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  Author    Jack Flannigan  (currently 3508 views)
Don
Posted: August 21st, 2013, 4:31pm Report to Moderator
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Jack Flannigan by Alex Sarris (Alex_212) - Short, Horror, Suspense - On the far side of Loch Lomond lives a possessed Jack Flannigan, who seeks revenge against the descendants of those that turned his life into a living HELL. - pdf, format


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CoopBazinga
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Hey Alex,

How you been, buddy? All good I hope.

This one isn't bad, more of an "old wise tale" or "urban legend" than an actual story and I could see grandparents telling this tale to scare the children for whatever reason - maybe to keep them away from the loch. At this moment, it's very predictable - I challenge anyone to openly admit that they didn't know where this one was going as soon as the old man started the story but if you didn't, then this line "He takes the descendants of the four boys." was the clincher.

Not saying that's bad and you probably intended it this way, I don't think you were looking to surprise the reader at the end but if you was then I try to be more subtle in the old man's dialogue.

I think you could further enhance the Jack Flannigan back-story by making it more compelling or agonizing - I mean, at the moment he kills the four Children (or teens?) and their descendants for throwing a few pesky rocks which just comes off a little trivial to me. What if the kids fathers inadvertently (or knowingly) kill Jack's family and then he goes into the murky loch to exact revenge only to disappear and this is where the legend starts. I apologize if this comes out like I'm completely changing the idea you had, it's your story, but I think it would be more merited if these children have some meaning to death of his family... just a thought. I also want to mention that the logline really didn't help - "who seeks revenge against the descendants of those that (turned his life into a living HELL.)" I was expecting them to do more I guess.

Also be careful about how he's described, lines like "He was a fair man who kept to himself." made his reaction to the children that more unbelievable to me. Maybe just adding "He was (once) a fair man who kept to himself" But I think the dialogue could be looked at this junction to enhance an imagine of a despondent man who strives to see his family again. Again, lines like "seen on many occasions enjoyin’ a pipe and gazin’ across the waters." had me thinking of a bushy beard man content with life.

I also didn't understand the time change at the beginning? Why did the story move forward 32 years? I thought this was showing the old man rowing towards William's house but that's impossible with the time change. Was it important to show the row boat for half of that opening page? I mean, there is more than enough of the row boat, foggy loch and so on in the rest of the story. That also meant the quick flash of the lit candle went right over my head - didn't understand its relevance?

Writing wise, this is okay - could be tightened up in areas, maybe a few grammar issues but I'm hardly the expert in this area. I would watch out for repetitiveness in the action as it's more recognizable over six pages but on the whole it read fast.

Not bad but I think it has potential to be better - add a few pages, flesh out Jack Flannigan's back-story and maybe introduce William before he meets the old man - I think William needs more, I know he's only 10 but he's very passive at the moment.  What if it's his birthday and he gets told this tale earlier - something about all the descendants go missing when they turn the same age as the teens which obviously just happens to be his age now. Just some different angles to think about.

Best of luck with it, mate.

Steve
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Alex_212
Posted: August 22nd, 2013, 3:04am Report to Moderator
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Hey Steve,

Thanks for your detailed reply as well as being the first to respond.

I wrote this as an entry to the Writer Arena Challenge #4 and came in runner up along side of Dena.

I got some amazing feedback on Writer Arena and thought I would share the script on SS in the hope that a few readers enjoy it.

I did enjoy writing this and have not planned to do a great deal with it other than posting it here and filing a copy for future reference. I am soooooo busy as I have just finished two features and a few episodes of a sitcom so not a lot of time for much else.

The 30 year timeframe flips from the happenings on the Loch to William one of the descendants as Jack comes looking for.

Thanks for the post and your great feedback and we should catch up for a coffee or three real soon !!!!!

Regards Alex


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Dreamscale
Posted: August 22nd, 2013, 9:51am Report to Moderator
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Gave this a read, Alex.  Sorry to say, but the writing is lacking in many respects.  The story is as well, but as Coop said, I agree there is potential.

Your Slug work is poor.  Check it out.  You have 3 unique Slugs within the entire script - LOCH LOMMOND, BEDROOM, and LOCH LOMMOND - HOUSE.  If you read carefully, you'll see these 3 Slugs don't really fit every scene very well.  They're also not very descriptive, and because of that, it's tough to really see much here.

Your writing is awkward and repetitive throughout. Read carefully and see how often you repeat your Slug in your first line beneath it.  Numerous sentences and passages contain multiple subjects, which makes it very hard to know exactly who or what you're writing about.  Check out how often you use words like "murky", "night", etc.  Many of your sentences just aren't written correctly and read very awkwardly.

You also have several very odd typos, misspellings, and grammar errors.  And, why are there only 2 named characters?  Kind of odd, IMO.

Story-wise, it's OK and as I said earlier, I do see potential, if for no other reason, the unique setting alone gives this potential.

BUT, I think you missed the boat by painting your Antag, Jack, as a nice normal guy.  Like Coop, I just don't see what happeend to set him off and make him turn into some kind of demon or whatever.  Just doesn't work as told.

Also, the opening with the 32 year leap doesn't make any sense.

Finally, I don't see the sense in the scene with William and the "Old Man", who's obviously mis-labeled, because he's clearly Jack Flannigan.  William is in bed reading, and suddenly, this old man appears in a rocking chair?  WTF?  Did I miss something or misread?

Needs some work, but it could be a fun little horror script.

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KevinLenihan
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I liked the story, Alex. Some specific notes.

1) this slug...EXT. LOCH LOMOND - HOUSE - DAY

Because you have several scenes on the loch, maybe rethink this one for clarity. Maybe even HOUSE ON THE LOCH - DAY  would be clearer.

2)"A shadow lurks and grips the oars"

Which is it, lurking or paddling? Lurking seems to be the opposite of moving, unless I am mistaken. Caused me to reread.

3) pg3 less confusing if the boy asks "did the devil catch 'em?"

These are minor points, just a bit of tweaking. Good work.

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Alex_212
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Quoted from KevinLenihan
I liked the story, Alex. Some specific notes.

1) this slug...EXT. LOCH LOMOND - HOUSE - DAY

Because you have several scenes on the loch, maybe rethink this one for clarity. Maybe even HOUSE ON THE LOCH - DAY  would be clearer.

2)"A shadow lurks and grips the oars"

Which is it, lurking or paddling? Lurking seems to be the opposite of moving, unless I am mistaken. Caused me to reread.

3) pg3 less confusing if the boy asks "did the devil catch 'em?"

These are minor points, just a bit of tweaking. Good work.




Hey KevinL and thanks for the read and the post.

You prompted me to look up the definition of "Lurks" and I found this:-
Be or remain hidden so as to wait in ambush for someone or something: "a killer lurked in the darkness".
"shadow lurks and grips the oars" I feel he can be lurking and holding something at the same time, like gripping the oars?
If a killer lurks in the darkness, wouldn't he be holding a gun or similar ?

Once again thanks for your read and comments and glad you liked the story.

Alex



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Alex_212
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Gave this a read, Alex.  Sorry to say, but the writing is lacking in many respects.  The story is as well, but as Coop said, I agree there is potential.

Your Slug work is poor.  Check it out.  You have 3 unique Slugs within the entire script - LOCH LOMMOND, BEDROOM, and LOCH LOMMOND - HOUSE.  If you read carefully, you'll see these 3 Slugs don't really fit every scene very well.  They're also not very descriptive, and because of that, it's tough to really see much here.

Your writing is awkward and repetitive throughout. Read carefully and see how often you repeat your Slug in your first line beneath it.  Numerous sentences and passages contain multiple subjects, which makes it very hard to know exactly who or what you're writing about.  Check out how often you use words like "murky", "night", etc.  Many of your sentences just aren't written correctly and read very awkwardly.

You also have several very odd typos, misspellings, and grammar errors.  And, why are there only 2 named characters?  Kind of odd, IMO.

Story-wise, it's OK and as I said earlier, I do see potential, if for no other reason, the unique setting alone gives this potential.

BUT, I think you missed the boat by painting your Antag, Jack, as a nice normal guy.  Like Coop, I just don't see what happeend to set him off and make him turn into some kind of demon or whatever.  Just doesn't work as told.

Also, the opening with the 32 year leap doesn't make any sense.

Finally, I don't see the sense in the scene with William and the "Old Man", who's obviously mis-labeled, because he's clearly Jack Flannigan.  William is in bed reading, and suddenly, this old man appears in a rocking chair?  WTF?  Did I miss something or misread?

Needs some work, but it could be a fun little horror script.


Thanks for your comments Jeff and taking the time to do a read though I have already received some amazing feedback and would have to disagree with you on a number of things you have mentioned.

I guess screenplays are subjective and we can't all like the same thing.

"Your writing is awkward" never heard this before as I have had some great feedback from some very talented screenwriters with respect to the quality of the writing. Sure there may be a few things that others may do differently though we are all individually and have different perceptions.

You mention "You also have several very odd typos, misspellings, and grammar errors.  And, why are there only 2 named characters?  Kind of odd, IMO."
Well there are two named characters because they are the main characters and extra's don't really justify getting a name for the small part they play. The Old-Man remains as Old-Man because giving him the name "Jack Flannigan" would not only make it confusing it would also give the story away.
  
Also if you make a statement like "Very odd typos, misspellings and grammar errors". A statement like that is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. Substantiate your claim and specify where the "Odd Typos" exist !!!! So others can respond to these.

Furthermore, I would have to say that a lot of this type of negativity is one of the reasons why I and others do not spend a lot of time on SS anymore. I was always encouraging in my feedback in order to inspire others and feel if you keep knocking someone down, eventually they will either leave or knock back.

Thanks for taking the time to do a read and I am sure you will be responding in due course.

Regards Alex




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KevinLenihan
Posted: August 22nd, 2013, 8:34pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Alex

But you have the boat cutting through the water. He is rowing. That is not lurking. If he were sitting in his boat silently in the shadows, that would be lurking. I could be wrong, but I see lurking as involving little or no motion. It's more of a waiting. That's what waiting in ambush is...waiting.
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Alex_212
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Thanks Kevin,

I'll go back and take a look. Appreciated.

Regards Alex


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spesh2k
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Hey Alex,

So, this was nice little, old-time-y ghost tale.

A few things...

First paragraph of description, you mention that it's a dark and still night when you already have night in the SLUG. And I'm not sure what kind of visual the QUICKFLASH was supposed to give me. I see a candle in the window, but not sure what pathway it lights... is the boat in the background at shore?


Quoted Text
INT. BEDROOM - NIGHT
William stares at the Old-Man, frightened.

OLD-MAN
The rumors say... His family was
taken by the loch, and this made
him bitter.

William’s eyes wide open.

OLD-MAN
Twas also said... That when he went
fishin’ in the loch, he could see
the reflections of his family in
the dark and murky waters. Until
one day....


It felt like you had a reaction (maybe you meant William's eyes widen?) just to break up a big dialogue block. But I think you can probably fit all that dialogue in one block.

Also, there's no need to keep mentioning that a character speaks w/ a Scottish accent.

And with the exception of quite a few orphaned words, this was pretty well written overall.

The twist didn't really get me, though. While the old man was telling the story, I felt like the SHADOW in the boat was moving to shore/was at shore at the same time.

So when it's revealed that the old man is actually Jack Flannigan (wouldn't there be some resemblance?), it didn't feel right. Maybe if you hid old man's face in the shadows...

And why were the children throwing rocks at Jack Flannigan? Is he some kind of old coot that all the town's kids throw rocks at or something? Is it because of his wife and kids? Was he to blame for their death? Those kids seemed to have traveled in boat specifically to throw rocks at this guy.

Overall, this was well written, but the legend should be a bit more clear as to why Jack Flannigan's ghost does this.

-- Michael


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Alex_212
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Quoted from spesh2k
Hey Alex,

So, this was nice little, old-time-y ghost tale.

A few things...

First paragraph of description, you mention that it's a dark and still night when you already have night in the SLUG. And I'm not sure what kind of visual the QUICKFLASH was supposed to give me. I see a candle in the window, but not sure what pathway it lights... is the boat in the background at shore?



It felt like you had a reaction (maybe you meant William's eyes widen?) just to break up a big dialogue block. But I think you can probably fit all that dialogue in one block.

Also, there's no need to keep mentioning that a character speaks w/ a Scottish accent.

And with the exception of quite a few orphaned words, this was pretty well written overall.

The twist didn't really get me, though. While the old man was telling the story, I felt like the SHADOW in the boat was moving to shore/was at shore at the same time.

So when it's revealed that the old man is actually Jack Flannigan (wouldn't there be some resemblance?), it didn't feel right. Maybe if you hid old man's face in the shadows...

And why were the children throwing rocks at Jack Flannigan? Is he some kind of old coot that all the town's kids throw rocks at or something? Is it because of his wife and kids? Was he to blame for their death? Those kids seemed to have traveled in boat specifically to throw rocks at this guy.

Overall, this was well written, but the legend should be a bit more clear as to why Jack Flannigan's ghost does this.

-- Michael


Thanks Michael,

Some great points raised here and I will take them all into account should I do a rewrite once I complete my current projects.

Glad you enjoyed the read and thanks for your time.

Regards Alex


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Pale Yellow
Posted: August 23rd, 2013, 12:29am Report to Moderator
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Enjoyed reading this on WA Alex...and I'm happy to share a spot with you!

Good job.
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Quoted from Pale Yellow
Enjoyed reading this on WA Alex...and I'm happy to share a spot with you!

Good job.


Thanks Dena. You and I buddy !!!!

LUV YA ???

PS. Have a Beer for my while you're on holidays !!!!


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Dreamscale
Posted: August 23rd, 2013, 11:01am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Alex_212
...though I have already received some amazing feedback and would have to disagree with you on a number of things you have mentioned.


Really?  Alex, I say this every now and then, but think it often - it amazes me when I hear responses such as this.

I agree 100% that each adn every writer needs to decide what to listen to and what not to, but don't think for a second that just because you've recieved "amazing feedback from very talented writers" that anything new you hear that they didn't say, see, or realize, isn't correct.

I'm just trying to help, and if you don't want that help or think your script is beautifully and flwlessly written, I apologize for jumping in.


Quoted from Alex_212
I guess screenplays are subjective and we can't all like the same thing.


Uhhh...yeah.  Good guess.


Quoted from Alex_212
"Your writing is awkward" never heard this before as I have had some great feedback from some very talented screenwriters with respect to the quality of the writing. Sure there may be a few things that others may do differently though we are all individually and have different perceptions.


Alex, c'mon man.  Seriously?  You've never heard that your writing is awkward?  Never?  I bet if you go back to any thread on SS invovling a script of yours, you'll see at least 1 comment about awkward writing...and if you don't, then these "very talented" writers" that are leaving you feedback are completely missing the boat.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's not meant to put you down or hurt your feeelings, it's meant to help you see the error of your ways.  If you honestly reread this and don't see many, many examples of very awkward writing, then I guess I'm rather speachless.



Quoted from Alex_212
You mention "You also have several very odd typos, misspellings, and grammar errors.  And, why are there only 2 named characters?  Kind of odd, IMO."

Well there are two named characters because they are the main characters and extra's don't really justify getting a name for the small part they play. The Old-Man remains as Old-Man because giving him the name "Jack Flannigan" would not only make it confusing it would also give the story away.


"Extras"?  If that's how you feel, Alex, it's your decision to make.

Giving Jack Flannigan his actual name would make it confusing?  How about the other way around?  You are attemtping to hide this character's identity and you're doing a very poor job of it.  In a filmed version, this wouldn't remotely work because it would be obvious this "Old-Man" is Jack Flannigan.
  

Quoted from Alex_212
Also if you make a statement like "Very odd typos, misspellings and grammar errors". A statement like that is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. Substantiate your claim and specify where the "Odd Typos" exist !!!! So others can respond to these.


Really?  Alex, it's a 5 1/2 page script...are you saying there aren't any?  How about the most used and obvious - "Old-Man".  What's with the hyphen?  You use both bow and stern to describe the font of a boat.  "foetal"  "cold head" etc, etc, etc.  There's alot more, but based on your dismissive attuitude, why would I want to spend more time highlighting them?


Quoted from Alex_212
Furthermore, I would have to say that a lot of this type of negativity is one of the reasons why I and others do not spend a lot of time on SS anymore. I was always encouraging in my feedback in order to inspire others and feel if you keep knocking someone down, eventually they will either leave or knock back.


Alex, I'm sorry if you take my feedback as being negative.  Being encouraging in your feedback is fine, as long as it's also honest and realistic.  No one is being knocked down - I'm merely trying to point things out to you that noo one else is obviously telling you.

You can't imagine how majy times I've come acros someone doing something completely incorrectly and when I ask why they're doing it that way, they say, they thought it was correct and no one ever told them differently.  If you don't knnow, you don't knnow.  Period.  I want peeps to know and I want them to be better for it.

If you don't want to know anything that remotely negative or not great, keep getting that amazing feedback from those very talented writers and see where it takes you.

PS - Could you please address the 32 year jump in time and how it makes any sense within this script? Also, Jack is intro'd as being 43 years old (in what is most likely an unlabeled FLASHBACK).  The "Old-Man" is 63 years old and William is 10 in 1868.  Does any of this work out and make sense?

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Quoted from Dreamscale

Really?  Alex, I say this every now and then, but think it often - it amazes me when I hear responses such as this.

I agree 100% that each adn every writer needs to decide what to listen to and what not to, but don't think for a second that just because you've recieved "amazing feedback from very talented writers" that anything new you hear that they didn't say, see, or realize, isn't correct.

I'm just trying to help, and if you don't want that help or think your script is beautifully and flwlessly written, I apologize for jumping in.


Hey Jeff I never said my script was flawless and never said it didn't have it's share of problems.

I came second along side of Dena in the WA challenge and did get comments like Kudos and Excellent. Just stating a fact here.



Quoted from Dreamscale

Alex, c'mon man.  Seriously?  You've never heard that your writing is awkward?  Never?  I bet if you go back to any thread on SS invovling a script of yours, you'll see at least 1 comment about awkward writing...and if you don't, then these "very talented" writers" that are leaving you feedback are completely missing the boat.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's not meant to put you down or hurt your feeelings, it's meant to help you see the error of your ways.  If you honestly reread this and don't see many, many examples of very awkward writing, then I guess I'm rather speachless.


We are not talking about previous screenplays, we are discussing this one.

My writing has come a long way in my time on SS and there is no way that the writing in this script is awkward. Either state where you feel it is awkward or retract your unjustified statement.



Quoted from Dreamscale

"Extras"?  If that's how you feel, Alex, it's your decision to make.


Extras !! We are talking about a group of 4 boys and a Lady who knocks on a door at the end. If you had a screenplay with a gathering of people would you name all 43 of them? Really Jeff !!



Quoted from Dreamscale

Giving Jack Flannigan his actual name would make it confusing?  How about the other way around?  You are attemtping to hide this character's identity and you're doing a very poor job of it.  In a filmed version, this wouldn't remotely work because it would be obvious this "Old-Man" is Jack Flannigan.


I do realize that it is obvious that the Old-Man is Jack Flannigan and really didn't want to confuse things further by stating that. I do feel it works that way and don't see any need to change it. iMHO.



Quoted from Dreamscale

Really?  Alex, it's a 5 1/2 page script...are you saying there aren't any?  How about the most used and obvious - "Old-Man".  What's with the hyphen?  You use both bow and stern to describe the font of a boat.  "foetal"  "cold head" etc, etc, etc.  There's alot more, but based on your dismissive attuitude, why would I want to spend more time highlighting them?


I never said there wasn't any mistakes, you implied it. All I said the writing was not awkward as you have stated it to be.

If you know anything about row boats. A rower faces the back of the boat as he rows. That's the stern. Would you place the boy at the bow of the boat so he is behind you ? It is just common sense and was done intentionally.


Quoted from Dreamscale

Alex, I'm sorry if you take my feedback as being negative.


Jeff I feel you have built yourself a reputation on SS. The point is not me receiving negative feedback the point is when someone is blatantly wrong and they know it.


Quoted from Dreamscale

You can't imagine how majy times I've come acros someone doing something completely incorrectly and when I ask why they're doing it that way, they say, they thought it was correct and no one ever told them differently.  If you don't knnow, you don't knnow.  Period.  I want peeps to know and I want them to be better for it.


I know what you mean, I have read your post.

By the way Jeff your writing here is vary awkward not to mention the number of typos and spelling mistakes.


Quoted from Dreamscale

If you don't want to know anything that remotely negative or not great, keep getting that amazing feedback from those very talented writers and see where it takes you.


Seriously Jeff, I find your attitude is appalling. I have received both good and bad feedback in the past and have thick enough skin to take it.

Generally when the majority agree then that is unanimous and I follow a general consensus.

When it comes from someone who is downright mean and cannot substantiate claims like awkward writing, then I really do not have time for their games.

Have you ever wondered why many newbies come to SS and vary rarely remain ???

Thanks for your feedback Jeff and taking the time to do a read.


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