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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  The Sisterhood Moderators: bert
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  Author    The Sisterhood  (currently 949 views)
Don
Posted: April 26th, 2011, 10:47pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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The Sisterhood by Martin Cox (chelsea) - Short, Drama - The girls just wanna have fun! 13 pages - pdf, format


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Trojan
Posted: April 27th, 2011, 9:10am Report to Moderator
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I really hate when people write these type of loglines. It tells us absolutely nothing about the story. Really, it's more of a tagline that you might see on a movie poster, not an actual logline. Who and what is this story about? The logline should sell the reader on the script, what you have here doesn't do that.

Ok I read the first couple pages and then stopped. I hoped something might grab me, but it didn't. There is too much pointless description of things that don't matter. You have run on sentences that read kind of awkwardly. Get rid of a lot of the commas and break things up into smaller sentences.

If you'd written a proper logline and had piqued my interest, perhaps I'd be interested enough to keep reading. But yeah, sorry, when there's so many scripts on here you aren't doing yourself any favours by not selling your story right from the get go.

Cheers,
Tim.
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: April 27th, 2011, 10:45am Report to Moderator
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Taking a long vacation from the holidays.

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Hey Martin,

Always a good thing to see new script from SS regulars.
This is the second script in a row I've read that touches on mastectomies. Funky.
I'm in agreement with Trojan about the logline.
However, I read the script because I know you're a member in good standing.

At times, I felt you were going for over the top comedy here.
The male antag plays like a bi-polar Stanley Kowalski type.
You pile on a lot of tragedy in the opening five pages.
Abuse. Rape. Alcoholism. Breast Cancer. Incest. It's quite a dearth sandwich.
Because of all this and the frivolous logline, I took this one as satire.
I kept waiting for the moment when we realize this is all an infomercial.
And a prospective "client" is debating hiring the Sisterhood.

If you intended this to be a straight up drama, it was too jump the shark for me.

Keep writing and rewriting!

Regards,
E.D.


LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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chelsea
Posted: April 28th, 2011, 9:10am Report to Moderator
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Okay Tim.

I'll be succinct here.

There are some real problems on this site at present, which are being acknowledged and addressed on the QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS  thread STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS.

Your comments here epitomize the issues exactly.

Rude, arrogant, no constructive criticism and the temerity to be predisposed to berate and ridicule fellow writers without giving them the respect of reading their scripts in their entirety.

This behavior has led to many good people (now including myself) to migrate from this site.

I wish you all you wish for yourself.

Martin.


My Scripts:

Hail The Cabbie. Appx. 9 pages A taxi ride to the absolute terminus.

Pink is the New Black.10 pages. Homophobes beware!

The Bullet Train. 5 pages. Economy equals retribution.

Pillow Talk. 4 pages. It's hard to bear sometimes.

The perfect Ending. 8 pages. Amy's present is her past.



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Trojan
Posted: April 28th, 2011, 9:54am Report to Moderator
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You can choose to take the feedback in that vein if you wish, however that's not how I intended it. The fact is, you have not written a logline that tells me anything about the story, so I pointed that out. That is actually constructive advice, whether you wish to listen to it or not.

I pointed out a few things in the actual writing that I feel can be imporved on. Is this rude or arrogant? The reason I didn't read the whole script is because nothing hooked me, and you didn't covince me there was a story here in your logline. If I am not compelled to read the whole script, is it my fault or yours?

I've read the troll thread, I think you've got it backwards if anything. The whole issue arose from a particular writer who didn't like the feedback he received so lashed out at those giving the reviews. Then it turned ugly from there.

The problem is people post their scripts for feedback, then get defensive when they don't like what they hear. Sure, things got personal on that other thread, and that's why it was a problem. How is what I've written here even remotely similar to what happened on that thread? It isn't.

If you are seriously suggesting my comments are enough to make you leave this site, I think you're in for a rude shock as a writer as it is all about having your work ripped apart and analysed. It happens to everyone, on a lot harsher level than this. Seriously mate, get used to it because this is nothing. All I've done is point out that your logline is not how a good logline should read, and that your writing could use some tightening in places. What is the big fucking deal, are we not all on here to listen to different viewpoints and improve as writers?

For fucks sake, soon this will get to the point where we aren't allowed to write anything that can be construed as negative because someone will get upset. I've seen it on other forums where people don't even comment about format or spelling or bring up any mistakes. And guess what? Those writers don't learn what they are doing wrong and thus their work never gets better, defeating the whole purpose of posting their work in the first place. But hey, as long as their feelings don't get hurt, right?!
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Dressel
Posted: April 28th, 2011, 1:47pm Report to Moderator
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Tim,

I think he's more upset with your tone.  I read your post and it almost seems like you're scolding him for his script; and absolutely talking down to him.

Furthermore, you don't actually provide examples but speak entirely in generalities.  

You may be correct (I'm planning to read this soon, so I don't know), but the manner in which you approached your critique DID come off as fairly rude.  It was almost as if you were chastising him for wasting your time instead of providing a proper critique.

Your response doesn't help either.

-Matt


CHECK OUT MY WEB SERIES

The Pilot is Dead

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Dressel
Posted: April 28th, 2011, 2:01pm Report to Moderator
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Martin,

Gotta agree with Brett here: there's too much going on in this story.  I don't know what Tim was talking about with there being no story; there's actually just too much.  You've got so many drama topics  being covered in the span of 4 pages, it's enough to make your head spin.  You should really think about what ones are the most important and leave them in.  I know it's possible that someone could have a life this bad, but it starts to come off as kind of cliche when you see it back-to-back, especially so close together.  Thom doesn't need to be a drunk, abuser, and a rapist.  He can be one and I'm pretty sure we'd still hate him, if you made him act a certain way.  As it is right now, it's just a bit too over the top.

I'm not so sure I understand what The Sisterhood is all about either.  I think you might need to delve into that a little more, and maybe make it so it doesn't come out of nowhere.

So yeah, I would go back and let this story breathe a bit, because everything happens VERY fast.  Maybe stretch it out over the course of a couple days; show us some time in this woman's life.


Random Notes

p.1 - Cathy's first line is way too on the nose

p.1 - Try "HAYLEY (17), an incredibly pretty blond in a cheerleader's outfit, enters." or something to that effect.

p.1 - You can't disguise tears.  You hide them.

p.2 - "You hear me.  Never!" is too on the nose/cliche

p.2-  refrigerator is misspelled at the bottom

p.3 - I don't think you find out about cancer results in the mail.

p.4 - "backhands her to THE floor"

p.5 - add a comma before sweetie

p.6- period at the end behind Cathy

p.7 -Question mark at the end of "What do you think Hayley"

p.8 - Question mark at the end of "foolproof"

p.9 - Add an apostrophe to "I'm" (Leyla's line)


Hope this helps!

-Matt


CHECK OUT MY WEB SERIES

The Pilot is Dead

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Dreamscale
Posted: April 28th, 2011, 3:53pm Report to Moderator
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I see nothing wrong with Tim's post whatsoever.  He does indeed bring up several problems that are very relevant.  A piss poor logline is not the way to attract readers.

It continually shocks and amazes me how immature so many people are.  As Tim correctly points out, real writers need to have the thickest skin of all, because the majority of feedback is based on personal opinions and you can't please everyone, all of the time.

One thing you can do, is write solid, clean prose that adheres to screenwriting format and handles all the technicalities correctly.  There will be those who question this or that, but they can't tell you it's wrong unless it is.

Everyone can write their feedback however they choose to do so.  If someone's in a bad mood, their review may lean that way.  If someone is tired of reading the same old crap, they'll probably tell you so.  If someone continuously repeats the same irritating mistakes over an over, chances are good you're going to hear about it in a less than flattering way.

Grow up, peeps!  Jeez...it's all meant to help, and as Tim says, if you don't realize you're making mistakes, you're going to continue to do so.

I'm going to read this now and provide my feedback, so get out a box of Kleenex in case you're going to need it.
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bert
Posted: April 28th, 2011, 3:59pm Report to Moderator
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Buy the ticket, take the ride

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Tim was maybe a tad snarky, but not unreasonable, and based upon his past reviews he more than earns the benefit of the doubt.

Martin's response is weird and out of proportion to the perceived insult.  And since he tends to get loads of feedback on just about everything he posts, I suspect he is just having a bad day.

Moderator's Ruling:  No penalties for Tim; get over it, Martin.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Dreamscale
Posted: April 28th, 2011, 4:36pm Report to Moderator
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OK, Martin, I read it.

The things Tim brought up are spot on.  Your misuse and at other times, lack of use of commas is frightening.  It makes for a difficult read.  I can tell you don't want to know where these all are or why they're incorrect, so we'll leave it at that, but trust me, there are major grammatical errors on display here multiple times, on every page.

SPOILERS     SPOILERS     SPOILERS     SPOILERS

The big issue is your Logline, cause it makes this out to be a light hearted romp, and it's actually so far from that.  In many ways, this is a horror short, as it's violent, twisted, and very dark.  You're going to piss people off who don't want to read this kind of script, thinking it's something it's completely not.

There is a story here and the title is fine, actually.  In terms of details, there's way too much negativity early on. It's piled on so heavy and it comes across as so over the top that it's almost comical.  Cathy has cancer (as told in a letter, of all things).  Cathy is in an extremely abusive, brutal relationship.  Her daughter is being raped by her husband.  Her daughter is pregnant from her husband.  I for one, just can't take this all seriously, cause it's too much and unrealistic.  Then, e have a neighbor living across the hallway who just so happens to be part of the Sisterhood, who is a group of abused women, who take the law into their own hands by brutally killing the abusive husbands.  Like she just now became aware that maybe Cathy was in need of her services?

The brutality is troubling in anything other than the horror genre, but it's handled here quite oddly...almost as if it's a satirical dark comedy.

Overall, if the writing is cleaned up, it's not a bad script, but it needs to be labeled as what it is, and that's the single biggest offense here.

Hope this post doesn't cause you to leave the site or bring you to tears.
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Trojan
Posted: April 29th, 2011, 12:14am Report to Moderator
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I'm sorry if anything in my post was out of line, I really didn't think it was. If anything, I was probably frustrated because I'd been reading so many scripts that day. I read and reviewed about 15 of the scripts over at MP and came here to take a break from that. Only a couple were good and the majority were average to poor, all from basic stuff that people seemingly keep wanting to say doesn't matter.

So when I read a script if there are any red flags it automatically makes me wonder if there will be lots of other problems. Just because in 95% of the time that turns out to be the case. So a logline like this one sends up a big red flag. Your logline needs to be specific to your story, not some general phrase or saying that can apply to any one of a hundred different scripts on this site.

I stopped reading because nothing grabbed me (I didn't say there was no story here, as someone alluded to). I had other scripts to read and I was getting near burnout stage. As far as I know, there are no rules that state when you open a script to give it a chance that you're obligated to finish it. What I do with my free time is up to me.

The reason a lot of people keep reinforcing the structure and the format is that to have even a shot at selling a feature, it needs to be pretty much perfect. Put yourselves in the shoes of a professional reader, and think of how many pages they read each and every week. If you're competing against professional writers that have a flawless looking script, and you've got all sorts of mistakes going on, you'll go straight to the bottom of the pile. It's not like someone is sitting there with eager anticipation to read your script, it's just one of many that they are looking for a reason to pass on. They will find enough reasons on their own, don't help them out by giving them freebies.

As an example of the right way to do things, check out Mark's script Some Will Find This Difficult. These were right next to each other so I checked them both out. From his title and logline I wanted to read on. The writing was professional and the story engaging, so I felt compelled to read on and see what happened next. He found a way to make his story stand out and I enjoyed reading it. But if he'd written a logline such as 'Some families are strange' I probably wouldn't have read it at all.

Not trying to upset anyone here, just to make the point that sometimes we need to start thinking as the reader and be more aware of what's going on in their world and how we can draw them into our story better. If you want to see some actual examples of this, check out some of Mr Z's scripts. They grab you by the throat straight away and don't let up, you wouldn't even think about not finishing the script.

Cheers,
Tim.
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