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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  The Greatest Escape Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: April 10th, 2013, 8:00pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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The Greatest Escape by Dustin Bowcott (DustinBowcott) - Short, Supernatural - An Escape artist risks everything for the sake of adoration. 11 pages - pdf, format


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dogglebe
Posted: April 10th, 2013, 10:12pm Report to Moderator
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I was not at all happy with this script.  It was extremely heavily worded and went on way too long.  And there was no pay off at the end.

Your descriptions seem to go on forever.  If you were to cut them down, this script would probably be six or seven pages:


Quoted Text
Tarquinio is sitting opposite a mirror that has lights around the border. SCRIVENS (50's), Tarquinio's faithful aide and something of a deformed midget, stands back, almost in the shadows. Tarquinio watches him in the mirror.


could just as easily have been written:


Quoted Text
Tarqinio sits in front of a large make up mirror.  SCRIVENS (50s), a deformed midget, stands behind him nervously.  Tarquinio eyes him.


A third of the copy sliced away.  You put way too much detail in what you write (and this is through the script).  As a result, I grew impatient with the story.

Don't tell us things (like Scrivens is the faithful aide).  Show it to us!  This is supposed to be a visual medium.

All of your characters have that same melodramatic tone through out the script.  I can understand Tarquinio and the host being like this, but the Queen's doctor as well?


Quoted Text
       DOCTOR
I am the Royal Doctor. If this man
is dead then there isn't a better
man alive that can say so.


Seriously?



Quoted Text
First the Doctor listens at his chest. Then he pulls
out a mirror and places it beneath Tarquinio's nose,
timing it on his pocket watch. After approximately a
minute the Doctor removes the mirror and once again
turns to face the crowd


Are we supposed to watch this for a full minute?  The doctor was checking to se if he was breathing.  A few seconds is all that's needed.

The ending, I thought, was a big let down.  Tarquinio's 'trip' was interesting; your visuals was good, but then you just dropped an ending in our laps that failed.

Hope this helps.


Phil
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DustinBowcot
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 10:28am Report to Moderator
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Thanks for your thoughts doggie, I'll get onto your points now.



Quoted from dogglebe
I was not at all happy with this script.  It was extremely heavily worded and went on way too long.  And there was no pay off at the end.

Your descriptions seem to go on forever.  If you were to cut them down, this script would probably be six or seven pages:

A third of the copy sliced away.  You put way too much detail in what you write (and this is through the script).  As a result, I grew impatient with the story.


Yes perhaps a little too wordy, I wouldn't say it was extremely heavy though... and certainly not a way over exaggerated 3rd of the copy. It also seems that you are so desperate for negatives that you need to repeat the same thing three times in three paragraphs. We both know why that is, don't we doggie.



Quoted from dogglebe
All of your characters have that same melodramatic tone through out the script.  I can understand Tarquinio and the host being like this, but the Queen's doctor as well?


Often people not used to being on stage will be melodramatic as they are not professionals... plus this is set in the 1940's and things were naturally more melodramatic then anyway. At least from the films I have seen they were.



Quoted from dogglebe
Seriously?


Yes.



Quoted from dogglebe
Are we supposed to watch this for a full minute?  The doctor was checking to se if he was breathing.  A few seconds is all that's needed.


Well there are people that can hold their breath for up to five minutes. A few seconds is easily managed by most people. Try it.

However, i will concede that i need to write that scene better, indeed INCREASE it to 5 minutes... of course though the viewer will not have to wait the full 5... and neither would they have to wait a full minute in this draft. Obviously, when engaging a little common sense the director can opt to play out the scene whatever way they want. A spec writer's job is to tell the story.


Quoted from dogglebe
The ending, I thought, was a big let down.  Tarquinio's 'trip' was interesting; your visuals was good, but then you just dropped an ending in our laps that failed.

Hope this helps.
Phil


I did suspect that would be the case with not many people making the string theory relationship. I couldn't figure out a way of escaping death that hadn't already been done. I actually thought for hours. Slept on it even. How can somebody escape death that hasn't already been done before?

All I could think of was the same old shit. Playing a game with death and winning. No matter what game or deal I could think of though, none of them were original enough for me. So in the end I fell upon string theory and that (in some circles) we supposedly have celestial strings attaching us to our physical selves. We'll see this in images depcted of outer body experiences.

Sorry it was lost on you.
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alffy
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 10:42am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot

Well there are people that can hold their breath for up to five minutes. A few seconds is easily managed by most people. Try it.

However, i will concede that i need to write that scene better, indeed INCREASE it to 5 minutes... of course though the viewer will not have to wait the full 5... and neither would they have to wait a full minute in this draft. Obviously, when engaging a little common sense the director can opt to play out the scene whatever way they want. A spec writer's job is to tell the story.


I think this is Phil's point.  You write that the action goes on for a minute and so that is how long it is on screen, which is a long time of nothing much happening.  As for a director 'playing out a scene how he wants', well to some respects yes but you are the writer and you specified that the doctors checks if he's breathing for a minute.  If you think this is too long then why did you write it?

I haven't read over this yet but will do so now as I don't want to be negative having not read the material.  I will leave my thoughts shortly.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

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DustinBowcot
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 10:54am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from alffy


I think this is Phil's point.  You write that the action goes on for a minute and so that is how long it is on screen, which is a long time of nothing much happening.  As for a director 'playing out a scene how he wants', well to some respects yes but you are the writer and you specified that the doctors checks if he's breathing for a minute.  If you think this is too long then why did you write it?

I haven't read over this yet but will do so now as I don't want to be negative having not read the material.  I will leave my thoughts shortly.



If you read what i wrote properly then you would see that I actually now believe a minute isn't long enough... as in too short, not enough time... however at the time of writing I obviously didn't consider that to be the case.

I was merely specifying why I did it in the first place. Doesn't mean I don't understand what he has written... especially if I make a following paragraph conceding that I need to write it better. Which I did.

Although, thanks for taking the time to point this out to me again.
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alffy
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 11:20am Report to Moderator
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Okay Dustin,

SPOILERS!!!

I'll start by saying that I think your margins are off, the text seems too squashed in the middle.  It looks like your left hand margin is too wide.

You'll get some stick for 'we travel' and 'we stop', who's we?  Do you mean the camera?  You need to think of a better way to describe this and maybe decide that you don't need to describe it this way.  I'm guessing the Stagehand knocks on the door so why not say that he walks down the corridor?

Tarquinio winks while he still embraces Scrivens, so who is the wink for?  Scrivens can't see him wink.

I like the Host but you give him no introduction.

Phil noted that this is overwritten and here's a simple example.
Scrivens helps wheel out a door-shaped block of wood that is stood upright on a metal stand.  Two pairs of metal handcuffs are attached to the top of the wooden block.
You could easily cut the to the top of the wooden block at the end.

This may seem picky but if one member of the audience passes out, I wonder if we would notice it in the crowd?  If everyone is seated would she not just slump forward?  If fellow audience members picked her, then maybe we would notice?

I'd maybe use mini slugs when flicking between the STAGE and LIMBO.

I was confused why you changed slugs from STAGE to THEATRE?

The Doctor's dialogue doesn't sound natural at all although it got me thinking; what year is this set?  I pictured an early 1900's with the characters speech but then you throw in the Queen circa 1952 so I'm thinking more modern day.  Then the Commoner shouts about paying a penny so I'm back to the turn of the century.  The two don't quite match.

Okay so I'm done and I'll start by saying the concept is pretty decent but it has two big holes for me.  If Tarquinio has done this many times before, how has no one seen his soul return.  It seems incomprehensible that not once has anyone not kept watching the stage.  Secondly,his act relies on him killing a member of the audience to return.  This time it is 'slightly' excusable, but not really, as it is a loud drunk but what if a young mother entered the stage, would he tell her to sit?

This isn't a disaster but needs some work.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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alffy
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 11:25am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot


If you read what i wrote properly then you would see that I actually now believe a minute isn't long enough... as in too short, not enough time...


This is my point, Dustin.  A minute of nothing happening on screen, other than a doctor checking a man's pulse, is too long, let alone making it five minutes!  If you had the doctor checking Tarquinio while other things happen it would be passable.



Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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DustinBowcot
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 1:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from alffy


This is my point, Dustin.  A minute of nothing happening on screen, other than a doctor checking a man's pulse, is too long, let alone making it five minutes!  If you had the doctor checking Tarquinio while other things happen it would be passable.



I see that I haven't explained myself properly and that you cannot see any way around missing 5 minutes in a film. A simple fade in and out would do it with the doctor looking at his watch. 5 minutes passes in the blink of an eye.



Quoted from alffy

You'll get some stick for 'we travel' and 'we stop', who's we?  Do you mean the camera?  You need to think of a better way to describe this and maybe decide that you don't need to describe it this way.


I've seen it in pro scripts but it is something I've been ironing out of my scripts anyway. All of these shorts were written in a very brief amount of time, actually one a day and I have six or seven altogether.



Quoted from alffy
  I'm guessing the Stagehand knocks on the door so why not say that he walks down the corridor?


Because I don't need to.


Quoted from alffy
Tarquinio winks while he still embraces Scrivens, so who is the wink for?  Scrivens can't see him wink.


It depends how one hugs... although I agree I should make that clearer.


Quoted from alffy
I like the Host but you give him no introduction.


I don't believe he needs one considering he plays only a minor role. I decided to leave it entirely up to the imagination.


Quoted from alffy
Phil noted that this is overwritten and here's a simple example.
Scrivens helps wheel out a door-shaped block of wood that is stood upright on a metal stand.  Two pairs of metal handcuffs are attached to the top of the wooden block.
You could easily cut the to the top of the wooden block at the end.


I don't agree.


Quoted from alffy
This may seem picky but if one member of the audience passes out, I wonder if we would notice it in the crowd?  If everyone is seated would she not just slump forward?  If fellow audience members picked her, then maybe we would notice?


People would stand in shock, but I realise that I should clarify that now.


Quoted from alffy
I'd maybe use mini slugs when flicking between the STAGE and LIMBO.


I only like to use mini's these days if I can introduce them properly. Otherwise it is a full slug... which is the proper way to do it anyway.


Quoted from alffy
I was confused why you changed slugs from STAGE to THEATRE?


Ah, I'll have to look for that. Thanks for alerting me to its existence.


Quoted from alffy
The Doctor's dialogue doesn't sound natural at all although it got me thinking; what year is this set?  I pictured an early 1900's with the characters speech but then you throw in the Queen circa 1952 so I'm thinking more modern day.  Then the Commoner shouts about paying a penny so I'm back to the turn of the century.  The two don't quite match.


Yeah well spotted, as this story developed I imagined it in the victorian era despite the opening where I place it in the 40's. Definitely need to go in and change that.


Quoted from alffy
Okay so I'm done and I'll start by saying the concept is pretty decent but it has two big holes for me.  If Tarquinio has done this many times before, how has no one seen his soul return.  It seems incomprehensible that not once has anyone not kept watching the stage.


Well it's pretty obvious that people don't see souls returning and leaving. I'm not sure why that would need explaining.


Quoted from alffy
Secondly,his act relies on him killing a member of the audience to return.  This time it is 'slightly' excusable, but not really, as it is a loud drunk but what if a young mother entered the stage, would he tell her to sit?


A young mother doesn't do that and that is really down for you to decide afterwards. The story is true to its logline. I make no promises of heroics.

Thank you for your thoughts alffy.
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dogglebe
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 1:57pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
It also seems that you are so desperate for negatives that you need to repeat the same thing three times in three paragraphs. We both know why that is, don't we doggie.


Because you're a pretentious writer who thinks your shit doesn't stink?

Sorry I wasted my time.


Phil

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bert
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 1:58pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
...you cannot see any way around missing 5 minutes in a film. A simple fade in and out would do it...


What??  The doctor is holding the guy's hand and you fade out!?!

Everyone knows what you are really implying is the doctor having sex Tarquinio -- even after he is dead!  You must be some kind of necropheliac and I think that's just sick!!

Anyways, here's hoping that you can take a joke (for those that actually get this ).

Think I will read this tonight if I can find some time.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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DustinBowcot
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 2:36pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bert


What??  The doctor is holding the guy's hand and you fade out!?!

Everyone knows what you are really implying is the doctor having sex Tarquinio -- even after he is dead!  You must be some kind of necropheliac and I think that's just sick!!

Anyways, here's hoping that you can take a joke (for those that actually get this ).

Think I will read this tonight if I can find some time.


Yeah well I hope that the set up is sufficient so that it isn't even considered the doctor has sex with him on stage. If it isn't and it does look like a possibility, please let me know. I wouldn't want people thinking I'm into necrophilia. I would actually end with the doctor looking at his timepiece and then come in with the timepiece showing a 5 minute lapse.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 2:51pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dogglebe


Because you're a pretentious writer who thinks your shit doesn't stink?

Sorry I wasted my time.


Phil



I'm sorry that you wasted your time too. You already know what I think of you, so perhaps it is best that we just ignore each other from now on.
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J.S.
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 4:01pm Report to Moderator
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Dustin,

A couple things I'll mention, apart from whats already mentioned.

But first, to mention something from above. A fade out, fade in, is a cross fade. And I doubt you want to do that. I think you probably want to do is a dissolve. Which is more effective.

I don't like your opening slug. You just say street, night. And then you don't do anything to orient me in trying to think about where the theater is located, and what the street looks like, and what I'm suppose to see. You can be a tad more descriptive instead of focusing straight to the theater.

For some reason your character names are actually appealing to me. With those names, I imagined your characters more as caricatures.

Not liking the melodrama. And 40s melodrama is not the way you depicted it here. This is about 60% more melodramatic than a 40s film. Hint: the crying midget, the winking, the embrace. All happens two closely together.

Unless of course you were going for some kind of comedy like Abbot and Costello or something, Laurel and Hardy. Did you have at least a specific movie in mind?

"gives the audience slight concern " -- Gasps I can imagine. Concern is hard to translate to the screen.

"their female partners
slapping them playfully." -- All of them at once? Or just a few? If just a few, I wouldn't include this.

"Tarquinio takes it and
holds it out with two hands."

You already told us he'll be taking it, so jump to the part where he's holding it.

"Unseen hands turn the wooden block so that Tarquinio
is facing Scrivens." -- Confusing. How are the hands unseen? This made no sense to me.

"EXT. LIMBO"

What's the EXT. for?

Okay, well I lost interest when he got to Limbo. Sorry. It was interesting before that though. Just sluggish with the action lines.

-J.S.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 4:58pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from J.S.
Dustin,

A couple things I'll mention, apart from whats already mentioned.

But first, to mention something from above. A fade out, fade in, is a cross fade. And I doubt you want to do that. I think you probably want to do is a dissolve. Which is more effective.


Thanks, i'll look into the different types of shots available in this situation. The keywords provided will definitely help.


Quoted from J.S.
I don't like your opening slug. You just say street, night. And then you don't do anything to orient me in trying to think about where the theater is located, and what the street looks like, and what I'm suppose to see. You can be a tad more descriptive instead of focusing straight to the theater.


Yeah I suppose a small description of the actual street wouldn't hurt.


Quoted from J.S.
For some reason your character names are actually appealing to me. With those names, I imagined your characters more as caricatures.


Thanks.


Quoted from J.S.
Not liking the melodrama. And 40s melodrama is not the way you depicted it here. This is about 60% more melodramatic than a 40s film. Hint: the crying midget, the winking, the embrace. All happens two closely together.


As I wrote this story i went back to victorian... and if i did a second draft on this I would change that. However, point taken on milking it too much.


Quoted from J.S.
Unless of course you were going for some kind of comedy like Abbot and Costello or something, Laurel and Hardy. Did you have at least a specific movie in mind?


I don't write with specific movies in mind.


Quoted from J.S.
"gives the audience slight concern " -- Gasps I can imagine. Concern is hard to translate to the screen.


Thanks.


Quoted from J.S.
"their female partners
slapping them playfully." -- All of them at once? Or just a few? If just a few, I wouldn't include this.


The ones shown on screen. Not everybody will be with a female partner, so it shouldn't look odd.


Quoted from J.S.
"Tarquinio takes it and
holds it out with two hands."

You already told us he'll be taking it, so jump to the part where he's holding it.


Good point.


Quoted from J.S.
"Unseen hands turn the wooden block so that Tarquinio
is facing Scrivens." -- Confusing. How are the hands unseen? This made no sense to me.


It means that the block turns but we can't see how it happens.


Quoted from J.S.
"EXT. LIMBO"

What's the EXT. for?


Why not?


Quoted from J.S.
Okay, well I lost interest when he got to Limbo. Sorry. It was interesting before that though. Just sluggish with the action lines.

-J.S.


I did label it as supernatural as a warning that something like that will happen. Sorry that you lost interest and thanks for your thoughts.
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J.S.
Posted: April 11th, 2013, 7:39pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot


Why not?



Limbo has an exterior and an interior? I mean, I'm probably the only person here, I ain't embarrassed to say it, that thinks this is outright absurd. Not every slug requires an ext. int. If it's the woods, isn't it obvious it's exterior? Can't that makes sense by you saying it's the woods? It seems nit-picky, but in reality, it's unnecessary, and that's kind of what I try to avoid. Does heaven have an ext. or int.? Does that justification sound mildly reasonable to you?


Quoted from DustinBowcot

I did label it as supernatural as a warning that something like that will happen. Sorry that you lost interest and thanks for your thoughts.


Honestly, I didn't even read the logline. I just went into it because it was something by a writer I haven't read before, so that's why. I got into it. I understand it was meant to be that, it just sort of faded out in interest for me at that point, that's all. Not saying it's bad.

EDIT:

I forgot to make a quick mention of this: "It means that the block turns but we can't see how it happens."

I am assuming you mean this in like a close up, whereas  I was imagining the entire scene more wide. That's why it confused me. I guess you should probably mention that if that's what you want to convey.

EDIT: Oh, and the title was intriguing because the Great Escape is one of my favorite movies

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