IMPORTANT Question for you guys, and one that is apparently less common than I would have ever thought. This is regarding protecting a writer/producer team from "the sharks" in the studio system.

I am a producer, and my close friend is a writer. We came up with an idea together, and agreed that he would write it, and I would produce it.  Now we are starting to send out the material, and have immediately discovered that we need to legally solidify my involvment in order to protect me. We are BOTH taking STORY BY credit, and he is taking WRITTEN BY credit. I am going to ask for/demand a signifcant producer credit (Exec Producer).  

We have been advised from an attorney friend that since I have a STORY BY, I am "covered" legally (eg from anyone who buys or options the project from screwing me out of a reasonable producer credit/fee of my request) since I innately co-hold the underlying rights to the project due to the 'story by' credit. Eg if anyone wants this script, they MUST deal with the writer and I, and make us BOTH "happy" so to speak.

My question: does this hold legally?  The only other way we know to protect me, is for me to OPTION the script from the writer - but this was met with rolled eyes from the attorney friend since I already have a Story By credit... his arguement being the point of Optioning the script is to own the underlying rights to the project, and I already have that with my Story By credit.

Thanks in advance for your wisdom!!!
~MMH

If you have the script all written and in its best form, you should get it registered with the WGA so that it is legally yours. You can do it on the writers guild site (but it costs $30, I think) Thats the only thing I can think of.

Apolgoies for not mentioning that aspect, but yes, we have the material registered with WGAw.
~MMH

oh. Then, uhmmmmm. I would make them sign contracts. I dont know if you can do that or not, but it sounds like a good idea (and you'd have to meet in person). Make them sign a contract saying they recognize it as your work---and if they dont comply.....

1. Kill them (extreme)
2. Sue them (the resonable choice)

Thats all I got, for now.

You can copyrite anything for free really... Go to your local library of congress and ask for the forms and they'll give you up to 10 of them for nothing.

Fill them out properly and send them in.  About 4 to 6 weeks later you will receive a certificate of ownership.

Remember that a name in most cases cannot be copyrited or protected underlaw.

Also, you can just higher an attorney or get an agent who is also a copyrite attorney... alot of them are nowadays. They'll take care of all that for you.

Balt...

you need to retain an attorney

All I want to do is sell this script.  I always figured it would be  best to register it with the WGA so no one can rip me off but I recently heard that if you sell it after you register if you have to go though a lot of trouble to change owners or something?   Is that true?  And what is better, registering it with WGA or the Copyright office?  

Just get a copyrite agent/attorney... Pork the WGA, you don't need it and they don't give two shakes what you write or do with your screenplay.  They just want your 20 bucks and will file it in their 300 acre lot, somewhere under millions of other screenplays i'm sure.

When I stopped believing in the WGA was when they started taking script submissions on-line.  Thru E-mail and zip file.  You know why?  To save space!  Oh, they'll still take your 20 bucks, but for what...?  To open your e-mail?  LOL!

The WGA is only a good source of pay if you are in the union and a memeber of them.  If you are a hack nobody with a big idea... they don't want nothing to do with you and that is prooven with there doings.  

Trust me, if you have a "BIG" idea it'll find it's home, just be pateint and be real.  You won't become a millionare over night -- Well, by & large anyway.  

Good luck on any and everything that you do though.

J.D.

Okay, so no WGA but what about the Copyright Office?  They accept submissions online too.  Are they okay?

I'm not here to tell you how to spend "YOUR" money.  I don't wanna come off like I know everything in the world and that my tongue speaks the 100% cold hard facts.

I just don't agree with the WGA and it's doings anymore.  I think that for them to charge you 20 bucks to register your work online... It's a scam!  So what, you have it registered with the WGA... big deal!  How do you know you have it registered,  Cause you have a receipt saying so?  

Yeah, whatever.  You could have more of a shot with an attorney than anything.  Hell, you can send your screenplay to yourself in a folder and ask for a recipt. That is one way of copyrite protection.  This will hold up in court, as long as you've got dates and doc's of your work and writing times.

You can log your screenplays on-line actually.  Your computers will tell you that your work is your work.  So your work is ever stolen and the dates are of question... take your tower to court and have them run a system log of your writing and software.   Then they'll see who the real writer is, if this was to occur.

I mean everybody wants a WGA registered screenplay, but I ask for what?  Why?  You don't get anything out of it.  No Tom Cruise goes by the WGA looking for the next screenplay he wants to play in and no STEVE SPEILBERG goes there looking for the next screenplay he wants to direct.

Remember that...

J.D.

The easiest and smartest way to copyright a script is through the WGA.  The service they offer is just $20 bucks as stated above (much much less than getting a lawyer) and their service is specifically for screenplays, it takes just minutes.  

I'm not sure why the other poster would advise against it, they are the industry standard for all screenwriting professionals.

I've never heard that a copyright makes a sale more difficult, in fact I would think it's just the opposite.  Owning a copyright insures the buyer that you have the legal right to sell it and should speed the process.  

That being said my advice is to save your money.  Don't bother with registration unless you have received a great deal of serious, legitimate interest.  The incredibly long odds of actually selling a screenplay are surpassed only by the even longer odds of your screenplay being stolen and sold by someone else.  Many professional screenwriters will tell you that they never register their script, instead they let the purchasing studio deal with copyright.

the WGA wont copyright your work, but it will deffinately help arbitrate if there is a conflict

the Library of Congress is where to actually officially copyright your work.


http://www.copyright.gov/

If you are a member of the WGA then you may be able to sell your script for more.  there is a minimum wage so to speak if you are a member, and its $50,000.  So look into it for yourself and decide.

That's correct-  the WGA  actually 'registers' your work, it is not an official 'copyright'.  However for all intents and purposes it offers the same protection.

"Registering your work creates legal evidence for the material that establishes a date for the material's existence. The Writers Guild Intellectual Property Registry, as a neutral third party, can testify for that evidence."

Membership is another matter.  Yes, members of the WGA have negotiated guarantees like many other unions,  these minimums are called 'scale'.  BUT, here's the catch 22...You don't receive WGA benefits (minimums) unless you are a member, and to be a member you must first qualify by selling a full feature screenplay or several teleplays to a WGA signatory (nearly all legitimate industry pros are signatories).  Membership then costs $2,500.

Just to be clear, you do NOT have to be a member to register your work with the WGA,  anyone can submit for protection and any form is acceptable- full screenplay,  treatment, synopsis, outlines....

But isn't WGA registration only good for ten years?  After that, doesn't it dispose of your work?  Copyrighting your work is supposed to permanent.  Selling your rights to a story is the same whether it's registered with WGA or copywritten.


Phil

Do you copyright your work. I'm always scared that someone will snatch my ideas. I know that sounds a bit arrogant in thinking that my ideas are good enought to be ripped off, but i'd like to think that some of my stuff, (not all of it, as a lot of it is crap) is not worthy.

Any thoughts?

You can copyright it through the WGA if you're in America...

Fantastic, how do i contact WGA, or register or whatever i need to do?

wga.org.  The cost is $20 for non-members and it can all be done online or through the mail.  They will send you a certificate of registration in the mail in about a week.  But the material is registered instantly.

Registering it through the copyright office is permanent; the WGA is not.


Phil

No.  But WGA copyright lasts 5 years and you can renew for another 5.

The WGA also assists with arbitration should a dispute arise, don't they? The copyright office only takes the submission and files it.

I think people should worry more about writing quality scripts than worrying about people stealing them, if somebody wants to steal it they'll always find a way.

True, Wesley.  But every writer (I've met) is alway protective... and sometimes a little paranoid that their idea will be stolen.  And in many cases they have a right to be.  People should be more concerned about quality writing... but wanting the security of a copyright (whether the government or union) is a valid concern.

As for arbitration... the WGA only gets involved if you are a member.

As I understand it, a plot cannot be copyrighted. It is the way you execute the plot that is protected. Every year we manage to find almost identically plotted moies, but they are tweaked just differently enough to not infringe on each other. If someone likes an idea, not only will they steal it, but (and this is how I understand it) if they make your idea their own, they can legally do it. They just can't take your verbatim screenplay.

....just cause I feel like scaring everyone today...

Correct.  However... if the plot structure, plot devices... are too similar... or if you can show chain of custody issues... you have a case.  No studio with that kind of baggage attached will touch it.  

But why renew it with the WGA when you can do a one-time permanent registration with the copyright office?


Phil

Hollywood never steals good ideas if they do anyway, have you seen a lot of the crap they produce? They want the same old sequels and the same old predictable crap they've been making for god knows how many years.

Yes, there are good films and yes nobody will see the same the point as I see but the facts dictate the truth.

George here has a genuine shot at giving Hollywood a great film epic times 3 or 4 and a series as well, you can't steal the world he's created even if it wasn't copywritten.

People who write predictable horror scripts and so on and so forth have no reason to be paranoid because the ideas are the same ideas with 1 or 2 new things... That's exciting.

Fine, Wesley.  And we could argue the point to death.  However not only does a copyrighted or registered script give peace of mind... most agents and producers will not touch your material until it is copyrighted.  Why?  Because... say they decided to move forward on your script... they want to be sure YOU will be the one and only author of the material.  Without a copyright you open yourself and the (agent, producer, production company) to liability.

Bottom line: finished screenplays you're looking to shop must be copyrighted or registered with the WGA.  You must retain the registration number.  I'm just talkin' about real-world stuff here.  If you're trying to be a paid, professional screenwriter.. you have to protect your material.

Not that I would depend solely on this, but what about sites like this one?

Are you afforded any measure of protection by having your original work posted here for the whole world to see, definitively dated, with your own name attached to it?

That would strike me as pretty compelling evidence that you wrote the stuff.

Its nice, but not any sort of legal protection.  And, again, it won't be read by any writer or producer without a copyright or wga registration.

I was looking at the process of getting screenplays copyrighted last year, not the WGA/WGC stuff I mean so that it's yours and it costs a lot of money.

More than you'll want to pay especially if you're not made of money like a lot of writers, I think these sites should offer free services.

I was on one of these Canadian film making/writing sites and it was like we need more Canadian film makers, join here for and the amount of money. They don't want any that much if they're going to make you pay hard earned money that you need to pay real bills with is all I'm saying.

A cheeper way to protect yourself (though harder if there is ever a legal challenge) is to mail the script to yourself.  Keep the unopened script with the postmarked date.  If there was ever a challenge you have proof in the unopened script.

I post my serials to my web-sites even though I desperately want them to get produced.  Am I signing my own metaphorical death warrant by doing so?  (Both serials have connections, so they're one big story.)  Writing the story has been hard work, and I'd hate to prevent people from enjoying the story by taking it off-line and pitching it conventionally to people who probably wouldn't listen to me anyway since, even though the scripts are amazing, I still haven't figured out a way to boil the CONCEPT down into one or two sentences.  Although I've researched vigorously to write the scripts, I have no degree in anything, so I don't know how to sell a studio on the idea that I was the right person to write this project, which I was, and am.  I'm good at writing in the anime genre, but I wouldn't know where to begin trying to sell scripts that are written in that genre.  The cartoon network's block called ADULT SWIM played some anime, yet I composed an online pitch for their head producer -- a guy with the last name Weidenfeld -- and he actually looked it over, but then he replied that they only produce comedy.  A strange reply since my epic stories always lead to punchlines.  He also briefly skimmed the first script, saw one of the few action scenes in the entire series, and he said that they don't produce action shows.  His replies are ironic especially because DOZENS of people who've actually read some of my episodes have told me it'd be perfect for ADULT SWIM.  I sent a similar online pitch to CBC, and a guy said they'd get back to me in a week.  But that was months ago.  I can't do offline pitching because that'd require that I have a printer, paper, and ink, whereas getting those things would require that I have a job, whereas jobs HAVE destroyed my writing skills in the past.

How do you use the WGA/WGC to register a series? I've always wondered that and not many people even know.

You can do it 2 ways.

1. Create a "bible" with all the characters names, backgrounds, sets, etc.  Register it.

2. Write a "pilot episode".  Register it.

That's what I did with The Fempiror Chronicles. I have the various scripts and I keep updating them. The Bible contains the plots for everything, the characters for everything, and the rules for everything. I copyrighted that. I'll register the individual ones as I pitch them.

So, a bible that says everything and possibly plots for the full series? How long can it be though, can it be about 50 pages if that's how long it has to be haha.

What about placing the episodes together into a large script and copyright that as a whole or will they eventually catch on to what you're doing or would they even care?

A Series Bible generally has the rules of the universe and its characters and their limitations. It has who might do what, who would never meet, who might and might not get along. What could happen, what could never happen. Mine has all the mythology, species characteristics, language, rules, timeline, ages of the characters during the various parts, when they were born, when they will die, what they do during any given part, 4 screenplay plots, and some general stuff for the series I haven't completed yet. Try to give everything necessary for someone else to write an episode of your show and never have to ask you anything...theoretically.

Will they register it even if it is just a whole bunch of random pages about all the things you said and so on and so forth or do they even look at what they register?

I honestly don't know. I figure it's probably just a case of "Sure, we'll take your money." Whoever's random pages has the oldest date wins the prize. I gave my random pages a table of contents, though, since for all intents and purposes, that's all it is.

The guild here in Canada has a disclaimer that says "we will not protect your work if it comes to that." Something along those lines so I guess they hate us here ha-ha.

But I guess if agents wont touch you unless you have something along those lines that's fine, but copyrighting is out of the question because I cannot figure that out from the CIPO's website and my friends telling me you need a lawyer and who knows anymore.

What if someone read the series bible, entered an episode, and gave the characters "spoilers"?  That's what episode 18 of my series BANANA CHAN is about.  A girl named Cara read the "Banana Chan Series Bible" and she goes into episode 18, to arm the characters with info in order to prevent episodic problems from arising in their future.  I won't tell you if her plan worked, but I will tell you that episodes have been MUCH MORE fun to write after scrapping the original "bible"!

Alan, that is hilarious! What a great imagination.

I've heard you can have your work sent to you and its the cheap way to copyright (I think) any ideas??

From TheProducer a few posts back.

Quoted Text A cheeper way to protect yourself (though harder if there is ever a legal challenge) is to mail the script to yourself.  Keep the unopened script with the postmarked date.  If there was ever a challenge you have proof in the unopened script.

The problem, I hear, comes from the purported ability to steam open the envelope and revise its contents. That's one reason it is harder to protect yourself this way. Better to register or copyright.

What if you leave it at the post office? That way nobody touches it until you need it.

Ok let's say i write a script and after mutiple drafts i have the best  one copyrighted, ok? now let's say i go back to the script 6 months later and i change some things around,dialouge mostly and then i fix anything i might have missed when writing this draft, do i then have to have it re-copyrighted? i ask so that  if i ever get anything done i don't have to keep dishing out money to have it re-copyrighted over and over again in the event i change it.

While it's not necessary, the more changes you make the better off you'd be in re-copyrighting it.  A little dialogue, I wouldn't worry about.  Changing scenes and story around is another matter.

And, for everyone else, the one week game will start on October 14th.  Click here to learn more.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe While it's not necessary, the more changes you make the better off you'd be in re-copyrighting it.  A little dialogue, I wouldn't worry about.  Changing scenes and story around is another matter. And, for everyone else, the one week game will start on October 14th.  Click here to learn more. Phil

so unless it is a significant  change i don't have to re-copyright, cool, thanks dude.

Pretty much.

If you decided to extend a scene at a coffee shop between two characters, you probably don't have to.  If you change change the identity the killer and his motivation, then you should re-copyright.

YMMV.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe YMMV. Phil

what is YMMV?

and since I'm here i got another question and no use making a new thread because it would just be stupid and spam like.

I want to re-write a scene for my script that is from another movie (in this case from "Monty Python and the holy grail") but i don't want people to read it and think ALERT,RIP OFF! i want them to find it funny as a whole new experience, because it diffrent from the first, how can i do this and avoid people thinking rip off?

The first thought is "don't do it," but then again a lot of stuff is siilar to what has gone before. If the scene is a blatant rip-off, then only those familiar with the movie would really care and if your movie is aimed ata different audience entirely, then no one will care, and for the most part, not a whole lot of people watche movies younger than they are, so 3/4 of your audience won't even have seen whatever movie you ripped off, so again, they won't care.

However, if you have a fresh angle on something old, then you didn't rip anything off; you wrote a story. Don't concern yourself with whether or not you ripped something off. If the characters, scene, situation, and dialogue are different, no worries.

i have 2 more qustions and insted of make another thread i'll use this one.


Q 1: Pen/stage names, now i can i tradmark a name i wish to use as my pen name/stage name so that it can olny be used by me? and can this be done at all?

Q 2: how would i copyright a story that uses copyrighted character, if you can at all?

Just credit your scripts with that pen name. I mean, its prety much the same as putting in you're normal name except its different, and you don't hafta copyright your norma l name, right?

YMMV = Your mileage may vary.

Don't copy another scene.  Write your own.

Don't worry about a pen name yet.  Wait until someone is interested in your work.

You can't copyright someone else's character.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe YMMV = Your mileage may vary. Don't copy another scene.  Write your own. Don't worry about a pen name yet.  Wait until someone is interested in your work. You can't copyright someone else's character. Phil

ah,thats what that means.

it's not copying, it taking a scene and re-doing it to be about something diffrent as opposed to what it was about,while the dialoge is changed a bit to reflect this.

ok about the pen name.

i know that, but how can i copyright a story that uses those characters. this way i could submit the script to the studio without fear of my story get stolen to suit there needs.?

Quoted from theprodigalson it's not copying, it taking a scene and re-doing it to be about something diffrent as opposed to what it was about,while the dialoge is changed a bit to reflect this.

You lost me.  I'd have to see what you're writing.

Quoted from theprodigalson i know that, but how can i copyright a story that uses those characters. this way i could submit the script to the studio without fear of my story get stolen to suit there needs.?

A copyright attorney could better answer this, but I would just copyright.  If the copyright holds, there you go.  If it doesn't, you would still have some copyright control over your original ideas.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe You lost me.  I'd have to see what you're writing. A copyright attorney could better answer this, but I would just copyright.  If the copyright holds, there you go.  If it doesn't, you would still have some copyright control over your original ideas. Phil

well here is part of  the monty python sence in which i refer to.

Quoted Text   OLD WOMAN       Order, eh -- who does he think he is?                               ARTHUR       I am your king!                               OLD WOMAN       Well, I didn't vote for you.                               ARTHUR       You don't vote for kings.                               OLD WOMAN       Well, how did you become king, then?                               ARTHUR       The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite,       held Excalibur aloft from the bosom of the water to signify by       Divine Providence ...  that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur ...       That is why I am your king!

and my take would be comething like this (note this is not the sence i intend to write it's just for show)

Quoted Text EXT. Outside-Noon Actions put here.                                    WOMAN                       who do you think you are?                               Main Character       I am your (insert title of character)!                                WOMAN       Well, I didn't vote for you.                               Main Character       You don't vote for (insert title of character).                                WOMAN       Well, how did you become (insert title of character), then?

sorry for such a crude example, but do you see were im going with this?

it will make sense once i get the screenplay going and submit it for reading. i hope so anyways.


                             

Quoted from dogglebe A copyright attorney could better answer this, but I would just copyright.  If the copyright holds, there you go.  If it doesn't, you would still have some copyright control over your original ideas. Phil

I pretty much got my answer when reading the advice on Bruce Campbells website.

Quoted Text What do you do with your fantastically well-written script once it's completed and protected? Well, if you've written a brilliant "Hercules" episode, or "Evil Dead IV," you might as well wallpaper your bathroom with it. There are all kinds of rights issue involved in sequels and active television shows. These companies will not only NOT read it, they won't even acknowledge they ever got it. Why? It's either because of a rights issue or the basic fact that they already pay a lot of dough for a staff of writers or, most commonly, because most companies will simply not accept "unsolicited" scripts. This means that your script has no "representative," as in AGENT, MANAGER or LAWYER to act as a go-between. This part of the business stinks, but ya gotta deal with it somehow. So, you can either solicit Agents (and I'm not gonna do the research for you -- there are heaps of books, directories, etc. that you can get your grubby little paws on) or you can become a Producer yourself and do an "end run." It's a tough route, but c'mon folks, it's America -- use it to your advantage.

Man is there anything Bruce Campbell cannot  do? so i'll still write the script,submit it here if i like it and maybe be lucky enough that New Line stumbles across it,even if i can't copyright the story.

I have a question about the safety of copyright. What would prevent person X to visit this site, and when he sees a script he really likes by person Y, copy-paste it and send it to a producer as his own? It seems to me that person Y wouldn't really know about the plaigarism until it would be too late, and the only evidence he might have that the work was originally his- this is assuming he ever found out about the trickery- would be that he can claim to have posted under the internet alias, which is far from proof. Now, I have the feeling I'm not the first who thought of this, and that there is a safeguard against this. My question: if so, what is it?

its called copy righting your work.

If you do so person Y goes to jail.

Actually person X goes to jail as person Y would be the writer ha-ha

Yeah you could do that or you could just do what most do, never post the best copy. Post unpolished drafts.

Well, someone actually stealing a screenplay is quite rare primarily because they don't know the story very well, couldn't pitch it very well, and it's not worth the potential legal headaches, not to mention the possibility of the work being copyrighted. Can anything stop anyone from stealing from this site? No. Absolutely nothing. Will a posting date on this site help any case? Probably not. I don't know if an internet time stamp is admissable. Should be, I think, but not certain.

If you are afraid of someone stealing your work, spend the $30 to copyright it, or the $20 to register it with the WGA. If a producer wants to read it, you'll have to do that anyway. Generally, word for word plagiarism is not a huge threat.

As for posting unpolished drafts, I find that to be self-defeating since the only reason I post is to get feedback, and if I've already fixed the problems everyone comments on, then I'm not getting any help at all by posting it. While I want people to like what I write, I would rather be told how bad certain sections suck, than be told it all rocks.

At the risk of sounding like an ass, don't people already leave reviews that say it rocks? You could post an early draft if people aren't even going to give you reason why it rocks.

Why do you think I have nothing up anymore? It's a pointless waste of time and that's a shame because I'd really love to be posting more work.

Anyway before I say things I already said I just wanted to leave you with the following...

If sites like this could guarentee protection for scripts posted would that make you more inclined to actually attempt to write great screenplays? If the answer to that question is yes than maybe we should look into the subject and see if you can get legal a bill passed into law that says an administrator or whatever they call guys who own websites like Don can be used as proof as to who wrote it.

And if not stop bitching about it and spend the 30 bucks.

While some people do leave simple reviews that just stroke the ego, there are a fair amount of people (myself included) who review completely and honestly. I'm sorry that over the years, some of the people who have come and gone have left a bitter taste in your mouth over these things, but there will always be those. There will also always be those who are willing to read and review to give you an honest idea of where you stand.

I never know if anyone will read what I've written, but I'll post it anyway because it takes no time to post it and no money to leave it. Basically, posting a script on here is a win for me, and the only conceivable way to lose is in the off chance that someone somehow steals my script.

Besides, my ultimate goal in life is not to be the most read person on this site. It is to be produced. And whether anyone reads my work or not, I will send queries out to producers or agents and see if they want to read it. One of them said yes once. Another wants me to rework the story. I have two others who plan on filming in 2006 (both low budget independants who think what I've written for them is festival worthy material). Do I know if they will actually make them or not? No. Do I still have some good scripts I can pitch elsewhere? Yes.

If someone has a look at my stuff and gives me a suggestion to make it better, I'll take it with thanks. Will my world come to an end if no one looks at it ever again? No.

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience on here, and I'm sorry you're cynical over it. But you're talking about a segment of people who don't last on here. You're talking about people who come and get pissed off and leave. I don't care if they read or not. I'm not interest in their opinions. I'm not interested in teaching them anything. But those who want to learn, who want to read, who want to know what can be done right occasionally...those are the ones that will figure out something that works, and their reviews will go from "it rocks" to "it rocks because..." Give them time.

This kinda goes with the thread, but if one were to title their work "Star Wars Kid," could that be in violation of copyright laws?

Quoted from Magius I have a question about the safety of copyright. What would prevent person X to visit this site, and when he sees a script he really likes by person Y, copy-paste it and send it to a producer as his own? It seems to me that person Y wouldn't really know about the plaigarism until it would be too late, and the only evidence he might have that the work was originally his- this is assuming he ever found out about the trickery- would be that he can claim to have posted under the internet alias, which is far from proof. Now, I have the feeling I'm not the first who thought of this, and that there is a safeguard against this. My question: if so, what is it?

Copyright your work.  If someone produces yourv work, you can sue the supposed write and the studio who produces it.  


Phil

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Yeah you could do that or you could just do what most do, never post the best copy. Post unpolished drafts.

The problem with this is that a plagerer might make changes in the scripts.  Very possibly the same changes you would've made if you wrote a polished version.  If this happened, you would have less of an arguement in court as the scripys would be different.


Phil

All I'm saying is look at all the mistakes in the scripts posted and think if they are really giving it an effort or rushing to get it up so people will read it.

Frankly I'm not in it for the money so copyrights are not for me. People who aren't willing to pay shouldn't bitch though because they are cheap and cheap isn't in a Hollywood book. The words sellout, whore and George Lucas are though.

Quoted from greg This kinda goes with the thread, but if one were to title their work "Star Wars Kid," could that be in violation of copyright laws?

You can't copyright a title, but I'm pretty sure "Star Wars" is trademarked, which is a whole other ball of wax.

Unless Lucas was the first person to use the phrase 'star wars,' he probably doesn't have any legal control over it.  This, however, wouldn't stop him from suing you just to put you out of business.  This happens all the time in the brewing business.


Phil

Ahhh, another copyright related question.

As I'm pondering a title change for my current "Cobb Hill Massacres," I've come to one title in particular which I would consider, but it's also the title of a song.  "The Hands that Built America" was the Academy nominated song by U2 and I'm looking to find out if there are restrictions on giving films the same titles as songs.  

Thanks

I don't think titles can be copyrighted.  As long as you don't steal the actual work of another piece or writing, you should be fine.

I think we have discussed this before but did you know about the song before you thought of the change?

Song, Film, TV Show, Book it's all fair game because you cannot copyright titles, you can only copyright the work itself and even that is sketchy as a lot of films bare shocking resemblances to other films.

Originality is dead in film so why should titles be any different?

Along the same lines, I have read about wrestlers getting a trademark on their names and logos so... The lines may be a bit blurred at the end of the day. (Most famous case being World Wildlife Foundation (WWF) forcing then World Wrestling Federation to change because people were getting confused about which is which.

Therefore, if you call a film The Shark Boy that wrestler may come after you but "The Hands that Built America" is perfectly fine in my books because it is neither a name nor a logo for the group or any corporation.

(If people went crazy copyrighting everything every word in the dictionary would be owned by someone and we'd have to pay money for every word in our screenplays. The world isn't that pathetic, lets party ;) ;) ;) )

let me put things in perspective for you:

http://www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=payback

Arguably there would be marketing problem though. When I think "The Hands That Built America" I think U2. When I think "Payback" I don't relate to any particular film. And, perhaps, producers will think the same... May be.

Alright thanks guys.  Your responses are very much appreciated though I have no idea what the reference to Payback is about.

my point was that there are MANY movies named Payback. as long as you don't try to capatilize on the other movie's title then no one cares what you call your movie.

We did discuss this before, when I was thinking of a new title for my horror/action script.

I ended up using Disposable Heroes even though it's the title of a Metallica song, because supposedly titles cannot be copyrighted.  The thread is probably still in the WIP section somewhere under Project AWOL.

Forgive me for butting in this thread but my question would be this:

Why borrow a title that has already been used?

Surely you can think of a title all on your own?

Having an original title will make your work that much more original..

I see your argument for using a particular title but what I'm saying there is and probably more ways of saying the same thing. An alternative that would communicate the same thing..

Sometimes your title comes from your work and lends to the title and in reverse the title says what the work is..

I appreciate titles which have multiple meanings or that also possess a subtext..

Sometimes a title can pop into your head and sometimes you have to have a working title until after your reading and research one stares you in the face..

You also have to be careful with titles because if you try and pass your work off by using a title that suggests a relationship to another then this can be seen as "passing off" and lawyers make their clients a large wedge of cash in these litigation battles..

There's a good article on copyright at Wikipedia and stuff we should all understand and be aware of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

Like always Kevan you have some good insight but I ask you what is an original title if you have to worry about song titles when choosing a title. It's almost harder to name a script these days than it is to write one.

The point to titling anything is to give your work a title that best describes it and will resonate with your audience. So if you came up with a title first and then realized someone else used it somewhere else, then who cares? It still works for your script, since you didn't necessarily "borrow" it. If I ite something without a title, I always go through the script looking at the dialogue to see if there's a good title in there somewhere to really tie it in.

I found out last year that a few films and tv shows that are so obscure they don't even have a rating or discussion on IMDB have the same title.

I don't want to change it now because it alienates the people who know what it is. In Don We Trust was a last minute title change and look what that did to me, nobody even knew what it was for a week or two because everybody knew it under another name.

That's why I'm curious because as well as the films it's also the name of about 8 songs that I know of. Since the title is general about what they want out of life, these songs also go along the same lines of what they want out of life.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley I don't want to change it now because it alienates the people who know what it is. In Don We Trust was a last minute title change and look what that did to me, nobody even knew what it was for a week or two because everybody knew it under another name...it's also the name of about 8 songs that I know of.

If it helps, I don't even remember your original title...

If I write an animated movie, and I want to retain the copyrights to the characters, how would I go about doing that? I'm also working on writing novels, and I know that I own the copyrights to my characters in my novels. Is this the same way with scripts?

I'm thinking if I can't retain the copyrights to my animated characters in my scripts, then I'll just stick to writing novels.

Thank you for any info...

File it with the copyright office.  The same rules apply to live-action movies as with animations.


Phil

You own the rights to whatever you create and only lose them if you sell those rights as part of a deal. You can request to retain the rights in a contract, but who knows how that would work, since studios tend to buy the whole thing. If you write and publish a novel of it first, though, you'll always own the rights since the studio would only buy the rights to the screenplay.

Quoted Text I think we have discussed this before but did you know about the song before you thought of the change? Song, Film, TV Show, Book it's all fair game because you cannot copyright titles, you can only copyright the work itself and even that is sketchy as a lot of films bare shocking resemblances to other films. Originality is dead in film so why should titles be any different? Along the same lines, I have read about wrestlers getting a trademark on their names and logos so... The lines may be a bit blurred at the end of the day. (Most famous case being World Wildlife Foundation (WWF) forcing then World Wrestling Federation to change because people were getting confused about which is which. Therefore, if you call a film The Shark Boy that wrestler may come after you but "The Hands that Built America" is perfectly fine in my books because it is neither a name nor a logo for the group or any corporation. (If people went crazy copyrighting everything every word in the dictionary would be owned by someone and we'd have to pay money for every word in our screenplays. The world isn't that pathetic, lets party    )

so you are telling me that i can use any title from anything?

Actually, I'm quite certain titles can be copywrited.  Quote from the back of the Max Payne video game box (don't have a movie on hand):  "Max Payne and the Max Payne logo are trademarks of Remedy entertainment Ltd."

So if you name a movie "Max Payne", even if it's not about the same guy, I think it's illegal.  This makes sense; you will get money from using their name even if your intentions are pure.

A further assumption would be that it's the people who copywrite things that decide if something can be copywrited or not.  For instance, if they made a movie called "coffee", I doubt anyone would let them copywrite it.

Max Payne probably can't be copyrighted because what if that was your name and you can't use it in the future for an autobiography? Seems like if somebody let them copyright a name people would go crazy and take in all names available.

I think it means the game itself and logo.

In all honesty, whether a title is copywrited is the last thing you need to worry about. If it fits with your vision of the script, go with it. All that matters is what happens after the title page.

Max Payne is a trademark, meaning they've protected that name for a period of time. If you ever check out the back of a Nightmare of Elm Street DVD, you'll find the title and Freddy Krueger are also trademarked. When something is trademarked it cannot be used, and that's how you can protect a title. It can't be copyrighted, but it can be trademarked.

If you see a little TM or R with a circle, the title is off limits. Star Wars and all its subtitles are another prime example. So if you write a sci-fi flick where evil clones attack, you can't call it Attack of the Clones...the title is trademarked property of Lucasfilm for a period of time. It expires before a copyright does, but I forget the period of time. This is similar to product names where no one can name their cola Pepsi.

I was going to copyright a script I wrote and I was going to do so through Writers Guild Of America, but at the end of the process where they ask you about your address and phone number, they ask you for your social security number. I am always leery about putting my personal info on the internet. Has anyone else done that, or would anyone advise against it?

My suggestion is that if you are just writing a script to post on here in the unproduced section, you shouldn't give out any personal information, but just the basics (email, copyright). But if you were to send it to a director, you'd probably need to put your phone number, address, etc. so they can contact you. I don't know about the social security number thing though.

Sean

If you can't trust the WGA, my friend, who can you trust?

It's not a problem.  I've done it.  No problems so far.  It's a secure site, you don't have to worry about all that piracy BS.  

Register your script with the US Copyright Office.  It costs roughly the same and it lasts longer.


Phil

Quoted from guyjackson If you can't trust the WGA, my friend, who can you trust? It's not a problem.  I've done it.  No problems so far.  It's a secure site, you don't have to worry about all that piracy BS.

Ditto.  I've copyrighted ten various drafts of various screenplays via the WGA website and nobody else is out there claiming to be me (can't say I blame 'em) so I think your SSN's safe with the Writer's Guild.
;)

I've done it as well. Don't put your SSN on your cover page, but for the WGA, it'll help if a dispute ever comes up. It conclusively proves it was you and not another guy with a similar name.

I'm afraid that someone would steal my idea of I posted it. Anyone with an internet connection can take your idea.

How are you guys so confident to present your uncopyrighted stories?

That's why we don't present a uncopyrighted script. We copyright them first. Or at least I copyright my features.

And this is the wrong spot for this.

-Chris

Many people do copyright their work.  Its a good idea and I dont think it's extremely costly.  Some, however, such as I, are just confident that their work will not be stolen.

Okay, thanks. Sorry about the wrong spot!

I don't think ideas can be copyrighted.

Even if they could, there can still be endless renditions of that idea.

True, but scripts can be copyrighted, meaning that your work is copyrighted.

I copy rite everything I do... but I'm not afraid of theft in the least. Why? People have more varied imaginations and opinions of certain material than you could ever have... Why, by & large, should we live in fear that our work is the one being targeted?

It's like... Why sell a movie to 1 person when you could sell it to a million people?

Same thing with this site.

Why only let a few people read your work when you have the option of letting thousands read your work?  Now they might and they might not... that's about the only gamble you're gonna be taking, in all honesty.

Your idea isn't as mind blowing as you might think, trust me.  I think that I write the best horror stuff you've ever seen or read... I haven't been ripped off yet. You know why? Cause my stuff probably isn't as good as "I" think it is... My ego allows me to be this way but in all honesty, other people have better, more varied ideas, I'm sure... I still stick to my guns until I see a better script, though.

I know scripts can be copyrighted, but just an idea is different.

(I have patented and copyrighted things before)

Well, I take back the part about giving too many people here credit in not taking ideas... I've seen too many of you people take SCREAM, SAW, HOSTEL, TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE & FRIDAY THE 13th and literally steal it and try and make it your story... You fail miserably at it, by the way, but you still do it.

The only thing people like Brea, Phil, Greg, Burt, Wes, Freak and a few others have going for them is that the people who'd actually steal their work wouldn't know the 1st thing about making a decent script out of it anyways... And by the time they did get one done it'd be so shot thru the ass that you'd never know it was your idea to begin with.

Quoted from Balt The only thing people like Brea, Phil, Greg, Burt, Wes, Freak and a few others have going for them is that the people who'd actually steal their work wouldn't know the 1st thing about making a decent script out of it anyways... And by the time they did get one done it'd be so shot thru the ass that you'd never know it was your idea to begin with.

I have to agree with Baltis here, if somebody steals your work for Hollywood by the time it is made it'll be so different you'll never know it was yours.

COPYRIGHT your work or don't, you ruin any reads you might get by starting these types of threads because they make you seem like someone who thinks they're so great. (Write some shorts)

Hollywood just isn't interested in stealing scripts. This is why they won't accept unsolicited work; they don't want to take the chance (no matter how slim) that they have someone developing an idea remarkably similar to yours. Ideas CANNOT be copyrighted. This means if you present an idea in the WIP section, anyone can legally take it and write a script based on it. You can't do a thing about it because the only thing you, as a writer, can copyright is your finished work, plot, and characters as they appear in your script.

Let's say I like your script to the point that I want it. Could I pull it off legally? The answer here is yes. Even if you copyright your script, the idea the script is based on is still free and clear for anyone. This means I could take your script, strip it to a treatment, rename and redefine the characters, and rewrite it from that treatment, and as long as it doesn't EXACTLY match yours, I'm legal.

Now Hollywood is not interested in doing this. Why? Because why the hell would they want to waste their time stripping down your script and paying a WGA writer $50,000 to rewrite the thing if they can buy your finished version for less than half that and pay Mr. WGA for rewrites. It's just not a cost-effective thing to do.

So, from Hollywood, your scripts are safe. If you're worried about other writers stealing it, make sure it is copyrighted and YOUR script is safe. But you might also look at it this way, any writer who wants to steal your script, probably won't be able to rewrite it anyway, and it sure as hell won't sell to anyone because they won't understand.

My determination: it'll be okay.

I'll register my feature length scripts before sending them out, letting people read them or posting them on the internet. For my shorts, I don't care - I'll post them when I'm done.

I've never heard of a story where a non-produced writer has had his/her story stolen and made by a Hollywood production company. Even the bogus companies out there are not stupid enough to steal your idea and use it. The bogus production companies out there are setup to steal your money more than steal your idea (ie. they will ask for money from you for re-writes or suggest proof readers etc..etc..).

You can't really copywright an idea, but I believe you can copywright a synopsis. So if you are REALLY worried, you can write a 1-page synopsis and register it. If it lets you sleep better at night.

Quoted from George Willson Hollywood just isn't interested in stealing scripts. This is why they won't accept unsolicited work; they don't want to take the chance (no matter how slim) that they have someone developing an idea remarkably similar to yours. Ideas CANNOT be copyrighted. This means if you present an idea in the WIP section, anyone can legally take it and write a script based on it. You can't do a thing about it because the only thing you, as a writer, can copyright is your finished work, plot, and characters as they appear in your script. Let's say I like your script to the point that I want it. Could I pull it off legally? The answer here is yes. Even if you copyright your script, the idea the script is based on is still free and clear for anyone. This means I could take your script, strip it to a treatment, rename and redefine the characters, and rewrite it from that treatment, and as long as it doesn't EXACTLY match yours, I'm legal. Now Hollywood is not interested in doing this. Why? Because why the hell would they want to waste their time stripping down your script and paying a WGA writer $50,000 to rewrite the thing if they can buy your finished version for less than half that and pay Mr. WGA for rewrites. It's just not a cost-effective thing to do. So, from Hollywood, your scripts are safe. If you're worried about other writers stealing it, make sure it is copyrighted and YOUR script is safe. But you might also look at it this way, any writer who wants to steal your script, probably won't be able to rewrite it anyway, and it sure as hell won't sell to anyone because they won't understand. My determination: it'll be okay.

Not to mention, it's easier and less expensive to buy your script for fifty or a hundred grand than it is to steal it, spend millions getting it made and then have to give it all to you in the lawsuit.

As many of you might well know... I have written over 73 short stories now. Basically all under the central story of "WHAT A LONG STRANGE TRIP IT'S BEEN"

Now, I've copyrighted a good deal of these as standard scripts... Just one by one as I saw fit for me to do so... Not all of them, however.

What I'm asking is this.

Can I log all 73 short scripts of mine under the name "WHAT A LONG STRANGE TRIP IT's BEEN" keeping the individual names of each and the scripts themselves, whole... But log them all as 1 script, called "WHAT A LONG STRANGE TRIP IT'S BEEN"?

Basically, like Stephan Kings "NIGHTMARES & DREAMSCAPES" was a collection of his short works... I know he probably copyrighted them all, but he also had to copyright the name of the book they were placed in aswell.

So, could I "in theory" copyright all of my short screenplay material (that is worlds better than anything I've ever read or seen, mind you) under one name?

Thanks for your help and all that... I guess.

You can copyright everything as a collective, it's just a matter of putting it all into one file and uploading it to WGA or whoever you use for your copyrights.

Given an average length of 25 pages per short, you're looking at just over 1800 pages.

Best make it a PDF. :)

For a U.S. Copyright registration with the U.S. Copyright Office at the Library of Congress:

Yes, you can copyright them as a collection under one title. I believe that the rule is that it must have one unified title.

On the application,  where it asks “NATURE OF THIS WORK,” I would state that it was a collection of short scripts.

Since they were written over a span of time, I assume they were not all written in the same year. You cannot put more than one year on the form. You’ll have to put the year the collection was completed.

But don’t take my word for it:

If you call the number (202) 707-3000, you can request Form PA, Package 119, which is for screenplays, and they will send you the first package for free (at least they did years ago when I started). You can photocopy the application forms and never have to contact them again. The package will have instructions about filling out the form and answer all your questions.

Hope this helps.

My shorts are copywritten as a collection.


Phil

I have registered all the current Fempiror Chronicles scripts as a "series" under a single heading. One 800 page file.

I saw a movie the other day and I thought it really stank but I thought the story idea was cool. I've been trying to think of a cool idea and think I could do something cool with this one. I'm just wondering how legal that is. Thanx

What movie?

Sean

Well, I don't want to give it away right now. Call me paranoid and stuff.

Quoted from jimmywins Well, I don't want to give it away right now. Call me paranoid and stuff.

I don't think you need to be all that worried, since even though the movie YOU saw was the inspiration for what you're writing, you wouldn't be giving away the actual material of what you are writing, you know?

But I know I've been inspired by a lot of movies, and basically just think of a new take on it. As long as it's not exactly the same, and you have new characters and a new take on it. Like I have a story about a school shooting, and there are already the movies "Bang Bang You're Dead", "Homeroom", and "Elephant" that I've seen about the same thing, but mine is still different, you know. It depends on how you play it.

Unless you're talking about just an all out remake, in which case I think you could still write it and post it, I think if you sold it though, that's where all the legal stuff would come in. I'm not a lawyer though, so I don't know if that's right or wrong, but just how I think it would work.

I've answered this one here and there over time, but here goes.

You can't copyright an idea. Only the execution of that idea in the form of a novel, script, whatever. Here's the snag, though. If you use someone's else's idea, you risk losing originality because someone might recall it being done before. If someone decided to make a movie about a mob boss and his family, everyone would scream Godfather. Now neither Mario Puzo nor Francis Ford Coppola nor Zoetrope could sue over this mob boss film as long as the script and plot are completely different, but the idea would still be there.

If you're shooting for some unknown flick that was on MST3K one night, I doubt anyone will care. But the only thing you can legally lift is the idea. And I'll not that you do so at your own risk. Ideally, you just come up with your own idea, but if you haven't done much, it might make for a good exercise to get your chops going.

My case in point for all this is 1998: Armageddon and Deep Impact. Exactly the same idea with different takes on it. Our writing exercises are about the same thing as well.

Does it cost money to register your script in WGA?

go to http://www.wgawregistry.org/webrss/ and all your questions will be answered.  

Don

just wondering. I sometimes put the word "copyright (c) Yudhianto B - 2007". Is that okay?

also, I had some discussion before about copyright violation probability in record industry, and some ppl said that when we make our work public, we automaticly gain the copyright. so they advice that before making any demo (song), publish the song to internet first. use the date of posting as point of refference that you publish the work before anybody else do.

my Q is, is that really true? or is it true in my country, but not other country/internationaly??

Which country are you from? Each country has different laws.  Generally the case is that as soon as you write it you own the copyright, however the problem is proving it!

Think about it logically, if you are in court claiming someone has stolen your work, what weight of evidence do you need to prove the work is in fact yours?

An internet site is something, especially if you can get character witnesses saying that they read it on a certain date, however it is hardly concrete evidence as anything on a computer system can be hacked or amended.

That is why people like to register at the WGA etc as it is an objective and legally enforced office.

I'm from Indonesia. I dont really know what the laws in here actually.

I see, so basicly it is alright to put the word "copyright (c) Yudhianto B - 2007". RIgth. but proving it is a different matter

You should see about registering your work.  If you can't do it where you are, you can do it in the United States (I think).  Just writing 'copyright 2007' carries very little weight in court.  What would stop someone from taking your script and putting 'copyright 2004' on it?


Phil

well, of course no one. I only want to clarify that my habbits is oukay to do.

Keep in mind that registering it won't guarantee no one will take it.  A script of mine that will soon be produced was produced without my permission and splashed all over Youtube and Myspace.  I learned of another person this morning who posted it.

And then there's the former Simplyscripts guys who take your scripts and renames them, giving themselves credit as the authors.  If your work isn't registered, you'll have trouble proving it's yours.


Phil