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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Series  ›  Snips Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: May 22nd, 2010, 8:08am Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Snips by Tom Pascal (tommyp) and Gary Rademan (grademan) - Series, Comedy - A young man’s dream of becoming a sculptor of hair is jeopardized when he becomes an apprentice at the Snips hair salon where two rival stylists compete for his attention and the two co-owners are split on how to handle the rivalry as it gets out of hand. 49 pages - pdf, format


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Revision History (3 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Don  -  May 22nd, 2010, 9:43am
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Tommyp
Posted: May 22nd, 2010, 8:47pm Report to Moderator
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Alrighty!

Series. Pilot. Comedy. A hair salon. Lot's of sex jokes. What more could you want?

Gary and I would love some feedback on this, so reads would be appreciated.

Please note, it is a tad long for a sitcom... Usually it would be around 42 pages... so we can cut out all the bad jokes to get it to 42.

Thanks for reading it.


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Grandma Bear
Posted: May 22nd, 2010, 9:07pm Report to Moderator
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Hey guys, started reading this one this morning, but then got busy and now I'm not good to review. If you know what I mean...

What's with all the formatting stuff? I know you guys know proper formatting.

Btw, I'm pretty sure a half hour show is 22 minutes and an hour show is 44 minutes. At least here in the US.


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Tommyp
Posted: May 22nd, 2010, 9:13pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Piaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa *fade out* *echo*

Formatting is correct formatting for sitcoms. We are using the template on Final Draft.

Yep, nearly, a half hour show is 21 minutes and an hour show is 42 minutes.

With sitcoms, it's 2 pages per minute on average... so for a 21 minute show (such as Snips), we will need to have around 42 pages.



You on the usual, beer?


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Grandma Bear
Posted: May 22nd, 2010, 9:19pm Report to Moderator
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Tooooommmyyyyy!

Nah, fuck the beer. I'm sniffing paint repellant and smoking crack! My face is a nice shade of flouresant green...

I read the first few pages and was amazed at the dialogue spacing and all the capitalization. Are you sure that was FD doing that?

For our reality show, we were told by the distributor that 22/half hour and 44/one hour was correct.  


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Tommyp
Posted: May 22nd, 2010, 9:50pm Report to Moderator
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Haha, good work.

I think all the spacing and stuff is right, although we could have messed with a setting by accident and changed it... doubtful though.

Ah okay, well it must be different for different places... or different shows... or something!

Looking forward to your comments if you get around to reading it


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mcornetto
Posted: May 22nd, 2010, 10:26pm Report to Moderator
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This the same version I read?
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Tommyp
Posted: May 22nd, 2010, 10:32pm Report to Moderator
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Very similar, yes, MC.


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rendevous
Posted: May 23rd, 2010, 4:57am Report to Moderator
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All depends how you say it JC. Sorry, SR.

There was a comedy about about a Barber shop in UK few years ago. Many.

They practiced shaving customers by using baloons. They failed. Twas funny. Bang!

Keep it warm.

Fucking hell it's hot here. Like being upside down.

ER


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New Used Car

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The Deuce - OWC - now on STS

Other scripts here
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Trojan
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Hey Tommy and Gary, just gave this one a read. It's late here and I'm a bit tired so I'll try to be as coherent as possible.

I had mixed feelings on this one. There are some funny lines in here but also a number of things that don't work IMO. I think you are using too much innuendo and relying on sex jokes to get your laughs, and as a result it's a bit one-note all the way through. Also the characters are a bit over the top at times and act in a way that is hard for me to buy into, it is just too unbelievable in some instances.

Where is this supposed to be set? At times I couldn't tell if it was America, Britain or Australia. For instance Tania's line about a couple of poofters piping off at the same time sounds to me like something you'd get in East London from a woman on a show like Eastenders, but at other times it seems more American. Don't know if you'd get away with saying poofters on a sitcom anymore either.

The dialogue between Ben and Emily in the backroom felt a bit on the nose. 'Do you remember playing in this room when we were kids?' Why would they all of a sudden be discussing that now, except to provide exposition that their parents owned the store. 'Hey our new apprentice should be here any minute now.' Few lines like this felt a bit wooden to me, like too formal and not how people really talk.

Apprentices are usually very young, so not sure why Tania would assume the guy would be married or widowed. Widowed in particular feels like an odd thing to toss out there. Also apprentices are unlikely to start cutting hair on their first day, they'll more likely be cleaning up hair and doing odd jobs. If they were cutting hair they would have been hired as an actual hairdresser.

Emily has a change in tone in her dialogue several places throughout. She sounds prim and proper in places yet she also says 'don't fuck the new guy'. I'd try to keep the dialogue more in character and not have these variances. Also you're not going to get away with saying 'fuck' in a sitcom. Unless you're going for a slot on cable but this doesn't really have that feel to it.

Ted's first bit of dialogue when he arrives feels very stiff. I know that is kind of his character but it's a bit over the top. 'I must say, this is a lovely, quaint salon.' This is one of those exampes that makes me think it is set in Britain. Couldn't imagine someone saying that though when they turn up for a new job. Then 'Well thank you Ted. I am Emily...' this just sounds incredibly forced and unrealistic. People don't talk like this. It'd be more like 'Well thanks Ted, I'm Emily...'

Tania having sex with customers in the toilets? This is just too over the top IMO. I mean it's just not going to happen and if someone did do that sort of thing, they'd be fired.

More examples of words that should be contracted. 'No I have not' Who says have not instead of haven't?

Some of the jokes are good. Some fall flat. Generally the more believable it is the more likely it is to work. The whole scene with Tania roleplaying as the customer and Ted cutting her hair works well I think. It is more realistic. The part about Ted wanting the latte because he thinks it might make his dick grow bigger doesn't work well IMO. Just too unrealistic and also you wouldn't say that in front of people you just started working with that day. I would say focus on the story and character and let the humor come from that organically, rather than try to force jokes into the situation.

I can't buy the conversation between Tania and Emily about Emily wanting to show some cleavage so the customers notice her. Mainly because she is saying this while cutting a customers hair. Obviously it'd be a pretty awkward thing to discuss in front of your clients. Really doesn't ring true for me I'm afraid.

The scene with Emily talking to herself about the secret. People don't really talk out loud to themselves like this, I think you could come up with a better way to show her deciding what she should do. Ted asking if she wants him to file sexual harrassment charges seemed to come out of left field. Not to mention no boss would want that to have to deal with, so it seemed strange he would ask that.

On page 42, it should be 'won't we BE breaking the rules'

The kissing scene in the salon seems more like a dream sequence than reality. Her getting her boobs wet with shampoo etc. And the boss is basically encouraging this? Can't see it happening. Especially in front of customers. And which results in David fucking up his haircut. Too unlikely.

The end scene in the bar with the pants off and the dancing is weird. Like imagine your first day at a new job and you end up in a bar and get told to take your pants off and dance like a teapot. Would you do it? You'd be like WTF is wrong with these people?! And the bartender telling people to get their pants off in his bar is strange. Just doesn't ring true at all.

Ok so overall this has potential but needs a good rewrite IMO. The two biggest sitcome of the last 20 years have been Seinfeld and Freinds. They had characters who sounded real and were put in situations that you might find yourself in. In short, they were relatable. The characters had their own quirks or whatever but they acted realistically in the situation (except for Kramer perhaps who provided an outlet for more zany humour). My gut feeling is that these people you have created here sound more like caricatures than real people. The flamboyant gay guy. The slut. The innocent dumb kid. The insecure boss. The smart-ass slacker. It could just be that they need more time to develop to see other sides to them, but in future episodes I'd try to concentrate more on giving them well-rounded personalities rather than just on the jokes and innuendo. What can we realte to them over and what will make us care for and emotionally invest in these characters? Jokes are fine, but story and empathy are important too.

Good work though on completing this, I think it would be worth seeing where you can go with it.

Cheers,
Tim.
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stevie
Posted: May 23rd, 2010, 8:38pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Tommy and Gary! I remember you mentioning this was in the works awhile back. I just spotted it then and gave it a read.

I read Tim's comments first and have to agree with him. The first few pages were good, as it drew us in, set up the characters nicely and there were some funny lines. I liked David and Tania's conversation with the first customers!

After that, things sort of became more of the same. I didn't mind the continual sex talk and innuendoes but it did get a bit overdone eventually. Like Tim, I wasn't sure where the setting was: in the US I guess, but i think 'poofter' would be obsolete there; faggot would be the gay term of choice.

Eventually the cast did become caricatures. I reckon you need at least two of them to be 'different'. Whether having someone spout movie dialogue or a sportsnut, or something along those lines( i was gonna say a zombie in there but, well...).
This would at least create some different tension between the cast.

I had no prob with the formatting and actual writing - i remember checking out TV format on a demo of FD. The timing of your comic lines was good too.
I dunno how this would go as a full blown series as you guys would really have to dig deep to make each ep not the same.
Maybe you could do this as a one-off movie script? I'm certainly not discouraging you, no way!

Good luck with it in the future    stevie

PS - I forgot to mention: it read a little too much of a modern version of 'Are You Being Served' - was that a major influence?



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Tommyp
Posted: May 24th, 2010, 4:03am Report to Moderator
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Tim....

Late? My night was just starting...

Thanks for the read.


Quoted Text
I think you are using too much innuendo and relying on sex jokes to get your laughs, and as a result it's a bit one-note all the way through.


Yes, we have got this comment a few times from other people. I suppose we just looked at the popular sitcoms at the moment, and past sitcoms, saw that they had a great deal of sex jokes in them, and went for it.  


Quoted Text
Where is this supposed to be set? Don't know if you'd get away with saying poofters on a sitcom anymore either.


Good point, that is something we have to work on. We are not 100% where it is set... yet. Poofter? Maybe not, another good point.


Quoted Text

Apprentices are usually very young, so not sure why Tania would assume the guy would be married or widowed. Widowed in particular feels like an odd thing to toss out there. Also apprentices are unlikely to start cutting hair on their first day, they'll more likely be cleaning up hair and doing odd jobs. If they were cutting hair they would have been hired as an actual hairdresser.


Interesting. And it's got me thinking, which makes me cringe, because it is a good point that we haven't thought about too much. Will work on it.


Quoted Text
Emily has a change in tone in her dialogue several places throughout.


In many instances she is just trying to fit in. And she feels she can do that by swearing and making jokes.


Quoted Text
The kissing scene in the salon seems more like a dream sequence than reality. Her getting her boobs wet with shampoo etc. And the boss is basically encouraging this? Can't see it happening. Especially in front of customers. And which results in David fucking up his haircut. Too unlikely.


I think maybe you are missing the whole "feel" of this script. Lot's of it is over the top, but it's supposed to be like that. It's not aimed towards you, Tim. I assume. Because you probably wouldn't like jokes like these... maybe that is why you don't like it? I'm not sure... Maybe you do like shows like this, and just think this one isn't good...


Quoted Text
Ok so overall this has potential but needs a good rewrite IMO. The two biggest sitcome of the last 20 years have been Seinfeld and Freinds. They had characters who sounded real and were put in situations that you might find yourself in. In short, they were relatable. The characters had their own quirks or whatever but they acted realistically in the situation (except for Kramer perhaps who provided an outlet for more zany humour). My gut feeling is that these people you have created here sound more like caricatures than real people. The flamboyant gay guy. The slut. The innocent dumb kid. The insecure boss. The smart-ass slacker. It could just be that they need more time to develop to see other sides to them, but in future episodes I'd try to concentrate more on giving them well-rounded personalities rather than just on the jokes and innuendo. What can we realte to them over and what will make us care for and emotionally invest in these characters? Jokes are fine, but story and empathy are important too.


Agreed. And that makes me think you do GET the show, and have found flaws in it.

Point taken about dialogue overall. It is obviously a first draft, so dialogue can only improve (you would hope!) from here. Sorry I haven't replied back to every point, there is nothing really to discuss or argue, you hit the nail on the head many times, so thanks.

You have helped Gary and I a lot, and the rewrite will definately take in your points.

Thanks again, Tim.



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TheRichcraft
Posted: May 25th, 2010, 7:34pm Report to Moderator
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I can't get this one to come up on my computer.  Can you send a copy to Ides315R@aol.com?  Love to read it.  Thanks, Richard
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Tommyp
Posted: May 25th, 2010, 9:29pm Report to Moderator
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Sure, Ritch.

Sent.


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Trojan
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Quoted from Tommyp
Tim....

Late? My night was just starting...


What can I say mate, I'm getting old!!


Quoted Text
Interesting. And it's got me thinking, which makes me cringe, because it is a good point that we haven't thought about too much. Will work on it.


My sister worked as an apprentice hairdresser and I remember how long it took for her to actually start cutting hair, so thought I would mention it.



Quoted Text
I think maybe you are missing the whole "feel" of this script. Lot's of it is over the top, but it's supposed to be like that. It's not aimed towards you, Tim. I assume. Because you probably wouldn't like jokes like these... maybe that is why you don't like it? I'm not sure... Maybe you do like shows like this, and just think this one isn't good...


You are kind of right, more in the sense though that I don't like most sitcoms anymore. I used to watch a lot of them but I guess I just don't find them funny anymore. Or maybe the quality of the shows on TV these days is less than it was ten years ago. I'm not sure. And it's not that I don't think the jokes are good, because some of them really are, just more that I probably find things funnier if I can relate to it somehow rather than just it being a one-liner. But you are right in that I wouldn't be the target audience so take my comments with a grain of salt.


Quoted Text
Agreed. And that makes me think you do GET the show, and have found flaws in it.


I think a really good sitcom is tough to create and takes a lot of work. So if I were to say there was a 'flaw' here it would be more along the lines of perhaps you need to put more planning into this, rather than the actual writing. I mean about stuff like where it is actually set, where the show is headed, character development and things like that. I believe that when writers submit a pilot they also submit the first few episodes and a 'bible'. Which I think is to do with the backstory of all the characters and has a ton of info to help market the show. I'm not 100% sure on all the details but basically it shows how much thought and planning has been put in and whether or not the show has potential for a long run on TV.

I said I don't really like sitcoms anymore but one that I do like and watch now and again is How I Met Your Mother. That has a great hook in that it could keep running because it always has somewhere to go, the lead character telling the story of how he met his kids' mother. It gives the characters room to grow. Also it's relatable because everyone has been is some kind of situation that one of the characters are in. And one of the main reasons it doesn't go stale is it keeps the sexual tension alive. Ted might have a crush on Robin, and they might take the whole season to play the storyline out, the will they or won't they get together.

If characters end up together too easily there is no tension and less reason to watch. So I felt by having two of your characters so sexually agressive it's kind of taking out the possibility of some of them ending up together. Not that the characters aren't interesting, but where is the Ted/Robin or Ross/Rachel element here? Not every show has to have this but a lot of the successful ones do. Even the Drew Carey show had it with Drew and Kate. Doesn't hurt to have a little bit of drama to go with the comedy IMO, and something for people to get behind and invest in. I guess I'm thinking where is this show headed and has it got enough to keep it going for 5 or 6 years. Because that is what producers and networks will be looking for. I guess what I am trying to get at is to maybe have the characters and the situations a little more relatable and realistic, as those are the shows that seem to find the most success.


Quoted Text
You have helped Gary and I a lot, and the rewrite will definately take in your points.

Thanks again, Tim.


No worries, hope it helps. Like I said, I'm not really the target audience either so I'm not suggesting my ideas are necessarily right. Just what I think might give the series a broader appeal.

Cheers,
Tim.

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