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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Five Days Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: May 2nd, 2015, 8:28am Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Five Days by Keelan Sumner - Short, Drama - Man and Boy meet continuously in the same place for 5 days. This is what happens. 6 pages - pdf, format


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DanC
Posted: May 3rd, 2015, 3:11pm Report to Moderator
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I'm sorry, but, I can't read this.  This has nothing to do with being anti-gay.  I'm for gay marriage and I'm not gay, but, this is about a boy and a man, and I can't condone pedophilia in any way.  

Perhaps someone else can critique this, but, IMO, I find harming children to be reprehensible.


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

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DS
Posted: May 3rd, 2015, 3:54pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DanC
I'm sorry, but, I can't read this.  This has nothing to do with being anti-gay.  I'm for gay marriage and I'm not gay, but, this is about a boy and a man, and I can't condone pedophilia in any way.  

Perhaps someone else can critique this, but, IMO, I find harming children to be reprehensible.


I don't think the idea behind here is as bad as it looks, I imagine the author had a boy somewhere around 18 in mind. Probably just a perfect example of why characters should be given an age -- or to at least consider context before naming one of them boy, lol.
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TonyDionisio
Posted: May 3rd, 2015, 4:15pm Report to Moderator
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Damnit, get to the point!

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How about the suggestive rape involved? Did he not mean that also?
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AnthonyCawood
Posted: May 3rd, 2015, 4:49pm Report to Moderator
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I think we might be confusing reality with movie scripts...

Peadophilia and Rape are reprehensible, and illegal acts, clearly.

But that doesn't mean that they are subjects that should never be tackled by writers.

If the subjects are handled effectively then they can create movies like The Accused, Doubt, Lolita, Hard Candy, Irreversible etc. As writers we can create challenging and powerful scripts around these and other 'difficult' subjects, why wouldn't we aspire to such lofty goals?

In the case of this particular drama, I think DS is correct, the Boy is older, his dialogue certainly seems to indicate so, and there's an indie drama feel to this that could work if some of the ambiguities are resolved.


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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DanC
Posted: May 3rd, 2015, 6:57pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from AnthonyCawood
I think we might be confusing reality with movie scripts...

Peadophilia and Rape are reprehensible, and illegal acts, clearly.

But that doesn't mean that they are subjects that should never be tackled by writers.

If the subjects are handled effectively then they can create movies like The Accused, Doubt, Lolita, Hard Candy, Irreversible etc. As writers we can create challenging and powerful scripts around these and other 'difficult' subjects, why wouldn't we aspire to such lofty goals?

In the case of this particular drama, I think DS is correct, the Boy is older, his dialogue certainly seems to indicate so, and there's an indie drama feel to this that could work if some of the ambiguities are resolved.



But, we also have a responsibility to the public too.  Yes, we tackle taboos.  Silence of the lambs was a truly horrific story.  There are plenty other stories that have horrific ideas in them.

But, in the beginning of this story, you have a character named BOY giving a MAN  a BJ.  I read that someone considered the boy to be 18, then he isn't a BOY.  He's a young man.  

Add to that the fact that I can't ever recall a pedophile relationship being carried out in such detail as what is suggested here that I think it goes into being reckless at least and offensive to even illegal at worst.  IMO, pedophilia is one sin that you don't portray in a positive light, and at least the first page was all about the older man abusing the boy.  

Remember one very important thing:  People emulate what they see in the movies.  Right or wrong, it's true.  People do see things in movies and copy them.  I've seen it several times over.  I think Natural Born killers had a scene removed for that reason.

Hell, South park got sued b/c kids named Kenny were killing themselves expecting to come back, like Kenny did on the show.  One kid killed himself b/c he felt that the word Kenny was bad and he should die, like Kenny did on the show.

Lets not get into music and all the satanic crap.

I won't even get into the satanic TV crap some stations talk about when they talk about TV (like South Park).

Bevis and butthead and that issue with Fire.

Lastly, anyone remember a movie called "The Program?"  I bet you don't.  But, if you are old enough, you will remember the fall out from it.  In the movie, to prove you were tough, you had to lie down on the street in the dark and let cars get close to you.  As you can imagine, people did that in real life and they died.  I know lawsuits were filed against the movie for this and that scene ended up being taken out.  

And I know of a terrible event that happened in one of the faces of death knockoffs.  Someone sent them a "redone" copy of 2000 maniacs (the 60's since this took place in the late 80's).  It was released as a movie and the bodies of those people turned up dead in the Hollywood mountains.  That footage was taken as evidence.  And those people MIGHT still be alive if stories like Faces of Death and 8MM (which is one of my favorite movies b/c it's so gritty, but, even then, they were afraid of copycat thrill seekers doing snuff films for real) were popular.  Why do you think there hasn't been a movie of that sort released to the public in decades?  No one wants to be responsible for what idiotic humans do.

That's my soapbox.  Sorry, but, we as filmmakers do have a responsibility and pedophilia should never be shown in a positive light.  I couldn't even get past page 1.  However, I will try to reread it as if the kid was 18, but, I think we really need to hear from the writer on this.


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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DanC
Posted: May 3rd, 2015, 7:02pm Report to Moderator
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I am reading it right now, just to be fair, and so far, I don't see how this boy is anywhere close to 18.  Not even close.

page 3 a typo for your should be you're.

The man berates him when he calls him an inexperienced cock whore.  Again, an 18 year old might be experienced.  

I can't really say much more then I said.  I did finish it, it's pretty bad...  

That's my opinion.  To me, the kid seems at most 16.  But, 16 isn't a boy either and 16 would still be illegal, hence the pedophilia comment stands.


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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Matthew Adiotomre
Posted: May 3rd, 2015, 9:41pm Report to Moderator
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I've got to ask. What inspired you to write this? It comes off more as a twisted fantasy than an attempt to write a screenplay worth reading.


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LC
Posted: May 3rd, 2015, 11:37pm Report to Moderator
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To the author: I'm wondering if you are of non-english speaking background. Regardless you have a lot of typos and errors, lack of punctuation etc. There are also no contact details so if you actually wanted this picked up by a producer they'd have trouble getting in touch with you.

Onto story: Over the Five Days it appears this is a story about the dynamics and switching power plays between BOY and MAN.

On thing: I never got the feeling the BOY (and I use that word loosely) was defenseless or innocent, just that he is a youngish man who recognizes the power he has over the MAN.

If the BOY was named YOUNG MAN it would make a big difference to your story and clearly as to how readers are interpreting it. I think people are reacting to him being taken advantage of - I think Tony even mentioned 'rape'. So writer, give BOY an age at the very least, to prevent this type of reaction. But also to clarify the actual story. The age of this BOY determines the story, really to some degree.

I deduced with all the chopping and changing in terms of powerplay that this is supposed to be about the BOY evolving but overall I was left thinking the author couldn't quite decide which story he was telling - the MAN'S or the BOY's.

There are a lot of conflicting story threads.
Big case in point - the candles.   That just didn't fit to me.

MAN
As the only person to ever have
intimately know you, your (you're) just an
inexperienced cock whore.

That (above) implies this is the BOY'S first sexual experience, but I'm still not convinced. And then BOY takes a phone call directly after, implying something else all together - perhaps he has another date? Or what, he's being called late home for dinner?

Like I said, it appears your idea is to detail over the five days the evolving in confidence of the BOY because the tables are turned - as with this dialogue:

MAN
I want you.
BOY
But, I don’t want all of you.

BOY
I take what I want. Your (you're) what I
want.

The BOY echoes the same sentiment/same lines, the MAN voiced earlier, implying once again a full circle and that now the BOY has the power where originally the MAN appeared to be calling the shots.

'A turgid mist'? That's some mist.  

The reference to Blue Valentine. Okay, we had the BOY spreading candles about implying a deeper more romantic tryst, and at some point the MAN suggests the BOY watch this movie which is all about 'loss of love'.

So, MAN is predominantly on the backfoot in this story, not only conflicted with his sexuality but seeking emotional attachment. I think this is MAN'S first experience at an illicit homosexual dalliance - not just (if it is that) BOY'S. Why, otherwise, does he get physically sick at one point. It doesn't appear to imply any kind of guilt at BOY being underage and indeed at no point does he ever mention the BOY'S age or the fact he shouldn't be doing what he's doing. He is, on the one hand, initiator and presumably teacher, but also vulnerable to whether the BOY continues to want him and he's at the mercy of his own conflicting desires.

The BOY controls what happens in the end:

BOY
I take what I want. I want you, but
I don’t want all of you. You got
connected
so now we’re done!

'You got connected' implies that he gave the MAN what he was seeking - sex with another male for the first time. I don't think this BOY is anywhere near as innocent as he first appears to be and once again, I doubt he is just a BOY:

MAN
What’s it like to have everything
you want.
BOY
You’d have to ask someone who
knows.

Is BOY just being rude and slighting the guy, or does that last line indicate someone who has been around the block once before and who is a little jaded. I dunno, see you've confused me in the end.

The actual story might not be too bad if you give the BOY an age consistent with being of CONSENT and clarify some of the storyline.

If you want to tell a story of an underage BOY being taken advantage of by a MAN, then that's another story if you ask me. You'll no doubt polarize a lot of readers but that comes with the territory and subject matter.

Either way, the important thing in my opinion, considering I almost just wrote an essay of a response, is please be clear with your story.



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LC  -  May 4th, 2015, 12:12am
Correction.
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DS
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Interesting discussion. This is why I like these boards. My follow-up two cents:

I agree that boy is hardly the best name to name the character if he's as old as I interpreted it from reading the script. People even call 20-year-olds boys sometimes, it happens. I honestly doubt the idea here was that the boy was 12. I'm inclined to believe that the main controversy here is caused by poor character naming and leaving out the age.

I'm with LC. The way I saw it this was about mutual power play. Both sides were willingly using each other, to a point at least -- looks like the man actually gained feelings. The appropriateness of it all can be open to discussion, sure, but using the word pedophilia is a stretch if you ask me. The same for illegality, age of consent varies. Even if dramatic license is put aside, my point is that we don't know what the author had in mind and saying that they're showing pedophilia in a positive light is probably jumping the gun.

I won't get into rest of what I thought about the script, but I'll second the necessity for clarity for the ages. If someone on these boards ever asks why characters should be given an age, I think this is now the go-to thread.

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DS  -  May 4th, 2015, 5:59am
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LC
Posted: May 4th, 2015, 7:43am Report to Moderator
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Well said, DS.

Let's hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears.


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DanC
Posted: May 4th, 2015, 9:26am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DS
Interesting discussion. This is why I like these boards. My follow-up two cents:

I agree that boy is hardly the best name to name the character if he's as old as I interpreted it from reading the script. People even call 20-year-olds boys sometimes, it happens. I honestly doubt the idea here was that the boy was 12. I'm inclined to believe that the main controversy here is caused by poor character naming and leaving out the age.

I'm with LC. The way I saw it this was about mutual power play. Both sides were willingly using each other, to a point at least -- looks like the man actually gained feelings. The appropriateness of it all can be open to discussion, sure, but using the word pedophilia is a stretch if you ask me. The same for illegality, age of consent varies. Even if dramatic license is put aside, my point is that we don't know what the author had in mind and saying that they're showing pedophilia in a positive light is probably jumping the gun.

I won't get into rest of what I thought about the script, but I'll second the necessity for clarity for the ages. If someone on these boards ever asks why characters should be given an age, I think this is now the go-to thread.


I couldn't agree more.  I guess when I saw boy, I immediately pictured a boy, a child being conned into feelings of love.  If anything, I think the boy might be a psychopath...

But, yes, ages are vital especially with how pedophiles ruin lives and this screenplay doesn't show a pedophile in a negative light, if he is indeed that.

And by illegal, I meant if this was a boy and it really did happen.  I know some rappers have gone to jail because they rapped about crimes and included elements of the crime that the cops kept secret.  It's happened a number of times.

But, yes, the boy needs an age.


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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DS
Posted: May 4th, 2015, 12:44pm Report to Moderator
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Mhm. Be interesting to see whether the author will jump in here. Btw,


Quoted from DanC

And by illegal, I meant if this was a boy and it really did happen.  I know some rappers have gone to jail because they rapped about crimes and included elements of the crime that the cops kept secret.  It's happened a number of times.


My comment on the illegality was meant towards this line:


Quoted from DanC


... But, 16 isn't a boy either and 16 would still be illegal...


... and ages of consent varying between countries.
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