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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Attrition Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: May 23rd, 2011, 5:31pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Attrition by Peter Breeze - Short - After years of plying his trade in the underworld, an aging mobster decides to retire. (9 pages) - pdf, format


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rc1107
Posted: May 25th, 2011, 5:57am Report to Moderator
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Hey Peter.

Lol.  Well, this one certainly gets my vote for World's Stupidest Crime Family ever.  :-)

****SPOILERS****  (kind of)

I have to say, though, this one was really easy to see coming.  It was going to go either two ways:  1)  That Petey was pissed Tony was retiring and was going to whack him, or 2) It was a surprise party and shit was going to go down.

It became very easy to guess what was going to happen.

A couple things that I thought I should mention, though, is that every character, EVERY character, sounds exactly the same.  There's absolutely no distinction between them.  I know you were going after stereotypes of gangsters and all that, but every single character sounded exactly the same.  Even Petey, the boss, who should have showed a little more intelligence in his speech (and party-planning) spoke exactly like his goons.  There was no distinction between anybody.  (In fact, I pictured Joe Pesci as every single character, you know, like something Eddie Murphy would do, play all the roles.)

Another thing is the dialogue was very very on-the-nose.  For instance, when Tony goes up to see Petey, Tony says that "Tommy, the bartender, sent me up."  I'm pretty sure that Petey, the guy running the show here, knows who his own bartender is.  It just read a little unnatural.

Anyway, I hope this helps a little bit.  It just seems kind of like a 'been there, done that' kind of story.  It never really brought anything new to the table.

- Mark


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ajr
Posted: May 25th, 2011, 8:09am Report to Moderator
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Peter,

I did read this the other day (sucker for the word "mobster") so I guess it's only fair I comment on it.

I echo a lot of what rc said. SPOILERS........................  there's one of two possibilities happening in the ending - that he gets whacked, or there's a twist. I think it's possible for you to telegraph the twist less and even if someone sees it coming I think it has potential to be powerful if shot correctly. Don't hammer us over the head with "the door will be unlocked" and things of that nature. Subtlety is the key, and it's even more subtle if you can do it in the description and not the dialogue...

Um, okay, now to the mobsters. I don't think the issue is that there's no character distinction - I think the issue is that they're drawn almost as cartoons or satires of themselves. Also, there's no reason to introduce each character in the V.O. in the beginning if they're not going to have a substantial role. Spending a little time describing them in the narrative should suffice...

The main problem I had with this is the dialogue. You really don't peg what a modern day mobster sounds like, and there are a lot of instances of unneccessary dialogue. These guys don't usually talk much - they are men of action. As an example, no wiseguy would say "duty calls" before going to see his boss.

I think at six pages with some tightening you could still have a fairly decent morality tale here. Good luck and keep at it -

Anthony


Click HERE to read JOHN LENNON'S HEAVEN https://preview.tinyurl.com/John-Lennon-s-Heaven-110-pgs/

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ajr  -  May 25th, 2011, 9:13am
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Peter Breeze
Posted: May 25th, 2011, 9:43am Report to Moderator
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Hey thanx for the read guys.

This was my second post on this site and I hope I showed some improvement. One thing that I have taken away from all this is... It's a lot harder than it looks.

I noticed there wasn't anything mentioned about format. Am I on the right track or am I asking for another six paragraphs of criticism? :>)

As far as the outcome. I thought by creating (two) possibilities it would keep the reader interested to the point where they would stay around for the ending. I guess I was wrong.

It's true that I didn't explore any of the characters in depth. It was a short, so I approached it with that in mind. These guys were an off-shoot (no pun intended) of a major mob and I tried to portray them as "The Mob That Couldn't Shoot Straight."

rc1107 and ajr... Thanx again for taking the time to sit down and give me an in depth critique. I respect your suggestions and will try to impliment them as I go.
I have no doubt you've been doing this a lot longer than I have.

Peter
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ajr
Posted: May 25th, 2011, 9:47am Report to Moderator
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Peter,

I get from your description "the mob that couldn't shoot straight" that you intended them to be a little buffoonish. Which is cool, except that tone is in direct conflict with your ending.

For example, there are poignant comedies, dark comedies, slapstick comedies where someone might get seriously hurt, etc. but they all have a consistent tone throughout. If you're doing a dark, dramatic ending, you can't do it with comedic characters.

Hope this helps -

AJR


Click HERE to read JOHN LENNON'S HEAVEN https://preview.tinyurl.com/John-Lennon-s-Heaven-110-pgs/
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Heretic
Posted: May 25th, 2011, 10:39am Report to Moderator
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As I go:

Page 1:  Is there a reason all the characters are introduced like this?  It seems super awkward to just list them all.  It takes a full page.  You could probably introduce them all, and let us know a lot more about them, with about a page and a half of dialogue.  If the audience is just bombarded with their names in a list like this, they’re not going to remember them anyway.
Alternatively, if it’s not vital to the story, you could just not introduce their names.

Page 2: “Tommy the bartender told me…”  Since Big Petey just sent Tommy, I’m sure he knows that Tommy is the bartender, and I’m sure Tony could just say “Tommy told me…”  This stuck out as awkward to me.

Page 3: “Something about his shifty eyes.”  I dunno, this comes off a little silly.  I think it might work better as just, “Never trusted that punk.  Shifty eyes.”
Big Petey says that Louie’s “light” twice, and then says, “He’s stealing from me.”  Redundant.  And I think Big Petey is a “less is more” kinda guy, no?

Page 4:  The exposition on this page is extremely awkward and distracting.

Page 5:  “I want you to hurt him bad…”  This line is totally redundant.  Big Petey repeating himself so often makes him look silly.
“Remember…this Friday night…”  They’ve been working together for 25 years.  Surely Big Petey trusts that he only has to tell him what to do once?  I was just assuming that Tony’s quite good at his job.  I don’t think Petey should reiterate.

Page 6:  What does this scene add to the story?  All that happens is that Tony rehashes the scene that we just watched.

Yeah…I guessed that that was the punchline.  Poor Tony…

Thoughts:

Little thing to start, because I didn't note it above.  When he's deciding in V.O. which gun to take, I think he should do that while he's looking at them in the trunk, not while he's driving.  On first reading my thought was that he was already in Jersey and trying to decide what gun to bring from home, which didn't make any sense.

Actually, I can't give you my thoughts just yet.  I have a question first.

What are you trying to say, what point are you trying to make, with this script?  If you're willing to share that.

AJR refers above to a bit of inconsistency in tone with the script.  I absolutely agree with that.  At the end of the script, we're not really sure how we're supposed to feel.  Bad for him?  Laughing at him?  It's unclear.  What is this story telling us?  Once you know that, and make sure that every aspect of the script serves that, these problems will disappear.

Thanks for the fun read, and look forward to seeing you around the boards!
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rc1107
Posted: May 25th, 2011, 11:30am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Peter Breeze
This was my second post on this site and I hope I showed some improvement.


Actually, I wasn't even sure if you were on the boards or not, I was just leaving my thoughts hoping that the author would happen to see the comments, so I had no idea you even had another story posted.  What's the name of it?  I'll be sure to check it out when I get a chance.

The logline is what made me read this one, because, like Anthony, (ajr), I have a soft spot for gangster stories, too.


Quoted from Peter Breeze
I noticed there wasn't anything mentioned about format.  Am I on the right track or am I asking for another six paragraphs of criticism?


Probably another six paragraphs of criticism.  Lol.  Not from me, though.  I'm more of a free-style kind of guy and as long as there's not any annoying camera directions that take me out of the story and it reads fluid, I'll be happy with the format.

There are some people here that others will refer to as 'format Nazi's', though, (trust me, you can't miss them).  But you should definately pay attention to what the 'format Nazi's' have to say, because I think, almost all the time, what they say is the right way to do things and the standard spec way and will help your story appear a lot more professional than just the free-style way of doing things.  They'll actually help you grow as a writer and become more comfortable with your work.

Right off the bat, though, I did notice that your slugs are very annoying.

'INT. STARLITE BAR - SHEEPSHEAD BAY - BROOKLYN, N.Y. - DAY'

That's a pretty jumbly mess.  Simply--

'INT. BAR  -  DAY'

-- will do just fine.  The fact that it's name is Starlite is irrelevant as we never see the outside sign, that it's Sheepshead Bay is irrelevent, and that it's in Brooklyn is redundant since all the characters speak with a Brooklyn accent anyway.  The audience'll be able to put 2 and 2 together.

Another example:

'INT. STORMVILLE PRISON - OAKMONT, NEW YORK - DAY'

Another unnecessary jumble.

'INT. PRISON CELL  -  DAY'

We only see a cell anyway.  It could be in Butt Fuck, New York, (also known as Poughkeepsie) and nobody would know the difference.  It's just a cell.


I also noticed there were three blank pages, one in the beginning and two at the end.  I'm not too sure what that's about.  Maybe in your last story somebody gave advice that the more white space on your page, the better,  :-)  but I don't think that's what they meant.  It was probably just something with the software you use, though, and is probably fixable.

Hope I didn't sound too much like a format Nazi there, but then again, you did ask for six paragraphs.  :-)

Welcome to the boards, by the way.

-Mark



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rc1107  -  May 25th, 2011, 11:32am
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Dreamscale
Posted: May 25th, 2011, 2:23pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Peter, I also read this when it first popped up, but decided not to post anything, as some in here feel I drive people away with harsh criticism.  I'm glad to see you got some feedback, as the other 2 scripts this showed up with yours are still sitting at zero posts.

I'm also one of those "Format Nazi's", Mark speaks of.  As far as I'm concerned, that doesn't make me a bad person, but others in here seem to disagree.  If I make a mistake, I'm very thankful to anyone who points it out, cause I don't like making mistakes.  Most in here, seem to prefer making the same mistakes over and over again and get very upset when someone shows them that their grammar is horrific, their format is off, their punctuation looks like a 3rd grader's, etc.

But, since you're asking, let's take a look.

You start with a blank page, and that's a really bad way to get things rolling, obviously.  You also end with 2 blank pages.  This should never happen.

As Mark said, your Slugs aren't good.  Let's take a look...

"INT. STARLITE BAR - SHEEPSHEAD BAY - BROOKLYN, N.Y. - DAY"

Like Mark noted, "Sheepshead Bay" and "Brooklyn, N.Y." aren't at all necessary here.  If you want us to know this, you need a SUPER, as in a filmed version, no one sees any Slugs, obviously.  I for one, believe in being exact in my Slugs, and using the actual name of the bar, to me, is a good thing.  It adds reality to the script. It shows a sense of detail, and I say do this all the time.

But there's more wrong here.  Again, sticking to the philosophy that Slugs can and should be your friends, and provide as much detail as possible, you need to understand that we're really not just in the Starlight Bar...we're in a "backroom" of the bar, and this info should be provided in the Slug, therefore, you wouldn't need your first line, following the Slug.

Just like if you're in John Smith's house, in the master bedroom, at night, your Slug should read...

"SMITH'S HOUSE - MASTER BEDROOM - NIGHT"

So, your opening Slug should be...

"STARLIGHT BAR - BACKROOM - DAY"

Your first 4 passages are all single sentence passages, and none of them read very well to me.  The rest of Page 1 are literally character intro's and descriptions, and although I thought you did bring a little life to each with your descriptions, none of these people have anything to do with the story here, so it's kind of all in vein.

As others mentioned, the dialogue is very cliche and non realistic, although it also isn't comedic or cartoonish, meaning, it seems like you're going for a serious piece here.  There's also too much dialogue...too many things being said that don't need to be, or shouldn't be.

OK, so your next Slug on Page 2 is another problem...or maybe it's the lines that follow it that makes it a problem.  If we're in an INT scene, inside of an office, how do you show it's over a Dry Cleaner's?  You can't.  Also, why the "one room" description?  How many rooms do most offices have?

Then, the next passage is totally wrong and a HUGE problem.  Remember, we're still inside this one room office, yet Tony's walking a block, up a flight of stairs, and then knocking on that very same office door, that we're supposedly inside of.

All the stuff that follows until Tony enters the office is also incorrect.

I'm not going to continue but hopefully this makes sense and helps.  Also, watch out for orphans running around...single words at the end of a sentence that spill onto a new line, and thus, waste that line.  Sometimes 2 words can be viewed the same way, and usually, they're easy to get rid of by writing a tighter sentence.

As others said, I too saw the ending coming and IMO, it was rather foolish for these guys to plan this the way way they did.

I think it runs a little long, but in other ways, I do actually like what you're trying to do with your characters.  It could be pretty good with some rewriting and fixing up the problems.

Best of luck and welcome aboard.  read other scripts so those people will in turn read your scripts...quid pro quo...hope you like it here on SS.

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rc1107
Posted: May 25th, 2011, 3:35pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
I'm also one of those "Format Nazi's", Mark speaks of.


Lol.  Yes, Dreamscale is.  But he's also the one I said you should listen to because he'll never steer you in the wrong direction and will help you in a great way.

And by the way, Jeff, I had no qualms using the word 'format nazi' since I think I saw you refer to yourself as one in a past post.  I forget where I saw it at, but I think it was you, so I knew you wouldn't get offended.  I wonder if you're any relation to Lars von Trier.


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Dreamscale
Posted: May 25th, 2011, 4:07pm Report to Moderator
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No offense taken, damnit!

If I referred to myself as a format Nazi, it was in response to someone calling me one.

Not a big fan of Mr. Von Trier...
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Peter Breeze
Posted: May 26th, 2011, 9:43am Report to Moderator
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Thanx for the welcome.

Based on the suggestions put forth, I definately have to go back to the drawing boards. I have other scripts I'm working on, so it's rewrite time.

One problem that I have is reviewing someone elses work. I hardly think that I'm qualified to sit in judgement and review someone's script when I barely have a grasp of the process myself, yet I realize the value of this site is doing precisely that. Since I discovered this site, I've read several scrpts but actually commented on just a few, more or less agreeing with what others in the thread have said.

I like the site and its wide range of genres. Presently, they're very few sites like this on the net.

I'll be working to raise the level of quality on my future posts.

Peter

P.S.

That business with the blank pages was a software problem that I have since corrected. I should have checked it before I uploaded it. Think I should post a revision or just live with it?
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Vaproductions
Posted: May 30th, 2011, 9:23am Report to Moderator
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@ rc1107
I agree with pretty much everything you said on your review here. Because at times the dialog was very on the nose and lack flair.

@ Peter  Also this seems to be a very typical mob story here. The  story here  just isn't exciting or blood pumping you know.  It  was like a cheezy Tony shoots Manolo type feel at the end. And not to say it didn't work. But it wasn't exciting. There was no build up to why he went in there and killed practically his own peoples for no reason at all.
This is just my personal view on the story. I give you a 2.5 out 5.
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Pale Yellow
Posted: December 10th, 2011, 9:15am Report to Moderator
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Hey Peter...

I'm new too, and don't feel like you're not qualified enough to read and review. I've been trying to read and review and nobody has told me to go away yet So with that bein said....

Most things have already been pointed out.

I did notice that on page 4 you have a slug INT. OFFICE yet undernearth it, you have Tony walking down a street and up a flight of stairs before he's actually in the office. You could either cut some out or add an EXT. if you think the descripts of the walk to the office is real important.

The story was 'ok' for me. As said before, the dialogue needs the most work IMO. Keep working and pressing on.

I, too, agree with you  on.....It's harder than it looks! I look forward to reading more of your work!
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CoopBazinga
Posted: December 10th, 2011, 12:07pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Peter,

I am also new to this and please take all the criticism you have had with great enthusiasm and respect, it is meant in the best interests of you, the writer. From my short time here I do believe everyone is trying to help and let’s be honest, none of us are perfect.

Your script had a few issues as stated in other posts and the dialogue was all so similar, these gangsters had no personalities of their own. Even though I knew the plot was going one of two ways it kept me interested for the whole and that’s good for a writer, keep the reader interested.

The first couple pages were just descriptions on characters that had no bearing on the overall story. I would cut most of this and concentrate on your main protagonist. I would also add a bit more tension, anticipation to the last scene, make it harder for the reader to anticipate.

It was a interesting piece and with a bit of revision could be so much better.  Learn from other scripts from this site and never give up!

Good luck and keep writing

Steve
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13thChamber
Posted: December 14th, 2011, 2:41pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Peter

I'm still a newbie myself here. All I can say is I liked it, but there we're some issues. Everyone above me has touched on them. Main thing for me, was your dialogue. It was just too basic, not much character in the voices. Other than that, It read smooth enough. Another thing, listen to some of these people on this board, they offer really good advice. Dreamscale is notorious for harsh reviews on this site, but that makes his critiques that much more valuable. Not everyone will be that brutally honest. So, take what you can into the next one. If this is only your second work, then your on the right track. Good luck.


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