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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Discussion of...     General Chat  ›  Totally Trashing Scripts Moderators: bert
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 Do we tolerate the outright trashing of scripts?
Zero tolerance (14 votes)
36.84%
Case-by-case (11 votes)
28.95%
Sometimes maybe if the author is a dick (9 votes)
23.68%
Screw 'em, no holds barred (3 votes)
7.89%
Don't even care, not a problem (1 votes)
2.63%
38 Votes Total
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  Author    Totally Trashing Scripts  (currently 11654 views)
bert
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 2:35pm Report to Moderator
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So, time for another lazy Saturday afternoon Moderator Question, requesting your thoughtful consideration and input.

First off, nobody will question that Don puts up some crappy scripts from time to time.

We all know it -- but it is Don's choice -- and we put up with it as part of the boards.

Let us emphasize that for a moment -- Don's choice.  It is how he wants to run things around here.

Now, sometimes one of these horrible scripts will take off with comment after comment about how horrible the script is -- every new poster trying to one-up the poster before him with clever adjectives for outright horribleness that may or may not incorporate diarrhea, or dog poop, or calling into question the author's age, grade level, or and/or sexual preferences.

*  Sure, sometimes it is fun and interesting to read those threads.
*  Many times the author never even shows up -- no harm, no foul.
*  Sometimes the author does show up -- angry or accepting or thankful or hurt or some combination of these.
*  And maybe, sometimes, the author sees it, but never comments and never returns.

Now, sometimes the scripts ARE an utter waste of time and space -- whether that needs to be verbalized or not -- but I emphasize once more:

Point one:  It is Don's choice to post them.
And another point:  I am starting to think that sometimes reviews of this sort reflect negatively on our house here -- and I will sometimes see conversations to this effect on other forums.

So the question put forth is this:  Is it time to stop tolerating the outright trashing of scripts?  How much is too much?


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Dreamscale
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 2:51pm Report to Moderator
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Hmmm, I wonder "who" this is regarding...

In that person's defense, let's be clear that many have and continue to do this, in 1 way or another.  Yes, sometimes, diarrhea, dog poop, age and sexual preference comes into play, but hopefully it's done in a comedic way, or at least meant to be comedic.

Then again, as Best points out, many of these scripts that get "trashed" completely and honestly deserve the thrashing they receive.  Is it a problem to say that a script is extremely poorly written and thought out?  Is it a problem to say I personally hated this script?

You know, all joking aside, the funny thing is that none of his is ever a problem until someone decides to make an issue of it, by jumping in and calling names and causing a ruckus.  Is that any better or more tolerable than the potential issue being raised here?
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wonkavite
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 2:59pm Report to Moderator
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Bert,

I agree wholeheartedly with you bringing this up as a topic for discussion.  I've refrained from commenting on the thread which (obviously) prompted this one.  But since the issue has been raised...

In creating and maintaining Simplyscripts, Don has done the writing community an absolutely wonderful service.  He's created a forum where writers can meet others of like minds - share work, discuss tips and solicit (hopefully) constructive criticism.  This is of immeasurable benefit, a great thing.

The key word here is *constructive*.  Now, I'm not saying that there isn't room for considerable disagreement.  And there should be.  People should feel free to disagree on SS - that's part of what makes this place special.  You get so many different opinions and views.  We don't have to like each other, or think highly of each other's work, if it's not warranted.  

BUT.  In my opinion - these opinions SHOULD be respectfully worded.  They can be straightforward and honest.  But no personal attacks, no comparing scripts to dog poop, no insults or criticisms that are meant simply to hurt and not to help.  

**Excuse me, folks - but we're all writers here.   If a person really thinks a script is abysmal, it's quite simple to say so in a NICE way.  If you can't come up with words that don't hurt unnecessarily to express your thoughts...then, well, you're not much of a writer, are you?***

When malicious posts are allowed to continue, the negative effects are threefold.

1) It says a HELL of a alot about the person posting them.

2) It scares off newbie writers that probably just need a bit of encouragement, and tips from those of us who are more experienced.

3) It DRAGS DOWN THE REPUTATION OF SIMPLYSCRIPTS - makes this board look like an unprofessional mess, both to potential new members, AND TO INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS WHO MAY BE VIEWING THE BOARDS.

I personally believe that malicious posts should not be tolerated on Simplyscripts.  And if a member cannot conduct themselves in a respectful manner to other writers, they should be permanently banned for the good of the rest of the community (as opposed to just firespotting, and deleting posts on a case-by-case basis.  That takes up too much of a moderator's time, if the infringer has continually proven themselves incapable of professional behavior.)

Revision History (4 edits; 1 reasons shown)
wonkavite  -  February 11th, 2012, 4:09pm
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 3:12pm Report to Moderator
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Bert,

Good question.

It is clearly difficult if a script is posted which is  poor, ok really poor, ok really c**p. Should we be annoyed? after all we weren't asked to read it and it's not our site. Most of the time the log line, or even title page gives you the clue.

If I read a poor script I feel indifferent, rather than angry. If I feel an emotion beyond this I need to ask why "I" feel that way, as it is about me, rather than the script.

Personally, I think the responses can be too harsh and as you have pointed out "can" lead to a frenzy of "let's beat" the author. Not something I like and lets think for a second, does this make SS a better place? Not so, IMO.

As part of a solution, I think reviewers should try and discrimate between newbies (given more slack, more guidance, suggestions etc, whatever) and those who have been around before(less slack). Then we should try and spot the "I've posted many times but never reviewed" posters(perhaps less slack). I am comfortable at reacting differently to the different types and if we need feedback from moderators to know the difference, maybe this could be supplied.

So, I will vote in the middle and hope SS can keep a level head, otherwise it is will be off putting to those who are keen, but need to learn and maybe made a mistake first time around. I know I did and I am glad I didn't run away, but it was a close run thing.

I'm guessing you have been down this road before.

cheers

RD




My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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leitskev
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 3:17pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
First off, nobody will question that Don puts up some crappy scripts from time to time.


Thanks, Don! I appreciate it!

I don't think a rule is in order. It would be difficult to know where to draw that line. Sometimes the best way of encouraging or discouraging behavior is through group reaction. If enough people vocalize their disapproval of the tone of a review, it tends to moderate things over time. Not perfectly. And a writer has to harden himself to a degree when posting work.

I was not trying to question a person's age. My point was that we don't know where a writer is their development, so why crush him? Why discourage someone who is trying? I have not read the script, so I will amend my comment in that thread.
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ghost and_ghostie gal
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 3:20pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah, there's a handful of people you make it a point to trash peoples scripts, just for the sake of doing it.  And you know who you are...?

I'm always for people being 100% honest, sometimes brutally so, but no one and I mean no one should be in the business of crushing people's dreams and aspirations.  This should not be tolerated.  Feedback is best if the reviewer point out flaws and weaknesses and offer ideas and inspiration for improvement too.  Well it should work this way.   After all we are all here to learn, improve, and help each other out.  I believe this is one of the very foundations of SimplyScripts.  I'm sure the last thing anyone here wants to do is scare new writers off.  Not too mention, most of the time you have no idea who's on the otherside of that keyboard.

Just my thoughts... going back to ghosting...

Ghostie



Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
ghost and_ghostie gal  -  February 11th, 2012, 5:52pm
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Kip
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 3:27pm Report to Moderator
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Having submitted my first script on here a short while ago and reading the feedback posts, I thought I'd give you my thoughts on the issue from a newbie's perspective.

I knew that the script I submitted was relatively poor in comparison to some that are on here. This was my first so wasn't expecting fireworks. I wanted to gauge what I was doing right/wrong and what were possible strengths and weaknesses in the way I wrote.  Yes, there were major flaws/errors in what I did, but I took the feedback on the chin. There were a lot of extremely valid points made which I will be taking on board. I didn't go out and celebrate like I'd won the lottery as some were a bit harsh. I must just say that is in no way having a pop at anyone who commented!

For new submitters, these things can be a bit daunting, and I can well imagine people with a skin less thick than mine would pack up and not bother coming back. Having said that, I think people should be able to comment freely on what they read, but maybe offer constructive points to the writer to at least get some basics right.
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greg
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 3:28pm Report to Moderator
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I don't think there's ever an instance to be a total dickface in a review unless the author was being a dickface first.  And if the author shows up after a few insulting reviews, then I think that author has a right to be a dickface in return.  

That said, while I don't agree with "totally trashing scripts", there's a lot of worse things people can do/say in the real world about your work that doesn't include comparing it to dog crap.  I think it's a waste of fucking time when one right after the other chimes in on a bad script where the author isn't even around so they can pitch in their 2 cents - that, I think, is more annoying than someone comparing the script to dog crap.  Once one person starts sounding off then it starts a chain reaction of trolling and superdickery.  That shouldn't be tolerated.  

But I guess to do that you need to go to the source, in which case perhaps cutting down on "totally trashing scripts" could be a good thing.  It's unnecessary and I think more people may just see you as a prick rather than trying to help, in which case you're just wasting everyone's time.

"This script sucks worse than dog shit and the writer is obviously a dumbass.  But I hope this helps."  I mean come on.  That's just trolling.


Be excellent to each other
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Andrew
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 3:28pm Report to Moderator
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Crikey! Didn't see the thread that has prompted this.

Maybe all the bickering - that is largely the product of testosterone with no place to go (hint: get out and away from your computer more) - is best off ringfenced here in this one thread.

In all seriousness, though, I can't stand reading some arsehole blurting on with their 'this is sh*t' nonsense. If you don't like a script, you don't need  to voice your displeasure with words that ultimately work as validation of your own perceived superiority.

Surely the rule of thumb is simply: if we were in the real world at a Simply Scripts bar and you read a script with that person in front of you, would you use the words you do from your keyboard? No. Didn't think so.

The most amusing thing is that I've called these nonsense peddlers out before and seen them come back with their dummy spat out, warbling at the audacity to decry their genius reading of a work.

For me, it's also worth observing that the better writers tend to veer clear of the script bashing. When I look at the consistently most helpful, thoughtful and knowledgeable readers, I can never recall them acting like a child calling a script [enter the silly term here].

My singular contribution added, I'm now off to see The Grey.

P.S. Spot on, Ghostie.


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James McClung
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 3:30pm Report to Moderator
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Case by case,

If a script is awful, I don't think we need to say it in a nice way. I think we should refrain from insults and especially personal attacks. "Diarrhea" and "dog poop" aren't ideal vocabulary, for example. But if a script sucks, the writer needs to know it sucks and more importantly, they need to know why it sucks and whenever possible, we should offer possible solutions to the problem. If we stay honest, objective and detailed in our responses, I don't think we need concern ourselves with how the writer might take it because whether they like it or not, we are being constructive.

Frankly, a writer needs to learn to take criticism, especially harsh criticism. Otherwise, they should quit. No one says you have to agree with every review. If someone makes a personal attack or rather a personal remark that's not merited, I think the writer has the right to respond accordingly. Otherwise... quit. Seriously.

At the same time, the board has a problem with gravitating toward bad scripts, especially stuff like The Cabin, Cannibal, Damn You, Bruce and 3 Nazis in a Foxhole. I think we should encourage personal responsibility when it comes to this stuff. Members need to consider if they want new writers to come in and see The Cabin as the hottest thread on the boards. Personally, I don't. But I don't think any new rules should be instituted.

On the other hand, there's cases where the writer might have a narcissistic complex and feed off negative feedback, going so far as posting a ton of bro douchebag YouTube videos that have nothing to do with scripts on the site. Obviously, you guys know what I'm talking about. This is when I think things get especially counterproductive and a mod might consider stepping in.

And for fuck's sake, don't post if you're on a bender! I see this less and less nowadays but it's definitely been a factor in past flame wars.

Nevertheless... Case by case with just a tip in the direction of Screw 'em. No holds barred.


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Ledbetter
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 3:36pm Report to Moderator
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In answer to Berts question.  Yes!
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Forgive
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 3:45pm Report to Moderator
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Well half the time it's really quite tricky to tell if someone is new or not - if they post on the boards then it becomes clear.

If it's so important to be gentle to newbies, then have a 'New to Script-writing' section where people can post in the knowledge that feedback will be tailored.

People learn loads from other people's feedback - and people take a lot of time out to read scripts and feedback.

I'm not too sure I've so much sympathy for those who post simply as a copyright/ repository/ chance to get aired, and give nothing back.
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Dreamscale
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 3:55pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Ledbetter
In answer to Berts question.  Yes!


Finally, a voice of reason!  Well put, brother LedHead.

James, I'm with you as well, but I do have a soft spot in my heart for The Cabin and of course, the granddaddy's granddady, "Chris Halverson's Cannibal".

Many of you others seriuosly need to relax and not take everything so damn seriously.

BEGIN RANT:

If any of you honestly think that I go out of my way to purposely trash scripts and writers on a normal basis, without trying or wanting to help, you're simply delusional.  I know for a fact that many SS'ers will stand up for me and make it clear that I have helped them on numerous occasions and gone way above and beyond, on my own personal time, for no other reason than to help.

END RANT.
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Forgive
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 3:57pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from James McClung
...I think the writer has the right to respond


Yeah - if they are around.


Quoted from James McClung
At the same time, the board has a problem with gravitating toward bad scripts


This is the more pertinent issue. Don't know how you solve it though.
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jwent6688
Posted: February 11th, 2012, 4:18pm Report to Moderator
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Can someone explain to me the difference between the "case by case" category and the "Sometimes maybe if the author is a dick" category?

James


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