking place onscreen…that’s why this line falls under the “unfilmable” category.

Let’s look at a better example…

“Bobby Leigh could offer a helping hand if only she were so inclined.  Instead, Paul drops what he's doing and tends to her aid.”

I think you’re missing my point about this one.  Let’s break it down.  The first sentence is the problem here.  It’s totally an aside and it’s completely unfilmable.  What do we see onscreen here?  We see this…Paul drops what he’s doing and tends to her aid.  That’s it.  Sure we see that Bobby doesn’t help in any way, and sure, we may realize that Bobby could have helped.  But you don’t want or need to write what someone doesn’t do.  There is absolutely no reason for it.  That’s why the first line is an aside, coming from the writer, telling the reader something that will not show up onscreen.

Bottom line is this; many writers use asides…even pros.  But it’s a bad habit to get into when you’re first learning the ropes.  Nothing wrong with an aside here and there, but again, don’t get caught up in doing it on a regular basis, because it simply takes up space and lines, adds to the amount of time it takes to read, and when done poorly, takes the reader out of the action taking place.

Too much or not enough dialogue is totally personal taste and opinion.   It’s your baby, so it’s your choice.  Many people say that every dialogue exchange needs to advance the story, etc. I don’t agree with this at all.  I was just saying that I thought there were times when the dialogue wasn’t doing anything for your script and was going on too long.

My comment about your antags bordering on being too evil just meant that I thought they were a bit over the top, when they were torturing our protags on the Robin.  I did like them for sure…again, I just thought it was a bit much, and I didn’t see why they would do this for no reason.

OK, the Deliverance example needs to be discussed.  I don’t see the similarities here.  It’s a completely different situation.  The Deliverance boys were out of their element…they were on the Hillbilly’s turf completely.  In your script, Paul lets the pirates on their boat, where his daughter, son, and pregnant soon to be fiancé are all in a completely vulnerable position.  Ned and Jon had backup in Burt.  And although Ned was raped, the Hillbilly’s didn’t physically “harm” either one.  The Hillbilly’s also had a rifle trained on them.  Your pirates, at first, did not have weaponry trained on them.

Anyway, all I was saying about this was that I wished your characters had put up some kind of fight, because first, I think they would in real life. And second, I think it would really add to the scene’s intensity.  That’s all I meant.
My comment about placing the SUPER after the first 3 pages regards why you wouldn’t come out and tell us immediately when the movie is taking place.  It’s confusing…why wait 3 pages?  I just don’t understand.

I still don’t understand why you are so adamant about not introing the Robin immediately?  What is it giving away?  It’s merely the name of the boat.

OK, so I asked where this is all taking place, based on the coordinates you gave.  Your response – “You got me.  I have no idea.  Doesn't matter.  Has no bearing on the story.”

I disagree with this for a few reasons.  First of all, you, the writer and creator of this, needs to know where this is taking place.  It’s a simple detail that will definitely come up…especially if you’re using BS coordinates.  It does have bearing on the story…especially when they go to that dilapidated fairground.  Is it US waters and soil?  Is it the Caribbean?  We need to know…you need to know.  All these boats are disappearing…3 in 1 day!  Someone has to be concerned…like the coastguard?  For instance, I had a “The Island” (a pretty cool 80’s flick, taken from an awesome Peter Benchley novel) vibe when I was reading this.  The details in that story were very clear, so it had a sense of realism going for it.  I think you need to think about this, and I’d even give some reference to where they are through early dialogue…and I’d definitely do a little research on the coordinate issue.

Keep in mind that when you write dialogue, it will be stated exactly as it’s written.  I’m referring to the “AARRGGHH!”  I highly doubt literally anyone, other than a pirate, would say this.

As I said a few times, Paul, I like your script.  And I’m not saying I like it as a first script by a first time writer.  I like it period, and I’m only trying to help you make it even better.

Good luck with this.

Man, do I feel bad about my bitchy response!  Mark of an ameture I guess, to feel the need to defend a work the way I did.  Sorry, mate.

You know, you make a good point there... with... everything you've just said.  Very humble of you not to snap back as I probably would have!  I have alot of growing to do, don't I?

As more and more problems are becoming evident to me about this script from what you've said, I really have to hand it to you for being so kind to it.  Don't wanna sound like an A**-kiss, but cheers mate.  Sincerely(spelling?).

However, the problem I face is; it's been two years on the same story.  I desperately want to move onto new projects.  And I've already started with a new script.  I'd love to do another pass on 'Bobby Leigh...', but it's bringing myself to doing it, knowing how much work is still left to do.  Know what I mean?  The script I'm working on is so much lighter in terms of subject matter so it shouldn't be too much of a challenge to write.  And shouldn't take half the time 'Bobby' did.  So maybe when I'm done with this new one, I'll go back t 'Bobby Leigh' with a fresh set of eyes and clean it up.

Yes, 'Bobby Leigh' needs alot of work.  I'm convinced of that now.  And I thank you for that.  But as I've said, I'm happy with the story that's on the page.  And for now, that will do.

Cheers, Jeff.